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Cryophage posted:
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Oct 13, 2015 01:45
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This was very much what I had in mind!
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Oct 13, 2015 04:57
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The Mentalizer posted:Yeah, it's the sleeve thing that led me to assume she had multiple arms. But she is a blue devil after all, so who's to say she can't just call 'em up when she needs 'em. The Mentalizer posted:Since you took that one do you mind if I take the other one?
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Oct 13, 2015 15:07
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So this ended up a lot longer and a lot more twisty than I thought it would, but I think it holds together. The core question in figuring out this talk of different kinds of reincarnation is what the number in angelic names is counting. I suspect it's physical incarnations, since this would play to the nature of the Angels we've so far met. So 82 White Chain Born in Emptiness Returns to Subdue Evil would indicate an 82nd physical incarnation, an 82nd body, that houses the spiritual being White Chain Born in Emptiness Returns to Subdue Evil. Similarly, we'd have the 6th physical incarnation of Juggernaut Star Scours the Universe, and the 2nd physical incarnation of Michael. It would make sense - White Chain is a peace keeper who gets into a lot of fights. Michael and Juggernaut are political leaders who stay behind the scenes. Juggernaut is a bit more of a warrior leader, so there's the 6. Michael, meanwhile, is clearly holding onto a very old and damaged body. But there's another part of angelic names, which is for most angels descriptive. The difference in that part - specifically, in the length - might tie into the nature of spiritual death and reincarnation that Liminal Blossom Punctures the Heart of the Unrepentant, Deliciously is faced with. I used the full name here because it illustrates the assumption I'm about to make. Michael has one part to his descriptive name. For all of the other angels, that part of their name can be broken down into components. I suspect the number of components for each name indicates the number of spiritual reincarnations (or long reincarnations). For White Chain, it could be as many as seven, counting every word (attaching prepositions and articles to the following word, which would make more sense in a name), or perhaps as few as three (White Chain, Born in Emptiness, Returns to Subdue Evil). Juggernaut Star Scours the Universe is thus either four or or two. Liminal Blossom Punctures the Heart of the Unrepentant, Deliciously looks to be six or four. So 2 Michael is insanely old in all forms. Only their second physical incarnation, and their original spiritual incarnation, which would justify the claim as being the only remaining Prime. This syncs up with what we've been told by 2 Michael and by 6 Juggernaut about the Angel's origin and Zoss' conquest. Zoss was the first to kill an angel in the Void, with only Michael surviving of the original angels and gaining a new physical incarnation. The rest of the original angels, however, were slain and underwent long reincarnations. Had we met White Chain Born into Emptiness Returns to Subdue Evil earlier in their existence, we might have known them as simply White Chain Born into Emptiness. The reason why the physical reincarnation numbers only seem to appear after Zoss' conquest, but then iterate pretty quickly thereafter, stems from the source of the armor (physical bodies). When they were 1 Michael, they had a body crafted by Koss and Aesma, which can reasonably be assumed to have been very powerful. All subsequent bodies, though, were constructed by increasingly less powerful beings, and thus were less durable. So what we've got going on now is that 6 Juggernaut is going to kill Delicious in the void and force a long reincarnation onto her. When she comes back again, she'll be something like Liminal Blossom Punctures the Heart of the Unrepentant, Deliciously Fearsome. What's implied is that returning from a long reincarnation, the new angel won't have the memories of their previous spiritual self. The rest of what's going on is crazy angel philosophy/politics. It's pretty clear that the physical form an angel inhabits has an effect on their spiritual nature. Michael's faction wants to stick with a non-gendered spiritual form, but their bodies, crafted mostly by humans, tend to imprint a gendered nature onto their spirits. Delicious seems to be part of a group (though not apparently an organized one) that embraces that change. The New Flesh. The Thorns seem to be an extremist version of Michael's view point, that embrace the notion of purity and inhabit bodies that pare away anything resembling flesh and put that ideal ahead of the Law and the compact that Michael still embraces, as much as he may dislike it. That would explain why the Thorns aren't rebels - Michael views them as fanatics but not heretics. But we know now, from what 6 Juggernaut has told White Chain and their current actions, that the reality is much worse. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 23, 2015 18:04
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Cio forever. I love how much dynamism these panels have. They're just sitting at the table talking and/or picking out liquors, but the angles and perspective, the framing, creates an impression of motion and danger. The composition really enhances and supports the already impressive art.
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Nov 5, 2015 18:32
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Mile'ionaha posted:Am I the only one that thinks it would be fun to divvy up the parts and try to edit together an musical number? I'd be up for it, but I can't carry a tune in a bucket.
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Nov 24, 2015 04:13
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The retroactive page really doesn't give much away. There's nothing in what's said about Angels that would imply White Chain's "death" a few pages later isn't a big deal, for example. Being expelled from Throne could easily be taken as they were physically tossed out, like a bouncer ejecting someone from a bar. None of it really undercuts the shock of later events, and it leaves a lot unsaid. It's the most basic in-universe explanation of Angels and Demons. There's nothing about banishment, about the angelic cycle of rebirth. Nothing about the color ranks of demons, etc. It only seems to give away the farm because we know the broader implications of what White Chain is talking about from later in the comic. I still don't personally care for it, since its relating information that obviously can be figured out from other places in the comic. It's hardly the first exposition heavy passage in the comic though. The only reason I find this one a bit bleh is that the other ones dropped information we wouldn't have known otherwise. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jan 30, 2016 |
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Jan 30, 2016 05:52
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I wrote a probably overlong post about what I think is going on with Angel names and reincarnation. With the crop of additional Angels just introduced, I think it still fits. The numbers don't seem to correspond with their strength or age given the text, but the name lengths do.
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Feb 2, 2016 19:32
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NecroMonster posted:We've seen 82 White Chains body destroyed, forcing her out, and subsequently repaired by a human, allowing her back, and the number of her incarnation did not change. Her material state (liquid) and her name also didn't change. Yeah, I think it takes death in the Void to lead to a reset of the material state and a name change. Destruction of a shell just forces an angel back into the Void. I'd bet that White Chain is still bound to that shell until and unless someone makes a new one for her and goes through some kind of binding ritual to connect her to it (at which point she'd become 83 White Chain). It would fit with the info from the retroactive page and some exposition we've had, mostly from 2 Michael. The number as shell count idea assumes it won't iterate until that new binding occurs. When White Chain took a needle through the eye, it forced her out of her shell, but didn't damage the shell badly enough that she couldn't re-enter it once Alison took the needle out. The much bigger spike they hammered into that shell, though, probably destroyed it. At a minimum it'd take serious repair before White Chain could return to it. Thus, her state being referred to as banishment and the offer of a new body to end it. paranoid randroid posted:brb guys gotta make a call *stabs self through eye* As for Angel's ability to return to the void, I'd say the evidence points to it being a voluntary thing. At will, or at least not requiring a great effort. The risk would be that, if you weren't sure your body was in a safe spot, someone could wreck it and banish you. However... even if the spikes are needed to force an Angel back into the Void, that doesn't mean they need Humans to get them back out. We've obviously seen Angels handling them without any trouble. I'd wager Cio didn't pull it because the spikes are harmful to Devils. Or, rather, harmful to any spirit of the void. It would fit with the way we've seen the spikes work. Angels are Flame within a hard shell - the spike has to penetrate that shell before it can harm the spirit within. Humans (and presumably Servants) can touch it because they are corporeal creatures. Devils, though, as incarnate spirits without protection would be extremely vulnerable to the things.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:18
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Parts Kit posted:Probably because they are gigantic pricks. The gods of Throne make the Greek Pantheon seem reasonable, compassionate, even-keeled, and prudish.
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Feb 25, 2016 05:43
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Catching up with the discussion about "The Road Not Taken," it's actually the prequel to another short story, "Herbig-Haro." Take the two together and its more analogy about colonialism & imperialism than anything, though one rather sympathetic to the imperialists. Speaking of which, there's an analogy from the Age of Discovery that applies pretty well to K6BD. In our own history, the Pope at one point divided all lands outside of Christendom not already claimed between Portugal and Spain. This explicitly included as yet undiscovered non-Christian lands that they hadn't gotten around to finding and conquering yet. I figure a similar situation applies with the demiurges' realms in K6BD. Mottom's ravaged the worlds she's conquered because its easier (for her at least) to suck a world dry before going looking for more to exploit, not because there's actually any resource scarcity. And she's got a big enough realm that there's plenty of untapped worlds out there. Hell, her realm might be big enough to do crop rotation. Once she uses up a set of worlds, she moves on the next ones. And by the time she gets back to the first set, they've had time to rebuild - at least to a level that is worth ravaging. Yeah, in theory Mottom could get even more wealth and power with more careful husbanding of her realm. But she's already got overwhelming power and countless wealth, so why bother? Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Mar 8, 2016 |
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Mar 7, 2016 17:41
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ConfusedUs posted:I bet whatever happens, it'll be metal as gently caress. No bet. You couldn't give me odds high enough to take the other side without inventing a entire new form of math for extremely large numbers.
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Mar 10, 2016 04:55
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Gnome de plume posted:Beset move would be to make like a Pryan Sor and get outta there. She just turned a dude into a tree by waving her hand, repotting is probably not going to be an issue.
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Mar 13, 2016 01:12
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The more we see of Mottom, the less I feel her Gluttony represents literally eating things. It seems more like conspicuous consumption turned up to 11. This banquet, for example - most of it just gets thrown out suspect. A lot of those dishes are made so one bite can be taken. That is to say... Anyone who's baked knows any recipe with eggs can only be scaled back so far. You're gonna use at least one egg. So if you only want one cookie, you either find someone else to give the rest to or don't bother. Mottom, though, has them bake the full batch just so she can have that one cookie.
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Apr 4, 2016 19:17
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The Ayshkerbundy posted:Well some of the dishes look like they're made from Servants and those are people. Oxxidation posted:Yeah, for all of Mottom's excess on display, we've only seen her take one bite of food in all her time in the comic. Her gluttony stems from her relentless accumulation of wealth, without any care or thought given to the wealth itself - all that matters is that she has all these things, and other people don't. Like with the world below her palace, where she took a liking to the fruit, and then made it so that no one but herself could ever have it again. For a non-food example, look at all those pillows she rests on. I bet she doesn't use the same ones each day. I bet they all get thrown out at the end of the day - maybe even more often than that. Mottom always sits on fresh, new, never before used pillows. Pillows a couple thousand slaves are hand-making from silk, constantly, just to keep up. And then you've got thousands of other slaves making dye. Or digging up gold so new cutlery can be forged for every meal. I think she does consume all those slaves. Not literally. But she consumes them because her mode of existence is hugely wasteful. It takes the effort of entire nations just to keep her in new furniture, because she doesn't deign to use any piece more than once. And yeah sewing a pillow is just going to be boring, but the dyers? The lumberjacks who cut down forests to make her a new bedroom set every night, the miners constantly digging up new ore for her utensils? That's got to have a pretty high mortality rate. So yeah, she uses up people as profligately as she uses up anything else, like the food at this banquet.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:57
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Renaissance Robot posted:Jake Wyatt and Training Montage remain my favourites. Agreed, but Aspirant, The Thief, and Pursued 1 are pretty good too.
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Apr 7, 2016 00:03
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atomicthumbs posted:what's wrong with mottom's parrot Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Apr 23, 2016 |
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Apr 23, 2016 04:22
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Comic link for convenience. That panel with her holding the fruit and offering eternal life has some Snow White vibes to it. Also, I'm sort of hoping Mottom and her husband have a relationship that's just totally normal and supportive. Like Avasarala and her spouse in The Expanse, if you're familiar with that series.
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Apr 27, 2016 16:43
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A.o.D. posted:The demi urges are the worst possible sort of gods. Even existing in a universe with Lovecraftian deities would be preferable because at least they don't care and are beyond ego or morality. These jerks are like the Greek gods, except they're always on their worst behavior.
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May 3, 2016 14:27
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6 Juggernaut Star does everything in epic fashion. He's a heavy metal album cover come to life, he knows it, and goddamn if he isn't going milk that for all its worth.
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May 8, 2016 06:52
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idonotlikepeas posted:* I assumed this was Zoss when she said it. I still think that's the most likely candidate. But... maybe she's also thinking about Jagganoth. Also I wonder if Allison is meant to literally kill the demiurges. The story has already played with euphemism and double meanings in prophecy, so...
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May 31, 2016 02:14
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Allison has no idea what she's doing, but goddamn she is going to try and do something. I can't wait.
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Jun 22, 2016 05:55
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Mr. Lobe posted:I expect even with the magical bullshit in her head, Allison is still a lot weaker than Mottom. I hope Mottom doesn't go all crazy on her for daring to strike her. I'm not sure if Mottom is mad so much as shocked. Whether she gets mad I think depends on what Allison does next. If Allison keeps pushing forward fast enough, she might be able to drag Mottom along with her.
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Jun 22, 2016 06:17
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Green Intern posted:Mottom's guards look like they're straight out of Nausicca, and that's alright with me.
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Jul 18, 2016 17:35
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Slashrat posted:Looked more like the cut also deflected the bullet off to the side and over her shoulder. I think the cabinet is supposed to be directly behind her. The perspective is just a bit odd because of the shape of the panel etc.
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Jul 23, 2016 17:35
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I guess this is sort of a power level question, but it's not so much about rankings or specific comparison, just a general sense of when to expect poo poo to really hit the fan. You've said in the past that Jagganoth is more powerful than any other single demiurge, but not as powerful as all the other demiurges put together. I imagine Allison taking out Mottom raises the specter of chaos, but doesn't change the equation too drastically - Jagganoth still can't take on the others alone, though the margin isn't as certain. But Allison seems to be on course to go after the others. About when does the scale tips in his favor, if nothing else changes? When half the demiurges fall? More? Less?
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Jul 26, 2016 03:04
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The continuing adventures of Allison's pursuers would be an amazing comic in its own right.
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Jul 28, 2016 05:17
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I love Allison's half smile after she punches out the giant green dude with her tiny little fist.
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Aug 10, 2016 13:02
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Cat Mattress posted:The spearhead has a different, more ornamental, design than the spear that was lodged in White Chain's head. The prior panel doesn't have the spear's details because its trying to show motion.
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Aug 13, 2016 16:42
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I hope everyone still saying it's not White Chain are just trolling because otherwise wow.
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Aug 20, 2016 14:51
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Holy poo poo.
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Aug 31, 2016 02:38
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:he didn't have the brains to do anything but charge headlong into a scrum and assume he'd kick all the asses cause he's Juggernaut Star.
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Sep 1, 2016 08:01
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One brutally cunning, the other cunningly brutal.
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Sep 11, 2016 17:36
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That Juggy, he's all right.
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Sep 11, 2016 23:38
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New page! Cio brought some friends. Also Mottom looks 1000% done with this. I think that's Princess Mamoru Moonshine Jagermeister Jack Jack Daniels Timothy Tim Bill Freddy Mercury Blueberry Luna, Esquire and the girl who's place Allison took as an offering earlier on the ship there. EDIT: The girl's name is Nyave Anyadis of Mykos. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 03:17
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Roland Jones posted:I wonder if that red devil Cio was talking with before is the owner of this ship.
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Sep 24, 2016 03:29
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GunnerJ posted:I can't believe we're supposed to believe this low-rent bullshit is working. I'm never taking any of these immortal sorcerer-monarchs seriously again.
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Sep 24, 2016 03:52
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GunnerJ posted:Yeah, I guess. Kinda like the ending to Willow.
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Sep 24, 2016 04:11
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Clearly both. It is full of lies that illuminate reality far better than the truth.
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Sep 24, 2016 05:38
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The sanctioned action is crop. Seriously, that's amazing.
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Sep 27, 2016 03:46
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