comedyblissoption posted:

2016 cspam was full of people cheering the dnc candidate or trying to make peace with holding their nose

2020 cspam people are toxxing not to support the candidate at all people are sick of this poo poo lmao

it's a funny barometer

uncop posted:

The wide gulf in their conception in history reflects serious theoretical differences that show up in their organization and action

apropos to nothing posted:

no offense to you but to the video and the person in it, i really hate this kinda policy wonk explanation for why china is really socialist that seems to come from some communists. read up on the jasic struggles or many of the labor fights happening in south china over the past decade. the CCP has arrested many union organizers and socialists throughout the country and i have comrades who have been forced to flee the country for organizing factory workers there. can dismiss it as well youre a lovely trot and so are your comrades so good or whatever you like but the same has happened to many maoists and other socialists especially in student youth groups and again, young factory workers. some of whom have gone missing with no known whereabouts. regardless of whatever noble, benevolent, and farsighted plans the CCP has for the proletarian masses one day, the reality is they have been pretty brutal on cracking down on any instance where the workers have organized to fight for better working conditions for themselves right now.

apropos to nothing posted:

there is hope but its in the fact that despite the repression the workers still are organizing and fighting for better conditions, not that the CCP is ensuring the GDP goes up fast enough

uncop posted:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/pashukanis/1924/law/ is often brought up, although I only remember the gist of it and my take won’t totally represent it.

Long story short, the jurisprudence of a society is a superstructural expression of the concrete social needs within it. The existing court system is based on the need to regard people as free-willed individuals with individual responsibilities for the needs of an exchange-based society.

Socialism and lower stage communism necessarily conceive individuals much the same way as capitalist society does, they must have definite individual rights and individually earn things according to those rights. Maybe lower stage communism does away with the need for civil courts by making individuals economically engage with the public rather than each other directly, but crime against the public (by assaulting the rights system somehow) is still possible and people have personal incentives to do it (e.g. getting stuff they didn’t earn according to the rules).

The point of punishment starts getting blurred though, like there’s no need for the public to enter disputes between individuals as some kind of wrathful angel of justice only capable of threats and violence. The public names the terms of how individuals get to engage with society in their everyday lives, not just within some artificial prison system complex. It has all kinds of levers that it can pull to reform people and protect itself from them that are going to be much more effective than prison systems of old, and could soon enough render them obsolete. For example, a person with certain bad tendencies can be offered a position in society that keeps them safe from them without the position having to be a punitive one. We already scientifically know this usually leads to better social outcomes than punishment, class society just doesn’t care about social outcomes that don’t serve or hurt its ruling classes.

Higher stage communism, as imagined, would disrupt the whole conception of responsible individuals in a way that would probably make the idea of jurisprudence seem senseless. It would be a society where the moral conception of earning and deserving things couldn’t really be there as we imagine it, so why would someone earn some kind of pre-defined punishment for doing specific undesirable things either? Localized custom or policy that has little to do with our idea of ”justice” starts making far more sense than universalized law.

smarxist posted:

is there a book or a pamphlet for the year 2020 that puts together organizational goals and strategies that are effective and easy to put together/grow?

what i mean is, so often we feel like there's a TON of energy, but no meaningful way to direct it to ends that keep people engaged in hell world, (which means they need to feel rewarded in some way for giving valuable things like their time and attention)

so what is the smallest organized venture you can put together that can regularly do material/tangible good? how do you keep it together and how do you grow it to the next level? are there strategies for putting together modular groups that can easily coordinate larger events together in loose coalitions?

i have a bit more material resources/time these days, and i want to do more than shitpost and wheatpaste sometimes

jarofpiss posted:

indigi posted:

sure but neither of these reasonable explanations really address the strong tendency among American leftists to dismiss poo poo like "read theory" and "learn a useful skill" and "maybe go for a walk every day" as elitist bullshit

apropos to nothing posted:

sports are good and there should be more jock communists

Ardennes posted:

That said, it does also offer a dilemma for Western leftists, what is more important: domestic reformism, class equality for Westerners, or anti-imperialism.

Ardennes posted:

Is it more important for Western leftists to try to reform the West while retaining its hegemony or to make it the priority to fight its hegemony. You can’t do both.

exmarx posted:

creating more farmland doesn't resolve the environmental issues caused by industrial farming, which i was responding to.

here's the dream tho

smarxist posted:

can someone do a minor effort post about communism in India? i know they have millions of diehard commies there but it seems like there's never much news of mass actions or anything (at least that leak into the mainstream). has the state managed to absorb it into the superstructure there?

dead gay comedy forums posted:

people willing to engage with it as if it was a work of literature tend to get it, at least much better than the people who come with a "this is an extremely serious work" attitude

apropos to nothing posted:

basically if someone says the us should go to war with China then we should all make fun of him and give him red texts and dunce avatars. and if someone says China is not repressing their ethnic minorities then we should laugh at them and make jokes at their expense. and if someone types a word that is forbidden instead of using a synonym which means the same thing or typing the first letter of the word and the the word word, then you should
laugh at them and make fun of them if you like and through this whole process all the mods should do is punish people who commit real life crimes so basically only themselves and that none of this is ideological on their part they’re just morons as are all of the users. ultimately in a few years most of the people in this subforum will decide they’re no longer into socialism or Stalin or whatever but instead user modified nerf Mavericks again and the mods will ban people in the alternative toy sub forum for liking super soakers instead and calling the nerf maverick users liberals

DanteDevils posted:

Disputing the Uighur Genocide narrative is really ban-worthy now?

apropos to nothing posted:

china 100% is doing some if not all of what theyre accused of. theyve been arresting and censoring socialists of every stripe in the mainland and especially HK recently with the most recent and well known being leung kwok-hung earlier today. obviously thats no justification for the US doing anything and if they try it will require mass demonstrations. both biden and xi seem to be stoking nationalist rhetoric about the other in order to help distract from domestic political and economic problems. trump did the same thing and comrades in china have written a lot about how xis been doing it for years now and just recently gave a speech to the military saying they need to be prepared to defend the country and theyve been increasingly aggressive on the indian border and running military exercises in the taiwan straight. again, no justification for us war caus the us is evil as hell but both countries seem to want to whip people up about a us-china conflict. its bad.

Larry Parrish posted:

It sucks rear end that this forum occasionally has good posting but they put the worst offenders in the world when it comes to being super uncritical in charge lol. And how does this forum have 45 mods and IKs and I've only ever seen like 4 post? Even if you're a mega thread dipshit who needs to gently caress off like smarxist you think they'd post somewhere I'd see it eventually, right? It's the worst mods since the GBS era where they had stars such as the mod who got horny sniffing women's hair on the bus and was probably a pedophile, the other ones that were pedophiles etc. So using my power of deductive reasoning I can only assume that the CSPAM mods are also pedophiles, since they are equally unsociable and too weird to live in a free society

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

lollontee posted:

maybe the mods should stop loving children then

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

Eox posted:

would be nice if fluffdaddy would stop loving kids long enough to come talk to us about this, we can be reasonable

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

McConnell posted:

Genocide... is pretty bad!

Raskolnikov38 posted:

the new mod line seems to be that America’s concentration camps are not actually concentration camps “because of the implication”. I look forward to them also applying this rule to the PRC as well

any minute now

comedyblissoption posted:

a forum cop is someone who enforces their bad decisions and doesnt tolerate sass even when the community overwhelmingly tells them they suck rear end

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Yossarian-22 posted:

any good sources for good leftist critique of china that isn't from people who are connected to the cia or weird trotskyist cults? or like perspectives on china that are evenhanded? tia

Flavius Aetass posted:

justify repression

apropos to nothing posted:

its totally alien to genuine marxism. china is an imperialist power, if you disagree with that assessment then you disagree and its a separate argument but not sure how current events and the last 30+ years could give anyone any indication otherwise. the us is also an imperialist power. socialists oppose any kind of imperialist war, something that both the us and chinese state are increasingly stirring up nationalism and patriotism around. but the solution is not to back one imperialist power over another, the solution is to organize the international working class to resist imperialist war. revolutionary defeatism doesnt mean the russian socialists work to undermine the russian war effort so germany can win, they undermine the russian war effort with the understanding that their comrades in germany will do the same and convince the german workers to oppose the war in the same way the russians do. if youre worried about the us state department ginning up for war with china, you should be equally concerned about how the chinese state is doing the exact same thing, because the only way to prevent a war or even cold war is to organize the workers of both countries to resist. and that means that you cant present a separate message to workers in one country and a different one in another, it means an international program that recognizes the reality for all workers.

you disagree with that analysis? thats fine, maybe youre right. i would encourage you to build actual links with cothinkers in china and everywhere else in the world. not media figures or journalists whose takes you passively engage with but actual comrades and cothinkers who you can discuss and debate issues with under a shared understanding of mutual goals. anyway, gently caress the mods and most of the posters, free larry, et.al.

apropos to nothing posted:

will do everything we can to build the case against war with china or any nation by the us

F Stop Fitzgerald posted:

yeah they will retaliate and probe you