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TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Pakled posted:

It didn't have a direct affect on the country, but it did have an affect on immigration. If the ruling party is moralist, minority religions are more likely to emigrate, and pops are more likely to choose provinces that share their religion as migration targets.

Sure, though the effect is minor at best (a 0.1 factor change compared to say, a -0.3 factor change if the state has any factories), but it still might as well just not exist for all it does.

Like, yeah, pops that are, say, in favor of Pluralism, will vote for Pluralist parties, but as far as the game is concerned, Pluralism, Secularism and Atheism are all functionally identical, which still confuses me as to whether this was intended or if they just ran out of time to add something to religion.

Really, I have no point here beyond "man, religion in Vicky 2 seemed really pointless" and just really felt like posting that snippet out of issues.txt because it amuses me.

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TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Raskolnikov38 posted:

i need a link right now

Here you go.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

HPM originated from 4chan's grand strategy general thread. That's your answer for "why does the genocide decision exist if it seems to be actively detrimental on top of being, you know, genocide".

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

I mean, Paradox games can very easily have a good amount of empty time going on. Waiting for stuff to happen as an OPM in EU, single province count in CK, or uncivilized nation in Vicky. Or having to sit around waiting because your HoI4 endgame war has developed into a total slog in hellish terrain and the game is lagging because it always slows down during endgame, or because you're in the earlygame where you're just waiting for focuses and research to finish while you build factories or something.

I have some sort of video going on in the background a lot of the time when I'm playing HoI4.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Gort posted:

I'm guessing the idea was "We don't want any discussion of that sort of thing, delete the whole discussion and probe everyone in it" but it sounds like it should've been the instigator who got the probe, not the respondent too

Paradox forums seem to make it quite clear that their modding strategy is "nuke it all from orbit" when it comes to war crimes or anything that would imply civilian casualties.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Drone posted:

Didn't they release some analytics that says Germany is, to a frankly embarrassing degree, the most-played nation by a longshot? Something like 50% of all HOI games or something ridiculous?

Vivid memories of PDXCon 2019 and walking through the HOI area to find nearly everyone was playing... Germany. Again. I think the then-current DLC was Waking the Tiger?

This is from a news post released shortly after the Bosporus DLC release.

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/394360/view/2943625250046734388 posted:

For starters, we are seeing a big increase in people playing the new countries that is not at all surprising. After release, Germany still leads the list of most-played countries, but it’s overall margin has shrunk quite a bit over the years. After the game’s initial release, some 40% of games were played as Germany, now it is less than 20%. In second place is, unsurprisingly, Turkey with 16%, followed by Greece at just under 10% and the Soviet Union at 7.4 %. Bulgaria comes in a hair below it at 7% of total games played.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Just as a side note, I'm pretty sure events going "Hello I see you are playing Germany please click this event to confirm that you are doing the genocides and all such" and "Hello I see you are still playing Germany please let me give you an update on all the genocides you're doing: Yep, still doing genocides" would get the game super hyper mega banned in Germany in an instant, even if it were to be removed in the German version. I presume it's been hard enough getting "play as the Nazis" past the authorities, so I very highly doubt the idea of "Hello we want to continue selling this game that in other regions shows the player how they are doing the genocides by playing" is going to fly.

Also, Paradox balks at the basic idea of civilian casualties of war even existing as far as HoI4 is concerned.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

I'm an ashkenazi jew, so I'm biased and going to remain so until I'm dead myself, but what's weird in HoI is that it doesn't shy away at all from depicting the USSR doing mass murders, apartheid South Africa, Nanjing, etc but god forbid depict the nazis as anything bad.

Just to repeat myself from earlier in the thread, you can display the USSR doing mass murders and still sell the game in Russia. You can display apartheid South Africa and sell the game in South Africa. You can display Nanjing and still sell the game in Japan. I'm not convinced you can have the Holocaust in game as a thing Germany, and by extension therefore the player, is doing and still sell the game in Germany.

In Wolfenstein recently, the developers had to censor all mentions of Jews from the game in the German censored version, so now not-Hitler was just killing "traitors". And this was in a situation where it's about depicting what the villain of the game is doing, not the ostensible protagonist by way of being player controlled.

Like, others may disagree, but I can absolutely see a large shitstorm getting loose in Germany over Paradox turning HoI4 into "the game where you do the Holocaust" in public perception, even if all the events that display those events were outright cut from the German version, and that is a headache I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

Especially given that Paradox is clearly already tightrope walking along German authorities' ideas of what is off limits with the current censoring, which has Shadow Realm Hitler (alongside Himmler, Göring, Goebbels and Heß), censoring multiple event pictures to remove those aforementioned five, removing the SS skull insignias from portraits (I suppose the swastikas are one step too far in general and so they're not even in the uncensored version, but SS insignia are not?), and editing event texts to make them less fascist, like so:

Uncensored posted:

political.7.d:0 "'The [Root.GetAdjective] people have a noble history, a history they've been made to forget under the weak and cowardly rule of [Root.GetRulingParty]! They claim to represent the people, but can so feeble a state enforce the will of the people? Only by spilling the blood of these traitors can we fulfill our destiny!'\n\nThe fascist speakers in [Root.GetName] have made no secret of what they think of our current rulership and political system. Speeches like these have tapped into a public dissent that is particularly pronounced in the more conservative sections of the military."

political.8.d:0 "Several high-ranking members of the [Root.GetAdjective] military have expressed support, some privately and some openly, for the Fascist movement in [Root.GetName]. They feel the [Root.GetRulingParty] has forgotten how important discipline and patriotism is to keeping the country together, and are increasingly annoyed by the army being treated by the government as more of a tool than a one of the nation's most important institutions. Some of them go as far as to suggest that a new government is needed, one that knows how to lead [Root.GetName] with strength and tradition into the next half of the century.\n\nThis faction may not predominantly be politicians, but some of them have gained positions in the department of defense. If these developments continue, they may have sufficient political support to execute a coup."

political.10.d:0 "While the attempts of the fascist movement to revitalize the people's pride in their nation have seen some success, the resistance against these ideas remains high. The generals plotting to overthrow the current administration are disappointed in the lack of confidence the [Root.GetAdjective] population themselves seem to have in [Root.GetAdjective] superiority.\n\nThey remain certain that the people will eventually tire of [Root.GetLeader]'s lies, but are divided on what course of action to take. Some call for a coup to be executed now, before [Root.GetName]'s enemies takes advantage of its weakness. However, doing so while public support is limited would plunge the nation into civil war. Greatness can scarcely be achieved without spilling blood, but the blood of our countrymen, even traitors to the cause, is precious."

Censored posted:

political.7.d:1 "'The [Root.GetAdjective] people have been subjected too long to the incompetent rule of [Root.GetRulingParty]! They claim to represent the people, but fail to even keep our streets in order! Only by removing them from power can we make this nation grow!'\n\nThe fascist speakers in [Root.GetName] have made no secret of what they think of our current rulership and political system. Speeches like these have tapped into a public dissent that is particularly pronounced in the more conservative sections of the military."

political.8.d:1 "Several high-ranking members of the [Root.GetAdjective] military have expressed support, some privately and some openly, for the Fascist movement in [Root.GetName]. They feel the [Root.GetRulingParty] has forgotten how important force of arms is to keeping the country together, and are increasingly annoyed by the army being treated by the government as more of a tool than a one of the nation's most important institutions. Some of them go as far as to suggest that a new government is needed, one that knows how to lead [Root.GetName] into the next half of the century.\n\nThis faction may not predominantly be politicians, but some of them have gained positions in the department of defense. If these developments continue, they may have sufficient political support to execute a coup."

political.10.d:1 "While the attempts of the fascist movement to revive nationalistic sentiment have seen some success, the resistance against these ideas remains high. The generals plotting to overthrow the current administration are disappointed in the lack of confidence the [Root.GetAdjective] population themselves seem to have in [Root.GetFascistParty].\n\nThey remain certain that the people will eventually tire of [Root.GetLeader], but are divided on what course of action to take. Some call for a coup to be executed now, before [Root.GetName]'s enemies take action. However, doing so while public support is limited would plunge the nation into civil war."

I will blame Paradox for a lot of things. Not wanting to open this particular can of worms and just punting on the whole matter is not one of them. Especially since I'm pretty sure there's quite a market for HoI4 in Germany, given a certain predisposition towards Wehraboos here. As far as I'm concerned, this is a business decision because of a situation that is beyond an individual company to change.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

gradenko_2000 posted:

in which case, how did you "develop" provinces?

Building buildings with ducats. Pretty much everything that changed the "effectiveness" of provinces was a building. There were admin buildings, military buildings, economy buildings - and those had levels, so you could build a level 1 military building, then you unlock the level 2 military building with tech, which is better but more expensive and requires the level 1 building, and that goes on until about level 6 I think?

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Even if there are probably some that would argue as to the quality between HoI3 and HoI4, I don't think there'd be much argument that HoI3 is, like, the worst game to try and get into. You'd go through many, many headaches to get anywhere, and very few people can actually help.

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TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Gort posted:

The AI's dumb as bricks (especially how it designs vehicles and everything it does at sea) so you don't have to be that good to win.

Yeah, that's the fun part about HoI4 - when you get right down to it, there's a lot of simple rules and concepts you can follow and be just fine in most situations.

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