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Has JJ Abrams said anything about his philosophy or intentions for VII?
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Dec 14, 2015 19:07
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Frackie Robinson posted:The prequels were all about telling the fans that they really need to grow up, get laid, and set childish things aside, so I imagine the new ones will be, "no, it's still okay to like Star Wars, you're not a man-child, this is all as cool as you remember" I don't know, the prequels kind of went out of their way to make jedis look cool and make getting laid look like a horrible ordeal that causes the protagonist's downfall. Unless you mean they made people grow up by not liking Star Wars anymore.
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Dec 14, 2015 20:52
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Dec 14, 2015 21:05
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My favorite ideas for making the prequels better are still Belated Media's. I assume everyone here has seen them.
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Dec 14, 2015 21:19
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Zoran posted:The prequels go out of their way to much make the Jedi look cool, but also show them to be arrogant and out-of-touch. Anakin doesn't fall because he gets laid, he falls because he has a whole bunch of emotional hangups that nobody in the Order can help him with. They're really explicit about Anakin's attachment to Padme being against the rules of the jedi order and being the thing that lets the dark side into him. She's the lever Sidious uses. Plus the jedi being arrogant and out of touch is what makes them so cool/appealing. Remember the scene in ANH where some commandante starts chastising Vader about being obsessed with the force and loving up the war so Vader chokes him? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzs-OvfG8tE&t=78s It makes him look like a badass and he eventually turns out to be right.
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Dec 14, 2015 21:34
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Zoran posted:Repeat after me: the Jedi are wrong. Their philosophy causes all sorts of problems in the prequels, and then Luke proves them wrong once and for all in the original trilogy. Are you sure? Luke doesn't hook up or anything. What specific things the jedi do or say are made dramatically ironic by Luke later? Zoran posted:I just watched the TPM one. Personally, I think the number one red flag in prequel criticism is when someone says that Jar-Jar was "not important." Annoying? Sure! Some of the jokes involving him fell flat? Yep! But not important? Qui-Gon sees value in him when no one else (including the audience and also all the other characters) does. Eventually, it's Jar-Jar who shows Amidala that the solution to her problem was in front of her the whole time. Padmé didn't need to go to Coruscant and she didn't need to put Palpatine in power, but she did, just because her society was too racist to even consider asking the Gungans for help. Padmé's breakthrough is in overcoming her own prejudices, and it only happens because Qui-Gon kept Jar-Jar around. Hold up, I gotta ask you to be patient with me because I haven't seen the prequels in a while. What solution to what problem? And when is she actually shown overcoming her prejudices? And does Qui-Gon ever give a reason for having Jar-Jar around?
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Dec 14, 2015 21:58
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Zoran posted:Luke's journey is about not just becoming a Jedi but using love to overcome evil. It's Luke's attachment to his long-lost father that leads him to ignore the advice of Obi-Wan and Yoda in ROTJ, and he turns out to be right. Isn't the one where he ignores their advice Empire? And he turns out to be wrong and walking into a trap? Basebf555 posted:It's not so much that the Jedi are wrong on any specific point, its that they are overly dogmatic and also hypocritical on top of it. The fact that Anakin loves Padme isn't what leads to him falling to the Dark Side, its that he's been conditioned by the Jedi to think he's committing some sort of sin. The secrecy they force him and Padme into directly results in his vulnerability to Palpatine. You can look at the plot and say that, but I don't think the conclusion really fits with the storytelling. Maybe it's because it's been so long since I saw it but I have a really strong memory of the move impressing upon you that Anakin's downfall is more or less caused by wanting to gently caress Padme. Basebf555 posted:As for Luke, to succeed he has to learn how to allow emotional attachment into his life without letting it control him and lead him down the wrong path. He almost fails, but turns away from the Dark Side at the very last moment. The reason he is able to do this is because he trusts that his friends will succeed and loves his father. Aren't we talking about different kinds of love though? Like, the love Luke has is Christian-style, which I don't think the jedi are against, and the love Anakin has is specifically romantic. Zoran posted:Her planet has been invaded. Nobody in her inner circle even thinks of their neighbors, who happen to have a pretty decent-sized army and are also threatened by the Trade Federation. When Padmé returns to Naboo (after Jar Jar boasts that his people are proud warriors and reminds Padmé that her people don't like his), she seeks out the Gungan leadership and begs them for help. ("We are your humble servants.") Okay that makes sense. I'd still give the Belated reworks a chance though. It's just trying to make the story more tightly focused.
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Dec 14, 2015 22:39
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weekly font posted:Colton Burpo.
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Dec 14, 2015 22:47
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Zoran posted:He actually ignores their advice in both. Yeah I liked it being about ultimate forgiveness a lot more than I liked the prequels being about Buddhist detachment. But in the end I'm still not convinced that the prequels weren't strongly saying Anakin's relationship was his downfall or were promoting love or maturity in any way. kiimo posted:I'm still at a loss as to why they changed Luke saying "You're lucky you don't taste very good" to Artoo after he gets spit out of the swamp to "You're lucky to get out of there". What the gently caress.
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Dec 15, 2015 00:19
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Okay, I admit, those reviews are getting me a little hyped.
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Dec 15, 2015 10:17
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GonSmithe posted:Yeah I totally had that weird curvy-headed brown alien as a toy for no reason other than he was a cool Alien. Wow, that is the most offensive description of John Boyega I've ever heard.
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Dec 15, 2015 22:24
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Well, I saw it. It was pretty good. The constant thematic references to the original trilogy were a bit much. For reference, I'm not a superfan but I am a fan. Yet there's only so much pandering I can take. The ending shot in particular I'd call masturbatory if it wasn't really jacking off the viewer instead. I felt like they blew their load a little too early making Rey look powerful relative to Kylo Ren, which diminished his threat for the future movies. A few things didn't make sense to me, like how Mazatha's bar/sanctuary didn't have any other ships around it, like no parking space. I don't know why I'm so stuck on that but it would have been a good visual indicator that it's inhabited, and by whom, that they whiffed for no reason. It was also hard to track the motivations of the characters around that part of the movie, like the whole thing felt stalled, but that might have been my fault. It was weird that Han Solo didn't have a funeral. Maybe there'll be one later since the end of the movie spanned too short a period of time to hold one.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:06
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Jealous Cow posted:
He's also incredibly ugly, and not in a threatening way. That goes along with his defeats/tantrums to make him a lot less threatening than Darth Vader was. Maybe that's the point? I dunno.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:07
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On second thought, they had to be making Kylo Ren pathetic on purpose. So it was wrongheaded of me to criticize that (but it does mean we need a bigger badder villain besides Snoke)
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Dec 18, 2015 06:13
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The MSJ posted:Kylo Ren is a cosplaying Vader fanboy that thinks everything old school is better, to the point that he kills all the new Jedi Luke was training . When Han Solo confronts him, telling him to take off the silly costume and please come home, he goes "gently caress you, dad" and kills Han . He's like the worst type of nerd taken to its extreme. Well, I'm definitely on Something Awful right now.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:18
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Mahoning posted:This is probably a good guess. I won't even be mad or let down if it's true, but I'd be pleasantly surprised if they went in another direction. I find myself wanting to learn the most about Rey and who she really is, who her parents are, and what exactly she's capable of/how powerful she is. I think it would be in super-bad taste because it's so obvious, that's too many family reveal twists, and we seriously don't need that level of OT echoing/rhyming. Mahoning posted:I'm also just in love with the fact that all of the marketing for this film pointed towards Finn being the "new Jedi" when it was actually Rey. Agree 100%.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:22
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Mahoning posted:Snoke also has a line at the end telling General Hux to retrieve Kylo Ren so he can complete his training, which would point to him possibly being much more powerful in the second and third films. Good point. Although one problem I still have with Rey beating Kylo is that the dark side of the force is supposed to be more powerful than the light side (at least in combat, but also in general). That's why it's so seductive and why it's meaningful not to use it.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:24
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Zoran posted:No, it is not. It's definitely implied in the OT. Otherwise why would the dark side be seductive and obsessed with power? Why would anyone go to the dark side at all?
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Dec 18, 2015 06:34
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CJ posted:If you're not a fan of rhyming, i have bad news with regard to the Star Wars Cinematic Universe. I am a fan of rhyming, it's just that there can be too much.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:39
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Cat4Tumbleweed posted:As someone who's planning on seeing the movie tomorrow night, reading this thread is like walking through a minefield. Maybe, it really depends where they go with it in Episode VIII.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:40
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Darko posted:This movie was basically the exact opposite of the prequels. The prequels were plotted well, but were missing dynamic direction and acting and dialogue to make them entertaining - this was missing a plot that made any sense at all, but was entertaining along the way. It's essentially Start Trek 09 all over again. It was entertaining, but I kept scratching my head at what was happening over and over again while watching. I had the same feeling. I loved Finn and Rey just as much as I used to love the OT characters.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:32
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One thing I totally don't get: What's the historical relationship between the Republic, First Order, and Resistance? No explanation I can come up with makes sense.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:37
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MisterBibs posted:That's the thing for me; I legitimately have no idea if we're supposed to treat Kylo Ren as a joke or not. I don't care if its him having a lightsaber hissy fit, complaining to Vader's helmet, or crying to his dad about being torn, they were all intensely comedic scenes and I'm reasonably sure I wasn't supposed to be. It's hard for the one where he cries to his dad about being torn to be comedic for obvious reasons.
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Dec 18, 2015 08:09
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MisterBibs posted:When is he menacing? He fails at everything he does. For there to be menace, there has to be the chance he'll successfully do something. I'm pretty sure if he tried force-choking someone, the victim would turn neon green instead. He stops an ion blast in midair to massacre a village, tears secrets directly from someone's mind, and pulls a force choke into a real choke.
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Dec 18, 2015 08:42
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Bongo Bill posted:The prequels, symbolically as well as literally, were what was in between the original trilogy and these sequels. The failure of love and the corruption of noble ideals may have literally happened over 50 years prior, but they also happened about ten years ago. Luke witnessed the recurrence of the tragic cycle, witnessed the Jedi incubating the seeds of their own destruction. And that's why he secluded himself. Well we're going to learn more about Kylo's motivations in the second movie probably. But I do have a feeling that yes, it will be more or less because he was seduced by the dark side of the force.
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Dec 18, 2015 09:07
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Bongo Bill posted:Anakin Skywalker was not seduced by the dark side of the Force. He had, instead, actual, non-abstract motivation for his infamous crimes. So it is with his grandson. Well, Anakin's reasons are kind of presented as just contrivances of Palpatine, twisted logic to get him over to the dark side. So I'm not sure I agree with that. As for Kylo, I'm definitely looking forward to finding out his deal.
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Dec 18, 2015 10:09
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:It's ALWAYS a good trick. Lol.
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Dec 18, 2015 10:16
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josh04 posted:Own up, which one of you wrote this. I got to "as any good student of Mao knows,"
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Dec 18, 2015 23:26
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Bongo Bill posted:It's more likely that you dislike the generally well-realized aesthetic of that trilogy, where props were constructed with a smooth and bright style, and the shots were lit evenly and framed at a moderate distance like a stage rather than up-close and high-contrast. The result of this colorful, stately design was to make physical effects that looked less "real" than the computer-generated ones, a highly significant decision in a movie about deception and illusion. Suuuuuure. Wandle Cax posted:I see you are confused, The Force Awakens is the sequel to Return of the Jedi, not Revenge of the Sith. Consult the episode numbers for further clarification. Well it's a sequel to both movies, and every other previous Star Wars movie.
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Dec 19, 2015 02:33
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Linguica posted:I love that Abrams took a perfectly understandable bad guy weapon from ANH (big thing that flies around and blows stuff up) and made it totally incomprehensible (even bigger thing that... sits there? And somehow fires a laser shotgun through hyperspace or something? And then recharges by sucking up a star? And then it must have to move at some point because now the star is dead? Idk) I didn't think it was incomprehensible. It can fire multiple lasers capable of destroying planets at the same time. It's a planet turned into a space station (the geological equivalent of a cyborg) that fuels itself with stars. That's why it's called the Starkiller. Well, one of the reasons lol. But yeah it was a really sweet and interesting weapon. Frackie Robinson posted:It seems wrong for the movie to introduce a weapon of that magnitude and have it basically be an afterthought. It blows up a planet that we know nothing about, whose loss doesn't really even register for any of our main characters. The Resistance seemingly has been asleep at the wheel while the massive undertaking of its construction has taken place, and yet the solution falls in their lap and in movie time the destroy it within about an hour of learning of its existence. Plug, the dogfight when they're trying to blow up the shield feels completely divorced from what's going with our main characters. I like Poe, but we really haven't spent enough time with him to care what he's up to while we're switching between him and the other pilots and Rey, Finn, et. al. You really could have taken the whole thing out and not have significantly altered the arc of the movie, since Luke is the real MacGuffin The loss registers a gently caress of a lot more than Alderaan did in ANH. Alderand's instantly vaporized while we watch from high orbit, and we get Obi-Wan's concerned poetry. In TFA you see the surface of the planet and everyone's fear, and we're told why the planet's important, because it's the capital of the Republic or something.
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Dec 19, 2015 10:31
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teagone posted:Adam Driver is a pretty unique looking individual. - Adam Driver's mom
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Dec 19, 2015 10:35
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My favorite part of the movie is probably how it shits right into the expanded universe's mouth. I thought the EU was stupid ever since I was like 12. (That doesn't include Knights of the Old Republic which might as well be one of the movies).
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Dec 19, 2015 10:39
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That reminds me, I've been wondering for a long time, were the prequels the same deal where they retconned the EU, or was there always dark time set aside that was off-limits to writers and the prequels filled?Kurzon posted:I remember at the end of the Yuuzhan Vong arc, the writers decided that the dark side was just an illusion and that everyone could use force lightning. Jesus gently caress.
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Dec 19, 2015 10:57
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well why not posted:It's really weird that 'Force Powers' are categorised so heavily. Force abilities are so, so nebulous in the films, but outside of that it's all Force Push this, Force Pull That, Mind Trick this, Magic Missile That. That's weird if it's in books, but not game systems since they have to be categorized like that to work.
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Dec 20, 2015 05:20
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Josh Lyman posted:The movie should have ended 15 seconds earlier. That 360* shot was stupid. It should have cut to credits with Luke removing his hood with the camera on his face. Yeah, thinking back that final shot might have been my least favorite part of the movie. I mean, it may not have aged well if they had just smash cut to black when Luke took his hood off because it's such a 2010s thing to do. Maybe a tasteful fade after a reaction shot?
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Dec 20, 2015 05:35
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jivjov posted:Star Wars never does a fade to black to credits. Its always the circular iris wipe. Well, there you go. And that reminds me, it was strangely comforting that Abrams kept the stupid wipes in.
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Dec 20, 2015 06:05
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:stop being such a whingey little baby and people won't make fun of you hth Stop using slurs and people will stop pointing out that you're using slurs.
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Dec 20, 2015 06:47
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TheFallenEvincar posted:I didn't mind the final wipe but man was Rey and Luke awkwardly silently face acting and then just holding pose pretty goofy for me. Obviously not like, a Vader No moment or anything though. I'm sure Hamill's gonna do fine. He was a great voice actor and that affects your ability to act live more than you'd think. Edit: Realized that was a spoiler.
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Dec 20, 2015 07:00
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kiimo posted:I came back to this thread and there were 15 new pages. Do he got a booty?
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Dec 21, 2015 04:06
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Dec 24, 2015 22:46
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