Venezuela: The Empanada Summit

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Venezuela: The Empanada Summit

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Hugoon Chavez posted:

Alright I'm going to pop back into yet another Venezuela thread and try to not get frustrated when other goons try to convince me Chavez was a pretty good guy.

I'm yet another Venezuelan ex-pat, posting from Spain! my wife and I traveled back there on March 2015 after 5 years away and it was completely depressing after living in a "first-world country". Back when we left we thought things couldn't get much worse and it turns out things can always get shittier.

Anyway, I understand this is not the place for posting E/N crap. I just wanted to point out a few things about the current colombian-venezuelan discussion, mostly to give some perspective in case you don't know all of this stuff.

Way back then, 80's and 90's when I was a baby and a toddler respectively, Venezuelans were pretty biased against Colombians. My understanding is that a lot of Colombians had traveled to Venezuela following the Oil rush, as one could guess, and often they were treated pretty bad. Not full on ghettos and racism, but there was a lot of bad blood and stereotyping. I'm guessing it would be very similar to American-Mexican relations, mild racism and loaded jokes.

Thankfully that got downplayed as timed passed by, since after all Venezuela is an immigrant heavy country and we're pretty used to living along several different ethnicities. That said, there's still some deep seated feeling of superiority in the Venezuelan's collective mind about Colombia. Hell, a LOT of people I know personally attacked Maduro because of being Colombian, very much alike Americans attacking Obama for being "a Muslim" which I thought was funny in a sad way.

Also, when Chavez arrived the political relations with Colombia started suffering pretty hard, mostly thanks to the latter's friendliness with the US government, which you might've heard was Chavez favorite enemy.

The Xenophobia is nothing new, just a resurgence.

Now, since ever, Colombia-Venezuela borders have been a smuggling hotspot. When the current state of affairs started (mainly speaking about the horrible scarcity of products and the currency control) things got even more out of control. There were cars with extra gas tanks going out of Venezuela in order to resell gas for a giant markup, then coming back with clothes, food and hygiene products. Selling those things on the street is known as "Bachaqueo" and can get you in jail in minutes if you're not too careful, but you can basically earn a full month of minimum wage in a single day by reselling shampoo. I have no idea why the border has been kept open so long, really, considering how things work.

And a third-party anecdote: My friends currently living in Colombia are getting harassed pretty hardcore since this all started, too. One of them told me she was goint to quit her job because of it and all. What goes around comes around I guess, but then again Venezuelans are starting to get a well deserved infamy in the wole world, anyway.

Seems like things can only get worse for Venezuela, as Venezuelan expats are cut off from being able to provide hard currency in the form of remittances from their new nations of residence to their Venezuelan relatives and friends.

Venezuela: If it can get worse under communist rule, it will.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2015 03:05

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# ¿ May 6, 2024 09:24

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Chuck Boone posted:

I think that given the circumstances Santos has done what he can reasonably be expected to do in this situation. I don't think he is - nor should he be - worried one bit about what Maduro or Venezuelans think about him. I think that public sentiment in Colombia is fairly clear on the issue, given the way the deportees were treated in Venezuela, and that's the audience Santos is playing to.

After the initial meeting between Foreign Ministers on Wednesday, Santos and Maduro both summoned the other country's ambassadors to talk about the issue. Colombian Foreign Affairs Minister Maria Angela Holguin said yesterday that Santos called Maduro over the weekend to discus the issue, but that Maduro hasn't called Santos back. She also said that Colombia has reached out to the Venezuelan People's Defender and the governor of Tachira state, but that neither of them have responded. It's almost as if the Venezuelan government isn't really interested in coming up with a meaningful, lasting solution to the issue!

Yesterday, Santos also said that he was calling for a meeting of UNASUR so that Colombia could go on record there about what has happened.

Also yesterday, Maduro gave a speech at an event in Caracas (I think it was Caracas) and he made a couple of more-or-less concrete demands he wants Colombia to meet before he reopens the border. The video is here and my translation is below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2SaM3m8h9c

There was also a really interesting article published in RunRun.es yesterday that talked about how the border in Tachira is still porous, thanks exclusively to the ease with which Venezuelan guards are bribed. The article claims that a guide to lead you to the border costs Bs. 2,000, and that the guides charge Bs. 700 per person to cover the bribes for Venezuelan guards. A guide who works out of San Antonio, Tachira said:

From your perspective, what would be the most sustainable Columbian response to Venezuela's implementation of its cashgrab ethnic cleansing?

Maduro is coming off a lot like Dada Amin when Amin kicked the Indians out of Uganda.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2015 00:45

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

PerpetualSelf posted:

Santos is giving a address to the nation and comparing the Venezuelan military marking Colombian housrs with Ds and tearing them down to Nazis destroying houses in jewish ghettos.

It's been extremely intelectual. No grandstanding. No hyperbole. He's simplu outlined every single humans righ abuse and what Colombia has tried to do in the UN.

He just stated that the Colombian Attorney General will bring charges of humans rights abuse and crimes against humanity to the international court in La Hague agaisnt key leaders of the Venezuelan military and government.

Link to the statements

Best part imo

"It's also evident that the strategy of the Venezuelan Government is to blame Colombia for all of it's ills. But like I said a few days ago, Venezuela's problems are made in Venezuela, not in Colombia. They are so absurd, so out of touch with reality, the accusations and pointing of fingers, that they collapse under their own weight. Who could fault a poor senior citizen who was deported for the high scarcity of basic goods that the Venezuelan people suffer from. Who can blame the high exchange rate or inflation on children that have been kicked out of their homes?

And who could possibly even consider that in Bogota with my governments consent and oversight there is a plan to try and take the life of President Maduro? No! A thousand times no! Colombia is a decent nation, civilized, a democracy that respects human rights and international law. We believe in dialogue and diplomacy and we always will! Even If others rely on their own prejudices and paranoias, we will always persists in the serene soberness of our own actions '

Columbia is a nation on the path towards sustainable development through democratic institutions. It is my view, and what I hope is the view of Congress, that Columbia not be allowed to be made the Poland of South America by the communist and fascist tendancies of her neighbors.

It really is sickening how greedy and powerhungry Maduro and the Chavismo movement are and have been.

Stay safe, Columbian allies.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2015 04:02

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Hugoon Chavez posted:

You guys asked about our experience voting in Venezuela:

It is true that traditionally voting takes place in schools around here. You are assigned a school near you when you register to the CNE and vote there on election day.

I've voted three times in Venezuela and one in Spain.

My first vote I believe was in the referendum, the voting that took place when Chavez had completed half his first period, and it went ok. Back then things weren't so delicate.

The next voting process was very different. First of all, chavist political propaganda in voting centers is nothing new, since at that point public schools were encouraged (required?) To hang pictures of Chavez along with the very standard picture of Simon Bolivar in every classroom.

Weirdly enough, political propaganda for the opposition was banned, and it got so ridiculous that they wouldn't let you view if you had a flag, or clothes representing it.

That second time my grandma was offered help to use tree voting machine by the functionaries wearing Red shirts v and chavist motives. And when I say offered I mean heavily, they insisted on going to the voting machine with her and use it in her stead.

My own complicated experience was going to view and having to run away when guys in motorcycles surrounded my voting school and started singing pro chavist songs and shooting in the air. Had to come back later in the day and voted normally.

I suppose the question is, as you reflect back upon your experiences, at what point could Venezuela's slide into authoritarianism no longer be halted, and what is the best vaccination for other developing nations against irresponsible actors like Chavez?

# ¿ Sep 2, 2015 09:31

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

It's awesome that your non-totalitarian party won the election with a large enough majority to enact structural reforms. Question I have is, why'd the military let them? I'm certain Maduro and friends would have coup'd y'all if they could.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2015 03:13

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Anti-corruption campaigns are often quite dangerous for national institutions. Yes, the previous regime was corrupt as gently caress; what is to stop the next regime from blaming every problem upon the past and enacting an anticorruption drive which incentivizes individuals to hide away as much as they can while they can?

# ¿ Dec 14, 2015 06:22

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Chuck Boone posted:

Constitutional lawyers are already coming out and condemning the whole NCC nonsense. Juan Manuel Rafalli is a constitutional lawyer and professor at the Universidad Catolica Andres Bello , and he summed up the body in an interview with El Nacional:

A bit of background: as Rafalli points out, the Constitution does allow for "communal councils" to form, but not in the permanent, on-equal-footing-with-the-National-Assembly way in which it was created.

Maduro said on his weekly television show last night that the NCC would have full legislative powers.

Rafalli also provided the obvious answer to the question, "Why is the PSUV doing this?":

What makes this whole thing even more ridiculous is that the NCC was created at the last meeting of a five year session, and after the spanking the PSUV got on December 6.

You'd have to be willfully blind or delusional to think that this has anything to do with "giving people a voice". It's nothing but a pathetic attempt to throw a wrench in the new National Assembly's wheels. The NCC is going to be revoked or ignored, Venezuelanalysis and Telesur will have a fit, and the kool-aid drinking PSUV supporters in the country and abroad will have another fictitious bone to pick with the MUD.

Authoritarians will attempt to seize as much power as you allow them to.

How will Venezuela prevent the fascists from seizing power?

# ¿ Dec 17, 2015 04:23

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

GunnerJ posted:

Would it make more sense to... not shut the NCC down? And just ignore it? If the idea is to have a stick to beat the MUD with when the National Assembly shuts the NCC down, but it's basically powerless, then what's the point?

I think the idea is to dissolve the national assembly before MUD takes their seats.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2015 19:52

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

So wait, am I misunderstanding or did the PSUV lose an election then go "nuh uh, we'll set up our own parliament. With blackjack and hookers!" ?

How did people get chosen for this wacky "Communal" Council? Appointment? A second set of elections?

I believe the term you're looking for is coup. The PSUV are attempting to launch a bureaucratic coup against MUD.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2015 21:00

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Adventure Pigeon posted:

The military not playing ball makes me hope that the PSUV won't be able to pull this sort of crap much longer. It really does sound like the elections went about as well as can be hoped, and now the PSUV is just desperate to salvage the situation.

They are like rats on a sinking ship. They would prefer civil war to being held accountable for their crimes. They feel as if the people of Venezuela betrayed them and voted for war after they warned the people of the consequences.

One should always take totalitarians at their word when they promise violence, and arm themselves accordingly.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2015 21:22

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

M. Discordia posted:

Yes, it's pretty much setting up an insurgent counter-government. Though they have to be aware that their decrees will just be ignored, as they have as much legal force as a person standing on a street corner trying to outlaw Mondays and very little support base willing to take up arms. It's more for the spectacle two months from now of claiming the "people's voice" is being shut down, as fodder for the socialists abroad looking to spin Venezuelan events back in their favor.

There's a bit of a stickler: what happens when the chavistas raid the armouries and attempt to enforce those decrees on their own?

# ¿ Dec 17, 2015 22:14

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Borneo Jimmy posted:

They're people from local communal councils who have helped bring participatory democracy to Venezuelans who were previously marginalized and ignored under right wing governments, this is simply bringing these movements to a national level. These groups have been an integral in furthering the Bolivarian Revolution on a local scale for a decade.

Sounds like a buncha unelected political appointees. Why do you hate democracy, Jimmy? You have to accept that democracy means sometimes you lose.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2015 00:30

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

fnox posted:

The government is trying to remove opposition deputies through the Supreme Tribunal of Justice, which shouldn't be working at this time of the year, but is doing so with permission from the current National Assembly, which isn't supposed to be in session but is doing so with permission from...The TSJ.

Would you rather live under an illegitimate PSUV government which has seized power through bureaucratic coup, or under a Peronesque right-wing strongman?

# ¿ Dec 23, 2015 17:24

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Amused to Death posted:

I feel like the end result of this is basically going to be riots

You're not thinking long-term enough. What happens when Maduro gives the military an order to put down the riots with live fire?

Here's what I see as the smart play for MUD: Make sure the military is behind you, seat your supermajority of delegates, stuff the supreme court to rule the previous stuffing and electoral fuckery attempts of PSUV invalid, null, and void, and round up PSUV supporters who are attempting a coup and begin mass prosecutions of the communists so as to preserve democratic institutions against their use of military force to hold onto power. Eliminate all fuel subsidies, privitize state assets, have the courts rule cooperatives were illegal seizures of state funds for corrupt purposes, and ensure that above all else the civil servants, such as those in the police, military, and security services have a fully-funded salary and pension which can afford them at a minimum a high quality middle-class lifestyle.

Here's the most likely move I see for PSUV: Burn the Reichstag.

# ¿ Dec 31, 2015 05:48

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

CalmDownMate posted:

Well the MUDs plans are to have a massive group of people March publically into the congress with all the Representatives and see them seated. How could that possibly fail? The chavistas can mount a counter protest and violence in the streets but they have so little support amongst the populace that if anything major goes down people will only convinced further to vote against them.

The only Hope here for psuv lies in their paramilitary forces.

How'd it work out for the French National Assembly?

# ¿ Dec 31, 2015 21:59

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Borneo Jimmy posted:

Yes I'm aware fascism does well at the polls during times of economic turmoil.

The opposition has a long tradition of setting fire to poo poo and killing people when they don't get their way and it usually just fizzles out. If they try something like that again (which I wouldn't put past them) after winning an election they will just look more ridiculous.

It doesn't matter who dies, Jimmy; what matters is whether a process was followed for the institutions which undertook the acts of killings which is representative of a broad base of stakeholders and reflective of the current will of the people, or whether those acts can be undertaken from the authorization of one individual. We call the later 'Stalinism,' you South American tankie.

The National Assembly has few options, none of which are 'good.' The best they can do is empower friendly politicians outside Caraccas with the tools necessary to resist implementation of Maduro's unconstitutional executive fiat.

Are there any good maps of population and resource distribution in Venezuela? Wealth permitting, it may be best for certain border regions to organize for a restoration of constitutional democracy should the national assembly call upon the peoples and institutions of Venezuela to defend the constitution against PSUV.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2016 01:21

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Chuck Boone posted:

Ha! That's a great idea actually. I do know that some MUD deputies are already speaking out against it, but we'll see where the debate ends up. I think they have until Friday to make a decision.

Once they approve it, its never going away.

It's your Enabling Act.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2016 21:02

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Spacewolf posted:

For those of us watching from the US...What's the age of consent in Venezuela? Like yeah, this is creepy (central bank president dating a 16 year old), but is it also illegal?

It's scummy as hell and shows the sort of entitled attitudes of those who appointed that minister.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2016 22:07

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

El Hefe posted:

Underage prostitution, teen pregnancies and older men dating teens are all a huge problem in this country, I've met some guys who don't even try to hide it and boast about that "sweet 15 year old pussy" they are loving and no one bats an eye.

Iirc we have the biggest rate of teen pregnancies in the Americas and it's only going to increase with how expensive condoms are.

Maybe, uh, you guys should look into figuring out some sustainable funding streams for your nonprofit sector which address the issue? Explosive, uncontrolled population growth has brought down many a developing nation with far more wealth and diversified economic bases than Venezuela before. More people is all well and good when you're a nation with stable state institutions and an internationally competitive labor market, two attributes which Venezuela does not strike me as possessing in the least bit.

Christ, does a nonprofit sector even exist in Venezuela? I assume that there's still the catholic church, and that the church owns land and properties throughout venezuela tax-free, hopefully. Maybe that's one of the strengths of the Venezuelan economy that has survived PSUV autocracy and mismanagement, hopefully? Quite a few developing nations have achieved sustainable middle class growth and capitalist classes off the strength of the roman catholic institution.

It's really not all that uncommon, tbqh. I've heard some very horrid stories from my African expatriate friends about "big man" culture in their home nations.

fnox posted:

Apparently a friend of mine is Nelson Merentes' illegitimate son, no joke.

Who's Nelson Merentes?

# ¿ Jan 18, 2016 23:17

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

AstraSage posted:

He's the Current President of the BCV (Venezuela's Central Bank, aka. the base of our entire economy).

The dude who thinks inflation isn't real?

Heh. I think there's some potential humor in that situation. Are there any good Venezuelan comedy shows that routinely get English dubs?

# ¿ Jan 19, 2016 01:55

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Venezuela is bankrupt and cannot afford useless entitlement spending like housing subsidies. How much does toilet paper cost in Venezuela these days if you want it within half an hour?

# ¿ Jan 30, 2016 20:46

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Chuck Boone posted:

I actually wasn't at all aware with the "Right to Buy" policy in the UK, so thank you both for bringing it up! There are definitely lots of interesting parallels to think about.

I've yet to see any details on the final draft of the law (if one exists yet). I'm not 100% familiar with Venezuelan legislative procedure, but I believe that what was approved was the proposal for the law, not the law itself. I could be completely wrong about this, but as far as I know the approved proposal is now sitting in a committee somewhere awaiting its fate.

The PSUV are continuing to act like a gang of 10-year-old thugs, as the Minister of Housing and Habitat (responsible for Mision Vivienda) said yesterday that his office would no longer be providing figures to the National Assembly. Here's the clip with his comments, and my translation below (if you want to skip over his rambling fever dream, he makes the comment at the very end): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAOPt60x-s8

In response to the minister's refusal to provide the metrics necessary for evaluating department funding, it should be necessary for the National Assembly to de-authorize funding of the minister's department until such data is made available.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 22:49

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

fnox posted:

The National Assembly can remove ministers with a vote of censure. It sadly will do nothing as Maduro can legit always find worse ministers to occupy their jobs, and the National Assembly can't bother firing all of them, so I can only assume they wait until a minister does something really loving illegal until they go for that option.

You can always fire all of them. This is why we have nomination processes in America and require Congressional approval for appointments to move forward.

Your national assembly just needs to find a good process for slowing executive ability to appoint individuals for positions without legislative approval.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2016 07:03

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Chuck Boone posted:

The Minister of Finance and the heads of the Banco Central de Venezuela and the body that oversees currency exchange (CENCOEX) were supposed to speak at the National Assembly today but they've just announced that they won't be able to make it because running away from your responsibilities is the best way to solve your problems.

It's kind of crazy that Caracas only has one morgue (Bello Monte). I can't imagine what it looks like inside when you've got ~400 murders a month.

I don't know. The fact that Maduro and the "Inflation exists only in our minds" crew are in power makes me think that they'll try to spin a default as a victory against parasitic capitalist usury and a victory for the revolution and Bolivar's legacy.

Lorenzo Mendoza, the head of Polar (the largest private food producer in the country) said yesterday that the government really needed to get serious about not driving the country off the cliff, including looking at financing options from international organizations. This is completely incompatible with PSUV rhetoric, though, so it's really hard for me to see it happening.

Now's the time to leave Venezuela while you've still got the chance.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2016 18:50

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

El Hefe posted:

None of the other's oil producing countries economies collapsed immediately after the price drop though.

Nigeria.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2016 06:55

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

El Hefe posted:

Nigeria also has Boko Haram to deal with so at least they have that excuse

Frankly, I'm surprised nobody's organized a sepratist group or insurgency against PSUV yet. You'd think that some border regions would want to break away and be able to use toilet paper, at least.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2016 07:12

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

I think the only way out of this is watching PSUV begin to use starvation as a tool to achieve political ends.

Unfortunately, I get the feeling that when Venezuela collapses, America will see a wave of migrants just as Europe is seeing one from Syria.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2016 01:23

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

El Hefe posted:

720% predicted inflation rate this year

I'm spending all of my money on food these days, it's insanely expensive, I have no idea what people earning minimum wage are eating, going to the store just to buy some bread, ham and cheese to have for dinner can easily cost you Bs. 2500 which is about a quarter of what people earn in a month.

There is no hope for Venezuela so long as PSUV is allowed to dominate government. Rally your friends, family, and acquiaintanced to and take action action PSUV before you die in the street of hunger.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 05:09

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Venezuelan fiscal policy question: What are the currency requirements for Venezuelan creditors? Are they forced to accept purchasing oil in bolivars are the official exchange rate? Does Venezuela only pay its foreign creditors in bolivars exchangable at the official exchange rate?

What I'm wondering is, at what price does it become more profitable to not purchase Venezuelan oil due to Maduro's hosed up economic policies.

# ¿ Feb 16, 2016 23:21

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Labradoodle posted:

Diosdado and Allup are closing the debate one after the other, right now. I'm getting some popcorn for the beatdown Allup's gonna lay down.

Update: Diosdado just clearly said "You can do whatever you want here, we're not going to execute any Amnesty Law" and then went on to say there wouldn't be any pardons for murderers and drug dealers, the irony.

Godamn, Allup is doing some catharsis on the stand. He's called some government deputies ignorants to their face and called them out on the groups amongst the military and the PSUV which are fighting each other for the power. The Amnesty Law just got approved as well, so now it's a question of how long until the Supreme Court conjures up some bogus reason to block it.

You know, I'm beginning to think the only hope for Venezuela is a Republican President. The current one is too unwilling to intervene in foreign affairs to support the cause of democratic institutional development, whereas a GOP administration would recognize PSUV for what it is.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2016 03:13

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

fnox posted:

Every single party currently in Venezuela is at the very least, more economically leftist than the Democrats. There is, I believe just one neoliberal party, "Vente Venezuela", and it's a very minor faction in the MUD, despite what the government may say. I personally don't believe that a neoliberal economic policy would aid Venezuela at this time, considering just how poor it has become, not all regulations need to go, and not all can be undone right away. The whole currency control deal needs to be slowly and surgically removed to avoid throwing the economy into further chaos. A new Venezuelan government would have to recognize the noticeable deficiencies that the country has structurally, in terms of both infrastructure and institutions, and realize that we can no longer trust the government with all the things it currently has.

In other news, there are strong rumors that the infighting within PSUV is starting to really pressure Maduro into quitting. It's further amplified by the fact that Aristobulo Isturiz is the current vice-president, and he is arguably one of the few PSUVistas with some idea on how to run a government (it's no wonder either, he was originally from AD, Henry Ramos Allup's party). I wouldn't be surprised if Maduro is no longer president by March.

Bonus, here's Ramos Allup's ending speech from today's ordinary session (with the Pope in the picture-in-picture for some reason): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvpIUvVYtB0

It's not the 90's any more, we don't need any free trade with Venezuela. What would be of concern to policymakers is the eventual collapse of your government and the civil war which follows, should your nation continue down its current path. As has been seen from Syria, civil wars start mass migrations waves, and the last thing America needs is millions of refugees fleeing across our southern border from your failed state.

That's why I'd trust the GOP to intervene in Venezuela more than I do Obama, because if there's one thing Republicans care about more than foreign economic policy friendly to US interests, its enforcing immigration policy.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2016 07:22

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Chuck Boone posted:

Maduro has been talking all afternoon, and he's just announced that gasoline prices are going up. 95 octane will cost Bs. 6 per liter, and 91 octane (what most people pump) will cost Bs. 1 per liter.

To give you some context: my cousin has a 2010 Toyota Corolla. He used to pay Bs. 5 to fill up his tank with the 95 octane gas. Now it'll probably cost him about Bs. 500.

In other words: it's a significant increase.

Still not significant enough, and still implemented far, far later than it should have been.

Do your politicians not understand the concept of "signaling"? Before any significant policy shifts are made in America, we spend one to twelve news cycles debating will-they won't-they. It seems in Venezuela, nobody knows what the hell is going on until after it's done.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2016 23:26

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

I love that the abreviation for your currency is Bs. It's certainly living up to its name.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2016 17:01

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Borneo Jimmy posted:

What joke? I think well all can agree it's good that protesters are striking back at companies engaged in criminal activities and I hope we see more direct action of this kind.

Taking truck drivers hostage and stealing their cargo isn't revolutionary, Jimmy: its communist.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2016 03:07

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

JeffersonClay posted:

Borneo Jimmy also thought people turning to subsistence farming was a good sign (its's collective!) Once the revolutionary tribunals have liquidated all the Kulaks, prosperity will return.

Small-scale farming can be used to supplement food provision in a population of povert. What small-scale farming cannot do is meet the caloric demand of dense urban centers; while it may be able to meet caloric demand on the margins, such as for "organic" produce, it in no way can meet the baseline caloric needs of Venezuela's urban populations.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2016 03:11

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

fnox posted:

Why would they hoard food? They don't control the prices, and they are the sole producer of corn flour, a fundamental foodstuff of the country's dietary plan, because government owned companies that supposedly manufacture corn flour don't actually produce anything. I want you to find testimony of one loving Venezuelan buying corn flour that isn't branded "Harina PAN", AKA the kind that Polar produces.

How come the food just happens to run out right now during Maduro's presidency when there was plenty back then when nothing was intervened and regulated?

What about the loving medicines, Borneo Jimmy, you're gonna tell me that the pharmacies are hiding them just so people loving die?

Jimmy doesn't understand the concept of food reserves, and thinks that the granaries of Venezuela should be emptied to alleviate pressure on Maduro's popularity.

Little does Jimmy know, the granaries have already been expropriated; all which stands between Venezuela and Holodomor is one below-average season.

Not to worry, though! You can still que up for hours in the barrios for a free flatscreen TV! Because lord knows, when the bread runs out, a flatscreen TV will be so very handy as a unit of exchange.

Normally, America would not allow your nation to starve itself, as peace, development, human rights, corn exports, and global security are the five core pillars American foreign policy. Unfortunately for Venezuela, it's an election year with majorities in two and a half branches of government currently at stake. Who the gently caress would risk the other party capturing the Executive and Judicial branches, in addition to a Senate majority, just for the sake of a bunch of Latin American socialists who refused to listen to us when we told them that their policies were going to result in everything we see in Venezuela today?

My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Feb 22, 2016

# ¿ Feb 22, 2016 04:30

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

-Troika- posted:

Hey Borneo Jimmy I'm calling you out. Suppose everything you claim is true and there is actually a CIA backed conspiracy to out the PSUV, place them all in FEMA death camps, gas them with chemtrails, and replace them with a puppet US government.

How would that actually be any worse than the government Venezuela has now?

Because Venezuelans would all begin to have diets like Americans, with the evil of corn syrup putting Venezuelans at increased risk for development of T2DM and a wide range of other chronic illness, let alone the thousands of deaths which would result within days from the population's development of fluid and electrolyte disorders, especially hypophosphatemia, along with neurologic, pulmonary, cardiac, neuromuscular, and hematologic complications.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2016 04:39

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

-Troika- posted:

Well, we can totally treat those with homeopathic remedies, maaaan.

Until those are all consumed

at which point mudfarming, especially in highly populated urban centers, becomes a gainful economic activity. Before Borneo Jimmy calls it racist foreign officer propaganda which has no basis in fact, it's happened elsewhere in Latin America and is the path which Venezuela appears headed down.

If PSUV was for mud farming, I'm certain Borneo Jimmy would decry those who make wood soup as lacking in sufficient revolutionary zeal.

My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Feb 22, 2016

# ¿ Feb 22, 2016 04:59

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

El Hefe posted:

Latest numbers say 89.7% of Venezuelans don't have money to buy enough food for the month...

Some posters may think I was being ironic, or even a troll, when I suggested that Venezuela was on the path to becoming the second failed state in Latin America dependent upon mud farming to meet its populations' daily caloric needs.

I was not. If Venezuela's population does not change the path the nation is on, it will become a failed state at a time when our President is too thoughtful to take action and when inaction will result in a wave of support for the Trumpwall.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2016 02:16

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# ¿ May 6, 2024 09:24

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Saladman posted:

What is mud farming? I Googled it and nothing turned up that makes sense in this context (one seems to mean "highway robbery" and the other seems to mean some sort of mineral extraction from the soil).

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/01/080130-AP-haiti-eatin_2.html

quote:

Carrying buckets of dirt and water up ladders to the roof of the former prison for which the slum is named, they strain out rocks and clumps on a sheet, and stir in shortening and salt. Then they pat the mixture into mud cookies and leave them to dry under the scorching sun.

Mud farming is the process by which mud cookies are made. Yes, there are regions of the world so poor without any food distribution capacity that individuals eat mus to survive. Yes, Venezuela is heading down the path of becoming the Haiti of South America.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2016 09:10

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Venezuela: The Empanada Summit

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