Conference-mageddon 2016 Remix: the Big 12's day of reckoning

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General Dog: Apr 26, 2008; Everybody's working for the weekend

Thermos H Christ posted:

How does extending the GOR make the current candidates more attractive options? If you don't like the available options, shackling yourself to them long-term sounds like about the dumbest thing you could do. Better to just let them hang out for a few years to gently caress our media partners out of extra money because they're obligated to pay full price for any team we add, plus it lets us do divisions and a CCG which is an extra chunk of change. Seems like plenty of teams would jump at a few years of extra cash and at least a remote possibility a nice landing spot in the aftermath.

I'm saying that with the presumption that OU (maybe along with Texas) was the major driver behind this because of financial concerns, and that all of the rest of the teams didn't have much incentive to add anyone. If you're any of the Big 12 north remnants, adding more teams is a bad thing competitively, and if it's not going to come with any increased assurance of the conference's long term stability, it's a bad deal. Increasing the size of the Big 12 isn't going to do anything to help them in the post-Big 12 world.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 17:35

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 21:47

Intruder: Mar 5, 2003

Can we just admit that OU is shook from the rear end whipping the Coogs laid on them? smh

# ? Sep 30, 2016 17:40

oldman: Dec 15, 2003; grumpy

Back in Spring Idaho announced that they were going to step down to FCS and rejoin the Big Sky conference for football. University president Staben was pretty clear in his language that every option had been exhausted and that most of the Vandal boosters supported the movie. Unfortunately for him the Lewiston Morning Tribune decided to do a bit of journalism and got their FOIA on.

quote:

MOSCOW - In late April, the University of Idaho made a landmark NCAA decision, dropping its football program from the Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) to the lower-tier Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) and effectively ending a 22-year run at the highest level of college football.
UI president Chuck Staben formally announced the school's intention to join the Big Sky Conference in a news conference on April 28, more than a month after the Sun Belt Conference chose not to re-up with the Vandals.
The move was controversial. It was met with resistance. Many vehemently disagreed with Staben's vision
. Others thought the president acted rashly in making a decision just 58 days after the Sun Belt showed UI the door - that he moved too swiftly without truly combing through the options, or allowing others to materialize.
The Big Sky gave Idaho until May 3 to accept an invitation, but it was widely thought to be more of a soft deadline than an ultimatum, and the league would grant an extension if requested.
Idaho's top athletic administrator was among those who believed the university's best move, for the time being, was to not make a move at all.
According to public records obtained by the Tribune, athletic director Rob Spear drafted an email seven days prior to the Big Sky announcement, listing three reasons that would merit delaying such a decision.
"President Staben, The more I reflect on this decision, the more I think it is important that you delay the Big Sky decision for the following reasons," Spear wrote in an email addressed to himself. "1. We have a number of spring sport championships that will be completely over shadowed with an announcement in May. This would be unfortunate for those student-athletes. 2. Football has endured an investigation and getting removed from the Sun Belt. I don't think it is fair for the student-athletes and coaches to endure another setback. There are a lot of positives heading into next season. 3. An announcement now will tremendously impact fundraising."
The university charged the Tribune $911.14 to furnish the public records, which included 645 email communications sent by, and received by, both Staben and Spear. On May 3, university general counsel responded to an initial email sent by the Tribune, affirming the UI was in receipt of the records request. General counsel began collecting the emails on May 19, but didn't make them available until Aug. 29. According to Idaho law, public records requests must be granted or denied within 10 working days of the request.
Spear, who flanked Staben and sported an unenthused look during points of the April 28 news conference, hasn't backpedaled from his original stance.
"At the time I thought a delayed announcement was important to allow us to focus on season ticket sales and fiscal year-end fundraising," Spear told the Tribune late last week. Idaho's AD also anticipated additional shifting within college football, but noted, "That movement appears to be happening with the Big 12 but it is unlikely that it will trickle far enough down to benefit the University of Idaho."
The Big Sky decision still looms large in Moscow.
According to Spear, the school's fundraising and season ticket sales have both taken hits. A number of the emails obtained by the Tribune came from displeased donors threatening to pull their financial support to the football program.
Between Jan. 1 and May 1, 132 individuals wrote letters to Spear and Staben expressing their opinion. Of those, 45 agreed with the move, while another 87 opposed it.
The Vandals will play the remainder of this season, and the next one, in the Sun Belt before dropping down in 2018. Another casualty of the move is the number of scholarships the UI will have to cut. FCS schools are only allowed 63 scholarships, as opposed to the 85 Idaho can currently hand out as an FBS institution. The Vandals have already taken measures to assure that they'll be NCAA compliant in two years.
In mid-February, Idaho made its case to remain a Sun Belt member, but emails suggest that Staben was preparing for the Big Sky move well before he presented to the SBC's chancellors and presidents on Feb. 15.
In a Jan. 5 message addressed to Spear, Staben wrote: "I feel more strongly that we need to plan to move to Big Sky."
When the SBC declined an option to renew Idaho's lease, the school mulled its options: remain an FBS member by declaring independence, or make an unprecedented move and become the first program to drop down.
The Vandals were Big Sky members for 30 years, from 1965-95, before leaving for the FBS and Big West Conference in 1996.
Spear began to compile, but never finalized, an independent schedule for the 2018 football season.
"While an independent schedule was doable, the schedule would have been extremely challenging," Spear said last week.
The email records also reveal an interesting conversation between Spear and Western Athletic Conference commissioner Jeff Hurd, where Hurd broaches the possibility of reviving the WAC as a football league.
"Rob: Have you had an opportunity to speak with your President regarding football and whether or not he believes the idea of other Big Sky institutions moving to the FBS level could have any legs?" Hurd wrote. "Although (former Big Sky commissioner) Doug Fullerton had interest, one of my concerns is that the new Commissioner might consider it too much of a risk to have on his/her plate right shortly after being hired."
Spear replied: "Jeff, do you have time for a call? I don't want to respond via email...FOIA."
The AD warned about Freedom of Information Act requests in one other email, addressed to Staben.
However, in an email reply addressed to another recipient, Spear wrote: "It may be time to get the WAC to take 6 football schools and form an FBS league. It would certainly save the WAC!"
In another message, he said: "The WAC has traction and I look forward to influencing the Big Sky from within. I know I can convince Montana and Montana State to jump...we need to lock arms with them. And a bowl win changes everything! I know our kids will be motivated!"
Last week, Spear clarified that the WAC would need eight members to become an FBS league and six to become an FCS league.
Although the WAC has expressed interest in reviving football - it originally disbanded in 2012 - other FBS conferences may not find the idea so appealing.
"While the NCAA rules still recognize the WAC as an FBS league, I am not so sure how excited the current FBS conferences are about adding another league and dividing the money with another conference," Spear said last week. He added: "Whatever Idaho does in the future I think it is important that we align with Montana and Montana State."
Spear, who'd always been a staunch advocate of UI retaining its FBS tag, said the UI lacked the private funding to remain "financially competitive" as a member of college football's top tier.
"We would have to invest $5 to $6 million annually into the football program," Spear sad. "This funding was not being provided through private donations and was not going to come at the expense of academic programs."
In multiple emails, however, Spear advises that the decision wasn't his to make. He constantly fed input to Staben, but the ball was in the president's court.
"Ultimately, President Staben made the decision to move to the FCS," Spear said.

# ? Sep 30, 2016 22:27

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

tbh FCS makes a lot more sense for Idaho anyway

# ? Oct 1, 2016 01:20

oldman: Dec 15, 2003; grumpy

MourningView posted:

tbh FCS makes a lot more sense for Idaho anyway

To be honest, Idaho wasn't that much better in the old days either, its historically been a terrible program and squandered every chance we've had. It would be better to play Mountain and Western based teams, but I don't see the Idaho admin investing to make a competitive Big Sky program.

So be terrible in the FBS or be terrible in the FCS :smith:

# ? Oct 1, 2016 02:36

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

I mean they weren't dominant but they were a pretty consistent playoff team in the 80s and 90s. That's gotta be more satisfying that finishing at the bottom of the sun belt

# ? Oct 1, 2016 02:47

General Dog: Apr 26, 2008; Everybody's working for the weekend

If they're finishing last in the Sunbelt they're not going to be a playoff team anytime soon.

# ? Oct 1, 2016 03:00

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

MourningView posted:

tbh FCS makes a lot more sense for Idaho anyway

FCS makes more sense for basically the entire Sun Belt.

# ? Oct 1, 2016 18:57

Randaconda: Jul 3, 2014; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Thoguh posted:

FCS makes more sense for basically the entire Sun Belt.

FBS needs relegation.

# ? Oct 1, 2016 20:55

Spacebump: Dec 24, 2003; Dallas Mavericks: Generations

whiteyfats posted:

FBS needs relegation.

It's a good idea but the problem with regulation and promotion is how quickly players graduate.

# ? Oct 1, 2016 20:58

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

Relegation is dumb and soccer is bad

# ? Oct 1, 2016 21:00

Henchman of Santa: Aug 21, 2010

Spacebump posted:

It's a good idea but the problem with regulation and promotion is how quickly players graduate.

It's a really dumb idea because you would give up/add a bunch of scholarships every time you got relegated or promoted.

# ? Oct 1, 2016 21:02

dirty shrimp money: Jan 8, 2001

whiteyfats posted:

FBS needs relegation.

I still firmly believe the G5 will be dumped into FCS in the next 10 or 20 years.

# ? Oct 1, 2016 23:30

Nissin Cup Nudist: Sep 3, 2011; Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land

MourningView posted:

Relegation is dumb and soccer is bad

Rutgers getting relegated to the MAC would own and you know it

# ? Oct 1, 2016 23:34

Kim Jong Il: Aug 16, 2003

TBH it's a lot more likely that Iowa or the rest of those Midwestern teams would be.

I don't get being offended by lots of G5 teams or lots of lovely bowls. More football is good.

# ? Oct 2, 2016 05:28

Sash!: Mar 16, 2001

Korranus posted:

I still firmly believe the G5 will be dumped into FCS in the next 10 or 20 years.

I don't know if it would go that far. I think we'd end up with three tiers.

# ? Oct 2, 2016 15:14

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

Kim Jong Il posted:

TBH it's a lot more likely that Iowa or the rest of those Midwestern teams would be.

Lol

# ? Oct 2, 2016 16:32

Randaconda: Jul 3, 2014; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Sash! posted:

I don't know if it would go that far. I think we'd end up with three tiers.

Three tiers would work. I'm all about another championship game.

# ? Oct 2, 2016 16:59

milk milk lemonade: Jul 29, 2016

Kim Jong Il posted:

TBH it's a lot more likely that Iowa or the rest of those Midwestern teams would be.

I don't get being offended by lots of G5 teams or lots of lovely bowls. More football is good.

Rutgers is the worst

And if teams aren't ranked in the top 10ish I don't care about it and I doubt many other people do either. I won't watch any scrub tier bowls, they suck. Kick all the riff raff out, relegate programs that can't get their poo poo together, have a 16 team playoff where the only neutral site is the final game, pair the season down to ten games, take OOC scheduling away from the conferences, and boom college football's structure stops being such a weird labriynth of bizarre antifun, anticompetitive ideas

# ? Oct 2, 2016 17:25

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

Hmm yes increasing the already massive divide between haves and have nots is definitely the way to make the sport more competitive.

Random small bowls are fun as hell, sorry you don't actually like watching football

# ? Oct 2, 2016 17:55

Grittybeard: Mar 29, 2010; Bad, very bad!

MourningView posted:

Random small bowls are fun as hell, sorry you don't actually like watching football

Seems like there's at least one a year where something absolutely crazy happens like a 24 point comeback or crazy poo poo like the end of the Georgia Tennessee game yesterday. Tiny bowls with bad teams make for fun games a lot of the time.

# ? Oct 2, 2016 17:59

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

The Bahamas Bowl is fun as hell every year.

# ? Oct 2, 2016 18:25

Pakled: Aug 6, 2011; WE ARE SMART

If I was a player, I'd want to go to the Bahamas Bowl more than anything other than a NY6/Playoff bowl.

# ? Oct 2, 2016 18:34

milk milk lemonade: Jul 29, 2016

They are extremely garbage no-stakes affairs sorry about your bad opinion

# ? Oct 2, 2016 18:36

KIM JONG TRILL: Nov 29, 2006; GIN AND JUCHE

Bring back the Bacardi Bowl

# ? Oct 2, 2016 18:36

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

milk milk lemonade posted:

They are extremely garbage no-stakes affairs sorry about your bad opinion

There are no real stakes it's just football.

# ? Oct 2, 2016 18:51

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

For a lot of teams those are in fact big games, but if you don't like football I suppose you're welcome to not watch. I don't know why you personally not caring means they should go away entirely

# ? Oct 2, 2016 18:57

milk milk lemonade: Jul 29, 2016

CharlestheHammer posted:

There are no real stakes it's just football.

Stakes are a social construct, wow deep. Doesn't make Hawaii vs Utah State in the Hawaii All State Roadside Assistance bowl any more compelling to me Thoreau

MourningView posted:

For a lot of teams those are in fact big games, but if you don't like football I suppose you're welcome to not watch. I don't know why you personally not caring means they should go away entirely

I don't know why you personally are being so weird about my opinion

# ? Oct 2, 2016 18:57

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

Because I disagree with it? I am trying to have a discussion about it in this here football discussion forum

# ? Oct 2, 2016 19:00

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

"These game are bad and dumb"

"Actually I think they are a lot of fun!"

Ugh so weird

# ? Oct 2, 2016 19:02

milk milk lemonade: Jul 29, 2016

'I prefer the CFP to the Menike Tire Bowl'

'You hate football'

# ? Oct 2, 2016 19:05

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

That is a very disingenuous way to present your argument! It was actually "I only like the playoff, so the other games are pointless and shouldn't exist" and saying that there should be fewer football games seems very much like a thing a person who doesn't really like watching football very much would say.

No one thinks the Hawaii Bowl is more important than the playoff games (though they can sometimes be much better games!) but it can still be fun and mean something to the teams and fan bases involved.

# ? Oct 2, 2016 19:07

Pakled: Aug 6, 2011; WE ARE SMART

Pictured: a garbage game that nobody should watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otXlDgqxp9k

# ? Oct 2, 2016 19:13

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

that play is actually bad because both teams would probably lose to Alabama

# ? Oct 2, 2016 19:16

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

milk milk lemonade posted:

Stakes are a social construct, wow deep. Doesn't make Hawaii vs Utah State in the Hawaii All State Roadside Assistance bowl any more compelling to me Thoreau

I don't know why you personally are being so weird about my opinion

Then don't watch them. To most mid tier schools the bowls are much higher stakes as they are realistic,but not easy, goals to shoot for.

# ? Oct 2, 2016 19:18

Spacebump: Dec 24, 2003; Dallas Mavericks: Generations

If Tulane made it to the Bahamas Bowl, I'd be thrilled and consider trying to go. I assume you can get Popeyes at the game which makes it even sweeter.

# ? Oct 2, 2016 19:53

dirty shrimp money: Jan 8, 2001

MourningView posted:

that play is actually bad because both teams are mickey mouse kiddie conference garbage teams

Fixed because MY POWER FIVE TEAMS

# ? Oct 2, 2016 20:05

milk milk lemonade: Jul 29, 2016

CharlestheHammer posted:

Then don't watch them.

Wayyyy ahead of you

# ? Oct 2, 2016 20:09

Intruder: Mar 5, 2003

milk milk lemonade posted:

'I prefer the CFP to the Menike Tire Bowl'

'You hate football'

Fortunately both are readily available in this bowl season

# ? Oct 2, 2016 20:09

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 21:47

Intruder: Mar 5, 2003

Why not eliminate the entire season and go by preseason rankings, only the CFP games matter

# ? Oct 2, 2016 20:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > Conference-mageddon 2016 Remix: the Big 12's day of reckoning

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