LeoMarr posted:10 employes all making 10 dollars is 100 dollars an hour for staffing Workers being parasites that do nothing for companies, anything that fires them is good for the economy.
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May 5, 2015 01:30
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LeoMarr posted:hahaha you sure about that? I know at least 5 businesses that would nuke their labor force to bring profits back up. IF you're paid $15 an hour you're going to be expected to do the world of 1.50 They teach you about the difference between real and nominal dollars in high school, don't they?
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May 5, 2015 01:50
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One thing that gets neglected in any discussion of the minimum wage is how many people work multiple jobs just to support themselves. If, for the sake of argument, hiking the minimum wage up to a living-wage level cuts those jobs by 10% or so, but 50-60% of people with those jobs worked two jobs before and now work one, the number of jobs increases. (1000 workers = 1500 jobs - (0.1*1500) = 1350 jobs = 35% increase in people employed). This is not authoritative, but you would need minimum-wage hikes to seriously cut the number of jobs in order to see a net decrease given how many people work multiple jobs. Ervin K posted:I'm not arguing about how much people should be making, you people are doing some pretty hardcore mental gymnastics here. I'm arguing that the government shouldn't force companies to pay people $15 just for showing up. Also we all do jobs to stay alive, I'm curious in what part of America do you need to make $15 an hour to stay alive? http://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/26163
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May 5, 2015 03:07
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Typo posted:If you want to have a minimum wage debate D&D is possibly the worst place to have it, because there is too much of an emotional attachment to the minimum wage as a policy (rather than as a principle) that opposing it basically makes you what an apostate is to a true believer. Yah, everyone should be Mr. Motherfucking Spock about this.
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May 5, 2015 03:25
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Typo posted:*Is unironically proud of the fact that he doesn't want to have a rational discussion. The idea that "rationality" means not having any emotional investment is a pernicious kind of insanity, one that is basically coterminous with technocracy.
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May 5, 2015 03:36
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Typical Pubbie posted:Price != value. The government can set the price of labor by fiat, but I can't think of any feasible way for it to set the value. Price controls are generally a bad thing. The D&D consensus after MW threads play themselves out is that the MW is the worst of the best policy options for boosting incomes at the bottom of the pay-scale. Ideally society would eliminate the minimum wage, tax wealth, and transfer the revenue from those taxes to all Americans in the form of an expanded EITC and more robust social welfare programs. Why would we need to eliminate the minimum wage?
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May 5, 2015 03:43
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I don't quite know how you can smarm about useless arts degrees and about how first-worlders are labor aristocrats simultaneously, but I guess it really is true that Yakub protects his misbegotten children.
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May 6, 2015 18:35
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wateroverfire posted:I feel you and I think education makes life better for people, mostly. What is the ROI on having children in the modern age? Human extinction now!
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May 6, 2015 18:37
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wateroverfire posted:It's about husbanding scarce resources. Even if it's a long term proposition, social spending should have some kind of return. What is the return on investment for caring for disabled people?
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May 6, 2015 18:42
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paranoid randroid posted:this guy posts on a loving forum. can you believe that poo poo. can you... man, i ran the numbers and the fail is just totally off the chart here. were talking care in the 75th percentile, maxed out salt concentration. its mind-blowing how mad this guy is, on a forum. Please be nice to Geriatric Pirate, who takes twenty minutes to type out a sentence.
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May 6, 2015 18:44
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Gravel Gravy posted:Inflated sense of superiority. Uh, that and three bucks gets you a coffee. I want cash for providing diabetics with insulin.
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May 6, 2015 18:44
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wateroverfire posted:The thing is, if your social spending doesn't pay back on some timescale you're literally less able to face problems with every new investment cycle than you could have been. Agreed, no more care for the disabled. No more children. Nothing will be done that doesn't give you at least as much money as you spend on it.
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May 6, 2015 18:46
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Geriatric Pirate posted:maybe there's a middle ground, a middle ground where we pay for things like education for kids and care for the disabled, but where we don't give you your disability checks just so you can post on the forums for 20 hours per day Maybe we can find this middle ground by destroying the inferior white race.
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May 6, 2015 18:50
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What's the ROI on Europe? Basically zero? Wouldja look at that.
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May 6, 2015 18:57
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paranoid randroid posted:(ps i made $300 posting that. also my cousin knows hulk hogan) You filthy dance major poor, I make a thousand dollars a minute AND I am an actual god.
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May 6, 2015 19:09
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I'm completely self-taught as a historian by Google and my local library, which is how I know that the Holocaust never happened.
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May 6, 2015 19:20
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paranoid randroid posted:uhh time is finite retard how are we supposed to educate everyone before the universe closes Tehre's only finite amounts of food, we can't possibly feed everyone. Opportunity cost!!
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May 6, 2015 19:24
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wateroverfire posted:I'm kind of slightly left of center bro. I think we've all learned something valuable about you from your post. Oh for sure dude.
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May 6, 2015 19:26
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Geriatric Pirate posted:it's not a strawman, people in this thread actually argued that welfare benefits are a subsidy to walmart because the government helps feed their workers You could have just said you're blind up front.
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May 6, 2015 19:29
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wateroverfire posted:LOL yeah when you look at the numbers no it isn't. Just get to the part where you squeal like a castrated pig about the mothershitting liberal arts again.
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May 6, 2015 19:32
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wateroverfire posted:Eh how many different times can you double dip the progressive taxation angle? So how often do you gently caress watermelons?
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May 6, 2015 20:53
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asdf32 posted:So yes. I disagree. I bet you laughed uncontrollably while you were writing this.
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May 6, 2015 21:16
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Inequality being good, I assume wateroverfire is fine with enhancing his inequality with other people by having his hands cut off.
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May 7, 2015 23:54
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Cole posted:what about that guy who started out at minimum wage back when it was $6.50/hour and he's been working all these years and it up to $15 now. that's almost $9 an hour he has earned in raises over the last decade or so. and then minimum wage gets bumped up to $15/hour. This would only happen in the case of malfeasance by employers, so agreed- 15 bucks an hour is only a stepping stone on the pathway to economic democracy.
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May 7, 2015 23:59
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Cole posted:publix supermarket cake decorators max at $14.89/hour and they cross train people who make minimum bagging groceries to do cake decorators  You're a loving idiot because companies will increase the wages and benefits of people to retain talent .
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May 8, 2015 00:17
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Look, if we raise the wages of workers that require minimal training, clearly the wages of workers that require some or extensive training will remain stagnant, as will the wages of experienced workers. That's simple eccconamics.
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May 8, 2015 00:19
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Cole posted:Getting paid what you are worth has nothing to do with self esteem. It has a lot to do with getting paid what you are worth. There are jobs out there that are not worth $15/hour. No there aren't. Good. Small businesses are incredibly inefficient in economic terms.
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May 8, 2015 00:25
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Small businesses produce about 1.2 million bucks apiece. Big businesses produce 400 million bucks apiece. If we used less ridiculous definitions, this would get even worse.
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May 8, 2015 00:33
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Cole posted:You're only thinking of companies like Wal Mart in situations like this. Some small businesses will get railed harder than your favorite prison story, and not necessarily because they are raising minimum wage to $15, but because that will create entitlement among those who were hired before the minimum wage increase. nooooo not 'entitlement' goddamn these kids, thinking they have a right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, freedom of speech, freedom of worship, privacy, etc. etc.
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May 8, 2015 00:39
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Cole posted:happiness isn't a right, the pursuit of it is. nope, that's entitlement, thinking you have the right to pursue happiness. someone should kick your self-esteemed rear end.
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May 8, 2015 00:41
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Cole posted:Really? You don't think people would be pissed about getting paid minimum wage simply because minimum wage gets raised so much more drastically than it has been raised in the past? You're pretty hard headed if you think people would be okay with that. I can't believe nobody pointed this out, but there are at least three ways you aren't "people", Cole.
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May 8, 2015 00:42
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Cole posted:You do know it's possible to move on from your $10/hr job to bigger and better things, right? You don't need to artificially get there, you can actually go out and earn $50k a year if you really give some effort. Frankly, you should be fired from your job for this innumeracy.
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May 8, 2015 00:43
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Cole posted:It has nothing to do with making more than someone else to feel good. Stop putting words in my mouth. It has to do with putting in several years of work to get above minimum wage to only get placed right back at minimum wage. You proved yourself over years that you are worth more than minimum, that's why you got a raise in the first place. In many cases, you're giving people who have worked hard to get paid more than minimum wage a raise.... right to minimum wage, and that's a lovely proposition. That is not going to happen you, even though your multiplication-inept brain thinks it will.
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May 8, 2015 00:45
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Fifteen dollars an hour, full-time, 52 weeks a year, is 31,200 dollars gross pay. Not 50,000+.
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May 8, 2015 00:46
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Cole posted:Because they are 15 years old. It doesn't say anything in the Bible about how much anyone should be paid, let alone teenagers.
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May 8, 2015 00:48
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Cole posted:The Bible also doesn't give an age of consent. Do you still want to use the Bible to prop up your argument? I'm looking through the UCMJ, and nothing on that either. Where exactly does this idea come from? Surely you didn't try to think, did you?!?
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May 8, 2015 00:50
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Cole posted:In a perfect world, you would take a baseline amount that it takes to live on (to cover rent, food, etc), increase it by a certain percentage (say 10%), and call that minimum wage. If you have a child that you are the primary care for, maybe you are eligible for a monthly stipend to help care for your kid. What do you think the $15/hour wage is, jackoff?
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May 8, 2015 00:56
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Cole posted:The core of my argument has been about that guy who is already making $15/hour. You are undermining what that person has done for several years by sticking them back at minimum wage anyway. Those guys make below the median income anyways, and so are basically criminals according to you.
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May 8, 2015 00:59
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paragon1 posted:$15 an hour works out to $31,200 a year, which is okay but not great if you are the sole earner in a household with multiple dependents. It's actually below a living wage for any family with kids that has one earner.
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May 8, 2015 01:04
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paragon1 posted:Well I did suggest that it should actually be $20 an hour. Yeah, realistically, it should be 20-21 nationally to cover single parents and one-income households (and higher in the west coast and new england), though with readjusting welfare payments you could make it work with 15/hour
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May 8, 2015 01:07
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