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There was a nice thread here about twitter making everyone braindead that was closed a long time ago. I think it'd be better to just bring that back.
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Jun 26, 2015 14:23
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The current state of games journalism has become a troupe of sad people blowing up their careers to attack faceless nerds. What started as legitimate harassment has become a social media cafeteria fight where nobody runs out of food. The end result has been a bunch of video game sites adding ethics policies and a slew of people rendering themselves unemployable. Surprisingly, nobody in this fight is good.
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Jun 26, 2015 14:33
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Black Baby Goku posted:The people who talk about this are infinitely more insufferable than the actual members of Gamergate. I too feel sorry for video game journalists.
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Jun 26, 2015 14:47
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Black Baby Goku posted:Also, Anita and Feminist Frequency have done more to harm feminism and its goals than GG ever did. Normal people give no shits about identity politics and its retarded goals. It makes her look like a clown to the average person. John McIntosh needs to get out more.
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Jun 26, 2015 14:51
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Rainbow Unicorn posted:Video games aren't that important in the scheme of things and also this entire drama was silly as hell but otoh a bunch of actual women were actually driven out of their homes via tactics that would be punishable by prison time if only law enforcement took things that originate on the internet seriously. So idk, I get where people are coming from when they are dismissive of this entire situation because it's stupid as hell, but also, I'm a woman who plays games and occasionally creates a half finished pile of poo poo that could maybe one day be an okay indie game if I had an attention span longer than an average goldfish's, and part of why I don't pursue it more heavily is because a part of me thinks "oh well if I ever finished something and had to market it there's a non-zero chance hateful people would find my personal info and make my life a living hell." So I do other safer things instead, which is fine, but how many potentially cool games aren't being made because of this? who knows. Social media outrage culture has expanded in the last few months, you don't have to be just a game dev. You could be a scientist or an astronomer. I heard there were some incidents with those. Honestly just don't use twitter and you'll probably be OK. If you make your game and someone ribs it, like this fellow has made habit, thats par for the course.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:02
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XMNN posted:I don't think stalking is socially acceptable. Tell that to Gawker. Or Enquirer.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:07
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Rainbow Unicorn posted:This is true but also a little misleading and dismissive because in some industries it is increasingly a requirement to put yourself way, way out there on social media, enough so that if an online community decided to suddenly make you a target of harassment you'd be totally screwed with very little recourse. Obviously at the end of the day people who put themselves on social media are choosing to do so, but sometimes it is a very real decision between "welp, do I find a different job/career or do I risk the possibility that somewhere someday a bunch of ill adjusted sociopaths will post my address and phone number to an online message board and harass me for a year+ straight" I've been in Computer Science and the surrounding culture for almost 15 years and I have yet to find an effective counter to troll culture. They evolve just as fast as the medium. Short of removing anonymity entirely, or drastically increasing the powers of net surveillance, it's basically whackamole.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:16
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SedanChair posted:Games are about the most important form of media there is nowadays, and the one filled with the most gross sexism. Since this is a new thread, what forms of sexism stand out most to you?
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Jun 26, 2015 15:22
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SedanChair posted:I agree with everything Anita Sarkeesian has ever said. Oh. OK.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:30
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Archer666 posted:As someone from a earlier internet generation, it's always a little strange for me when people do their best to put their names out into the internet as much as they can. Also taking facebook/twitter extremely seriously, if this gamergate mess is to be believed. It's the complete opposite of what I was taught about the internet in the day. The fact that we're actually seriously discussing calling the police to arrest people for trolling someone is, to a part of me, completely surreal. Pretty much. Back in the day drama was contained to usenet groups and IRC. Now in this modern era everyone can see whatever mind-numbing thing enters your head in 140 characters or less. I think half the problem is people reflexively use Twitter and either don't think about what they say, or forget that context doesn't exist on social media.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:34
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Effectronica posted:What is the purpose of this question? To deny that sexism exists in video games, gaming culture, the United States, the world? To prove gamer cred, obviously. quote:Actually, I would rather the sort of person who cares about this not exist at all, rather than being reoriented to be a idiocy factory for a better cause. So in lieu of them getting the necessary psychotherapy... You're not related to former poster bonvivant, are you? InsanityIsCrazy fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Jun 26, 2015 |
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Jun 26, 2015 15:36
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Sephiroth_IRA posted:I think I've seen mental illness and a few reasonable people on both sides. Somehow the topic keeps ending up on the news, the radio and referenced in popular media so it's not like people are still talking about one thing that happened a year ago. This has definitely given me greater appreciation for tech writers like Erik Kain and David Auerbach.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:47
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SedanChair posted:Sure, I just think it's hilarious when gamer misogynists get flustered when it's even pointed out. It's kinda like walking into a republican rally and calling everyone racist. The overall statement is probably true, but there might be some collateral damage from people who just really like elephants.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:58
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icantfindaname posted:This game about a big-boobed British-accented dominatrix wearing a skintight suit of her own heel-length hair, I don't see how this could be sexist. Nor the game with prostitute trading cards and sex scenes with them. Will the feminazi media never stop? Wait, I thought Bayonetta was empowering to some? Have you read Liana Kerzner?
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Jun 26, 2015 16:01
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Effectronica posted:Hmm, well, I don't think it works quite like that. I know you want it to, because it allows one right answer and the rest wrong, but it's just not real. It's an insane way to look at the world. I've followed your work on an off for a few years. Aggressive, brutal. I like it. But thats just, like, your opinion dude.
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Jun 26, 2015 16:05
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Dreylad posted:that guy does seem to be a pretty big idiot, it's true. Johnny hasn't stopped chewing on his foot for the past five months, up to pulling the Jack Thompson card on Doom's violence. He's a great comic strip, but how anyone takes him seriously is mystifying.
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Jun 26, 2015 16:16
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paranoid randroid posted:uhh the freaking omnisexual blue chicks that are smoking hot to everyone in the entire galaxy but also still look like humans more or less are feminist? I'm guessing shes talking about sex positive sort of feminism, what with the asari having that whole culture of intimate expression, but I didn't really play mass effect when I was sober.
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Jun 26, 2015 16:22
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Effectronica posted:The only fun part of discussing sexism in media is that you can get this massive circle going where people can justify literally every single female character's design in, say, fighting games, but never get to the part of asking why you basically have a choice between sexualized and hypersexualized characters. Isn't that more because sexuality is different for everyone?
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Jun 26, 2015 16:23
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paranoid randroid posted:im glad weve got yet another thread dedicated to mining the dankest twitter drama where nothing actually happens ever. some loving epic lulz to be unearthed here. The 'nothing' in this case being people losing their jobs over being stupid on the internet. Some schadenfreude, but the wells running dry.
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Jun 26, 2015 16:27
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Effectronica posted:Not really. Even if someone rejects the hourglass figure that's the current ideal in the US, most of Europe, and Japan, they still understand that to be sexy. And that's what virtually every female character in fighting games, barring literal children, has, along with a revealing costume that highlights sexuality. Even a character like Sakura that's on the low end of this scale still gets bigger boobs and a wider midriff when translated to merchandise. With the current microscope focused on character sexuality, it's almost impossible for game developers to make a female character that someone, somewhere on social media will not boycott for either appearance, personality, or their role in the story. There is a laser focus on problematic design but nobody has really offered constructive criticism other than "it's sexist." I don't see why devs bother if their artistic decisions do nothing but cause backlash. And yes, merchandise does focus on what sells the most. Then again, that's basically the same market as body pillows, so while creepy it's not entirely new.
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Jun 26, 2015 16:40
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The Quinn situation was entirely the Streisand Effect. IIRC some idiots on reddit were discussing it and suddenly some 10,000 comments were mass deleted, supposedly because Quinn had a guy on the inside. I think it happened on other forums too? Iunno but it was a dumb thing to do. Kinda like Warner Bros. ceasing production of the Dukes' General Lee merchandise because of a certain flag 
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Jun 26, 2015 16:47
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Meme Emulator posted:Wrong controversy!!! This is a different RPG made by eastern europeans that I forget the name of That would be Kingdom Come: Deliverance, I think.
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Jun 26, 2015 16:50
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"Everything is a trope and those tropes are sexist" --Modern game critics
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Jun 26, 2015 16:55
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Effectronica posted:There is no such thing. Assuming you meant "what are the other options available", you could always design characters that don't have sexualized costumes, have figures that aren't improbable hourglasses, etc. because these things are not necessary for good character design. See, for example, in SSF2T alone, how you have body types as diverse as T. Hawk, E. Honda, Dhalsim, and Zangief- but only for men. I think there was a bout of claiming big girl designs was some form of fatshaming, but there's been so much discussion of negative body types and costume designs that its all sort of background noise now.
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Jun 26, 2015 16:57
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Red Suit posted:That game actually looks pretty fun if they deliver on the, "Anything can be solved through combat, stealth or diplomacy" thing It will be a nice change of pace from the elder scrolls. Effectronica posted:Would you mind rephrasing your posts, because when I try to read them as they are right now, I find myself involuntarily putting a gun to my head after the second word. It's working, then? Good.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:05
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Body sliders are the way of the future for gaming diversity.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:13
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I said come in! posted:Except it's not every single female character, actually it's none at all. Clothing choices doesn't equal jack off material. If you're drawing that conclusion that is entirely on you. I think we're traipsing back into "character deaths making sex sounds" territory...
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Jun 26, 2015 17:14
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Totalizator posted:So why do these critics want to alter the design and creative choices other people make that they don't like, rather then promoting or funding games that are being made they do like? This entire thing is trying to shame people for enjoying things a small subset of left wing puritans don't approve of and trying to coerce developers to bend to the sensibilities of a loud minority, over the heads of people who like things as they are. Promoting and funding games is too much effort. Surprisingly, the games they claim to support end up selling terribly and the studios often go extinct. Then the studio devs gleefully take to social media to spit on the audience they were supposed to be catering, for reasons that escape most people.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:25
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paranoid randroid posted:says the dude with up-to-the-minute feeds on the activities of marginal gamergate people of note I missed this kind of back-and-forth. Even Tezzor gets boring after the wrestling jokes subside.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:26
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Gamergate: the fastest trigger in the west
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Jun 26, 2015 17:32
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Effectronica posted:The poster with the handle "Totalizator" is dead.  Homicidal leftists. I love 'em!
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Jun 26, 2015 18:06
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Dapper Dan posted:Just a friendly reminder to not-hellthread, don't take this as an extremely serious issue. This topic is like the Lovecraft tome of the internet. The longer you stare into it and rant at people, you risk going down the path of cardboard box a and spacedad. Down that path lies madness. It was tactical genius to pit the kooks of hellthread against the blood-crazed loonies of D&D. This is the royal rumble Tezzor wanted.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:08
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Effectronica posted:There's nothing wrong with saying, on the internet, that you want to murder someone in horrible ways, like the fact that I'm saying that I want to crucify you Roman-style, where you're fed and watered and eventually die from exhaustion and exposure after a matter of weeks, well, that's just on the internet, it's not real. Or it wouldn't be real if I was firmly on the right wing. Ave, true to Caesar!
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Jun 26, 2015 18:13
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Unfunny Poster posted:That image is of a video game character designed specifically in that way by a mostly male video game design team, not someone in real life. That SVU episode was a documentary. Tell Your Children!
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Jun 26, 2015 18:16
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Any actual game developers around here willing to vouch for the problem of sexuality in video games?
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Jun 26, 2015 18:32
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Bedlamdan posted:Can we still derail this thread to talk about the Elder Scrolls Franchise? Gotta phrase it right. "Lydia's follower AI was purposefully programmed to be dumb because she's a woman, and that's sexist"
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Jun 26, 2015 18:34
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Bicyclops posted:Anita Sarkeesian has some pretty drat gentle and well-expressed criticism but it got people into such a frothing rage that they latched onto the bad ex-boyrfriend letter and the Firefly celebrity Tweet and are still, like a year later, talking about the Gamergate. It just goes on and on, even though the relatively simple idea that video games, as an industry, have some problems with women and could stand to adjust, both for moral reasons and to incorporate new audiences, should be the easiest thing in the world to agree about. Theoretically, I should have no problem with Anita's criticism and should accept it wholecloth. Unfortunately she and John are pushing the idea of Toxic Masculinity infecting people who play video games and Batman games making people think they're all Jack Bauer.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:40
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i'm a game dev, and there is a problem with sexuality in video games Loverslab doesn't count.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:44
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Unfunny Poster posted:
I always thought of sexualized armor as vanity armor, like truck nuts for the empowered amazonian
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Jun 26, 2015 18:47
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Literally The Worst posted:The game where oorah manly man shoot a bunch of dudes is not targeted towards any one particular audience, as evidenced by the fact that there are women who play it, this is a thing you're saying and it's wrong You've never played COD with girls before?
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Jun 26, 2015 18:49
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