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shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020

rscott posted:

I don't really think that's the most reasonable way to interpret what Biden said, the United States isn't putting any infrastructure on the ground

If you build a piece of infrastructure that's just right next to the ground and, in fact, connects to it via a bridge that you also build, saying it's not putting any infrastructure 'on the ground' seems like splitting hairs to me?

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shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020

Civilized Fishbot posted:

Is there any writing on influence/lack of influence of South African apartheid system/ideology on the development of Israeli caste system/ideology? I typically understand everything wrong with Israel as the inevitable conclusion to "land without a people" ideology in a land that is, in fact, full of people. Basically that this is the only road Zionism could have taken once executed in Palestine - but maybe that's discounting the influence of ally states in forming the current regime?

I'd be interested in this too, but my general understanding was not so much that South Africa influenced Israel this way (or vice versa) but that they both recognized that they were running similar ideologies and systems and so made common cause. I've read some previously about the long relationship but not much on the influence each country had on the other's internal politics, which might be interesting if there's a good book on it.

shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020

Young Freud posted:

There's at least one makeshift pier that's been delivering food and water to Gaza. A World Central Kitchen relief barge delivered about 115 tons of food, after going IDF inspections.
https://x.com/manniefabian/status/1768696074259095890?s=20
It is merely a drop in the bucket in the ocean of what Gazan's need but if Biden was serious about establishing a sealink for aid relief, we would be doing it now.

Setting up an actual pier to do heavy-duty food shipments will be a good thing if it actually happens, in fifty days or so. After a ton of Gazans have starved to death. It's a pretty ridiculous response compared to putting actual pressure on the Israelis as they continue to bomb and blockade aid from entering, but at least it'll be something.

shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020

quote:

Israel esse delandum

Iudaea delenda est is a better translation given the Roman province name and more comprehensible given the common 'Carthago delenda est' construction, although that obviously also includes Palestine. If you're going to just slap Israel in why would you change the conjugation? "Israel to destroy" is what you came up with, more or less.

I know the forum rules are meeting effort with effort but the old-school D&D 'quote parts of a post and do point by point' is almost impossible to parse for people who weren't the respondent. Can you perhaps summarize your point?

Ceterum, censeo Iudaeam esse delendam.

shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020

quote:

Over the years, President Abbas has evaded the democratic process, declining to hold elections for over a decade and failing to empower future leadership.

How accurate is this? I know that Israel controls the ability of Gaza and the West Bank to hold elections and I was under the impression that they wouldn't allow elections to be held because Hamas would almost certainly win them. Or, rather, win them again.

shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020
Thanks for everyone who helped explain more about the internal Palestinian political situation, that helps refine my understanding considerably.

shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020

Quantum Cat posted:

Let's see what Francesca Albanese, the UN Special Rapporteur on the Occupied Palestinian Territories, has to say these days...
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRTy9Db6/


Edit: Here's the link to the report itself.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/documents/country-reports/ahrc5573-report-special-rapporteur-situation-human-rights-palestinian

Thank you for the link to the actual report, you can't watch tiktoks without an account and I didn't really feel like making one. It might help in the future to also just do a pull quote for people who are unlikely to follow the link, so I'm going to block quote the summary here:

quote:

After five months of military operations, Israel has destroyed Gaza. Over 30,000 Palestinians have been killed, including more than 13,000 children. Over 12,000 are presumed dead and 71,000 injured, many with life-changing mutilations. Seventy percent of residential areas have been destroyed. Eighty percent of the whole population has been forcibly displaced. Thousands of families have lost loved ones or have been wiped out. Many could not bury and mourn their relatives, forced instead to leave their bodies decomposing in homes, in the street or under the rubble. Thousands have been detained and systematically subjected to inhuman and degrading treatment. The incalculable collective trauma will be experienced for generations to come.

By analysing the patterns of violence and Israel’s policies in its onslaught on Gaza, this report concludes that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the threshold indicating Israel’s commission of genocide is met. One of the key findings is that Israel's executive and military leadership and soldiers have intentionally distorted jus in bello principles, subverting their protective functions, in an attempt to legitimize genocidal violence against the Palestinian people.

shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020
Isn't private messaging a paid feature on these forums? That seems kind of lovely to require people pay to complain about a moderation decision, and probating people if they don't have access to that feature and complain in other venues. From a quick skim if I'm understanding it right Esran also doesn't have the PM feature so saying "just PM me" in a probe reason seems kind of disingenuous.

I'd have PMed you this but I'm not going to spend :10bux: to do so. Probe me for this one if you need to I guess.

Quantum Cat posted:

ICJ orders Israel to stop preventing ‘delivery of urgently needed’ aid

While I somehow doubt the same genocidal state that's allowing its heavily propagandized and most bloodthirsty citizens to set up bouncy castles and hold parties celebrating the genocide at border crossings in order to block desperately needed aid is going to abide by this, it's nice to see the wheels of international justice begining to turn against Israel.

I was curious and dug into the case a bit more.

quote:

The court also adopted by a 15-1 vote an order to “ensure with immediate effect that [the Israeli] military does not commit acts which constitute a violation of any of the rights of the Palestinians in Gaza as a protected group under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, including by preventing, through any action, the delivery of urgently needed humanitarian assistance”.

The vote against was from an Israeli judge, unsurprisingly.

shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020

DeadlyMuffin posted:

Remember the hostages who were shot whole shirtless, waving a white flag, and shouting in Hebrew?

The IDF indiscriminately shooting everything that moves seems like it satisfies Occam's razor a bit better.

I don't think that actually contradicts punishedkissinger. If you're not trying to do that then my apologies, but I do think that kissinger's explanation of the events makes the most sense as a response to Irony Be My Shield's question.

quote:

1. They deliberately went after the convoy in order to discourage future aid to Gaza. The WCK has announced that it's stopped operations following the strike. I do think that starvation has increasingly become a part of Israel's strategy for this war, and this would be a way to do that, although killing foreign aid workers seems like a worst diplomatic cost for them to incur than simply preventing them from entering in the first place. I also don't think Israel would want to spectacularly burn all bridges with an aid organisation when they're trying to push for such organisations to replace UNRWA.

2. The IDF is targeting drat near everything that moves without making any kind of checks on what it is. I think this is more likely, as it fits with the IDF's previous killing of 3 hostages attempting to escape and many other strikes in the war.

These aren't, strictly speaking, incompatible viewpoints. As you note, the starvation has been a part of Israel's strategy for the war and has become more and more significant over time, although there have always been elements of this in how Gaza and the West Bank have been treated. I also think that the diplomatic efforts which have been pushed to try to eject the UNRWA and worsen the starvation, as well as pointing at specific aid agencies like WCK to replace them even though they cannot possibly do so on short notice or for the amount of throughput required, has been part of the high-level strategy by some of the Israeli leadership.

But none of the matters to the soldiers on the ground, who would have to see, understand, and agree with these higher-level machinations, or the society at large, which has much the same issue.

I doubt that in the end there was ever any explicit order coming down from the top to kill these aid workers, specifically. I just think that the Israelis want to kill everyone in Gaza, and the people in charge of actually doing the shooting know that they will not be punished - and are usually even rewarded - for doing so, no matter how heinous the action.

That's not really any better though, that's actually worse in a lot of ways! There's no way for them to say "don't target these people, they're safe/verified/aid workers/whatever" because as long as they're a living person in Gaza they're already a target.

shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020
Some missing context here if you're unfamiliar with him is that Ismail Haniyeh is the political head of Hamas, rather than a military leader, and is heavily involved in the ceasefire talks. One might think that assassinating his children and grandchildren on a holiday would indicate that the Israeli government is, perhaps, not fully on board with the prospect of a ceasefire.

shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020

Sephyr posted:

I'm seeing some videos of things escalating in the West Bank. Bulldozers knocking israeli-built walls and fences, people marching, protests, etc. It's not an Oct 7 event, for obvious reasons, but it seems hotter than the region has been in years.

Somewhat unsurprising that people might start responding if, for example, settlers were marching through the area and shooting people and destroying homes under the aegis of the IDF, which has been happening.

Euphoriaphone posted:

Also known as the DoorDash style of tipping. Yeah, technically you can say 100% of your tip goes to the driver. If you tip $5, DD might payout $4 for the order. If you tip $10 for the same order, DD might only payout $1

This is totally thread unrelated but do you have a source talking about this, because I hadn't heard that they do this.

shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020
The US having a law on the books requiring them to veto Palestinian statehood or defund the UN for the past thirty years is definitely a twist I was not expecting, considering how long there's been talk about two state solutions.

shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020

Sir John Falstaff posted:

Which sanctions were rescinded? Some at least are apparently still in place, and they announced new ones yesterday:

https://apnews.com/article/gaza-israel-west-bank-war-settlers-sanctions-3d1a6595f7c4cecaa42de7901c81c752

All of them, essentially.

quote:

The US informed Israel this week that the Biden administration’s sanctions against violent settlers are not intended to compel Israeli banks to close the accounts of targeted individuals, an Israeli official told The Times of Israel.

The clarification, sent in a letter from the US Treasury Department to the Bank of Israel and obtained by The Times of Israel, is intended to cool anger from Israel’s treasury chief over the fact that sanctioned individuals had lost access to local banking services, due to fears of violating the US penalties.

Several major banks froze the accounts of those slapped with sanctions by US President Joe Biden’s administration earlier this year after the White House determined that the Israeli government was systematically failing to clamp down on settler violence.

Article here.

shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020

tagesschau posted:

So, no, certainly not all of them.

It's a little more complicated than that -

quote:

We would consider the following types of basic living expenses and subsistence payments to be
within the scope of this guidance: food; medical care and associated health insurance; childcare;
basic housing; basic education; basic transportation; medical care and insurance; utilities; funeral
expenses; and taxes or fees paid to the Israeli government.

It does explicitly cut them off from crowdfunding, and it remains to be seen how the US will interact with the banks if they let the settlers kind of just do whatever except throw up a GoFundMe, but you're right about your main point. I had misremembered the details of the decision and conflated it with some of the Israeli Finance Minister's statements last month, so I just skimmed the article to confirm it contained what I thought it did but didn't fully reread it. I was being too glib, so I apologize for that.

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shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020

Really giving a new meaning to the term 'shooting and crying' there.

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