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And how does homesteading and first-use cope with the enclosure movement? Should all commonly held land that was illegitimately taken by force be expropriated and returned to the communities it was taken from?
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Oct 10, 2015 13:53
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quote:I can't believe that you don't think that having to achieve democratic consensus for every single business decision would not slow down decision making and make the market inefficient. In the first place, what would make you think that every employee SHOULD have a say in decisions about how the business should be run? As an employee, you might know how to do a few specific tasks well, but are you going to have any educated idea about how to compete against Microsoft in the market? Which advertisement campaign is market tested and most efficient? That's not actually how syndicalists envision workplace democracies. Managers and positions for people who are entrusted with making quick necessary decisions can be created and voted on as long as they're instantly recallable by the workers.
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Oct 11, 2015 07:57
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QuarkJets posted:Conservatism is nothing if not hypocritical. I wonder if we could get a bunch of would-be conservatives on-board with a bunch of liberal policies and taxation if we just had people sign something before graduating high school or somesuch. "If I choose to join society then I agree to be bound by its rules, otherwise I'm free to leave and go live somewhere else" or something like that Hey Jrode, if I emmigrate to a different country and agree to abide by their laws and pay all taxes as a resident of that country and in return benefit from public services, have I entered into a voluntary contract with the state?
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Oct 12, 2015 01:03
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DarklyDreaming posted:But if I don't sign the contract And it's only not technically the same as a property owner forcing you off their property, because the land was taken by force. Which I suppose brings up the problem of property owners having purchased crown land, as that is clearly stolen land whether prior ownership can be established or not due to the illegitimate nature of the state.
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Oct 12, 2015 03:26
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MEN WITH GUNS
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Sex can be sold as a commodity, discuss Ayn Rand in terms of marginal utility.
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Oct 15, 2015 03:27
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Uhhh, you guys are forgetting that these states prevented reputation agencies from forming. How would the Europeans have known?
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Oct 15, 2015 15:39
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Basically the main topic of polite conversation in an ancom society should be gossiping about your neighbours, because social pressure is the main form of policing behaviour within the system. I suppose it beats the social alienation of capitalism.
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Oct 19, 2015 13:19
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Nessus posted:What happens when a DRO decides to declare that, say, only it is allowed to operate at the Citadel, Gas Town, and the Bullet Farm? Murray Rothbard posted:Of course, some of the private defense agencies will become criminal, just as some people become criminal now. But the point is that in a stateless society there would be no regular, legalized channel for crime and aggression, no government apparatus the control of which provides a secure monopoly for invasion of person and property...To create such an instrument de novo is very difficult, and, indeed, almost impossible; historically, it took State rulers centuries to create a functioning State apparatus." Power vacuums can't exist, because we'll all have a very specific form of amnesia that will require us to reinvent the state.
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Oct 30, 2015 07:43
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LookingGodIntheEye posted:Ironically, the way DRO treats "rogues" sounds like the former USSR's crime of parasitism. With literally none of the benefits though. It's really just more like a feudal society (also with none of the benefits.) Be sure to avert your gaze when the regional manager passes you in the street.
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Oct 30, 2015 08:47
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I just love that all theories of power and coercion that have been advanced in the last century and a half are either ignored or treated as manuals by Libertarians. Social alienation due to having your body and labour time owned by a capitalist? Bah, that's commie rubbish. Rationalisation and over-bearing bureaucracy being impersonal forces that can't be fought leads you to give up resistance? We dislike the state, but maybe we could still preserve this through a complex system of insurance and law enforcement? A feeling of constant surveillance even when not being surveilled? Now that's a model for the free society!
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Oct 30, 2015 09:28
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What's to stop someone from just claiming they're a DRO and printing out their own DRO card? Would there be an over-arching authority for DROs to be accredited, like doctors or teachers? What if you set up your own accreditation service? e:For that matter, who registers doctors or teachers? Who handles stuff like 'working with kids' cards? WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 01:36
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I think you'll find reputation agencies can't have problems with collusion, bribery or force, because there will be competing reputation agencies that report on the reputations of the reputation agencies. 
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Nov 3, 2015 03:34
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So what would happen if you didn't have DRO coverage, were refused service at a shop, so you murdered the shopkeeper and when the DRO goons arrived, you were off the shopkeeper's property and didn't offer any resistance? Technically you would no longer be aggressing against them so self-defence would no longer apply and they have no voluntary agreement with you that would allow them to detain you.
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Nov 3, 2015 11:21
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VitalSigns posted:If someone wants to smoke a cigarette, it doesn't matter if he's bad at long-term thinking, or he has been lied to and relying on false information, or any of those things you said because his desires are completely subjective and you're not in a position to judge them. So how does the NAP deal with second hand smoke?
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Nov 9, 2015 09:09
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jrodefeld posted:I don't know how I could be any more loving clear. Libertarians absolutely, positively and without any reservations oppose all forms of coercive associations of which slavery is the most egregious. Other than the worker-boss hierarchy. Which you claim is voluntary, because economic necessity is not coercive. So what is to stop a situation of economically necessary 'voluntary' slavery arising?
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Nov 19, 2015 11:14
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Pththya-lyi posted:Why are you making all these plans when it's pretty much certain that jrod won't show up? paragon1 posted:Oh come on
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Nov 25, 2015 05:03
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I've never understood the Libertarian obsession in pretending their hypocrisy isn't hypocritical, rather than simply acknowledging their preferred system hasn't been implemented and they still need to function within the current system. It's loving hilarious seeing the excuses they make to pretend it's not the case. I wonder if this and the outlook of sovcits comes from the same place. That if we pretend our bullshit has power, it eventually will. See also:quote:It hurt really bad and I remember yelling "you're breaking the NAP" and things like that. "Stop initiating force against me." Then they kicked me around on the ground in the hallway, before they took my camera and threw me outside. I was crying and stuff, I just sat there. I was in shock because it was so sudden. Looking back there were warning signs though. Though technically, given he was in their building when the force was initiated, it wasn't actually a violation of the NAP.
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Nov 28, 2015 05:35
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VitalSigns posted:Like the right to live in a covenant community where everyone* agrees women are property. Community? Agrees? What is this mob rule? Women are property as long as they're on my property and anyone who says differently is aggressing against me and mine own property. I also own that road you just drove down, should have checked the EULA.
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Dec 3, 2015 08:57
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VitalSigns posted:But then she just has to escape your property and she's home free. Hang on, does this also make trespass not an offence as long as you're not caught in the act?
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Dec 3, 2015 09:21
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I could give a shot at presenting a case for libertarian socialism and you guys can try and pick it apart as brutally as you would libertarian capitalism. 
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Dec 12, 2015 13:42
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mojo1701a posted:Don't libertarians also disagree on the idea of "intellectual property," thereby removing people's incentives for discovering non-tangible things? Another thing they share in common with Marxists.
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Dec 16, 2015 02:42
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YF19pilot posted:I'm probably off base, but in addition to that, isn't the Marxist thought more that trying to make money off a very important idea/patent/invention is basically exploitation, so Marxists want to prevent someone trying to make it rich off an invention that everyone should have access to (basically prevent that rear end in a top hat who was in the news recently about buying a drug company and jacking the prices to something ridiculous like $700/pill). Marxists also believe that all thought and innovation is essentially social; each invention or breakthrough being largely iterative and building off all the knowledge that came before it. So intellectual property is already a communal good, and patents and copyright are essentially the next round of enclosures.
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Dec 16, 2015 04:33
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I think the miscommunication basically started with saying it was an example of libertarians aping communists, when it's not really so much that as much as it is libertarians being huge loving hypocrites and having utterly worthless critiques of communism.
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Dec 20, 2015 17:35
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