USPOL Dec: The War on Christmas -- Just another example of the War on Coal

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL Dec: The War on Christmas -- Just another example of the War on Coal

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Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

zoux posted:

You think that he's the only one falsely inflating the price of a drug or procedure, or do you think that's literally every pharma and medical company in America?

I think it's more the sheer audacity of it with this guy. 5000% was the number I think? It's going to be bad if the pharma companies realize they can get away with even more than they already do.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 16:46

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 20:11

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

BetterToRuleInHell posted:

It's hard to cut Obama slack when he's been actively opposing sending in any significant amount of force to directly confront ISIS. It's not just 'he's doing something he said he wasn't', he has repeatedly said it's the objectively wrong thing to do.

Is D&D going to be so chill when he approves of sending in actual ground troops in six or eight months? (Silly question, I know the answer)

It's almost as if situations can change and hurling the full weight of the U.S. Military at random countries on a loving whim isn't the best approach to foreign affairs. Wantonly invading soverign nations without international agreement is objectively the wrong thing to do.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 19:28

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Aren't special forces raids and air strikes the most effective counter-terror methods to date? Seems like this would be rather relevant to the current strategy.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 19:42

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

SedanChair posted:

Yes, most people don't realize we have hundreds of bases around the globe. They wouldn't approve if they were able to learn it.

The internet exists for most Americans. Knowing someone in the armed forces makes up for the rest.

Come on buddy.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 19:48

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

zoux posted:

It's actually people, I'm afraid.

This is what worries me. When so much of the American public straight up hates muslims and "muslim sympathizers" (Thanks heavily armed Texas lunatic militia!), what are the rest of us supposed to do to stop it? Can it be stopped?

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 20:46

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

zoux posted:

Whatever you do don't read about European history from the period of 1933-1945.

I'm unfortunately extremely well versed in the subject (I've even met Elie Wiesel!). Thus my serious concern with recent politics.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 20:51

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Fried Chicken posted:

Republican House and Senate have just agreed to a $305 bln 5-year highway bill

Reminder that Hillary announced her $275 B 5-year plan the other day

What helpful legislation are they dismantiling with it?

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 21:16

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

LGD posted:

Uh, not to belabor the obvious, but it's also an ideological/cultural/religious commitment rather than an inborn characteristic and is currently associated with multiple highly-visible organizations that are inimical to western civil society/culture (and whose hostility is openly claimed to be based on those groups' interpretations of Islam).

It's the second coming of the Red Scare, complete with armed morons threatening to "stop them" but with actual "Reds" (read: Muslims) to target and harass this time instead of simply inferring that anyone who disagrees with their right wing bullshit as one.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 22:42

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Captain_Maclaine posted:

Third. We've had two red scares already.

Looks like you're correct. Also, holy poo poo Joe McCarthy looks like Ted Cruz pre-melted face.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 22:46

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

LGD posted:

It's not like we haven't had multiple previous waves of nativist concern over immigrants and their religious beliefs, why make extremely strained parallels to the Red Scare(s) when there are much more apt historical comparisons?

It was the armed loons in Texas putting out the home addresses of "Muslims and Muslim sympathizers."

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 23:16

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

I stared into the abyss of a Donald Trump related CNN comment section, and leave it bewildered. What is the appeal of being a mean spirited rear end in a top hat? Worse, taking pride in being "un-PC", which really only translates to kicking people who are already down?

Secondly, where do they get this poo poo? It's not in the bible to be that way. It's not in children's programming. Hell, most media in general has some sort of "don't be a raging rear end in a top hat" vibe.

# ¿ Dec 2, 2015 15:54

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Old James posted:

Yet when you travel for your cushy job, you are always the one "randomly selected" for an extra security check. On the Internet (and perhaps also in public) you are called "Mohammed", the enemy, or a towel-head. And in the public debate you hear people advocating the wholesale genocide of your parents' homeland by "glassing the Middle East". Although you have lived your whole life in the USA it feels hostile to you. And you do love your grandma and cousins back in the old country and want to protect them.

Basically the right wing hate machine is ISIS's recruiting department.

You would think that sort of activity would lead someone to attack the U.S. military. Or Republicans. Or even the Federal government itself. But random innocents? That's what never parses for me. I would hate the people who were doing it to me instead of folks going about their lives. Maybe that's what happened here, as he worked with them.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2015 19:12

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

zoux posted:

The connections to Islamic fundamentalism were FB likes

Well they did explain that that was why they didn't pursue further investigations.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2015 21:40

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

TheDisreputableDog posted:

Tbf it's tough to make this call if you aren't allowed to say the words "radical Islamic terrorism".

Jesus you're pissy. Every post is like a nine year old little sister taunting to get one over on someone. If you've got an arguement, make it. Otherwise :fuckoff:

# ¿ Dec 3, 2015 22:11

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

TheDisreputableDog posted:

Is this an example of a "good" substantive post I should be aiming for?

And the point is, how can the administration protect us from a movement they steadfastly refuse to recognize or label.

No. It's one calling out your bullshit for what it is, to get you to either stop, or contribute.

The administration doesn't refuse to label things as terrorism or islamic terror. This narrative is false. The current administration waits until the facts are known to declare it terrorism to avoid the inevitable panic. Even George Bush was prudent in his attempts to avoid stirring up the mob to attack Muslim-Americans.

TheDisreputableDog posted:

Let's not provoke ISIS because they might... hate us more?

This type of thinking is why literally every global hotspot is way worse now than 6 years ago.

The reason isn't about "provoking" ISIS. Nothing we do will prevent that. What the coalition is currently attempting to do is prevent increasing their recruitment via harsh treatment of Muslim citizens already living in our nations. Without that harsh treatment and islamophobia, their propaganda comes off as false. It dries up their recruitment numbers. Putting "Boots on the ground" in the colloquial sense (Invasion and infantry combat) would only increase civilian casualties (as proven by the Iraq war), Insurgencies (Iraq war), domestic casualties (Iraq war) and resentment of an occupying force. All of which increase ISIS's ability to recruit. Not to mention that the most effective means of counterterror, as proven by the past 15 years, is special operations raids and airstrikes (whether traditional or drone).

# ¿ Dec 3, 2015 22:54

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

TheDisreputableDog posted:

You are arguing the drone program is a good thing that prevents people from hating us and decreases ISIS recruitment.

Do I have that right?

Compared to an occupation force, yes. Personally, I'd only use it on troop formations.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2015 23:14

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Unzip and Attack posted:

The distinction you're trying to make isn't convincing. The dude that shot up PP is no less scary because he's white. Normal, peaceful Muslims look at yesterday's shooters and think "those people are crazy" and they are 100% right.

The problem is we would find the ranting, wild eyed lunatic who shot up PP scary even before he did it. These two were a seemingly normal couple with a loving newborn. It's a pretty clear distinction.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 00:44

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

TheDisreputableDog posted:

The FBI just said it was terrorism.

But still, do we really know...?

That'd make it official...you know, a good thing to wait for so you don't incite rednecks to go around lynching every muslim they can catch. That baby is innocent, as is the family. With their information being blasted around, they're not safe. They're not safe because of islamphobic morons like Trump stirring up the mob.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 20:29

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

SedanChair posted:

Jesus christ, they're vipers

I was gonna go with Jackals.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 20:30

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

That's just a contrived invention though.

Not really. The motivations for a crime on that scale are essential to prevention. For example; a Palestinian member of Hamas blowing up an Israeli patrol isn't insane or a mass-murderer, though they are defined as terrorists, as they are without a recognized state.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 20:36

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

euphronius posted:

Palestine is a recognized state.

Hamas is considered a terrorist organization though. And it's not recognized by Israel, which is where the victims in this case would hail from.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 20:39

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

spacetoaster posted:

Is this something that's happening? I haven't heard of any lynchings of muslims in the south, but maybe you could link something for us?

I do know that anti-theists are liable to just up and shoot a bunch of muslim kids.

The current environment in the U.S. has become very concerning, with the front runner of one of the two major political parties calling for identification, tracking, internment, closing of mosques and killing the family members of terrorists. Saying these things hasn't hurt him, it's bolstered his support. The current (and former!) administration is doing it's best to avoid more murders and assaults than have already happened, by not jumping to conclusions before the evidence is in.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 20:55

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

euphronius posted:

They were already married.

Also that's incredibly racist.

Even agreeing with you for the most part (it's certainly flippant), why is this racist? I thought it was a religious motivation for Islamic suicide attackers. Unless it's just bullshit propaganda that's been going about for the past 30 years.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 21:03

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Evil Fluffy posted:

State-sponsored terrorism is a very real thing that exists. Terrorism is in no way dependent on being carried out by a non state actor.

True, I had forgotten that. But I was under the impression that war on a nation without a state was considered terrorism by definiton as well.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 21:07

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

euphronius posted:

Are you doing that right wing troll thing where you don't understand what words mean.

He might be somewhat genuine on this question. It was sophmoric and too simplistic, and likely insulting (to the deceased at least so meh?) but I don't see how it's racism either. As again, isn't a major Jihadi suicide attack motivation the virgins in heaven bit?

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 21:12

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Trabisnikof posted:

I am not an expert, but I'm pretty sure that's vastly overblown compared to the alienation, lack of hope, etc usually behind radicalization.

That's what I'm wondering, if it's just propaganda that's been going on for a very long time. Though lack of hope doesn't really make sense in the San Bernadino shooting. They have a newborn baby, a steady job, etc. Alienation I can see, but it's not like you see any of the other immigrant groups that get poo poo on (Latino's especially) commiting mass shootings. Radicalization of second generation people with promising lives and educations is really bewildering.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 21:20

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

euphronius posted:

Latin America is not currently being destroyed by American forces and allies.

It was though. A lot.

McDowell posted:

His wife had emigrated fairly recently.

Adam Lanza was just as sane as the 9/11 hijackers.

Murdering children face to face is a far cry from flying planes into buildings. They may have been "crazy", but Lanza was beyond loving nuts. Same with that bastard Assange.

Dr Christmas posted:

Um, I think you mean Anders Brevikh, not Julian Assange.

Yes! Sorry, I always get the two confused somehow.

You can be both insane and a terrorist (PP shooter was a wild eyed lunatic), and sane and a terrorist (Hamas/Hezbollah fighters) and a murderer and sane and not a terrorist (Most people convicted of 2nd degree murder). It all depends on the circumstances, even if some rear end in a top hat groups try to pretend that the Insane PP shooter wasn't also influenced by a poisonous ideology that convinced him that PP and Obama were evil.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 21:59

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

fknlo posted:

I think you'll find that they were muslims and therefore defacto members of ISIS.

I still wish they'd elaborate a little on what made them decide it was terrorism.

Probably the bombs. They pretty well imply a plan to attack something.

This would go if they were white, black, chinese or Native American.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 22:08

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Sydin posted:

Can I purchase fertilizer if I'm on the terrorist watch list?

They certainly pay attention to that purchase, that's for sure. That might even be enough to get a warrant to tap your phones, monitor your Internet traffic, etc.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2015 00:47

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Teddybear posted:

A guy on reddit, newly free of an NDA with the bookseller's company, is claiming that Mitt Romney was utterly convinced the President's trip to Utah earlier this year was a multimillion dollar elaborate smokescreen to crash a booksigning that Ann was holding on the same day, to the point of increasing security and demanding that the President not be allowed into the building.

Let's play the "how much of this is bullshit" game!

Every time I see Ann Romney's name in print, it involves her ever increasing sense of self importance.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2015 18:30

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

zoux posted:

Here's a good article about how volatile the Iowa caucus voters are, even up until the day of. So bookmark this the next time an Iowa poll convinces you that Carson is gonna be president.

I mean, these are the people who voted for the candidate who assured them that she knows how to castrate a hog after all.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2015 19:23

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

do these people even know what Marxist means? and that trump was parodied long before his political maneuvers

what do they want. do they want the US to drop a couple of thousand troops down there and have another war in iraq? I mean i think they are stupid fuckheads, but i wondering is airstrikes and spec ops is going to be enough. If we have to play world police, i would rather do it under a liberal then whatever the GOP puts out.

They want to shout loudly about how Obama is weak, and no matter what he does, they will act as if it's not enough, in a pissy attempt to seem more manly.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2015 21:07

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Salt Fish posted:

It's hilarious how hard everyone is trying to discredit Trump. Some of the things he is suggesting, like having a list of immigrants and what religion they practice, are things that we are probably already doing. I mean, Americans are fine with the government keeping lists of ever website every citizen views, and keeping the track of every cell phone call ever made but somehow its reprehensible to propose that we track what foreign visitors are doing? 100% guarantee we're already doing that.

It's one thing to do it in secret, with vague legality for the purpose of national security, than to do it while stirring up the nation into a frothing mass that advocates ethnic cleansing. We all knew that the CIA does shady poo poo. The NSA has always been Big Brother. Snowden thinks he's some grand whistle blower, but all he did was point at an inconvenient truth about what it takes to run a nation of this size.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2015 15:24

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Talmonis posted:

It's one thing to do it in secret, with vague legality for the purpose of national security, than to do it while stirring up the nation into a frothing mass that advocates ethnic cleansing. We all knew that the CIA does shady poo poo. The NSA has always been Big Brother. Snowden thinks he's some grand whistle blower, but all he did was point at an inconvenient truth about what it takes to run a nation of this size.

To elaborate a bit on this (I was phone posting), the American people should absolutely be embarassed by this sort of thing when it comes out into the light. It should repulse you. It's why every decent nation hides it's dirty laundry, rather than wear it like a badge of pride. You don't cheer when the FBI tricks a young radicalized man into trying to commit a terrorist attack with fake bombs, you thank your lucky stars that the idiot didn't get a hold of the real deal. When the NSA has moles in a mosque, you don't parade that poo poo on the news like it's an indictment of all involved, it's awful that it seems nessecary to do that, and embarrassing for the mosque and the patrons who are more than likely just going about their daily lives trying to worship in peace.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2015 15:44

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Full Battle Rattle posted:

Dick Cheney, like most republicans, was fine with all of this as long as nobody said it in the open.

To be fair, that's the difference between the United States and Germany, circa 1940's. That openness and tendency to go to extremes and be proud of it, shows a willingness to go way too far.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2015 15:47

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Radbot posted:

Do we have any evidence that this surveillance is effective, or that it does indeed need to be done to "run a nation of this size"?

I mean, if we did it would likely be classified. Though we do have the examples of the FBI stings working to thwart the stupid home grown radicalized folks. Oh, and the downfall of the KKK.

Kilroy posted:

All international calls and emails are being recorded, so that doesn't qualify as "extra" tabs. It's just tabs, just like everyone else.

God bless the panopticon. :911:

# ¿ Dec 8, 2015 15:59

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Radbot posted:

So what's the smug "gotta break some eggs to make an omelette" attitude about? I fail to see how "maybe one time it worked" rises to the level of "inconvenient truth".

Smug? Nah man. I just find it odd that anyone pretends to be surprised about it. Spying and general espionage, foreign and domestic, has been going on for as long as we've been using bronze tools.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2015 16:23

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 20:11

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

TheDisreputableDog posted:

What if Obama recognized he was wrong at nearly every step, completely underestimated ISIS when they were forming, called them contained a month ago, said they weren't a threat here two weeks ago, and admitted that "we're going to do more of what we've been doing, trust me it's fine" is milquetoast and nobody believes it?

"Nobody believes it." :allears:

# ¿ Dec 8, 2015 16:24

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL Dec: The War on Christmas -- Just another example of the War on Coal

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