Auspol January: I think that young Abbott would make a really good minister

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol January: I think that young Abbott would make a really good minister

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open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Did the Sex Party write their own blurb or something?

Why are they even on the list? There are other parties of fringe idiots like Family First, the Fred Nile Group, Shooters and Fishers etc. that have more influence and they don't get a mention.

open24hours fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Jan 1, 2016

# ¿ Jan 1, 2016 14:21

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 09:08

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

You Am I posted:

They have a member in the Upper House of the Victoria Parliament, so I think they have a good enough reason to be included.

So do the DLP, and the Shooters and Fishers have two.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2016 00:07

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

quote:

The young woman at the centre of Jamie Briggs�s downfall sent a text message to his chief of staff on the morning after the late Friday night drinks session, saying she was glad the minister had ��enjoyed the program� in Hong Kong.

It was three days after the now notorious night out that the 26-year-old contacted chief of staff Stuart Eaton again, saying: �When you get a spare second could you please call me � It�s just about Friday night.�

The Weekend Australian has obtained the texts, along with a photograph of the woman with Mr Eaton taken after midnight at the bar, called Stormies, where the �minister allegedly acted �inappropriately.

Although Mr Briggs this week accepted his behaviour did not meet ministerial standards, several sources have told The Weekend Australian his forced resignation has left several government ministers concerned that the bar for acceptable conduct has been raised impossibly high.

The woman, whose name The Weekend Australian has not published to protect her privacy, told colleagues in the days after the incident that she did not want to make a formal complaint.

She did, however, make a note of Mr Briggs�s alleged behaviour at the crowded bar, which led to Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade secretary Peter Varghese and Foreign Minister Julie Bishop being made aware and an investigator appointed to report on the incident.

Mr Briggs, the then cities minister, Mr Eaton and the woman, a vice-consul at the Australian consulate-general in Hong Kong, are believed to have spent about three hours at Stormies after dining together in the popular Lan Kwai Fong entertainment district on November 27.

At one point, the staffer, a legal graduate on her first overseas posting, complained to Mr Eaton that Mr Briggs was standing too close to her. Mr Eaton suggested she stand next to him, which the staffer did until the night out wrapped up about 2am.

The following morning, Mr Eaton realised he had lost his work phone and texted the consular staffer, using his personal phone, to ask if she had seen it. �Good morning Stuart, I am so sorry to hear you lost your phone!�� the staffer texted back. �Alas I don�t have it.�

She also thanked Mr Eaton for complimenting the consulate team in his text on its assistance during business meetings with Mr Briggs in Hong Kong the previous day. �I�m glad you and the minister enjoyed the program. I will pass on your message (and phone no!) to the others,�� she wrote. �Good luck with your phone, have a good day and a safe flight!�

Mr Eaton, who travelled on to London with Mr Briggs, did not hear from the consular staffer again until November 30, when she was at work. After the staffer texted him, saying she wanted to talk �about Friday night�, he called her immediately.

She told him that Mr Briggs had made an �inappropriate� comment to her while at the bar. �She said that she didn�t want to make a complaint but she wanted him to talk to the minister so he didn�t say it again,�� a source said.

It is understood the investigator�s report said the consular staffer did not want the matter to go further. Mr Eaton, who declined to comment when contacted yesterday, is believed to have informed the investigator of the substance of the texts but was not asked to provide them for examination.

The consular staffer told the investigator Mr Briggs had told her she had �piercing� eyes and had placed his arm around her and kissed her on the neck.

Mr Briggs, a South Australian conservative, has told colleagues he told another person in the bar the staffer had �beautiful eyes�, had only placed his arm around her when posing for a photograph and gave her a goodnight kiss on the cheek. There was no independent witness to the incident.

Mr Briggs had first met the woman that afternoon, as he worked his way through a day of meetings with Hong Kong transport and city officials.

The Australian consul-general to Hong Kong, Paul Tighe, had accompanied the minister to meetings with rail operator MTR general manager Victor Chan, environment undersecretary Christine Loh and transport undersecretary Yau Shing-mu.

The staffer stood in for Mr Tighe at the last meetings of the day with banker HSBC and a government-appointed property group called Energising Kowloon East. When the alleged incident came to light, Mr Varghese had referred it to the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, which engaged an independent official to investigate.

Malcolm Turnbull, who this week described Mr Briggs�s behaviour as a �serious matter�, expanded the cabinet�s governance subcommittee last month to consider the investigator�s report.

The committee, chaired by the Prime Minister, includes Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss, Attorney-General George Brandis and Ms Bishop. Because of the gravity of the matter and concerns that any action taken against Mr Briggs might be seen as vindictive towards a supporter of Tony Abbott, the decision was taken in Mr Turnbull�s office to co-opt more ministers on to the committee.

They included Peter Dutton, Scott Morrison, Michaelia Cash and Arthur Sinodinos. After reading the report, the expanded committee decided that Mr Briggs had to go.

Sources have said the process and outcome have deeply worried some ministers on the committee. Senior government sources have confirmed cabinet governance committee members were concerned about the precedent that would be set by a sacking or resignation over such a borderline incident.

The claim against Mr Briggs did not contain any specific allegation of sexual harassment but rather �inappropriate� attention, but the committee members also recognised there were no sanctions available other than a sacking or resignation.

The process was seen by some to direct the outcome because once the committee was presented with a declaration that ministerial guidelines had been breached, it had little option but to endorse it.

Comments are good too.

quote:

More training is needed to make DFAT staff aware of different traditions and symbolisms.

Kissing is just one of those symbolic gestures that DFAT staff need to be able to cope with, however much they may be sensitive to it.

Some countries kiss cheeks once, sometimes twice, sometimes three times, and the rarest occasions it is four times. Some countries kiss on the lips with lips closed. Some even rub noses.

A DFAT vice consul, male or female, should be able to deal with this whether within Australia or abroad.

quote:

We don't know the full story but on the face of it she seems to be playing the precious victim. She could have left or not been there in the first place. Surely she is not a helpless creature. She was surrounded by people from whom she could have sort help had she been frightened or felt intimidated. People are hugging and kissing all the time when they greet and say goodbye to people. It is the fashionable thing to do one minute and cause for someone's resignation the next.

Perhaps Briggs is too realistic about the cure for climate change and sustainable cities so dear to the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister.

quote:

There are some very thin skinned people around today especially the staffer who sees a compliment as an insult and an expression of friendship as sexual harassment. So how does it work today? Should Jamie Briggs have asked her if she minded him making a comment about her and should he have asked he if he could kiss her cheek. Is that how you establish consent. Is that what Political Correctness has descended to?

open24hours fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Jan 2, 2016

# ¿ Jan 2, 2016 01:13

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

gay picnic defence posted:

Would other countries bother signing up if we did something like that? I can imagine nations being a bit unwilling to ignore a US or UK request to do stuff like that because those two actually have some clout on the world stage, but who would give a gently caress what a little tinpot state like us wants?

They could refuse to renew your passport if you're not making repayments.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2016 09:31

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

gay picnic defence posted:

How would they guarantee that they know that you should be making repayments? Seems like a huge penalty for something so vague.

They'll probably just say you should be making repayments irrespective of how much you earn. That's how they do it in New Zealand if you have a student loan and live overseas.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2016 11:12

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Sounds like he recommends shelving.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2016 11:39

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Depends, will you get a better job?

# ¿ Jan 3, 2016 01:13

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

The gallery?

# ¿ Jan 3, 2016 23:41

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

That's actually pretty cool. I hope the packaging is longer lasting than Manzoni's.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 01:04

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

People who are eligible for family tax benefits shouldn't be allowed to have families. Good idea.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 11:50

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Brick and mortar stores are on the way out anyway. Might as well go broke now rather than later.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 15:23

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

He probably would, the pro-life movement is pretty fringe here. Even Abbott only said he wanted abortions to be 'rare'.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 18:51

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-06/hoverboard-safety-blitz-as-victoria-floats-possible-ban/7069944

I'm struggling to think of a more predictable, and more Australian, reaction. And people say we don't have a culture.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 04:23

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Birb Katter posted:

To be fair, repeatedly bursting into flames doesn't exactly scream consumer safe.

Sure but it's already illegal to sell things that aren't safe. This is just your typical kneejerk.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 04:28

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Good to see you back IWC. A lot of so called progressives do seem very unwilling to put any kind of sustained effort into criticising cultures different from their own. They're willing to say that things like FGM or whatever are bad when presented with them but they never really become a cause celebre. It's much easier to criticise apartheid South Africa or Israel because they have cultures close enough to our own that it feels comfortable telling them what to do (because they should know better?).‎

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 02:02

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

I wouldn't have thought it that controversial that the health impacts of energy generation should be considered.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 04:51

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

starkebn posted:

They have been. The point is there are no health concerns regarding wind turbines.

Yes and we know this because we took the time to consider the impacts and continue to monitor them.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2016 05:28

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

People didn't want a diversified economy. It's all a bit new and a bit scary.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2016 00:40

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Intercity high speed rail was a dumb idea anyway. For that kind of money they could build proper metros in cities and improve/extend the suburban lines.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2016 01:33

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Unless it went like 800km/h you'd fly anyway.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2016 01:41

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

BlitzkriegOfColour posted:

I'd take it. Not from a stupid city like Brisbane but I'd take 400km/h from Sydney to Melbourne and back. gently caress flying, flying is the worst.

Would you take it over better local trains?

400km/h is at the high end of current technology, and you can guarantee they'd go for a much slower and slightly cheaper option.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2016 01:57

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Probably not, I mean if there was money that could only be spent on high speed rail then maybe but that's not realistic. Until the population between capital cities increases I can't see it being worth it. It'd run at a loss and divert funds from more beneficial projects.

I do think they should be securing a route for future development though, it'll only get more expensive if they wait.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2016 03:09

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Pfft, as if there's a solution to any problem that doesn't involve banning things. Furthermore, Australia doesn't have a culture.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2016 22:01

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Mithranderp posted:

What is it about anglo men that makes them so angry? Loss of power through the slow dismantling of colonial and patriarchal power structures? (too slow IMO but that's just me)

This has been a feature of Anglo society since well before anyone even thought about dismantling the patriarchy or that colonialism might not be a good idea.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2016 23:43

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Drugs in [professional] sport: an issue for the federal government (or state, for that matter)?

open24hours fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jan 12, 2016

# ¿ Jan 12, 2016 03:40

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Yeah that's pretty much my take on it. If the AFL want a drug testing regime they should organise their own. That drug testing in sport is treated as a public service like environmental monitoring or the regulation of the labour market seems strange to me.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2016 04:04

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

If it were reframed as an OH&S issue I might be more sympathetic to it, but as far as I can tell the main objective is to promote 'fairness'.

It also seems like a lot of the things professional athletes put themselves through would be banned if sport were treated like other jobs though.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2016 04:27

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

I don't really see how that's an argument for government involvement in anti-doping. Could you realistically expect the problem of steroid use among teens to increase if drug testing in sport was done independently?

Some kids probably smoke weed because they want to be more like their hero Snoop Dogg, should the government be involved in anti-doping in music?

# ¿ Jan 12, 2016 04:40

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Replace weed with heroin if it makes it easier.

There are a lot of things that I don't think the government should regulate, are you arguing that because the regulation of some things is necessary the regulation of all things is necessary?

For example, cheating in motorsport is endemic. Should we have a government department whose job it is to measure boost pressure and injector size in racing cars, or is it something better left to the race organisers?

open24hours fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jan 12, 2016

# ¿ Jan 12, 2016 04:54

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Tokamak posted:

Considering that most sports played at the national level involve athletes that compete at the international level... Then it is a government issue. The government makes a large investment into the development of athletes and sporting organisations, so it only makes sense to hold professional athletes to international standards.

Other questions worth asking are whether that investment is desirable, and if it should be the government's job to hold international athletes to account.

Tokamak posted:

Besides if you are a sport that doesn't compete internationally like the AFL, do you really want to carry a reputation for not giving a poo poo about drug use? Take a look at professional wrestling if you want to plumb the depths of a sport with token drug testing.

That's a question for the AFL. If they want to be seen to give a poo poo about drug testing then they're free to finance it.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2016 06:00

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

It's easy to blame the ABC, but the left is just terrible at getting its message out. Where's the IPA alternative?

# ¿ Jan 12, 2016 23:19

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

They get quoted because they're much better at playing the game than anyone in the Socialist Alliance could ever hope to be.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2016 00:21

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

It's not about blaming the left for being hopeless, it's that if the left are hopeless it's the left that loses out. You can complain about the world being unfair all you like but it's not going to help you or your cause.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2016 01:50

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Cartoon posted:

It is entirely about it being unfair.

What are the luminaries of the Australian left supposed to do to get their message out? The mainstream media call the ALP lewftwing:

http://www.weeklytimes.com.au/left-wing-councillor-left-red-faced-over-royal-portrait-row/

Please have an answer because I've been struggling with exactly this for decades. In America money = exposure is even further down the road than it is in Australia but we aren't far behind. How can you have an egalitarian society when to be elected you need more money than Clive Palmer? It's bullshit and it's completely unfair and skewed. The only time that the hard left got a say was back when the union movement still had real power. Now the Right wingers have completely white anted that power base what have we got left?

Why would opponents of the left have any interest whatsoever in providing a fair and unskewed environment in which the left can operate? The reason it's unfair and skewed is because the left have been comprehensively outmaneuvered for decades and haven't been able to respond in a coherent way.

It doesn't look like it's going to change any time soon either. What little political capital the mainstream left have is wasted on identity politics, which, whatever your views about their philosophical importance, aren't going to win elections.

open24hours fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Jan 13, 2016

# ¿ Jan 13, 2016 04:22

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

The Greens are actually an interesting feature of the decline of the left. With socialism being so thoroughly discredited for so many people environmentalism provides one of the only ways to criticise capitalism without being immediately written off as some kind of cold war throwback.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2016 05:08

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Periphery posted:

I'd actually like to see a party that's essentially the greens but instead of being branded as environmentalists heavily pushes a brand focused on health, education and public infrastructure. While those are some fairly prominent areas in all parties I think a focus on those would still allow a party to differentiate itself from the other parties while providing shitloads of avenues to criticise the status quo.

Parties are the whole problem. They're easy to attack ('the Greens are hippies so you shouldn't vote for them') and it's easy for them to run on one platform (stop the boats) while actually being about something else entirely (the expansion of corporatism). People need to be able to vote for individual policies rather than baskets of them.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2016 23:21

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Negligent posted:

If you want to vote on party policy you could probably join the party

I don't want to vote on party policy though?

# ¿ Jan 13, 2016 23:34

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

asio posted:

Well then be happy with just your vote at election time. Put more effort into the democratic process, you know there is already a solution?

Voting on party policy and voting on what policies are implemented are different things. Party politics is undemocratic at the best of times.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2016 23:52

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

I agree, if only there was such a party I might even vote for them instead of the Greens.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2016 23:58

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 09:08

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Mate if we didn't have elites like Eric Abetz making our decisions for us it'd be, well, it'd be anarchy wouldn't it? You want bogans pulling the strings?

# ¿ Jan 14, 2016 01:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol January: I think that young Abbott would make a really good minister

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