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closeted republican posted:He was only opportunist on the Zabis. He fought Amuro head-on multiple times. Nah, he was opportunist in fights as well. He made sure to attack when his enemy was the weakest or couldn't fight back. That isn't dumb but it is entirely his character. He even destroy the battleships at Loum entirely by going for the points where they couldn't attack him back. Char prefers fights where he has the advantage. (This is also something Tomino's novels stress. He actually encourages his allies to shoot Amuro while Amuro is distracted which... they do, just at the one point Char DIDN'T want that.) He loses in CCA because he gets so deep into his Amuro Anger that he absolutely wants to prove he can beat Amuro in a straight fight and he can't. Char doesn't win straight fights. And honestly that is smart. That is how someone should fight, especially against a superior foe. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Oct 30, 2015 |
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Oct 30, 2015 17:55
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closeted republican posted:What some people call opportunism, I call good tactics. It is good tactics! It's just also completely good tactics to blow the gently caress out of a powerful opponent when he's weakened and vulnerable. Frankly it's smarter than, say, sending him an experimental power booster that allows him to complete his new top-of-the-line mobile suit and punch you in the face after murdering half your army. Just as a hypothetical.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:05
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Srice posted:The 2nd Origin episode had a bunch of pretty great character moments, and once again Ramba Ral stole the show. Yeah, that's something I disliked in the original manga too. Some of them make a little sense (Mirai is established as being from a big deal family) but Babby Sayla meeting Babby Amuro is dumb dumb dumb.
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Nov 1, 2015 02:27
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Darth Walrus posted:Yeah, it's basically the Mk.II with extra perks, which essentially makes it the AEUG's second-best suit (unless you count the Dijeh, and we see that thing so little it's hard to tell what its performance is like). The Dijeh is actually kind of crappy. It's a Rick Dias successor with mild upgrades. It actually is armed with borrowed weapons because it wasn't designed with them in mind. The Dijeh SE-R however is supposed to be significantly higher spec.
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Nov 1, 2015 04:19
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The anti-beam coating on Hyaku Shiki is errata enough that you can pretty reasonably pretend it doesn't have it. Even SRW does this sometimes, including one situation where the anti-beam coating is an unlockable upgrade for it instead. It technically exists but it is so worthless it's probably just there as a retroactive explanation for why they have a gold blingsuit.
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Nov 1, 2015 07:22
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closeted republican posted:Speaking of retroactive explanations, no guide has ever tried to explain why the Gouf has a beam sword and the Gelgoog had physical instead of beam blades on its sword in 0079, have they? They have actually. The Gouf doesn't have a beam sword, it has a heat blade that just happens to be animated like a beam sword. (Norris' Gouf doesn't have the energy to heat it up in the infamous battle scene IIRC) Despite the fact it's pretty clearly animated like a beam saber it's just supposed to be a heat blade the entire time. The Gelgoog thing is justified as Char's Gelgoog being an early production type and having a prototype weapon. Later Gelgoogs in the show have the more accurate beam weapons. (That said, I think the movie version fixed both mistakes so you can assume it was just a soft retcon.)
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Nov 1, 2015 07:34
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Just a tangent but has any Gundam ever been 'inconvenienced' by a lack of shield? It always seems that shields in Gundam are one of those 'nice to have but never really need it' thing. I guess my question is actually 'has a shield ever saved someone's rear end in Gundam beyond just being helpful to keep blows away' because I'm drawing a blank. Yes, very frequently actually. There are a ton of "if not for my shield" moments in the original Gundam alone. Since shields are something that can be destroyed and replaced they tend to use them as a way to have the Gundam or similar unit take damage without being actually seriously damaged.
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Nov 2, 2015 01:49
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Kanos posted:Actually since beam shields are almost exactly just shield-shaped beam saber generators I'm pretty confused why nobody thought of the idea until 50 years after mobile suits first hit the field, especially given the insanely fast pace of MS tech development. It wasn't that nobody thought of it (there's at least one MSV with proto-beam shields) but that beam weapons ate through energy like woah, even beam sabers, and so it wasn't actually more effective than a metal shield until they had energy reactors that could keep it up.;
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Nov 2, 2015 06:35
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Omnicrom posted:This is correct, asking for a Zaku I Gas Grenade was the coded message that you wanted to talk with one of the underground informants. The manga doesn't ever give any real indication such a model even existed either. The best Seller was actually Dozle's Zaku II, which was a memorial piece since at that point in continuity Dozle had been Gundam'd. The entire arc of Leopold going to meet Reinhart was really good. Gundam: Plot to etc. was really good. Jesus, that's some absurdly quick plamo creation considering the war ends less than a week after Dozle dies.
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Nov 5, 2015 18:21
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Even in cosplay nobody likes Lightning Gundam
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Nov 8, 2015 20:23
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Caros posted:Build fighters season one. This. If you're really not interested in anything but cool robot fights Build Fighters classic is the way to go.
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Nov 10, 2015 22:56
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Also, IBO. IBO has multiple episodes with no fights and just world development so I don't think that is a good choice.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:33
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Reds posted:Try is the biggest load of garbage, it was painful to watch. I really dislike Try myself but if all you want is fights and don't care about characters or context it might work for you. It doesn't have anywhere as good a fight lineup as BFclassic but it has something.
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Nov 11, 2015 03:52
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Man, you don't have to argue that point to me, I'm just sayin' that if all you want is contextless fights BFT has a dude throwing fire phonixes every episode.
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Nov 11, 2015 04:30
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Lemon Curdistan posted:I agree. I have never hear anyone say the second part. The closest is people (including myself) saying it didn't need a full 52 episode run which I stand by as true and also apply to every other Gundam series.
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Nov 11, 2015 15:56
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tsob posted:Then let me be the first and say that I think G-Reco would have benefited enormously from being a normal 50 odd episode Gundam series, with the proviso that I actually like filler in some cases and Turn-A is my favorite Gundam series, at least partially because it's so slowly (but in my opinion well) paced. I want filler with the characters just putzing around in Towosanga or the Venus Globe so that I can actually get a feel for what life is like in these places and see more than just the absolute bare minimum needed to convey the story. Both of those locations looked amazing, but I have no idea of anything about them beyond the most superficial details because the characters basically went there, talked to someone and hosed off as soon as they were done. Which to me is a problem, because when I see a place that cool looking I want to see it explored a little. There is literally not a single 50-episode Gundam series that doesn't have terrible pacing. Even if G-Reco got an extra 12 (which is already a huge increase over the current lineup) would be more than enough. It would be awful if they had to pad out the series to literally double its length. Almost every Gundam series is more or less able to convey its plot within the running time of 3-4 movies. The ones that don't are more because the movies are poorly produced rather than an inherent lack of running runtime. More episodes are nice to flesh things out or give smaller characters more development for certain but 50+ is absurdly excessive for the plots Gundam tends to tell. The only one I can think of that really used 50 episodes was AGE and... it was AGE and effectively 3 smaller series smushed together. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 16:42
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tsob posted:That's nice. I disagree. I think Turn-A could have actually used a handful more personally, much as I love it, just because I would have liked to see a bit more of Corin's story and more time to do a longer epilogue but don't actually want any of the existing content cut That would have utterly gutted Turn-A's already meandering pacing. That is good if all you want is more of the world but terrible for it as an actual show. Age absolutely didn't need more episodes. It had more than enough episodes it just used them poorly.
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Nov 11, 2015 16:50
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There are good series that are very long but they are series that tend to be pretty different from Gundam. Almost every core Gundam plot is very simple. They have fairly basics arcs and character development and don't tend to have a ton in the way of twists. Adding more episodes for worldbuilding just stretches that out further and the characters don't tend to survive that well. While the Gundam movies tend to miss cool bits of worldbuilding they are better for the character's arcs in a lot of places and the places they're not are nothing to do with pacing. Srice posted:I think a good baseline to consider wrt to worldbuilding and such is that the expanded editions of the LOTR trilogy clock in at a little over 9 hours, so a 50 ep series is over twice that To put it another way: Gundam Age is longer than the entirety of the Harry Potter film franchise.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:21
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tsob posted:I think One Piece makes a really good example here, since the story is quite literally all about the journey. Almost every single person I know who enjoys One Piece says it could have cut quite a lot of stuff and nobody would have missed it. That said One Piece is designed very differently from Gundam series and so it having an ongoing story is not bad because it is designed around it. Gundam series are not designed around ongoing adventure (aside from something like BF which probably could handle it) and the longer you stretch it out the more it impacts the core story.
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Nov 11, 2015 18:42
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Droyer posted:Literally no one has done this, and the gundam thread is not the place for you to air out your psychological issues. Hey now. Gundam is exactly the place to air out psychological issues, as long as you don't mind getting brutally killed afterwards. Still better than Evangelion in that regards though.
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Nov 11, 2015 18:47
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"Filler" is rarely filler. People just seem to not think of characterization or worldbuilding as plot development for some reason.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:03
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Ka0 posted:What was the main reason Gundam was not popular on it's original run? I've reread Gundam Sousei but it just mentions "factors". Was there an oversaturation of robot shows for kids during that time? I think it was just a case of it being weird and taking time to get going and other things getting more attention at the time. Part of Gundam's success was in the older markets and Gundam itself was marketed towards younger audiences with expectations of toy sales. dogsicle posted:there's a Thunderbolt teaser now That is... much jazzier than I was expecting. Though I suppose it makes sense considering. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Nov 13, 2015 |
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Nov 13, 2015 03:55
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Sharkopath posted:Just as an aside: Vifam has really good pacing and constantly moves forward and is 48 episodes There are absolutely shows that can do good at 48-50 episode (or even more), just not Gundam series or at least not so far.
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Nov 13, 2015 18:01
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Droyer posted:A thought just struck me. Isn't it a bit weird Amuro gets fin funnels in CCA? Bits and funnels are thematically very similar to cyber newtypes, taking the hope of humanity (newtypes), and turning them into weapons. It works for Amuro because Amuro doesn't just use them as weapons but as tools to defend. Both literally (the I-Field Barrier) and eventually thematically when he uses the full power of the Nu Gundam to push Axis away from Earth. Amuro became a fully realized Newtype whose powers can be used both to empathize and to protect.
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Nov 22, 2015 01:12
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You know, I think I finally figured out why the FA Gundam in Thunderbolt weirds me out so much. It's drawn a lot more like the classic RX-78-2 than the more modernized designs, especially the stuff like Mudrock which is also theoretically supposed to be an RX-78 variant. It looks like... well, a old-school Gundam which is quite odd to see amidst all the modern trappings.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:40
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Darth Walrus posted:So since we're chatting about Thunderbolt, I was thinking of writing up a big, cheesy, grandiose airport-novel-style promotional synopsis for people who haven't read it, since (a) it would be fun, and (b) it's exactly the kind of story that feels like it should get one - and I say that with all affection. Stop me right now if it's a bad idea and you don't want to see it clogging up the page. Do it.
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Nov 26, 2015 01:47
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closeted republican posted:If the Gerbera Tetra is a Gundam to monoeye trans mobile suit, does that mean the Dijeh is a monoeye to Gundam trans mobile suit? Nah, Dijeh is just a Gelgoog next-gen.
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Nov 26, 2015 18:36
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Erg posted:I'm about to finish Build Fighters (just got through ep 22) and I'm starting to think about the next Gundam to watch. G-Reco is a very energetic and lighthearted show but it's also very very Tomino.
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Nov 27, 2015 00:49
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Son Ryo posted:I can't agree with that. When I watched it with a friend we referred to it as 'Budget Fighters' because of how little budget obviously went into the first half of the series, and too many fights in the second half devolved into 'throw away your weapons and just get into a punching fight with the enemy'. I am legitimately curious what Gundam TV series you're comparing it to at that point.
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Dec 6, 2015 23:26
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Srice posted:Good storyboarding can really go a long way too, but Build Fighters was for the most part consistently nice and even the worst parts of it were not so weak as to be embarrassing, which is more than what can be said of plenty of Gundam TV shows prior to that. Yeah, BF had a couple of legitimately crap fights (SBS vs GXMaoh being a great example here) but they were by far the exception. It's also worth remembering that out recent television output has been Gundam "Stock Footage" SEED, Gundam "we don't need to animate things moving" 00, and Gundam "Hahahaha" AGE. G-Reco is probably the best television show in terms of combat since then and even then its more due to strong storyboarding with dynamic scenes rather than high-budget animation. IBO has been reasonably good (but a little on the Gundam 00 side) but has also had like 3.5 fights in 10 episodes. Which is not a bad thing but still. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 6, 2015 23:56
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Srice posted:I wish I could find that one clip of the laughable fight in 00 S2 which contained a lot of extreme camera spinning to hide the fact that nothing was moving It's not from S2 but... 
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Dec 7, 2015 00:09
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Raxivace posted:How would you guys improve AGE, while at least loosely staying true to the core ideas of the show? I know a lot of people think Flit just straight up being the final boss would have been a lot better, though having Kio or Asemu fight him would probably feel forced. Very simple actually: Part 1: The core concept is fine. It needs some better writing but the core arc is strong. Intentionally mimic the Amuro arc but have it end badly and we witness effectively an Amuro who joins the Titans. Part 2: Again, the core concept is strong. Focus on the friendship between Asemu and Zeheart and better flesh out the Vagans. Emphasize that the Vagans are acting out of a mix of legitimate religious belief and actual need. Possibly play up the idea that X-Rounders are dangerous that AGE waved its hand at. Play up Flit's downfall. Don't go full evil, have him be somewhat on-par with Asemu but have it end with a real split between Flit's "all Vagans are evil" viewpoint and Asemu's "peace can be found and not all Vagans are evil." Part 3: Play up the idea that Kio is being manipulated by Flit after Asemu vanishes. Flit is effectively trying to create his own Amuro who hates the Vagans just as much as he does. Asemu is forced away and unable to return because he's trying to stop the way from going completely Space-Nuclear. Play up the idea of Zeheart in a leader role and have him eventually form his own splinter faction of Vagans after the realization that he is being manipulated and used. Final Arc: Flit Asuno is going to nuke Vagan, Vagan is going for their final attack, Asemu, Zeheart and the Diva faction are all struggling to stop this war from going completely nuclear and obligating everyone. Rather than Flit getting last-minute redeemed it either is Kio's final victory or Flit must be stopped and we effectively get a dramatic Age vs Age battle to finish the show.
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Dec 7, 2015 05:23
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Erg posted:I'm in the middle of episode 15 of G. Reco and I'm not sure if the subs are mistaken. It's saying that the Dorrette family wanted to teach Earth how to make photon batteries, while the Rayhuntons did not. The Dorettes want to return to Earth and to do so without it being lovely they need ready supplies of Photon Batteries. However the end result of that is a breaking of the Photon Power monopoly and a resurgence of war. The Rayhuntons wanted to avoid that. (At least from what I recall.) It's basically worth remembering that every single faction in G-Reco is maneuvering so they end up on top but not all of them have goals which are inherently opposed.
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Dec 8, 2015 20:42
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Double post
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Dec 8, 2015 20:42
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The last Volume of Gundam: The Origin hit today. It covers the end of the series as well as three mini-stories. One covers the birth of Char and the other two are post-war stories about the White Base crew. It's a solid ending overall. It absolutely ends as if The Origin was a self-contained thing. There's no sequelbaiting for Zeta and the Amuro-based post-war story ends with him going to rebuild Side 7 so you can argue it actually sets itself in a position where Zeta Gundam can't happen. It makes a pretty good self-contained read from start to finish and is probably the definitive version of the story. Also, uh, I guess nobody knew this in the US but the postscript from the last volume of The Origin flat-out states they're making an OAV that only covers the flashback arc! Also I might as well translate this line from the author: "One of the biggest misunderstandings was this reading that OLdtypes are a no-good bunch who need to be supplanted by a NEwtype generation adapated to the space age. That was the Aum cult's view too. The Gundam story isn't about that - it's a story, through and through, about desperation. People can't, they can't understand one another. They can't, but how great would it be if they could? Let's hold onto that hope. That's what the story is and Newtypes are that hope. "Evern so, people will still end up hurting each other. The sorrow of the human condition..." but also in the end you can return to your buddies because, after all, nobody can survive alone. Although that line's become a cliche." I will say that the idea that Newtypes can come across as being like the Aum Shinrikyo really puts an interesting spin on the entire concept that I don't think would instantly come across to an American viewer, but probably explains a lot. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 02:59
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Midjack posted:Yeah dude, first 2 episodes of The Origin are already out. Four total. Wholly unverified speculation is that if it does well Sunrise will do an Origin series. I am aware of that but the translated statement is from a good long time ago but there was plenty of arguments that it was going to cover other material when the answer was already plainly stated! (Just.. in Japanese material.)
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Dec 16, 2015 03:10
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I don't want them doing the rest of The Origin if they can't do better than mid-budget CGI because seriously look at that fuckin' page and how good that art is.
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Dec 16, 2015 04:00
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LeadSled posted:I wasn't expecting the last volume of The Origin manga to end the way it did... They do a similar thing earlier where AI Sensei 'plays' over the Battle of Oddessa, which was a neat touch I thought.
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Dec 17, 2015 16:10
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Lemon Curdistan posted:It's good, but I do question the decision to have a 3-4 volume flashback bang in the middle of the manga. It would have made more sense for it to be chronological and start with their childhood. The Origin is designed to effectively be a self-contained work that assumes no knowledge of Gundam, and the flashback 'ruins' several mysteries of the show beforehand.
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Dec 23, 2015 09:50
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Man, the last shot there is so genuinely uncomfortable. Dude seems that death coming.
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Dec 27, 2015 02:00
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