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piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Freakus posted:

Wind is $10/MW. Solar is something like $7.5/MW. The real question is: why would you build coal, oil, or nuclear plants?

Building all the wind turbines to power your city takes a ton of space and creates a ton of nose pollution, nuclear power is one plant which creates a lot less noise and takes a smaller portion of space.

Edit: I'm pretty sure nuclear is unlocked before solar so if you aren't a dirty cheater then you'll be able to build nuclear before solar is an option. Also they're all so cost effective that it doesn't tally matter, and nuclear is far cooler.

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piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Baronjutter posted:

The 50% crime unlock is loving hard to get. I read some guides but I just can't quite get it. Anyone manage this? Any tips?

If you want to cheese it you can just get the GTA map on the workshop and run it, that got me a few of those instantly.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Black Griffon posted:

The problem with living in a relatively big Norwegian city is that a relatively big Norwegian city is a tiny, tiny city. It's also old, and based on tunnels and weird decisions. I'm getting some inspiration watching the road during my commute, but there's not much. Take a gander:
https://www.google.com/maps/@60.3862248,5.3272851,5849m/data=!3m1!1e3

I might try to replicate the intersection in the middle of the map. It could be fun.

I would like to know the world where this is qualified as a city.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Koesj posted:

It the cut-off is indeed 280k then there are only four cities in my country of 16 million :confused:

Sounds about right, y'all livin' in some real sparse places.

In Southern Ontario there are 8 municipalities with more than 280k people, including one (Toronto) that's really like 4 suburb cities put together with one big downtown core.

And even then 5 of those cities are what I would consider small.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Black Griffon posted:

I mean, I'd love to get a big city going here, but our country is basically a map where someone had an epileptic seizure while using the noise tool. There's not a whole lot of real estate.

Just not trying hard enough, blow up some of those mountains, move the land in to the water, boom now you have reclaimed land to fill with condos.

You're welcome.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



ShootaBoy posted:

I really just want a Chicago style elevated rail.

I want Wuppertal style hanging monorails.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



piratepilates posted:

I want Wuppertal style hanging monorails.

Seriously look at how rad this is:

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



ToastyPotato posted:

That is loving terrifying. I mean it looks cool, but it is terrifying.


From pictures, the Chicago Els look exactly like NYC elevated trains, so I assume they are just as loud. If you lived right next to a stop there is literally no way in hell that you do not have hearing loss. There was a recent news story about one stop in Queens that has a school right next to it, and the teachers have to stop teaching every time a train passes because it is that loud. My friend lived around the corner and it was impossible to watch TV, listen to music, or talk if the windows were open and a train passed. There is one part in the Bronx where the train comes within inches of a building on a turn.

It's in Germany though so it's probably perfect.

Switzerland also has really cool looking transit, stuff like trams going over old bridges over picturesque rivers.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



VostokProgram posted:

Is it possible to play without the deathcare mechanic? Just turn off the need to transport corpses entirely

Lifecycle Rebalanced Revisited has that as an option now.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Has anyone gotten this weird bug before where like, you'll be trying to setup a bus/tram/metro/train/etc. line between stations, you can start the line at one station, you can't end it at another that's directly connected to it, the path between them isn't showing up when you hover over the station. Checking the line inch by inch, there's no issue, it's all connected. Smoothing out corners, in the train track for example, doesn't work. Destroying and rebuilding the whole railway connecting the stations sometimes works. Destroying and rebuilding the roads (for a bus line) sometimes works.

But if I'm having this issue, save the game, reload with the exact same settings just a few seconds later, the issue is gone and I can connect the line on the exact same portion of track that was just giving me issues (so there's no issue with the connection between the stations, the game just couldn't see it or something).

potentially relevant mods I'm running:
- any road outside connections
- unlimited outside connections
- network extensions 2
- autolinecolor redux
- one-way train tracks (and no, the issue is not that I only had one-way tracks between stations)
- 81 tiles
- fine road anarchy
- real time
- tm:pe stable

on a custom map from the workshop.

Since figuring out that saving and reloading seems to fix it, it's become more annoying than panic inducing. It would be nice to at least know what's causing this to happen.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



I really can't imagine playing without 81 tiles (and I suppose realistic population revisited) anymore.

like I bought the game on release, I remember those days, but having so much free space and big city now makes it hard to remember how we coped.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Saxophone posted:

How does just the base vanilla game hold up? I was getting the itch, but 100+ dollars in DLC to ‘catch up’ feels bleh.

I was going to be the dissenting voice to say it's still fun and you should do it, but sheesh it's $30 for the base game alone, I think it's worth waiting the 3 months and get the better game for only a bit more.

C:S vanilla was a fun albeit cartoony city builder, a lot of the DLC improved on things, and mods made it even better -- but even with the bare minimum good DLCs it would still end up being at least $60.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



A few streamers who have played the previous game will also be streaming it: https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/games/cities-skylines-ii/cities-in-the-sky

ambiguousamphibian has done videos, RTGame has too.

for some reason jschlatt has returned to stream this on his own https://twitch.tv/schlatt

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



OwlFancier posted:

It doesn't really make a difference, you're just building the same thing over and over again, or building the same thing but spread over several regions. It doesn't really change the game any except that you get the zoomed out map view to be full eventually.

Also if you want construction simulator I would recommend workers and resources soviet republic :v:

Which yes makes you extremely averse to renovating or disrupting existing infrastructure because jesus christ is the disruption it causes a nightmare.

SC4's region mode also had neat quirk of not really working well in simulations. The tiles don't actually run when you're not playing in the tile, and when you're playing in a tile, data from the other tiles is just used as a frozen snapshot. To have tiles update you have to go in to each tile and let it run for a few minutes.

The region mode doesn't have any smart logic between tiles when you're in the region view, so there's issues you run in to easily like the eternal commuter loop: https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/72324-help-removing-a-commuter-loop/ , where your workers commute to the next tile for work since its closest, and then when you play in that tile, they go to the next tile because its the fastest connection, then in that tile they're driving to the next tile because its closer, etc., until your city is filled with commuters who never actually go to work, they just drive around your region forever and ever.

Also I don't really like having big cities where the edge of a tile is a hard cutoff to another tile, C:S you're less likely to actually hit the edge of a tile, you're more likely to run in to terrain that contains the spread of the sprawl.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Mrenda posted:

I've never done a "model city" build in CS1. I'd like to give it a try before CS2 comes out. Is there any video that walks through the mods etc you use to be very persnickety about placing stuff?

Once you've given a subscribe to the mods from up above ☝️, you may want to watch some videos from two dollars twenty (or other creators) and try to follow what they're doing each step -- a lot of it comes down to having an idea behind a "scene", setting up roads, and moving things manually to line up, along with adding some props:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV01oPQzJc0

Also give Imperatur a shot, since he does the same kind of thing but in vanilla (with DLC) Skylines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7LBe0rysjk

Goes to show you don't always need tons of mods to get a good result.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



MikeJF posted:

A brief FAQ regarding mods and performance

Biggest thing of note is that Steam Workshop is out, mods will be distributed through Paradox's mod platform, ostensibly so they're universal across different stores and platforms and so they can hook up an in-game mod browser better.

As expected, consoles will have asset mods but not code-modification mods, while PC will have both.

1. Really happy for console users, even if its only asset mods, their lack of workshop mods was a big drag for them (although led a lot of creativity on their part to fill in the gaps with assets)

2. Really hope the CO mod platform is better suited for the game than Steam's. Steam's is such a pain in the rear end at times, and you end up subscribing to hundreds (thousands?) of individual mods with no easy controls on working with your now-vast mod collection. Then an author takes down their mod and everyone's saves break.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Grand Fromage posted:

I'm seeing more people talking about running it fine on like a 1080 without having to turn it to maximum poo poo mode so I have no idea what to think at the moment. Leaning towards the $1 Gamepass option to try it for myself.

I mean....all we have to do is wait 4 days and find out for ourselves. Either it ends up being a huge deal, or a little one, either way, its as simple as enjoying a weekend.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



pointlessone posted:

Holding out for a performance patch before I consider picking this up.

ok

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



MikeJF posted:

Ooo, neat.

(Jeez, only 30 people on the team?)

People on the subreddit all sound like they think the game is from a AAA studio with tons of staff, making a bajillion dollars off of the first game + DLC, but no its a small studio who have only ever made like 4 games ever. C:S1 was a huge leap for the studio, it was a lot more involved than Cities in Motion.

The weird ones are the redditors comparing the launch to like, Cyberpunk 2077, Starfield, etc.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



DrSunshine posted:

Hearing all these reports of people with 4090s getting 10fps and stuff makes me really wonder what kind of machines are the developers using? Are they testing the game on normal computers or are they testing it on very specific, insanely powerful supercomputers?

They probably just turned off the 3 settings dragging down performance like the rest of us. Alternatively maybe they're usually running debug builds and stuff that are slower than what would be released anyway.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



DrSunshine posted:

I'm no software developer, as you can probably tell, so this was an enlightening post, thanks!

There's also the other reality behind it: there's never enough time, there's always more things to polish, and what is the alternative if you run out of time? You either delay (big financial repercussions, publisher isn't going to like it, and as much as fans loudly proclaim they should delay, they'd be just as upset if it was delayed), or you ship and hope to patch later. Every bit of performance optimization comes at the expense of time to polish or implement something else.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Maybe the first post should be updated with resources for C:S2, since its out.

.....namely the performance fixes and beginner tutorial videos, since it's all unrelated C:S1 stuff like recommended mods now.

Doesn't look like it's been updated in 8 years, and Dr. Space Kablooey hasn't posted in here in 7.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Danaru posted:

__really__ wish there was a way to town down chirpr, I generally play on the fastest speed and it's constantly dinging about some dick who thinks the weather is nice

wait a bit and there'll be a mod for it, C:S1 had a good one that cut that poo poo right out.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



barnold posted:

i am trying to build a high density city core but there are zero buildings getting built and every commercial block is complaining about lack of customers. there are a handful of apartment towers but all of them are full on residents when i click into them and yet no new ones are being built. what am i missing with how demand works

also - no intercity train routes? i have built a train station but there is nothing coming from the outside connections. i guess i have to set up a line myself? i am insanely stupid and just realized you have to manually make a line to the edge of the map. lol

HMMM I didn't get the train thing to work, but I was building busses and it said to do an outside connection for a bus, you have to start the line in a stop inside your city, and then click on an outside connection at your city's edge and it'll link up. Probably the same deal with trains, I have to try that tonight.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



FPyat posted:

A user finagled an isometric viewpoint in photo mode and it looks like it would be a great way to play the game.

https://www.reddit.com/gallery/17fzilm

That's what NewCity (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1067860/NewCity/) had going for it for a while, made for a trippy experience.

Good city builder, shame the creator just kinda went AWOL. Open sourced it to the community recently at least.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



New patch dropped: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/patch-notes-for-1-0-11f1-hotfix.1604140/

https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/17gxkrf/patch_notes_for_1011f1_hotfix/

quote:

Changed LOD to be independent of rendering resolution to get more consistent performance with high resolutions
Minor optimization with fog
Depth of field optimizations and tweaks
Global illumination tweaks
Optimized stutters when buildings spawn/level up
Optimized various stutters across all systems
Fixed crash after upgrading wind turbine
Fixed crash when car crashes into still hidden car with trailer
Fixed crash with mesh loading (that happens with low settings mostly)


People on the reddit thread so far seem to say their fps.......doubled after it? 👀

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



CuddleCryptid posted:

Bug report: Trucks will be confused by roads and will continually redirect back to their origin point, requiring several attempts to do a single delivery.

Me, nodding sagely: these developers are a master of their craft.

It is kinda funny seeing some of the complaints about the game.

People complaining that their city of 1000 people doesn't have traffic problems.

Finding it hard to not be losing money in the city, meanwhile every real world city issues tons of debt and is in a constant treadmill of growth.

Demand for single family homes always being too large.

etc.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



CuddleCryptid posted:

This kind of speaks to the issue with splitting up the housing meter because there is always going to be more demand for single family homes, always. People *want* private homes near their workplaces and amenities, no one really wants to be in hyper dense apartments if given a choice. So the bar is always going to be full far after it becomes irrelevant. If we could tax homes by size rather than setting it by income level it could help but if the housing all costs the same then of course everyone wants a house.

The "free time" meter is probably an attempt to settle this by making it so that people who are living in far off suburbs are taking travel time into consideration, but that isn't going to drive down demand, they'll just want to have houses closer to work.

It reminds me of the UI problem the Realistic Population mod in C:S1 ran in to, where the HCI bar was taken from SimCity, but it doesn't really work the same way: https://github.com/algernon-A/Realistic-Population-Revisited/wiki/Impacts-on-demand#general-advice-for-new-players

CS1 had the green (res), blue (com), yellow (ind), but that's not really what they're measuring. The blue was commercial and recreational demand, and people naturally want to drive it to 0, but it was more desirable having excess recreational demand. Instead of spamming more and more malls in an attempt to resolve the demand, you just had to make sure the bar wasn't shooting to 100%.

Same with the yellow, which wasn't really industry, but measuring the unemployment of the city.

There's a similar "issue" with the school system in this, as there was in CS1, where people build high schools and see they're not used, and also build colleges and see no one using them, and get very confused, but only some of your population is going to be eligible for each school tier, since they have to be in the right age range and have prior education to use it. So if you build elementary, high school, and then colleges, you also had to wait (key word) for people to progress through the tiers and be eligible for college education.

One of the big problems with the Cities: Skylines games (inherited from CS1, and made more evident with realism mods), is that the UI is kinda misleading, and also kinda lovely. There's a lot of nuance you have to learn about whats actually going on to make it make sense.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Muscle Tracer posted:

It's still bonkers to me that apparently no other place in the entire world has any education system. How is it that every person moving to my town lacks even an elementary school education??

Not sure in CS2, semi-sure in CS1 that you can get educated immigrants, but probably doesn't happen at the start: https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/sa901j/it_is_100_possible_for_university_educated_cims/

The vibe I'm getting is that you need to make it a desirable place to move to first, and then high value citizens will move there.

edit: also I've played with the lifecycle rebalanced, realistic population, etc., mods for the last x years of C:S1, so those probably change things too.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Tarnop posted:

It's encouraging that the problems the game does have seen fixable and the stuff you'd expect to be really difficult to get right it does quite well already. I expect to end up eating crow when they never manage to get the economic and logistics stuff working but for now I'm optimistic.

Unfortunately the simulation is what I'm here for so until they fix that side of it the game feels hollow. Fortunately I have 10 days to check out the exciting range of other games on Microsoft Xbox Game Pass for PC

Between updates, DLC (yes I know, "ugh"), and mods, I'm pretty confident it'll turn out way better than C:S1.

C:S1 was really feeling the load of old decisions, and DLCs, and mods, all on the same stack. A better base to start with and build off of is exactly what I was looking for, and C:S2 seems like a good base.

At least now we're starting with a realistic scale, realistic population distribution, and (hopefully, when they fix it) a more in-depth economy sim. Half of that stuff in C:S1 either wasn't there, added in the Industry DLC, or added by many mods after the fact.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



You know, I'm thinking the explicit separate treatment of "commercial" as a demand and zone is a bad decision, inherited from the SimCity series, and the more I think about it, the more I think they should have removed commercial as a zone.

When I think about all the commercial activities in places I've lived or been, they're 95% of the time in a mixed residential situation, either as the first floor of an apartment building/office, or the first floor of a medium density housing situation (rowhouses, or several story buildings). The other big case is things like malls, or strip malls. I think there's very few situations where there are individual shops existing as their own building outside of another context. There is one building near me that is like a 5 story all-commercial building, with different things in there like a BJJ gym and an HR Block, but it looks like it was either built originally as apartments, or as an industrial space and later converted to have commercial space in it.

What I think they should have done, instead of introducing the kind of odd "mixed" zoning type, and breaking with the SimCity tradition, is to remove it as a zone entirely and have it done as either an add-on to a residential asset, or as a separate modular plopable. Isn't that the way they're done in-building parking for assets in CS2 already? You zone a building, an asset is chosen to be built there, and the asset can have different levels of parking spaces. If the asset could contain and optional capacity for commercial in it, you could model how cities really work a lot better, and not have this awkward separate commercial zoning business. If the commercial demand builds up in that area, some of the residential spaces in the building could be overtaken by commercial.

For situations where commercial really is a separate thing, plop a mall object, and you can expand it with more stores, or additional features (e.g. a faux town centre plaza, a la "Shops at Don Mills" in Toronto). You could start with a small mall, expand it when it gets bigger, add on some outlet stores next to the mall, connected via small roads and parking lots, add on a bigger extension like a movie theatre, etc.

The idea of explicitly zoning high density residential that doesn't contain any commercial space in it is far stranger to me, but its a core option in the game. All of the recent high density constructions in either NYC or Toronto that I can think of are like that: big rear end apartment building/condos, ground floor shops, and if it's a high enough density area, you can get below ground shops, additional underground parking, subway connections, connections to other buildings' underground malls, etc.

The whole RCI (Residential-Commercial-Industrial) bar is misleading and feeds back in to this. As I said before, with the Realistic Population mod in CS1, the RCI bar gets really confusing with the mod because its lying to you about what it means. The blue commercial in the bar is more of a general recreational demand/surplus indicator, instead of explicitly commercial. Industrial is a proxy for unemployment in your city, not actual industrial demand. You get the same issue with residential, as I've seen many people confused about, where the low density residential demand is constantly high and people feel pressured to reduce it. It shouldn't really be modelled as that specific zone having a big bar, but how desirable your city is to live in, and what conditions (i.e. density, cost) that people are willing to put up with to move there.

I think they should have split it out in to: immigration desirability, needs fulfillment, citizen happiness or amenity satisfaction, and unemployment.

You get those as general indicators, and you zone residential or industrial/office to your desire to fulfill the demands of immigration or unemployment. Commercial outlets get built as part of either existing residential structures, you building an explicit mall or outlet mall or similar thing. You plop down amenities such as parks, welfare offices, hospitals, etc., to make your citizens happy, or satisfy their other needs.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.




:hmmyes:

turn off the TV posted:

There are absolutely tons of commercial buildings that have their own structures and parts of the world where mixed use zoning is an oddity instead of the norm. I have been in maybe five mixed use buildings and four of those would have been in Chicago and the fifth was a shop that someone ran out of their house's ground floor.

:shrug: It could be a side effect of where I've lived being all mixed-use stuff, or maybe it was a hastily thrown together idea, but I still do feel like the way CS1 and 2 handle commercial leads to this weird result of commercial-only districts that don't work with my idea of how it works in a city.

99% of Manhattan looks like this, a ground floor commercial area with residential or offices above it. Outside of denser parts of Manhattan, it's the same thing but with medium density residential. There are some outliers, like the new Hudson Yards mall, but that's a discrete mall that's co-mingled with apartment and office buildings. The other exception in NYC is less dense parts having a discrete mall on its own, like New World Mall in Flushing, or if you go farther out in Queens, other malls or strip malls.

I did zoom in to a random part of semi-suburban Paris before posting to see if it was a different story for European cities, but it seemed to be the same thing: lots of medium density residential, with ground floor commercial, and maybe the rare individual non-mall commercial building, but even then the commercial building was basically identical to residential buildings next to it, like it was a different use of the same kind of zoning.

Thinking back to where I grew up, in a heavily suburban suburb of Toronto, it was the same deal: the local commercial cluster was a big mall, centered in a city block bounded by roads, with its own internal private road and parking lot system, with a later addition of strip mall and individual stores, but were still self contained in like a mall "complex" within that block.

Going in to the city, there's even areas that have medium density residential buildings that over time have become entirely commercial shops, like Yorkville in Toronto, due to the commercial demands of the area.

Those pictures posted above as a counterpoint are good examples of explicitly commercially zoned districts. Maybe that does justify having commercial treated on the same level as residential and industrial, but I'm not sure I like the way CS1/2 implement it still. The pictures are reminiscent of Breezewood, PA, which is this weird tiny area that is an exit between two highways, where they put up a bunch of fast food shops as a service area for a highway. The other thing it reminds me of is the Vegas or Reno strip, commercial and hotel zoning, in their own self-contained complexes. CS1 modelled things like the Vegas strip at least, with the tourism district specializations, but I don't think CS2 has anything close to it, so you can't model an area that should only have big resorts and hotels and theatres and malls popping out of commercial zones.

Los Angeles was another area I looked at briefly to see what they do, since they're way more spread out and suburban as a city. I saw a lot of little commercial areas like these, which are commercial-only buildings, but even then they're like mini strip malls with their own parking lots, and make sense as like a modular system where you could add more stories or expand outwards to have more parking or take-out fast food.

I wanted to look at a smaller town as an another case, since I know towns in the former American frontier had a lot of that "main street with medium density mixed" kind of thing going on, and Cheyenne, Wyoming has that going on, but going a bit beyond that street view also shows a lot of single-commercial buildings that don't fit in.

So I'm not sure, I might not be on the ball on commercial not needing to exist as its own zone, but I think having mixed commercial-residential as one single separate residential zoning type is still not a great solution. The thing that one zoning type is representing is such a varied and dynamic idea of residential/office buildings. I still feel like all medium and high density residential, and office buildings, should have their own ground floor commercial capabilities outside of the "mixed" zoning option, and that there should be modular plopables for things like malls -- explicit commercial-only areas that feature a wide range of shops and services entirely self contained inside one continuous complex. The way I see it now in CS2, like 80% of my city would be zoned as only mixed residential-commercial (without specifying density) zones, to get close to what I'm used to in cities I've lived and been, with patches of low density residential outside of that, and industrial off to the side.

Maybe I need more time trying CS2, and zoning only mixed-zoning residential-commercial and seeing if it works itself out. I feel like I do have some bias from playing enough vanilla CS1 where the commercial demand and zoning ensures that like 1/4 to 1/3 of your city is zoned in these weird several story tall commercial plots that consume as much of your city as the industrial or medium+high density parts.

piratepilates fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Oct 29, 2023

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



AceRimmer posted:

It was really disappointing unlocking the high density commercial and finding it only gives you multi-story version of the same businesses as low density commercial, no supermarkets or movie theaters. Unless I need to zone a really big continuous block to get a single big building or something?

Yeah this was another catalyst for my shower idea, I put down some high density commercial in a big grid expecting something like a mall or a bigger single store, and instead it plopped down these odd looking 2x4 multi-storey buildings, with an accompanying garage entrance with empty space above it.

I've also tried creating local suburban malls via plopping down roads and parking lots along with zoning large bits of low density commercial, but what I got was like an odd combination of fast food and gas stations.

Maybe it'll just be a matter of waiting for a new equivalent of the District Styles mod to fine tune what actually shows up, and adding custom assets for a real suburban supermarket.

piratepilates fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Oct 29, 2023

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



MikeJF posted:

To be fair a big mall is a major enough development that it's not just a regular part of zone growth, it's something that is usually specifically worked out with the city. Like Signature Buildings! Are there signature malls?

It looks like 2 has one in the European theme, none in the American theme? (strange)

The American theme does apparently have a multi-level fashion mall and a "muscle car garage" that's about half the size of the European supermarket.

All are only ploppable once in a city IIRC, since they're signature buildings.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Ms Adequate posted:

No I made sure to turn that off first thing, among other recommended graphics options.

Not sure what it's doing now though, I was playing for maybe 3 hours just now and the textures were fine but my fans sounded like they were readying for takeoff. This is a machine that can take Phantom Liberty on max settings, so :shrug:

E; just saw the post about Biffa's experiences, will give that a try if it happens again. Thanks for the replies and suggestions, goons!

E2;

I remember years ago, Simtropolis had a spate of city journals (ie, let's plays) where people had a house rule of basically this. Obviously with no in-game mechanics governing it they had to just fudge appropriate delays, restrictions, and so on, but it was a pretty interesting conceit for sure!

Maybe for the sake of playability you could split the difference, so you can pay out the wazoo to do it and still take a big happiness hit locally, or you can 'build' it as a proposal and get some criteria you have to fulfill in exchange, like if you're demolishing houses you need to provide new housing for the displaced residents and they better be good, or a street of stores might demand better public transit and more parking in exchange.

I think that would be a cool aspect to explore in a city builder, not only making existing buildings and roads harder to demolish willy nilly, but also having buildings be less fungible. Old factory buildings in your city, you rezone them to residential or commercial? Turns in to lofts, instead of being torn down and replaced by an entirely separate building. Historic buildings can be renovated to have new purposes, maybe have taller buildings built out of them with the old building as a facade (can you tell I'm from Toronto yet?). Doing construction on a major road has major ramifications and can actually lead to a negative outcome for the player.

Buildings could get new facades, renovations, or just age and become dilapidated. Row houses and medium density wall-to-wall buildings can be partially torn down. Houses can get additions, or be subdivided in to smaller lots. Cities could evolve over time, instead of having parts just be replaced instantly.

As much as I like Cities: Skylines, and have played it since launch, it is very much a game where you paint a city the way you want it to look, and not one where there are multiple dimensions to how the city evolves.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



MikeJF posted:

Everything you described is so difficult from a technical asset perspective, sadly.

Oh yeah, definitely. The one thing I left off of that post, is that I have no idea how you implement that, and do it in a way people would also enjoy.

A man can dream though.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Does anyone know any real life cities that are similar to the "Barrier Island" map? The one with the main big island separated from the mainland with a decently big sized bay.

I started with it to build a kind of Manhattan-y type deal, but it feels kind of awkward for that since Manhattan is an island surrounded by a lot of land, separated only by pretty narrow rivers (actually the East River is a tidal estuary). The Barrier Island in the map is much farther removed from the mainland. I'm curious to see how that would get built up in real life.

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piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Yeah I guess Hong Kong is actually pretty danged close, same kind of distance from the mainland, with a similar amount of space on the mainland to expand out to :hmmyes:

MikeJF posted:

Long Island New York? If you want the main city on the island that's probably going to be pretty rare, since you'd need some kind of reason for things to be on the less convenient mass. Hong Kong?

Yeah it's kinda similar to Long Island, but the only dense part of Long Island is the part with proximity to Manhattan. I think I need to shift up and try to do more of a Hong Kong style development, where it started as a fall fishing settlement and gained prominence from being a port, and then shifting in to finance.

piratepilates fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Oct 30, 2023

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



GlassEye-Boy posted:

Port Aransas Texas is almost a pretty close fit. or probably some barrier island along the carolina coast.


Hong Kong's urban growth was heavily influenced by the geography (mountains) of the island, the barrier island map is pretty much flat.

Port Aransas seems similar to Galveston, which was another one I had in mind, but they both seem pretty.......un-dense, which works against what I want (maximum density).

death cob for cutie posted:

Quays and canals and etc. aren't currently in CS2 hiding in a menu that I'm not seeing, right?

You have to hack it with slightly raised roads: https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/17j642x/an_easy_way_to_make_quays/

You can get some really good results with it like: https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/17jq7aw/amsterdam_inspired_city_i_made_using_retaining/



but its a lot of manual work, and not an actual placeable seawall.

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piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



death cob for cutie posted:

oh gently caress that looks hot

I liked the look of building islands/canals in my cities but it could look a little hacky sometimes in CS1 - I especially hated how quays couldn't act as like, pedestrian/bike paths. But now that those are a default feature, and with how good this looks, I could ring my islands in pedestrian paths. Especially nice now that terraforming is free/unrestricted.

Found another one on reddit that's also pretty crazy: https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/17jz084/i_created_a_huge_harbor_with_some_roadtricks_and/



Even has a video supposedly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emG3PtCGQTo

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