Crawl 0.17: Corn enemies no longer popcorn

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl 0.17: Corn enemies no longer popcorn

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

You give it to an irc bot, which queues it up into a self-explanatory Crawl TV thing for you to watch. It records EVERYTHING the player was doing, including menus, so it's not that good at capturing only the funny bits.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2015 07:27

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 01:12

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

FulsomFrank posted:

(aside from how do you guys play online so much, it's so laggy and unresponsive compared to offline)

Try a different server. The main crawl site has quite a list now, instead of just directing everyone to CAO(which has always been the laggiest server for me). They also recently fixed a major bug causing webtiles games to lag more over time.

quote:

when you guys choose to rest and regen mana, are most people anal enough to run around and find a cleared out or relatively safe and escape filled area to do it OR do you guys prefer to just plop your asses down wherever and hit 5? I guess this question works for HP too.

Depends on the situation. If I think there are still monsters around, I'll back off and rest. If I think I got everything, I'll plop down where I ended the fight. Same goes for HP.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2015 18:05

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

quote:

B - a wand of teleportation (1)
p - 14 scrolls of teleportation

It takes longer for teleports to fire in the abyss, but they're very strong since whatever was killing you is unlikely to ever find you again. I would have used one the turn the Sentinel came into view, or at least once it was clearly kicking my rear end.

This is also why some people wear rings of teleportation in the abyss. You cover more ground from the random teles, and you don't particularly care about the fights or most of the loot you're getting pulled away from. E:Not unless you're playing an old version.

Haifisch fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Nov 6, 2015

# ¿ Nov 6, 2015 19:39

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

I thought it did, but I guess I missed this change. Nice for people who had the teleportitis mut, but lovely for everyone else.

They should probably just remove the *tele effect from rings of teleportation at this point, since it only matters if you wear-id a cursed one before you have any remove curse scrolls.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2015 19:55

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

s - the ring of Ofugyn {rPois rF+ rC+ Dex+2 Slay+3}

That'll do, lab. That'll do.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2015 08:17

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Lawman 0 posted:

i - ring of Yquto {rPois rF+++ rN+ MR+ Str-2}

Internet Kraken posted:

It still feels really dumb that potions of flight are a resource I actually have to conserve now rather than just throw on the floor and forget about. The more I play 0.17 the more the lack of the flight spell annoys me.

Maybe it matters more for 15 runing, but I've never really felt they were a critical resource. Then again, I'm more than happy to lug a ring of flight around for the one 3-rune branch that benefits from it.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2015 06:54

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Pomale posted:

So I pulled in a 3-rune win for my team, but I've never really gotten to the extended game before aside from finishing Tomb once. I'd like to get my first 15-rune this tournament if possible. What race/class do you guys recommend for someone attempting extended but has never tried it before? Obviously no combo will make it easy, but I don't want to make it more challenging than it needs to be.

Honestly, it depends more on the gear you find than the combo you're running. If you don't have a solid variety of resists(as in, at least two pips in most things) available, or if your AC/EV/weapon are mediocre, you probably shouldn't do extended in a given game.

Being a caster will make extended a lot less tedious because you can mow through enemies faster, doubly so once you're slinging around multiple L9 spells. But you need a good source of mid-battle MP regen - generally that means a crystal ball of energy(plus clarity and high enough evo to make it useful). Veh is nice because of the range extension+wizardry effect+MP on kills, although the latter won't completely fill your MP requirements. Sif is weird and does nothing to aid your casting(other than blocking miscast effects), but channeling is good. By the time you hit extended you'll want some form of melee, whether that means a staff of earth or training up a traditional melee weapon. It can save your rear end if you run out of MP, and lets you save MP when fighting popcorn enemies.

If you go melee, the easiest god choices are TSO(holy brands your weapon, HP on kills), Makhleb(HP on kills), or Zin(most powerful panic buttons in the game, Recite). You don't necessarily have to worship them from the start, but you'll want to choose a starting god whose wrath you can handle. If you go Zin, you may want to go TSO for a bit to get the holy brand, then switch - good god wrath doesn't trigger when switching to another good god, and you get to keep a fraction of your piety. Even a pure melee dude will want to hybridize a bit eventually, because utility spells will make extended a lot easier & you'll have plenty of XP to get them castable. Even a dumb brute in heavy armor can get Haste up eventually.

As far as races go: The undead races remove Torment as a worry, but tend to be crap early game. Gargoyles resist torment and come with innate flight(handy for select extended branches) and shitloads of innate AC. Minotaurs will get you to extended through virtue of being beefy overall, although their lovely casting apts will start to hurt - even they want castable rmsl/haste/blink/etc eventually. Nothing insurmountable, just annoying. DE is the classic caster choice. HE is a bit less squishy without sacrificing too much of your casting apts/racial int.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2015 17:52

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Crawl is getting too omgrandom for me.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2015 09:27

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Eveningstars are still kinda rare, although he could have gotten away with a great mace too(gr doesn't really need the extra defense from a shield).

# ¿ Nov 14, 2015 21:35

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Locke Dunnegan posted:

That reminds me:

As a long time casual player (only ever getting like 5 runes max, never doing Pan or Tomb or gone 15+ in a Zig, etc), I occasionally read about edits to rc files aside from team membership, but I don't know really anything about that stuff. What kind of edits do people use? Are there some widely accepted standard ones, or is it personal taste or reliant on race/class/god choice?

Some easy edits that help prevent "oh god I was on autopilot and suddenly I'm a turn from death" incidents, in the form of forcing you to stop and pay attention for half a second:

code:

autofight_stop = 60

Or any number you want, but I'd set it to at least 40. This stops tabfighting when your HP hits that percentage. The default is 25 or something else hilariously low.

quote:

force_more_message += (Agnes|Aizul|Antaeus|Asmodeus|Asterion|Azrael|Blork the orc|Boris|Cerebov|Crazy Yiuf|Dispater|Dissolution|Donald|Dowan|Duvessa|Edmund|the Enchantress|Ereshkigal|Erica|Erolcha|Eustachio|Fannar|Frances|Frederick|Gastronok|Geryon|Gloorx Vloq|Grinder|Grum|Harold|Ignacio|Ijyb|Ilsuiw|Jessica|Jorgrun|Jory|Joseph|Josephine|Khufu|Kirke|Lamia|the Lernaean hydra|Lom Lobon|Louise|Mara|Margery|Maud|Maurice|Menkaure|Mennas|Mnoleg|Murray|Natasha|Nergalle|Nessos|Nikola|Norris|Pikel|Plog|Polyphemus|Prince Ribbit|Psyche|Purgy|Robin|Roxanne|the royal jelly|Rupert|Saint Roka|the Serpent of Hell|Sigmund|Snorg|Sonja|Terence|Tiamat|Urug|Vashnia|Wiglaf|Xtahua).*into view

Yes, it's really that long. Forces a --more-- when a unique comes into view. If you're really annoyed by --more--s you can snip out some of the less dangerous uniques.

code:

fmm += .*orbs? of fire.* comes? into view
fmm += .*pandemonium* comes? into view
fmm += .*lich.* comes? into view
fmm += .*greater mumm.* comes? into view
fmm += .*(s|player) ghost.* comes? into view
fmm += .*Fiend.* comes? into view
fmm += .*curse skull.* comes? into view
fmm += .*Hell Sentinel.* comes? into view

These do the same thing for some particularly dangerous non-uniques.

Handy stuff:

code:

fmm += Found .* abyssal rune of Zot

To make 100% sure you notice the abyssal rune.

code:

default_manual_training = true

So you don't have to deal with changing training type every time you start a game.

Fun stuff:

code:

tile_player_tile = mons:plant
tile_player_tile = tile:mons_orb_guardian_fetus

Change your tile to any monster(or plant) in the game! And a few that aren't in the game! You can only use one at a time. I forget what the diference between the mons: and tile: variants are, but try the other if one doesn't work. If you like more variety...

code:

include += RandomTiles.rc

{
  function ready()
  -- Enable RandomTiles
  random_tile()
  end

}

Gives you random tiles that change occassionally. More documentation on it here.

code:

fake_lang = dwarven|jagerkin|kraut|runes|wide|grunt|butt

Pick your favorite fake languages. You can stack up to 3 of them, separated using commas. (ex: fake_lang = grunt,dwarven,butt) You can stack the same language more than once; fake_lang = grunt,grunt,grunt is a good way to get a very!!!!!!! excited!!!!!!!!!! game!!!!!!!!!.

If you really love buttlang, you can change how often it replaces words. (ex: fake_lang=butt:10 would replace 10% of your words with "butt".)

# ¿ Nov 15, 2015 09:18

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Unimpressed posted:

(and if so where do I get that, I've never seen it in a game)?

Butcher a gold dragon & enchant the hide; they start showing up in Depths and Vaults. That said, CPA is fine unless you desperately need one of the resists from GDA.

Unimpressed posted:

I'm sure i'll get an executioner antimagic at some point or other, would that be a better brand than venon or elec?

You'll probably want two weapons: An antimagic axe to use against casters(including Orbs of Fire!), and a different brand for everything else. Venom's gotten better since the monster rpois change, but it'll still be more useful late-game if you can rebrand it to freezing/flaming/chopping. Electrocution's not terrible, but it's better on fast weapons since it only triggers on 33% of hits.

You could honestly win with either exec axe and the antimagic battle axe if you have no luck with Trog gifts or branding scrolls.

# ¿ Nov 16, 2015 05:39

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

World Famous Whore posted:

Switch. Square LOS is worth the change alone.

More importantly, the removal of shadow traps. gently caress those things.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2015 18:59

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

IronicDongz posted:

I do genuinely think that Hell would be better if each branch were just one difficult floor. And pan would be better if you were guaranteed to get the rune levels right off the bat, and then random levels came after so if you really wanted you could trawl through it for zigs or whatever.

Agreed on both fronts. I also think that hell effects should be reduced in frequency, probably combined with removing the completely non-threatening effects. (Flavor text, summoning low level demons/skeletons/zombies, harmless miscasts, etc) Learndb says that you get a hell effect approximately every 40 turns, which is insane. I get that hell effects are the point of Hell, but 95% of them are just annoyances. Being interrupted by them less often but having the interruptions matter would be a big improvement.

In other news it turns out that queen bees zerking killer bees has been broken for half a year:

http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commit;h=02a7081604cefaadeaea8675edc0d7aec63da316 posted:

Allow insects to go berserk again.

This was broken by d63ab3c5. This fix was suggested by wheals, who also
suggested replacing this check by mons_is_object in trunk. Note that insects
being able to go berserk is quite important both with queen bees berserking
other bees and with moths of wrath in Spider.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2015 07:12

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

It doesn't matter who you're worshipping, it just matters how fast you can kill the goddamned things. There's been several times where I was stuck in a cycle of "eat 1 turn food->hit->starving again->eat again->repeat". Which is fine(tedious to a level that crawl development tries to avoid, but not deadly) when it's just the death cob, but means encountering a death cob and any non-trivial enemy in the open is a teleport situation now.

It's kind of insane when zerking against every death cob I see is more food efficient than fighting them normally. I'd be shocked if death cobs don't get toned down a bit in the weeks after tournament.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2015 18:25

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Setec_Astronomy posted:

[*]It removes the abusable Zig entrance from the part of the game where it is most abusable, instead turning it into a possible pre-extended loot gamble.

I'm not sure what the problem is with its current location. 99% of the time when I have a character dip in to do a zig until a 'safe' depth, I get jack poo poo out of it. And if a character's strong enough to go deeper & get actual loot from it, they're not going to care whether it's in depths or V5.

If your problem's the 1% of the time you get something good from 'safe' zigging, it already has a counterbalance: Players overestimating how deep they can safely go, and the chance of getting a dangerous floor(early pan lord/mummy floors can still be terrifying).

quote:

It makes Vaults:5 -- the current most fun/challenging floor in the late game, IMO -- into the climax of the base game.

Except a lot of characters skip V5 entirely because it's too dangerous for their build. This would punish them for no reason.

Heithinn Grasida posted:

The game is too long, but I'm not sure the end game is the worst offender. I still think it drags too much in the mid game and that lair, orc and even lair branches could stand to be shorter and more dense. Extended is a huge slog, especially for what amounts to a very long victory lap for most of the characters that do it. I wish those areas would be shortened before anything else.

The problem with condensing the midgame is that you'd have to be careful about removing or adding too much XP. I'm pretty sure lair would have been cut in half by now if it wasn't for that.

Tweaking extended is much easier because nobody gives a poo poo if you remove a bunch of XP from hells or pan. :v:

# ¿ Nov 20, 2015 17:53

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Clocked in my obligatory 15 rune tournament win.

code:

12801554 Haifisch the Talismancer (level 27, 197/320 (323) HPs)
             Began as a Demonspawn Wanderer on Nov 20, 2015.
             Was an Initiate of Gozag.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on Nov 22, 2015!
             
             The game lasted 12:39:31 (126036 turns).

Gozag is nuts. I didn't even have to use any potion petitions until hells. It helps that I had powered by pain(so I got all the agility and might I could want just by existing), but still.

But more importantly: Bribe. I have no loving clue how it's supposed to work. The ability text suggests that bribed allies stay that way forever, and bribed peaceful monsters go neutral when the bribe runs out. My game experience is that both types of bribes run out & cause the allied/peaceful monster to go hostile, and the bribe can run out before the bribe pool does. It's still a really powerful ability, but it'd be nice to have some way to predict how long a bribe is good for.

# ¿ Nov 22, 2015 07:28

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Floodkiller posted:

Mark the Elf:3 vault enemies as patrolling. This will make it much harder to scroll of noise/shout out the entire Elf vault, so I guess there goes the easy way of doing that.

I see that "remove strategies for things" is a continuing design goal. It'd be less annoying if there wasn't a history of removing stuff that was nice but not gamebreaking(*tele in abyss, all of the alternative TRJ strategies).

I'm not even sure how this 'fixes' anything, since you'd just have to kite stuff back more slowly now(to keep them in LOS/"actively chasing" you). Or am I completely misunderstanding how patrolling works?

# ¿ Nov 23, 2015 07:29

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

WereVolvo posted:

I'm really pleased with In Zot Corn Eats you and my own efforts. Overall I finished 66th, compared to 176th during the 0.16 tournament. I managed to grab 7 wins, though I could probably have squeezed in a few more if I hadn't insisted on doing silly stuff like trying to melee two death cobs simultaneously (seriously, gently caress death cobs) and other assorted stupidity.
Oh, and I came one species closer to greatplayer by ascending a HuGl at the end. Only Kobold, Halfling, Felid, Demigod and Mummy left!

Halflings: They're easy, just really boring. Durable as hell, and good at slings and both varieties of blades. They have a better short blade apt, but you'll want to transition to long blades by Vaults or Depths.

Felids: FeIE. I know I have the biggest crawlboner for IE, but it's honestly going to be the best start you have thanks to Ozoarmor and Condensation Shield. Having actual defenses improves your survival rate immensely.

Mummy: Easiest for me was MuGl with staves. The quarterstaff is the beefiest start weapon you can get, and Mu loves the super low skill requirements. Everything else is a matter of surviving until you fix your rF- and clarity problems.

Demigod: Blah blah Tm blah. Demigod apts are samey enough that you can try just about anything, so don't be afraid to try a something else if Tm isn't doing it for you.

# ¿ Nov 25, 2015 21:03

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

I'm not even mad.

code:

798591 Haifisch the Sorcerer (level 27, -5/199 HPs)
             Began as a High Elf Air Elementalist on Oct 17, 2015.
             Was the Champion of Vehumet.
             Killed by mirror damage (38 damage)
             ... on level 25 of a ziggurat on Nov 26, 2015.
             The game lasted 09:24:17 (112712 turns).

I had 53 int, max power/hungerless Glaciate, and could have had Tornado running once I had access to it again. The game's revenge for my hubris was tormenting me to hell & killing me in the dumbest way possible. That'll teach me not to look out for Death Knights. :v:

apple posted:

It'll probably mean grinding Abyss:3 for the rune so banishment to Abyss:5 will mostly just be annoying like before. To be fair, banishment and/or abyss need changing so actual changes to it are welcome, I just hope that in the case it doesn't work out additional work will be put into redesigning the spell.

They're working on changing it on this experimental branch. Trims abyss to 4 levels, places the rune only on 4. Sounds good, except for needing to take stairs all the way out for some godforsaken reason. And keeping the spawnrate of the deepest level you've been to until you manage to leave entirely. And getting the rune fixes spawns at Abyss 4 levels. But mostly the stairs.

Because you know what people wanted? More time wasted in the Abyss after grabbing the rune! :shepface:

# ¿ Nov 27, 2015 05:48

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

World Famous Whore posted:

Ignition is a great rod. Iron and lightening are my favorite direct damage though. Destruction and Cloud are nice but unreliable. Shadow is stupidly powerfull. Swarm is the first I toss when my inventory gets full cause it is trash.

Clouds is great, you just need medium-high levels of evo to make it reliable. I'm talking at least 14-ish evo to consistantly get freezing/fire/negative energy clouds, and even higher if you want acid clouds.

# ¿ Nov 28, 2015 19:25

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Why. Just why.

quote:

Regeneration amulet rots on removal

This amulet was ideally swapped in after every fight, and then swapped
back out at full HP. To prevent this tedious process from being optimal,
the amulet gets a penalty on removal: 2-7 hp rot.

I feel like this is attacking something few people actually did, and then overcorrecting for it. The main use of regen is in-battle, who gives a poo poo if people swap it in after fights to heal a bit quicker.

E: Basically you're not going to use regen at all now once you're in parts of the game where clarity/rmut/rcorr/warding are important. Tactical jewellery swapping? Why would we want that?

Haifisch fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Nov 30, 2015

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 05:34

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Reading down the commit list more:

quote:

Turn the amulet of warding into the amulet of dismissal

The amulet of warding was a ring of positive energy 90% of the time, and
only had a minor effect even when summons were present. It was generally a
filler amulet used only when no other amulets were available.

The amulet of dismissal has a 10% chance to teleport randomly any monster
which deals damage to you. It's still effective against summons, given that
a random teleport has a fair chance to effectively kill a summon via
timeout. It also has utility in a variety of other situations and for a
variety of characters. Removing the amulet causes yellow Contam, making
tactical swapping a poor choice.

quote:

This is the first step in a series of amulet changes. The first aspect of
this specific piece is to remove the amulet of mutation. This amulet had two
problems: first, it almost completely protected from a rare threat, meaning
that it shut down that class of threat almost entirely. Second, because the
threat it protected against was rare, it was almost never useful to wear
this amulet, encouraging players to haul it around until it was useful to
swap in. Hopefully, removing it will force players to use tactics against
mutators more often, encouraging more interesting play overall.

Same dev. Why the gently caress does he hate tactical swapping so much? Does he think everyone should just pick an amulet and use it forever? What the gently caress are people supposed to do against mutations now? Are rings going to get a bunch of penalities for swapping next?

How much of this poo poo is getting reverted in the next week once people realize it was a bad idea?

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 05:41

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

So are we getting a ring of rmut eventually? I know that you can do mut-heavy branches with no rmut, but it's sketchy business and can gently caress you over a lot if you don't have curemut. Either that or make curemut a lot more common to compensate.

And agreed on the new warding being hilariously bad for the same reasons few people use distortion: It annoys more than it helps, and removing can gently caress you over.

e: Also, maybe this should have been an experimental branch first? This is a lot of huge changes to just dump into trunk. Bigger than adding Pakellas or tweaking elf/orc.

Haifisch fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Nov 30, 2015

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 06:01

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

And make sure that if you have to keep nerfing tactics for a challenge, it's always the player's fault and not the challenge's design. (I'm looking at you, V5. Pretty much every nerf is skirting around the fact that doing anything but staying in the initial ambush is the best way to go. Same with the Elf 3 killholing saga.)

The Mattybee posted:

"Bunch of people complaining about stupid changes? Bet it's Lasty!"

And watch it get handwaved away as whining instead of calling out legitimately bad changes.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 06:22

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Internet Kraken posted:

I like how the commit says warding was the least interesting amulet. Rather than gourmand, which gives the exciting effect of EAT MORE FOOD.

Don't worry, they'll make it so swapping it out sets you to Fainting status.

The Mattybee posted:

Tactics such as "gently caress you, melee".

Lasty really, REALLY hates melee characters, apparently.

And equipment swapping. And possibly fun in general.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 06:37

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Someone Awful! posted:

Honestly I kinda liked warding for situations like curse skulls/elf:3/literally anything that summoned, but maybe I'm the only one who thought it was half-decent

Same. People tended to underestimate how useful the warding part of it was. The rN+ was just a cherry on top.

The Mattybee posted:

Idk what tactics a melee guy is supposed to use again malmutators without rMut.

Bolt wands. Rods.

That's pretty much it.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 06:41

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

The Mattybee posted:

Stairdancing/pressing 5: INTERESTING PLAY

Interesting play is code for "the exact strategy the devs wanted you to use."

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 06:44

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

*Drain is tolerable if it's something you'd literally never take off.

Otherwise, yeah. The "offset good properties with bad"(or vice versa) didn't really work, because the bad properties are so bad you're never going to use them.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 06:56

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

*Drain is just when removed, but the rest only happen as you take hits.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 07:01

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Heithinn Grasida posted:

I feel like these changes indicate a major disconnect from what most people's experience of the game actually is. Another change in the same spirit would be to bring back equipment destruction.

I'm reminded of a tavern post I saw complaining about the regen spell and its "main use" for speeding up post-battle healing. One of the first replies was to the effect of "...that's not what regen's for at all", but still.

I think at some point some people end up in a weird bubble of their own specific playstyle, and forget how everyone else plays.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 08:23

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

On a lighter note, Spark Wasps just got toned down:
-They blinkbolt a lot less, and they only do it at range. This also added the option for monsters to only do things close up/at range, which will surely have lots of Fun effects.
-Their pack size and spawn weight both went down.

Now for Death Cob hungering to get toned down...

Floodkiller posted:

I probably wouldn't have gone on a heckling tirade if I had known that development page existed, which explained that malmutation was in fact being worked on instead of, as the patch implied, the devs just removing rMut and saying "have fun". Sticking your hand into the den of rabid raccoons probably isn't the smartest idea, but sometimes I would just like to see a bit more communication and insight into why something is being implemented, instead of just dropping a half-completed reform on everyone with only commit messages and code changes to understand why. Even a pastebin of an IRC conversation would be better than hoping to decipher the reasoning behind a commit sometimes.

Adding a link to the development plan on the changelogs would be a good idea, although I'm not sure how well that'd work with the current changelog sites. The downside would be people freaking out about ideas on the development plan that may never see the light of day, but the devs are used to that anyway. Better to have the entire plan in the open instead of going "lol we're changing a bunch of poo poo and not adequately explaining why in the commits".

The new malmutation plan does make the rMut changes make more sense, although they should have changed that along with rMut removal. The ranged weapon proposals seem iffy, but there's no point in worrying about it until they actually start making changes.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 07:22

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

odiv posted:

Wha? Am I misreading this or did it take out ctrl-s? How am I supposed to be quitting my game?

Oh hey, shift-s saves and quits, but with a prompt. I never knew that. Why would you bother taking out ctrl-s though? What use is a prompt? If you change your mind it takes less than a second to get back in.

I honestly never knew ctrl-s was a thing until this change/reversion of the change. :shrug:

But it's not like it's something you'd accidentally do(few things in crawl use ctrl in the first place, and the only thing near s that does is the autopickup toggle), so I'm not sure why it was removed even temporarily.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 19:17

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Darox posted:

I am apparently playing a different game because I wear amulets of regeneration during fights and in fact use them over any other basic amulet unless I really need the resist.

That's the game where you're not trying to shave a few turns off your turncount for points.

I don't dislike speedrunners, but I also do not understand them.

Darox posted:

Instead of ruining good amulets I would ask devs to use their evil powers to remove the demonic guardian & mana shield DS mutations. I've been playing a bunch of DSAEs lately and seeing "you summon hostile demons when threatened" or "monsters drain your mana when attacking" is not at all fun. The second level of mana shield is actually really good if it actually shows up before xl20+ but then you get the third level which is also a liability.

Demonic guardian got a lot better since they ignore your ranged attacks now. Mana shield's usefulness varies wildly with your build, but that's to be expected with Ds mutations.

# ¿ Dec 2, 2015 07:19

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

And if the actual Teleport Other is annoying you(although it's generally not that dangerous outside of Snake 4), you need more MR. This is also the point in the game where you start needing alternate options against enemies that gently caress around with basic escape strategies(walking away, blinking).

Basically it's sounding like you're not prepared for midgame, and it caught up with you in Snake. Snake is always going to be worse than usual for EV builds just because of how much constriction there is, but it shouldn't be insurmountable. It's hard to say more than that without seeing your character dump.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2015 18:52

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

the Orb of Zot posted:

EDIT: Oh my god I didn't know how much I wanted this until they did it, this is the best change ever:

http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commit;h=f87b446f537d61ba902acce9665fb1a922376a72

You mean I don't have to manually go to the closest upstairs on each level for the orb run now? RIP meaningless tedium.

The only downside is not knowing which stairs you've actually taken, but 99% of what that does(making sure you don't go back into danger if multiple upstairs are close to each other) can be replaced by hitting ] or [ on shift-x.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2015 20:15

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Dee Ehm posted:

From what I understand, this started with a discussion on a tavern that basically posited that Faith was by far the strongest amulet in the game and a no-brainer for most characters

...for a select handful of gods. Faith sure as poo poo isn't a no-brainer if you worship Veh, or Ash, or Sif, or any other gods that don't rely on spamming piety-consuming abilities.

Hell, I'd argue it's not a no-brainer even for the gods that do have spammable abilities. Either their abilities don't eat up that much piety for how often you use them, or you'd have to be building a character around spamming certain abilities(or dealing with a bad enough character that you're forced to spam abilities). How useful Faith is for Makh depends on how much you're using demons/Greater Destruction, Faith isn't worth it for Oka unless you're really desperate for gifts or over-relying on Finesse, Lucy's Banish doesn't eat that much piety if you're not overusing it, etc.

Trog's the only god where I'd say Faith truly is a no-brainer, since piety's tied so heavily to the effectiveness of BOA and meaningfully limits your Trog's Hand spam.

HisMajestyBOB posted:

I'm still surprised that there's players who think the only use of Regeneration is while resting. In Hell, sure, but outside of that it's more useful in combat.

Dee Ehm posted:

I like to stack sources of regeneration on most of my characters. It's harder to lose when you have hit points coming out of your ears.

I don't think the claim was that it was useless outside of resting, just that there was no reason not to swap to it, and therefore a reason not to switch needed to be added.

One thing I have seen is the claim that Guardian Spirit is actually more useful than Regen for in-combat HP purposes. Which may be true for some characters, but not ones that want to be casting mid-combat. It can also create dangerous situations if you have god powers that need MP.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2015 19:16

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Arivia posted:

edit: What's a good breakpoint to skill Evocations to? I started picking up rods, so I worked on it to 10, but I wasn't sure exactly what I should be aiming for.

27.

More realistically for your typical character, I'd say 14 or so. It depends a bit on exactly what your evocables are, but that's enough for Rods of Clouds to make decent clouds, elemental evokers to give you 2 elementals instead of 1, Sack of Spiders to give you decent spiders, etc.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2015 21:02

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Slaying also drops off as weapon base damage/enchants increase, so early slaying is incredible. Late slaying not so much, unless you stack up a shitton of it(or are using short blades for some reason).

# ¿ Dec 8, 2015 06:57

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

A lot of the difficulty of Shoals is an equipment check like the other lair branches. It's just that instead of a small handful of resists it's invis, flying, rmsl, and ranged attacks of your own.

Bad times for AC-heavy melee guys who haven't branched out yet, in other words. :v:

# ¿ Dec 9, 2015 02:32

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 01:12

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Sage Grimm posted:

Stealth is not useless in extended. It's actually amazing anywhere that's not Hell (has a tendency of dropping enemies directly on top of you) and Ziggurats (small arenas). You can lose particularly nasty enemies by breaking Line of Sight faster which makes kiting techniques better if you aren't being noisy every step of the way.

Don't forget the ability to fight one or two enemies without drawing an entire pack, unless that's what you meant by 'kiting techniques'.

quote:

And you can sneaky sneak the runes right out from underneath the named princes which is better for your score than trying to kill them.

Although this one is questionable now that pan lords chase you through pan. It's generally easier fighting them in their home levels than fighting them on top of whatever else is spawning on a different level.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2015 19:59

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl 0.17: Corn enemies no longer popcorn

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