Not these assholes again: Bundy sons, Militia seize federal building

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Not these assholes again: Bundy sons, Militia seize federal building

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NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

Nessus posted:

Personally I'm just tired of the vaporous delusions of rural whites being treated with deference and obsequiousness out of fear of their possible terrorist attacks, when actual grievances are violently suppressed by the police.

It's because liberals and minorities take on the police and the courts system individually and crazy white rednecks viciously support each other, have a huge network of radio and internet personalities with a united core message, and will all fall in line and vote exactly the same ticket every time without missing an election.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2016 05:01

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# ¿ May 9, 2024 21:41

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

ITT a bunch of city dwellers and suburbanites east of the Mississippi who don't know what public land actually means because they have no recollection of basic middle school US history that also struggle to think of what to call land that doesn't have trees on it and speak of a parks visitor center like it's a mythical thing they only read about in children's books.

ansel autisms posted:

I wonder how much it would actually cost the government to send in a force of people to actually take these morons out. I'm getting the feeling a lot of posters (looking at you Radbot) really don't understand how remote and isolated this part of the country is.

Hmm not sure. What's the "government" you speak of? Local, city, county, state, or federal? It wouldn't cost anything extra to the FBI's budget to have a presence there since that's literally their job they do multiple times every year. Each of those tiers of government also likely are already on site. Oh my gosh, it's so remote being 3 hours' drive from a city of 600,000.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 00:22

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

If these guys get convicted of a felony for pulling this stunt then they will not be able to buy guns, own guns, shoot guns, or even look at guns. What morons considering that might be their only hobby and they've clearly sunk thousands into it. It will end their occupying careers forever since their tactics involve being armed.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 03:57

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

FWIW in 2013 I snuck into a National Park during the government shutdown and wasn't arrested, nor ticketed, just given a stern talking to. Their punishment could be a wide range of things and maybe none of them are arrestable offenses.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2016 06:29

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

Mr Interweb posted:

By the way, how exactly does the concept of federal land work anyway? I mean, is it like the public library where anyone can access it any time during the hours where it's open? If you're a farmer, or a rancher or whatever, are you allowed to go in there and let your cows eat grass and such as long as the BLM permits or what?

There are lots of types of federally owned land. National Parks, National Forests, National Refuges and National Monuments make up a huge amount of fed land and usually charge entry fees and camping fees, with a lot of it available for free as well.

Straight BLM land that's not set aside for wildlife restoration or closed for other reasons can be accessed by anybody 24/7/365 for free. You can find BLM land, drive there, and camp for up to 14 days in a single spot. Move 100 yards away and you can camp another 14 days. Totally free. You can shoot guns, ride ATVs or dirtbikes, 4x4s, hike, hoot and holler, whatever. Also BLM land doesn't fall under a lot of state laws or ordinances, for instance if there's a statewide campfire ban, it doesn't apply on BLM land.

BLM land is awesome plain and simple and everyone who lives East of Colorado doesn't know what they're missing.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2016 04:54

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

Mr Interweb posted:

What about federal grazing land? According to the BLM website, it's $1.35 per animal per month (which sounds like a pretty loving sweet deal to me)? Does this mean if you have say, an area of land, like a 100 sq. acres, multiple people who pay the fee can all put their animals in that area? Or does the BLM provide certain areas of land only to certain ranchers?

Not exactly sure how it works on the rancher side, but the cows are on the same BLM land that I was talking about. Usually areas with BLM land are criss-crossed with fencing, gates, and cattle guards which are controlled by feds or ranchers according to the season and their agreements. The BLM land is actually in pockets in between existing ranches, parks, towns, and even subdivisions or National Forests. If you look up close at a BLM land map it can seem random sometimes which areas are BLM and which are private. This is kind of where the Bundy problems came from originally, it's hard to tell on the ground where exactly the lines are drawn and what is what.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2016 06:09

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

UV_Catastrophe posted:

When a comparable left-wing protest eventually happens, I am 100 percent sure that the authorities will thoughtfully consider using a gentle response like the one used in Burns, Oregon and will definitely not stomp them out of existence using every dirty trick in the book. I know this because we're all about fairness and the use of consistent logic here in the good old US of A, and we certainly don't dole out justice differently depending on political circumstance, no sir.

You see, it's important to pedantically defend things like the Bundy militia's legal right to ask friendly questions to locals about their employment status in the federal government and their right to receive Fed Ex packages in the driveway of the government building that they seized. Because if we defend these rights now, then the state is completely obligated to treat, say, the next Black Lives Matter protest with the same kind of even-handed fairness. If not, then those responsible will be turned into pillars of salt by the occult magicks of the D&D forum, which is the prevailing political force in this country, as we all know.

Can't believe you guys don't see this, smh.

It's because liberals and minorities don't vote. hth.

# ¿ Jan 15, 2016 06:57

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

kartikeya posted:

Ahahaha

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/26/1475404/-An-Oregon-man-involved-in-the-armed-standoff-has-been-arrested-on-multiple-charges-today

I'm going to guess this is for something completely separate, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if it's for those cameras. Either way, laughing at this greedy jackass.

A Winner is Jew posted:

Looks like it's from the cameras since he appears to be taking possession of them while on camera. Probably not a great idea to admit openly to performing an actual felony on camera and then upload it for all the world to see, but we're not exactly dealing with the sharpest tools in the shed here.

I don't get it. At 5:20 in that video he takes the cameras from the guy with the jean jacket and cowboy hat. Another guy also grabs one and a few seconds later they hand both back to the guy in the hat. He didn't run off with it, the guy in the hat did!

The guy in the hat also was the one on the ladder taking them down. Why didn't they arrest him instead? Also the old guy with the hat isn't that the guy with the orphanage or whatever?

# ¿ Jan 26, 2016 22:11

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

If they're already charged with conspiracy then all of them will now be charged with murder since Finicum was shot and was part of the conspiracy. Any other deaths will be added on. They will probably never get out of prison now.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2016 20:25

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

Vahakyla posted:

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_6_7337.html

Affected Area(s) Top
Airspace Definition:
Center: On the WILDHORSE VOR/DME (ILR) 148 degree radial at 20.2 nautical miles. (Latitude: 43�15'57"N, Longitude: 118�50'40"W)
Radius: 3 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to and including 3000 feet AGL
Effective Date(s):
From January 27, 2016 at 2200 UTC
To February 10, 2016 at 1400 UTC
6/7337

Click for Sectional
NOTAM Text
Operating Restrictions and Requirements Top
No pilots may operate an aircraft in the areas covered by this NOTAM (except as described).
ONLY RELIEF AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS UNDER DIRECTION OF FBI ARE AUTHORIZED IN THE AIRSPACE

Not really surprising at all. TFRs are issued around common traffic accidents sometimes. With FBI planes in the area it's a no brainer.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2016 00:55

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

Kazak_Hstan posted:

Are they actually not arresting people as they leave?

FBI has had a couple really good days, but I am ... skeptical of the wisdom of that.

Oh well, they seem to be on their game at this point, deferring judgement I guess.

They are IDing everyone. Presumably they will build cases for as many as they can and charge them in the near future once everyone goes home.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2016 03:34

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

I think DefendYourBase is the smartest guy out there. I'd love to see what his google adsense account looks like. I predict after this ends without any more violence he will start a youtube militia/politics show and become a youtube star. He's had a steady audience this whole time, even when we're just looking at the sky for an hour.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2016 20:44

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

A Winner is Jew posted:

No, he's a loving idiot that can't even manage a 1 KDR on an FPS game.

...And yet still the smartest out there?

# ¿ Jan 28, 2016 20:46

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

meristem posted:

In the last video, DefendYourBase said that more or less everyone except Sean was free to go. Sean is the Fat Guy. DefendYourBase is staying behind because of Fat Guy.

"Free to go" but they are all going to be charged with a felony. Apparently some of the other people that left have now been charged. There's no way out except by getting a felony or getting shot for the remaining few.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2016 20:52

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

As a Millennial I posted:

The FBI's explicitly told these four that Sean is the only one who's getting arrested when they leave. The other three have said they want his charges dropped before they'll leave.

Did you get this somewhere besides DefendYourBase's channel? The way I understood what they were saying is how I wrote it.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2016 20:54

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

DYB saying here at about 2:00 that "it sounds like" everyone who has left has been charged later. I sincerely doubt anyone coming out of that compound will not face legal consequences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URlOAAvwRhg

# ¿ Jan 28, 2016 21:03

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

Mr Interweb posted:

How is he gonna do that? He's part of the militia, so he's gonna be charged along with everyone else, isn't he?

And committing a crime disqualifies him from being a youtube star because??

# ¿ Jan 28, 2016 21:07

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

As a Millennial I posted:

OPB segment was short and repeated the same info - Sean has a federal warrant, the others would be free to go.

Yeah they're "free to leave" the compound alright. I bet :10bux:

they all get charged with something before the dust settles.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2016 21:09

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

As a Millennial I posted:

What do you mean by "before the dust settles"? Several people, including Blaine Cooper, have left the compound without being charged yet. If you mean they'll eventually be charged, yeah, that's not the point.

I mean they will walk out of there, walk down the road, be searched and IDed by the FBI at a checkpoint, walk through it, walk down the road again, get in a vehicle and get home. Then a day or a week later they get a knock on the door and are arrested.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2016 21:15

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

As a Millennial I posted:

Here is the post you questioned.

Uhh that post was in response to my original post here:

NathanScottPhillips posted:

"Free to go" but they are all going to be charged with a felony. Apparently some of the other people that left have now been charged. There's no way out except by getting a felony or getting shot for the remaining few.

Why did you feel the need to disagree if now you appear to be agreeing with the statement?

# ¿ Jan 28, 2016 21:18

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

As a Millennial I posted:

What specifically are they asking for? Dropping Sean's charges so they can go home right now, or a promise that none of the four will be charged? My understanding was the former.

Right now they are grasping at straws and saying anything that makes them seem like they're still acting morally right. Saying things like "we're just out here camping and they want to give us felonies" or "this is a peaceful protest the whole time" while earlier Sean was yelling into the camera "this is what we prepared for! Militia men shoot the FBI at their roadblocks!" There's no way out so I think that's setting in now. I have a feeling Sean really doesn't want to give up his 2nd Amendment rights and he's trying to game the system but he won't win.

I think DYB might just be riding the wave of attention now. The first night he was prepared to die and talking to god and whatnot but now he seems to have realized he's become a big player in the media.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2016 21:29

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

So has anyone made a video of Finicum's last stand with a "Leevoy Jeeeeeeeenkinnnnnnnnssss rgrgrrgrrgrgrhrhrhgrhrrggg" audio track over the top?

# ¿ Jan 29, 2016 18:03

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

SyHopeful posted:

It looked like a bullet hole to me, and I fully admit I could be wrong. I'm not trying to stir up conspiracies at all; from the available evidence it looks like the shooting of Finicum was justified. If it is a bullet hole I wonder if the Feds had a sniper back up a ways who took the shot when Finicum tried to run the roadblock and almost squished that officer.

No there was no "sniper" up the road shooting through the windshield past other officers heads and miraculously causing Finicum to swerve away from the roadblock. This was actually a real life event not a movie.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2016 21:02

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

SquadronROE posted:

More interesting than what happens to the rest of these people, and more interesting than the sad death of tarpman, is the fallout from this in the militia movement at large. These guys were literally trying to make a last stand and called on other militias to join up, but very few people showed up. All there was, was a lot of Internet grumbling and then the FBI took down most of them without even a fight.

I wonder if that's going to cause people to rethink things (unlikely).

Pretty much all of the other militia leaders and right-wing types said that this was not their fight back at the very beginning when the Hammonds were arrested. Half probably were right that they should wait for a morally more righteous cause, and the other half were probably never serious about their ideas of rebellion anyway.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2016 21:12

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

Hopefully someone can help me solve a mystery which I haven't seen other people posting about.

The night Finicum died: Who is the man that exited Finicum's truck before the truck drove off?

This man exited Finicum's truck, and walked towards the FBI vehicles where he was then arrested. The aerial video pans away just as he exits the vehicle, but the man can be seen with his hands behind his head being lead by police to their vehicle.

In eyewitness testimony from Mark McConnnell, Mark says this man was taken into custody, does not name the man.

In eyewitness testimony from Shawna Cox, Shawna says that this man raised his hands to the window, and he was then fired upon by FBI/police. He was able to exit the car somehow?? Then he gets back into the car? Her testimony doesn't make sense, but the detail that he was shot as he put his hands out the window leads me to the following point.

I've seen several news sources name the man who exited Finicum's truck as Ryan Payne.

Ryan Payne was treated at a hospital for multiple gunshot wounds.

Was Shawna's story about the police shooting at his hands out the window true? I have seen reports that Payne was still in the truck after it ran off the road. Does anyone have a definitive ID on the man who exited Finicum's truck?

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 20:24

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

Prester Jane posted:

200 militia members are currently in the third hour of a shouting match with about 300 local residents on the steps of the Burns courthouse. There are substantially more militia members in Burns at present than there was during the peak of the refuge occupation.

Edit: Judge from the Kangaroo court sent out a letter to the Oregon Speaker of the House demanding the FBI be removed by 5pm tommorrow. The final line is "Time is of the essence as this is a matter of life and death."

https://mobile.twitter.com/jason_a_w/status/694283485473673217

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, may I present Exhibit A, undersigned by the defendants."

# ¿ Feb 2, 2016 01:17

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

chitoryu12 posted:

Then it provides precedent that it's okay for a journalist to become directly involved with the subject that he claims to be reporting on, to the extent of assisting them in their goals on camera.

That's not at all what the ACLU is defending. They are defending his right to free speech. The ACLU's argument is that he should be out on bail because the courts are using his 1st amendment protected speech as evidence that he's a risk to the community, some of his statements are years old. Free speech should always be protected. I'm sure the FBI has a lot more dirt on him than just what he's said on his show, and they can prosecute him for that. There's good reason to let him be released on bail.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2016 21:08

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

Talmonis posted:

They are not protesters. This needs to be driven home. They are an armed force that broke into a Federal facility and threatened force on anyone who tried to remove them.

Contrary to popular liberal belief, the possession of firearms does not really add any extra legal ramifications to the situation outside of the felons who were present. Liberal protesters should try to carry guns, it would probably help their causes in most situations.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2016 00:50

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

oohhboy posted:

I am sure that small arms would protect you from BBBBBRRRRRRRRRTTTTTT if that comes. US soldiers would more likely side with the citizens they weren't armed.

How long have we been in Afghanistan? How's Assad holding up? What's Libya looking like at this point? All of these downfalls started with a group of guys with small arms. When the Taliban were fighting the USSR in the 80's, they were using 100 year old British rifles.

AlphaDog posted:

A list of first-world countries where this scenario has happened would include well known nations such as

1. Ukraine

# ¿ Feb 12, 2016 02:54

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

oohhboy posted:

You feed and rescue your Possums? We too busy shooting them as pests.

Afghanistan: A place that has known only war, a place you invaded, where some people consider themselves already dead for the fight.

Assad is so monstrous, large chunks of his own army turned on him, fighting in an area that has seen decades of fighting sharpening their skills against the US Army and the Israelis full of surplus arms of all calibre fighting an army that has resorted to dropping barrel bombs and chlorine gas that is only fighting at this point because if they don't, they die.

Libya fell when the army straight up didn't fight for Gaddafi after all the BS he put everyone through, plus western air strikes destroyed any remaining resolve.

Ukraine: Putin happened. They also had a near bloodless revolution before with people protesting armed with nothing more than rocks driving out the pro-Russian sock puppet. Guns would have gotten everybody killed.

If your President Obama declared himself dictator, he wouldn't fall because you are packing an Tacticlool AR-15 with combat LARP, it would be from nobody listening to him and then promptly arresting him for treason. The US isn't remotely in danger of becoming a dictatorship no matter how many times you watch Escape from New York. Canada is more likely to invade and the population would welcome them for bring healthcare. You have a lot of things that are hosed up. Dictatorships isn't one of them.

Afghanistan a place where they build small arms in caves. Because small arms are useless in overthrowing a modern army?

You forgot that half of Syria's border has dissolved in chaos because people with small arms made it too expensive for the modern US army to remain.

Libya was a bad example, I admit. But I could find a half dozen replacements.

Putin: an unpredictable, wild caricature and yet, also the modern political reality. Tell me, why do you think I, or people like me, will not need AR-15s? Can you see that far into the future? What does your crystal ball reveal that gives you this certainty? I bet the Tatars of Crimea wish they had AR-15s.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Feb 12, 2016 06:59

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

Warbadger posted:

Legal and transferrable full auto M2s can be had, they come up for sale on occasion. They're just horrendously expensive and require a bit of a wait for the paperwork (along with not being a felon).

Plus people with legal full auto machine guns are about the most checked-out and safe people you can imagine. Among the normal stuff needed to buy a gun, a class III firearm requires the following:

-Permission from Sherriff or Chief of law enforcement where you live

-Two 2"x2" color passport photos submitted

-Fill out additional paperwork describing your intentions for using the weapon (target, museum, etc)

-Get fingerprinted at your local LEO office and have them send it to the FBI

-Send a $200 tax stamp payment to the ATF

-Send a form to the Dept. of Treasury

-May not loan weapon to a friend

-May not store weapon at someone else's residence

-Must physically be present whenever allowing other people to shoot it

-Takes at least 120 days for paperwork to clear and you can obtain ownership

# ¿ Feb 19, 2016 20:47

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

During the first morning after Finicum was shot and the remaining occupiers were leaving/talking about where the Navy SEALs should go, Sandy on the live feed said multiple times that she would reload magazines as the others shot at the FBI and multiple times asked which bullets worked in her gun. She's not innocent of anything.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2016 21:25

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

atomicthumbs posted:

people who own a firearm are way much more likely to be shot with their own gun than people who don't

Yes well what happens when you multiply by 0?

# ¿ Feb 23, 2016 22:24

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

Radbot posted:

Agreed that reducing the amount of guns in America is a good idea.

You must be in favor of reducing the amount of cars to 0 as well. Car owners are 1000x times more likely to die than bus riders.

Geostomp posted:

Which is what the real problem with the gun debate in the country comes down to: large numbers of childish adults demanding to keep their hobby of handling deadly weapons. Sure, you get all kinds of platitiudes of defense and freedom, but what it all comes down to is people demanding that they get to keep playing with their toys no matter how dangerous they are. It's the antithesis of responsibility.

Is it a hobby or is it a constitutional right needed to guarantee the security of our state?

# ¿ Feb 23, 2016 22:33

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

Talmonis posted:

Please fuckoff back to TFR with this poo poo.

I didn't start it.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2016 22:39

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

evilweasel posted:

gunfetishists waxing poetic about how the only thing in their life that makes them feel like a real man is actually selflessly protecting are freedoms in this thread is especially ironic

which part of the poo poo trench is yours, if i may ask

Close the thread when your arguments get destroyed.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2016 22:39

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

botany posted:

I agree that guns should be as well-regulated as cars, including license, registration, insurance etc.

And yet, the very few times when I've been involved in collisions, I've been rear-ended by an uninsured driver. Also driving is not a right. Asking that the press register, be licensed, etc is more in line with your thinking.

quote:

Very clearly a hobby.

More clearly a constitutional right.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2016 22:47

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

Kit Walker posted:

Agreed. Cars are terrible

City privilege.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2016 22:48

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

evilweasel posted:

one gun owner came in to argue that gun owners protect our freedoms, in the thread mocking a bunch of militia idiots who tried to start the second american revolution and the most significant difference they made in the world was a giant poo poo trench

like, really, that's the time and place you choose to make that argument, and you expect anything but open mockery

And Black Lives Matter supporters beat up a vet in a McDonald's parking lot. Just because some morons with guns did something moronic doesn't mean the 2nd amendment isn't important. Your type of logic would be at home on the Rush Limbaugh show.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2016 22:51

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# ¿ May 9, 2024 21:41

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

evilweasel posted:

nobody needs you playing dressup hero for their security, you are less of a contribution to ARE FREEDOMS than an obese security guard who had a heart attack in his chair eight hours ago but still looks like he might just be resting his eyes a little

Remember in the (closed) gun thread when I said you were too immature to talk about the subject without using cartoonish language and insults?

botany posted:

Yeah but the 2nd isn't important, with or without idiots. It's an amendment legislating a hobby. That's all it is.

That's your opinion that it's not important. Probably the opinion of someone who lives in a cozy neighborhood in a suburb of a major city. To 20% of the population living in rural areas, guns are most definitely an immediate source of security, both physical security and security of their livelihood. For national security, there are many far-fetched scenarios we could talk about that are plots of movies or whatever, but that doesn't really affect the point of the 2nd amendment. And since the US constitution is the longest lasting constitution in the world, maybe there is some merit to it.

Al! posted:

Some morons with guns didn't do something, thousands of Americans are killed each year by preventable gun deaths and we're treating it as an acceptable trade off for freedom instead of a public health crisis that needs to be curtailed IMMEDIATELY.

Like 10x more Americans die of heart disease or cigarette use so I think it's acceptable that we allow freedom even if it costs lives.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2016 23:04

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Not these assholes again: Bundy sons, Militia seize federal building

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