Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


HitTheTargets posted:

Don't know about statues, but there's the Mazinger Otome manga and the unrelated Robot Girls anime/mobile game.

Granted, I think Uncle Go would be waaaaay more willing to jump on that bandwagon than the corporate types at Sunrise.

You speak as though the corporate types at Sunrise wouldn't be willing to make cute girl versions of their slate of giant robots, in a world where Kantai Collection and Fate are out there printing money.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


The moral message I took away from IBO is essentially that human lives matter, and believing that is the real difference between "good" and "bad".

IBO is morally ambiguous, but Kudelia is held up as a moral exemplar in the show because she unflinchingly believed that the lives of the people of Mars mattered and she wanted to do something for them. Realizing what needed to be done was her character arc in the first season. It didn't matter if she got her hands dirty working with Tekkadan or associated herself with essentially organized crime like Teiwaz or worked with politicians who weren't squeaky clean or even if she ended up working alongside Rustal Elliot at the end, if what she did made things better for people that's fine and even right because their lives matter and and if she can provide for them she will.

It's a quick heuristic but I think it holds up pretty well. Orga makes mistakes and acts the fool and fucks up, but he's motivated by his men because their lives matter and he wants to make sure they can carry on. All that King of Mars stuff was entirely because he wanted to provide for them because their lives matter. McGillis is morally dubious because it's not clear whether or not he actually thinks someone's life matters, he apparently did care for Gaelio and have respect for Tekkadan, but he was also an angry little kid who never quite connected with another person. Rustal Elliot is a pragmatist and realistic and can and will do the right thing at the right time, but he's also pretty clearly the villain of the piece because even if he knows which way the wind blows and is willing to compromise it never seems like he gives a poo poo about another person. Rustal waged a pointless proxy war, he uses people as tools (willing though they may be), and repeatedly demonstrates he has no real regard for human life. Meanwhile Julietta's final revelation, framed as this hopeful realization that will lead her to bring Gjallarhorn and perhaps the whole world into a better era, is that Tekkadan was comprised of humans and that their lives were real and they mattered.

Maybe that's just me being a romantic, but that is me and that was my reading. I think that's why Human Debris are a setting detail in IBO at all, it's not just to get across the grimness of the setting but also to act as a moral focal point for the storyline. Human Debris being treated as though their human lives don't matter is a touchstone for the real rot in the setting, and choosing to officially recognize their humanity, that their human lives matter, is why I think the ending is meant to be seen as a hopeful one.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Raxivace posted:

Like V has, what, 200 named characters? Its a little ridiculous that it works as well as it does.

Now now, only about 80 of them appear regularly.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


MonsieurChoc posted:

Zanscare's bug-eyed suits are great. The Grimoire is amazing. The Crossbone Vanguard is stylish as gently caress.

And say what you want about the Vagans (god knows I will), but I really loved their alien dragon robots.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


I also really liked the Legilis. It absolutely nailed "bad guy Gundam" by correctly combining the aesthetics of a Gundam with the Vagan mobile suit sensibilities.

Now I have nothing but problems with how the drat thing was used and presented (except, oddly, it getting totally clowned at the end), but I think the Legilis is a fine looking Mobile Suit and a Gundam I appreciate.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Tae posted:

Isn't Age where the motivation of the evil factions is to find a new home because their home is near a sun

and then it turns out they could've moved away from the sun this entire time

Close.

The motivation was that the bad guys lived on Mars, but being on Mars apparently gives an inexplicable super duper disease that was murdering them horrifically so they invade Earth. These are the same Vagans who have massive colony ships the size of planetoids with which they could probably have housed their entire population and are equipped with goddamn warp engines.

Of course the real reason they went to war is that their leader is basically Mars Hitler and he wanted to have a giant godawful war to purge as much of humanity as possible because only the survivors will be superior enough to inherit the Earth. After killing literally billions of people in this horrific scheme he dies in bed surrounded by friends and family, content that his goal has been fulfilled and his legacy is secure.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Darth Walrus posted:

I just think that Victory did clean and simple a lot better. The V-2 is much more elegant than anything in AGE.

I mean, I won't argue that because the V2 is on my shortlist for my all-time favorite mobile suit, but I still really like the Vagan designs in AGE. And actually I really like the designs in general for that series. Say what you will against the series (and trust me, I will), but I genuinely like the shooty mcbangbang robots they use and the AGE series are genuinely some of my favorite Gundam designs. The AGE-FX is trufax one of my favorite Gundams, and I really wish it was in a better series because there's a couple of animation flourishes on it that I truly adore.

tl;dr: I like Super Robot Wars BX.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


HitTheTargets posted:

Is this the Japanese version of Big Bang Theory?

I'd watch the Big Bang theory if they had giant robot fights and a really great soundtrack.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


That'll be an interesting Super Robot Wars inclusion.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Ethiser posted:

I need the Turn A remake where instead of digging up Zakus and Kapools they find a bunch of high grade gundam models and a painting booth.

You know there hasn't been a good Build Fighter series since the first right?

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Potsticker posted:

Oh wow, you need to catch up and watch Frontier!

I love the hell out of Macross Frontier, but it is not Top Gun.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Apropos of very little, but my favorite ever random nonsense English text in Japanese stuff comes from one season of Super Sentai where they randomly had text from the English Power Rangers wiki scroll across the opening.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Azubah posted:

There's a small list of who Mika didn't kill.

And you know what? I'm fine with that.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


HitTheTargets posted:

Pretty sure there were GM IIIs by the time of Double Zeta.

Yep, the GM III rolled out for the first Neo Zeon War, just not in huge numbers both because lol EFA and because they were still kind of hosed from Gryps.

Arcsquad12 posted:

Wasn't the GM II just a stripped down production variant of the Custom/Quel? It's essentially a GM 1.5

The GM II is basically just a GM with a linear seat and I mean that literally because a lot of GM IIs actually were original flavor GMs with Linear Seats and a few minor upgrades.

Basically there's a reason the Titans immediately started churning out Marasais.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


tsob posted:

That said, Tomino talked about how he asked for a 25 episode run for G-Reco, which implies he might have gotten a 50 episode order if he hadn't. It's probably name recognition in that instance though, even if true; Sunrise almost certainly wouldn't extend that luxury to most shows or directors. In the time since SEED Destiny only AGE had a straight 50 episode run if I recall. It was being led by a somewhat famous name too.

They're definitely not giving most Gundam shows a full year run anymore and instead breaking them up in to half year seasons with a second contingent on the success of the first. There was even a recent interview with Build Fighters staff where they said this exact thing about the original show's production; with Try being it's second season/half.

Gundam AGE was done by Level 5 and it was apparently pitched by their president and both have a proven track record of shows that are pretty good and definitely make money (Inazuma Eleven, Yokai Watch), so they would have some degree of credibility with Sunrise. More's the pity about AGE as well because Level 5 usually makes pretty good things.

Also if Try was meant to be the second half of BF that's really rather tragic.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


The phrase "Executive interference" is a pretty loaded term as well, it assumes a negative overreach and the implication that an executive pushing for a change are out of the ordinary. In reality I'm pretty sure that nearly every show ever received at least one or two orders from the top asking for changes, you just rarely hear about them because they don't stick out as much.

On the other hand I think the reason we don't see evidence of these decisions is that many of the ones end up being good for the show are the orders that come in during initial production and not halfway through a show or after something contradictory has already been established. If the decision to keep Naze as a genuine ally happened in pre-production or not long after he shows up there'd be basically no evidence that this was a change from anything at all. That's the reason why stuff like 00's (or Code Geass') iffy decisions stand-out all the more, they came in after a full season has already run its course.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


JBP posted:

On holiday so I finally got around to watching another full season after IBO and the origin. Really enjoyed season one of 00. Thought the ending was cool and the last few bits setting up season two have piqued my interest even though I read it's not good and recent thread chat says same.

Season 2 is really uneven and has some setting and pacing woes. I have no doubt a lot of the stuff presented in season 2 was were Gundam 00 as always going to end up, but it probably wasn't intended to be in the exact form it took and really I think the issues with the setting were probably unavoidable sadly.

Personally I still rather liked it, warts and all.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Zedd posted:

If you go into S2 prepared with knowing it starts off good, drops down to meh and picks up near the end due to :catdrugs: it's still very enjoyable.
The movie just embraces the :catdrugs: factor and I love it more then I should.

It's funny because in hindsight I can't imagine 00 ending in any way but :catdrugs:. The framing from basically the start of the series supports the movie's tripped out ending, people in S1 00 frequently wondered what the end game actually is for Celestial Being and point out they can't come up with a reasonable answer to how they're going to do what they say they want to do. Thus when the series takes a sharp right turn later on to give unreasonable answers they're paying off this initial skepticism oddly.

Also I'd seriously love a one-shot OVA about the crew of the Sumeragi and their ELS friends going off and being Star Trek.

Solkanar512 posted:

The disappointment for me came from how strongly the second season started. Breaking everyone out, getting the gang back together (or finding others to fill the place of others) and then it just goes off the rails.

This is very true as well. Even putting aside the wacky resolution 00 S2 has some really dubious pacing going on.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


tsob posted:

True, though I would personally say that in the first maybe two episodes in which Naze and the Turbines appear they have a much more guarded and sinister atmosphere that suggests Naze is going to double cross the team at some point or at least that he's not entirely on the level with them. It's never really overt or anything, so it doesn't matter long term since it's not incompatible with the direction they took his character; but I do think it's possible to look at those episodes and see some difference.

True, but on the other hand in those first two episodes from Naze's position Tekkadan are basically a bunch of clueless punk kids in deep trouble with way too much firepower. Being guarded and even sinister seems pretty reasonable when you aren't sure if it's even safe for you or your organization to be hanging around them.

Arcsquad12 posted:

You know I think Riddhe is a good character but man does he come off as an arrogant creep in episode 2.

Yeah, Riddhe goes through some serious character development. By which I mean he goes through poo poo, because Riddhe gets utterly poo poo on by life. Honestly he's kind of an altogether fascinating dude.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Arcsquad12 posted:

And Byarlant Custom pilot gives no fucks as he massacres two thirds of the zeon attack force by himself.

Said pilot was so good they gave him a short spinoff manga.

And in Super robot wars Z that pilot turns out to be Four Murasame.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


I seem to recall in the original Gundam one of the Zeonic mooks implied that everyone just assumed that Char was horribly scarred under his mask and decided not to ask about it.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Arcsquad12 posted:

Shame about the plot as well. The treasure hunt for Laplace Box and the culmination of it are so dull and uninteresting. The stuff around it in the b and c storylines tend to go from being okay to being some of the best content in the entire franchise.

Laplace's Box was a fantastically underwhelming anticlimax. I get the sense that that actually kind of the point and it was perhaps meant to be something of a metaphor for the setting (The idealistic dream of a better tomorrow turned into a pointless and ugly object that exists merely to carry a war), but Unicorn in general was severely at odds with itself and its own messages so partial credit only.

I watched the TV recut of Unicorn with a couple of non-Gundam Fans when it aired on Toonami a while ago and it was actually a lot of fun to spoil what was in the box (with their knowledge and permission, as the only person who knew poo poo about Gundam it fell to me to explain what was going on and they asked directly to know why the drat thing was so important). They were completely dumbfounded that an entire series was hung on such a little thing.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


One of my favorite little bits of Amuro info comes from the original pitch for Gundam's last thirteen episodes where Tomino (or whoever wrote it down for posterity) describes Amuro with a phrase something like "Paranoid as usual, Amuro doesn't trust [event]". That's such a curious and somewhat appropriate way to describe him.

It comes across less overtly as the series goes on and poo poo happens to force Amuro to progress, but the One Year War really did gently caress him up and left him kind of weird. It puts me in mind some of the early bits in Zeta where Beltorchika is chastising Amuro for seeming like he actually wants to go out and fight even after all the bad stuff that happened to him against Zeon. It seems like Amuro eventually dealt with his issues by throwing himself into the violence of it all and becoming desensitized.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


General Battuta posted:

Kacricon Cacooler

Yes, that was a funny name for the petty little man who died a horrible burning death screaming the name of his lover.

Edit: Gotta agree with Caphi, this isn't a good gimmick.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


My favorite Gundam names remain "Fixx Bloodman" and "Bork Cry"

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Darth Walrus posted:

When controlled by a Newtype, the Turn A is apparently capable of incredibly precise teleportation (like, ‘teleport my beam into your cockpit’ precise), which probably levels the playing field. Like, that won’t stop a Turn, because they’ll just regenerate their pilot, but it’ll slow them down enough for you to set up something nastier.

The regeneration of pilots was described as taking literally thousands of years however. The Turns can regenerate, but it takes a VERY long time to rebuild from really heavy damage. This is why the Turn X looks weird apparently, it never fully recovered from being thrashed by the Turn A during the last apocalypse. Presumably if it had been at full repair it would have looked more traditionally like a Gundam.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Droyer posted:

They're from the Turn A novelizations which afaik have never been translated.

There's also some of it in the Tech manuals in some of the model kits I believe. I think that's where stuff like the Turn A's DOC bases and an explanation of what DHGCP stands for comes from. Honestly though like a lot of obscure material for a Japanese series this is generally going to be second or third or fourth-hand hearsay.

EthanSteele posted:

There's a picture of a bunch of Turn As like they were GMs and they can just teleport whatever ammo or weapons they need whenever they want. I don't know what manga its from though.

Yeah, that's another thing repeated a lot, the Turn A was apparently mass produced. Makes you wonder what an Ace-Spec unit looked like in whatever civilization built it...

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


The problem with deep-talk on SEED's technology is that the writing of SEED really didn't care too much for how it worked and for consistently showing the ramifications of it working, especially as the series progressed and they brought in more advanced versions of those technologies. Phase Shift was a big deal early on when the show talked about how energy expenditure was important, but like a lot of things it got backpedaled after the final Strike vs Aegis fight. Phase Shift, Trans-Phase Shift, and Variable Phase Shift have a lot of explanations of what they are and how they work and why each is better than the last, and while the series tells us these facts what it does with them is rather different. In general practice the most Trans-Phase Shift does is give an excuse for why the druggies can have extended fights on par with the Freedom and Justice (TPS doesn't use as much energy and is better so it allows for much longer operational times and better performance against the more advanced Gundams). It's less a setting detail and more a writing justification to make the bad guys seem plausibly scary. Meanwhile DESTINY says flat out that VPS is the best version, but in practice the most relevant thing about VPS is that it lets them change the colors of the Impulse Gundam depending on the pack. In fact VPS seems less exciting from a broader setting perspective because by the time of DESTINY everything has beam weapons so the Anti-Solid Arms trait of Phase Shift (which is the thing they harped on from the beginning) is much less important.

Related to how SEED deals with Phase Shift is how it deals with the setting's weapons. SEED talks a lot about the various types of weapons they use, with the brightly colored lines being anything from "High energy beams" to plasma to positrons to rail guns to whatever, but the series basically doesn't differentiate them. People have been pointing out for decades that putting Rail Guns on the Freedom didn't make a lot of sense in a setting where everything resists solid arms and nothing (at that point) really resisted beams, but in reality what the Freedom's hip guns fired didn't really matter to the writing of SEED. That's the reason why trying to seriously compare and contrast with SEED's technology is kind of fatuous, you're putting more thought into it than the writers of the series really cared to. Consistent depiction of technology was not a priority in SEED.

This choice of priorities is why the Akatsuki is kind of nonsensical from an "actual engineering" perspective (quotes because come on, we're talking about the realistic engineering of GIANT HUMANOID ROBOTS). We're told and shown that the Akatsuki is pretty flatly immune to beams with the reasoning being that the armor is comprised millions of tiny mirrors which implies that it works because the beams it deflects are light-based lasers, but the Akatsuki also handily deflects beams explicitly described being made from Positrons which mirrors really probably shouldn't do. Similarly it's for whatever reason vulnerable to Beam Sabers and Beam Boomerangs, with no real reason given to why those beams are somehow different from all the other beams that don't work. In concept I have no problem with a golden, beam immune Gundam, in a franchise that's had I-Fields or the equivalent since at least the Big Zam, but the reasoning for how it's beam immune leaves something to be desired.

The short of it is that SEED never cared too much about how its technology worked and what it could or should do. As a result serious talk about how CE technology compares to other things often isn't realistic because we don't have enough solid, consistent, verified details. Can Phase Shift be really strong and deflect beams? I guess maybe if the show did it, but the show never suggested that before it happens so what else don't we know about CE's technology? Gundam often plays fast and loose with how its technology works because plot and story are really more important than that, but usually every series had one or two bits of technology that were pinned down and fully explored and extrapolated upon, be it the Zero System, the Satellite Cannon, DG Cells, or some of the million billion uses for GN Particles. SEED doesn't even really get to one, it starts doing that with original Phase Shift and Batteries, but by the end of the series even those are kind of nebulous, changing as the plot does. I could keep going and talk about why I think this reflects poorly on the mindset behind SEED, but does the thread full of Gundam geeks need yet another rehash on why the Cosmic Era was generally ungood?

tl;dr: I am a dork.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Waffles Inc. posted:

Just wanted to say, as someone who adores Turn A (and the mecha from it), this is awesome to hear! I dunno if I'll ever get around to reading that novelization translation, but I absolutely love the world of Turn A and how crazy powerful everything seems to be in relation to the rest of the series

Also I had no idea there was fanon about Corin being a Wing pilot; that's wild. What other stuff is out there like that?

Another fun bit of Turn A Trivia is that the WaDOM's serial number implies it's actually a unit from G Gundam. The prefix "JMA" may mean "Japanese Mobile Armor", as it's also used for Fantoma which was a mobile armor from Neo Japan with a very small role in G Gundam. Notably Turn A uses Serial Numbers this way for the more obvious suits as well, the Kapools and the Borjarnons share official serial numbers with the Capules and Zakus they're based on.

As for Borjarnons amusingly it's not clear if they are actually Zeonic Zaku I/IIs or just really really exact replicas from later eras.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


OptimusShr posted:

I thought she showed up for an episode didn't she?

Sayla is at best a cameo in Zeta Gundam.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Arcsquad12 posted:

The secret charter is so dumb. Thank god Narrative says that revealing its contents achieved nothing.

Hell, even people in Unicorn question whether revealing what's in the box would do loving anything, with them even admitting smart money is on it doing nothing at all. It's even explicitly pointed out how weird it is that this document, which has no real power and is written such that it has a pile of obvious loopholes, developed such a reputation that it basically let the Vist Foundation do whatever the hell it wanted.

I've said it before but from a meta context the irrelevance of the box really is Unicorn's biggest problem, it builds itself up to be a pivotal turning point in the history of the Universal Century but from the start it literally COULD NOT be a pivotal turning point in the history of the Universal Century because that setting is already earmarked for at least another hundred years of strife and decay. Banagher, Audrey, Riddhe, and all the rest didn't change the world, their possibilities were doomed from the start.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


MonsieurChoc posted:

The problem is that Banagher never goes beyond that "But". When Amuro and Char spar, they both have something to say. Same with most other Tomino Gundam protagonist, and even a few others like Domon. In X D.O.M.E. is the one that ends up rebutting the bad guy's words.

But Banagher doesn't say anything. Much like Kira Yamato in SeeD. They are empty.

The problem with Banagher's talk comes from the way Unicorn is at odds with itself. Banagher talks a lot about possible futures, but that talk is metatextually hollow when we KNOW what the future holds. His message of hope is less inspiring and more pitiable in the context of UC 96, and the real problem is that the series at once positions it as the morally correct perspective while not letting us forget it's a futile and sad perspective.

From an in-universe perspective Banagher isn't wrong to want to believe in a brighter tomorrow where people can be free from the demons of their past, he's arguably correct when he argues against the cruelty on both sides of the conflict, but Unicorn is so deeply enmeshed in UC history and minutia that it's drat near impossible to buy into the pathos of it. Unicorn has so many callbacks to previous UC Shows (and a handful of call forwards) that you never forget it's a UC show (it's in the title!), and knowing it's a UC show just makes Banagher's hope seem so hopeless.

Is it really missing the point of a series to point out that what the series wants to be (an inspiring message of hope and possiblity) is undercut by the other thing the series wants to be (a big deal, big budget, fanservice laden UC Gundam historical tour and callback)? And I don't believe for a second that the writers missed this, Banagher's dreams of a better possibility are fleeting and ephemeral. We know more about what Banagher's position isn't than what it is. Banagher rejects the EFA's callousness, Zeon's old scars, and Frontal's dream of a marginalized Earth, but has little to say about his own position other than "I want to believe the future will be better". What Unicorn needed was to actually show there were people who were working to find a different way. The series needed more bits with people like Kai and Beltorchika and Bright showing they were working in their own ways to circumvent the system and better the world in whatever way they can.

If Unicorn really wanted to proceed with its message of hope it needed more honesty about how long it would take to fix the utterly hosed up world of the Universal Century. Banagher always talked like the bright future he believed in would be in his own lifetime, and I can't believe that because I KNOW it isn't true. Am I wrong for not believing in someone I absolutely KNOW 100% for sure is wrong?

I almost wish they'd opened the box in movie 6, and spent movie 7 exploring the lack of results and progressing Banagher et. al. so they realized that their dream wouldn't end with them but their children or even their children's children. One of Unicorn's major themes is of inheritance, what passes from parent to child. So many people in Unicorn inherited some form of hatred or some ugly legacy, ending Unicorn with the cast choosing to pass on their hopes instead would be a drat sight more appropriate for the attempted themes of the show than, well, Unicorn movie 7.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


HitTheTargets posted:

Didn't X start up basically as soon as Wing ended, which itself started right after G? I could see a bit of burnout in that case, to go along with what people are saying about it just not standing out as much.

Burnout is a thing that's often brought out vis-a-vis Gundam X since yes, it did air back to back to back with Wing and G before it, but that's one of those semi-apocryphal "just so" stories so I'm not 100% on that being the real/only reason for getting cut short early.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Guy Goodbody posted:

Shinn has potential as a rebuke of Kira's entire philosophy. You can't fight a war peacefully. Destiny as a whole has a lot of potential dealing with how the end of SEED didn't involve resolving any of the actual conflicts. Both sides just kinda ran out of super weapons at the same time, leaving the Three Ships Alliance the dominant force on the battlefield. Destiny starts out by saying that the peace treaty limited the number of MS either side could have, but that just drove both sides to develop more powerful MS. There's still plenty of rogue ZAFT forces who want revenge for the war crimes the Earth committed, and the Earth government is still full of Natural supremacists

Destiny didn't just have potential, it started off actually making the most of that potential, and retroactively making the ending of SEED better by in-universe dealing with the flaws

Destiny also did horribly by Kira himself. By the end of the series Kira had had a pretty bad shake-up because he couldn't save either the girl he kind of liked or the cool father figure who mentored him, and the evil dude he defeated has more or less been proven totally correct in his view of the world. Kira finding out he accidentally killed a family of civilians (back before they changed who was responsible for killing the Asukas) would have been another really nasty blow to him, and seeing him move forward even from all that could have made a nice parallel to the setting hopefully working past all the ugliness we see in the Cosmic Era. That didn't happen.

Destiny ended WAY dumber and simpler than it should have been basically, and the fact it looked like it was going to progress the story and setting in a smart way for a while is why people talk about Destiny's potential.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Honestly what kills Build Divers for me is that the leads are just dull. As someone pointed out once Riku and Yukki are kind of the same person across two bodies, and they absolutely cannot carry the show. Build Fighters had a fantastic cast. Build Fighters Try had a pretty good cast that went to waste every second Sekai was on screen because he's dull as poo poo. Build Divers flat out doesn't have a good cast, which means its hypothetical real strength (the setting) goes to waste. This current probably final arc is heavily predicated on caring about what happens to the characters, and I really don't.

Basically what I'm saying is that I wish Keiichi Sigsawa was really into Gunpla and had offered to write the series.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Kanos posted:

I think this is pretty unfair. It absolutely has some very fun one-off episodes, enough for me to say that the show has a kernel of goodness in there that isn't really realized. The main problems are that basically every single episode related to the main plot is dull as dishwater and the protagonist is a personality black hole who they completely failed to make interesting in any way, and the show is unfortunately very interested in pursuing the main plot instead of having fun gunpla adventures in an infinite MMO world.

Basically I wouldn't say there's nothing good to say about it at all, but I would agree that for the most part it's extremely boring and as a whole product it's definitely not worth the time.

This, all of this. I was going to make a post about the few positive morsels in Build Divers, but then you more or less made it for me Kanos so kudos.

Build Divers has some positives, but they're few and faint and do not outweigh the morass of mehness that fills up the show. Build Divers is basically 4/10 television, not good but not quite bad enough to be worth the energy to hate. The show really doesn't seem to be trying and in some ways that's the worst condemnation I can make of it.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


chiasaur11 posted:

The thing that I find most interesting about Build Divers's failure is how isolated its successes are. Like, it's a show, it has continuity, so when it does something right it should form into something larger, like a good character, or an interesting setting, or... something. But when it has something less terrible, it just feels like itself, with no impact on the overall show.

Build Divers is less than the sum of its parts.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


chiasaur11 posted:

And at the same time as a new SAO, which just made it look worse. Nobody in Build Divers is a patch on the pink devil.

Yeah, the crack I made upthread about Keichi Sigsawa was because he wrote the Light Novels that were adapted into the Gun Gale Online anime that recently wrapped and that show was literally the best thing to ever have the words "Sword Art Online" in the title. Also as Chiasaur is pointing out GGO does way more with its setting and conceit than BD does.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Plastic_Gargoyle posted:

Some of them have janky moments that were probably mandated by need to fit flaps, but I can't recall any that were unwatchable or anything.

Even the bad moments are balanced out by the amazing ones.

Plus, you know, Mark Oliver as Rau Le Creuset:

https://youtu.be/0Awfq95GSSo

I never get tired of that performance, even after I decided I didn't like SEED anymore.

Dub Rau dramatically improved the otherwise incredibly doofy episode where Rau gives Kira an extended tour of his own backstory.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


RillAkBea posted:

They actually already made it into a manga, Anaheim Record.

And a shoujo-ai visual novel that jackknifes into an angsty sidestory to stardust memories.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply