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fishmech posted:No more so then everything else about the Iowa caucus. For instance, picking cards out of a deck to decide was done in at least one precinct in the 1992 or 2004 primaries. I forget which one. Most people I see talking about the coin toss poo poo are less "FRAUD!" and more "haha oh my god Iowa caucuses are so loving insane".
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Feb 3, 2016 03:44
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Neeksy posted:Most people I see talking about the coin toss poo poo are less "FRAUD!" and more "haha oh my god Iowa caucuses are so loving insane". Ugh, not on my facebook. Why can't my Berners be more pro-Bern and less RARGH CHEATING SHE-DEMON OF THE BANKS!!!
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Feb 3, 2016 03:50
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Xenophon posted:Ugh, not on my facebook. Why can't my Berners be more pro-Bern and less RARGH CHEATING SHE-DEMON OF THE BANKS!!! 
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Feb 3, 2016 03:52
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Northjayhawk posted:You can't award half a delegate. Someone has to win, how else do you break a tie other than a coin flip? Why not? All you need then is one more half delegate from another precinct to add up to one from each campaign.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:00
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Fuschia tude posted:Why not? All you need then is one more half delegate from another precinct to add up to one from each campaign. It's against the rules. Precincts must return whole number delegates.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:02
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Fuschia tude posted:Why not? All you need then is one more half delegate from another precinct to add up to one from each campaign. A delegate is a delegate. You can't say its only half.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:04
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Xenophon posted:Ugh, not on my facebook. Why can't my Berners be more pro-Bern and less RARGH CHEATING SHE-DEMON OF THE BANKS!!! Be facebook friends with me, I'm the chill bernie bro that posts ironic pictures from SA and promises that Bernie will get rid of Rachel from Cardholder Services phonecalls.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:05
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What about a pair of paraplegics?
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Feb 3, 2016 04:06
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Fuschia tude posted:Why not? All you need then is one more half delegate from another precinct to add up to one from each campaign. There's probably a good joke somewhere in the Democratic caucuses arguing about half delegates while the Republicans had a midget as Jeb's featured speaker in one precinct, but hell if I can dig it out.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:06
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soscannonballs posted:A delegate is a delegate. You can't say its only half. Midgets could represent half delegates. Problem solved.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:06
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Xenophon posted:Ugh, not on my facebook. Why can't my Berners be more pro-Bern and less RARGH CHEATING SHE-DEMON OF THE BANKS!!! My facebook is pretty much all HOLY poo poo THIS WAS AWESOME! I CANT BELIEVE HOW CLOSE WE GOT!!! WOOO KEEP PHONE BANKING!
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Feb 3, 2016 04:09
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fishmech posted:It's against the rules. Precincts must return whole number delegates. Yup. Besides, "delegates" aren't an abstract mathematical construct, they're living human beings. Each precinct will be sending a particular number of people to the next step, each of whom supports one candidate or another, and they get those numbers as close as they can to the ratio of the preference vote last night. You can't send a fractional person, at least not without a table saw.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:23
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fishmech posted:It's against the rules. Precincts must return whole number delegates. The reason for this is that the precinct caucuses are electing delegates to the county caucuses. You cannot send half a person to the county caucus.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:23
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Joementum posted:The reason for this is that the precinct caucuses are electing delegates to the county caucuses. You cannot send half a person to the county caucus. watch me
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Feb 3, 2016 04:48
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You're not my dad!
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Feb 3, 2016 04:50
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Is there any reason why they shouldn't just drop a contested delegate, send one less?
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Feb 3, 2016 04:56
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Let's ask King Solomon who won Iowa.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:58
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remusclaw posted:Is there any reason why they shouldn't just drop a contested delegate, send one less? That would mean sending 0 delegates. You only need to do tiebreakers in single delegate precincts.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:58
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But if its a tie, shouldn't that be the net result anyway?
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Feb 3, 2016 04:59
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remusclaw posted:Is there any reason why they shouldn't just drop a contested delegate, send one less? Yes. That precinct earned that delegate because of the percentage that voted democratic in the last election. (The Dems in Iowa reward precincts who vote democrat and punish precincts that don't). Its also why you can't combine half-delegates from different precincts and send the one guy, that community earned the representation, you can't take one away just because they happened to split evenly on the presidential preference. You have to find a fair way to break the tie and give the spot to someone standing in that room. There really is no option other than a game of chance, and anything other than a coin flip is stupid because people don't walk around with decks of cards or dice in their pockets.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:00
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OK thanks. A way around it might be to double the amount of delegates each place that earns one gets. Thus, there will always be at least 2, and so they can be split. Too many people?
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Feb 3, 2016 05:02
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remusclaw posted:But if its a tie, shouldn't that be the net result anyway? No, are you high or somethin'? Removing their representation means everyone there is hosed over.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:03
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I asked because I didn't know, you an rear end in a top hat or something?
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Feb 3, 2016 05:05
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soscannonballs posted:A delegate is a delegate. You can't say its only half. Jeb Bush has a clear route to the nomination, but first, we need to talk about parallel universes.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:10
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remusclaw posted:OK thanks. A way around it might be to double the amount of delegates each place that earns one gets. Thus, there will always be at least 2, and so they can be split. Too many people? You can't remove the possibility of a tie by doubling the number of things to be apportioned, because they can be apportioned between more than two candidates. O'Malley did get a few.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:11
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The person earlier said "You only need to do tiebreakers in single delegate precincts." was that incorrect? Because that's what I was basing that idea off of. The alternative, to cut down on delegates added is instead of doubling, is to start with a base of two, first earned nets two delegates, after that one per. remusclaw has issued a correction as of 05:16 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 05:12
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Northjayhawk posted:You can't award half a delegate. Someone has to win, how else do you break a tie other than a coin flip? Wow, people really will defend anything. Award a half delegate to each or just award it to undecided. Or keep recounting until one side wins. The whole "delegate" construct is an insane farce anyway. Ideally just get rid of the caucus system entirely.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:17
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Vox Nihili posted:Wow, people really will defend anything. Award a half delegate to each or just award it to undecided. Or keep recounting until one side wins. Delegates are actual people who participate in actual meetings.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:18
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remusclaw posted:The person earlier said "You only need to do tiebreakers in single delegate precincts." was that incorrect? Because that's what I was basing that idea off of. The number of total delegates at a precinct isn't the issue. No matter how many delegates there are, the precinct can end up in some sort of tie due to viability thresholds and the number of people who show up. For instance a small precinct gets 1 delegate. 30 people show up and 3 of the candidates each get 10 people in their camp. Now if they had a delegate count divisible by three there'd be no issue, but then what if that same group distributed themselves differently? Gyges has issued a correction as of 05:22 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 05:19
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fishmech posted:That would mean sending 0 delegates. You also need to break ties when a precinct has an odd number of delegates.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:21
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I suppose dragging in the first person you see crossing the street outside to be a tie breaker would have it's objectors? Too likely to be a known partisan.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:22
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Vox Nihili posted:Wow, people really will defend anything. Award a half delegate to each or just award it to undecided. Or we could just flip a coin, which makes a lot more sense than keeping track of "half a delegate". We're not talking about sophisticated educated people working within the party apparatus, these are whoever shows up from the neighborhood, we need X names written down on a piece of paper stating that these people were chosen as county delegates, and hopefully they all show up at the county caucus next month.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:24
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Joementum posted:Delegates are actual people who participate in actual meetings. Yeah, that's dumb. But there's no reason you couldn't send someone as unassigned.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:26
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The selected delegates go on to make more decisions than just the nominee. They will also vote on the platform at the convention. They'll vote on the state party leaders. They'll help schedule the next series of caucuses and conventions. They'll adopt new bylaws for the party. They'll decide how party funds are dispersed. It's in the party's interest to ensure that these people are interested in being involved in the business of the party.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:27
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What happens when there's a tie between many candidates? Do they find the guy at the caucus that plays a lot of Dungeons & Dragons?
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Feb 3, 2016 05:28
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i guess you could have them all flip coins, eliminate people who don't get a heads at each round (unless everybody gets tails, then you try again), and go until one of the last two people gets tails
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Feb 3, 2016 05:30
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Vox Nihili posted:But there's no reason you couldn't send someone as unassigned. Yes, there is. "Unaffiliated" is its own preference group. My caucus had literally zero unaffiliated voters, and thats not going to be uncommon, people who are willing to show up and endure an hour or more of bullshit probably have an opinion.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:31
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Lycus posted:What happens when there's a tie between many candidates? Do they find the guy at the caucus that plays a lot of Dungeons & Dragons? Probably either drawing straws or picking cards from a deck.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:34
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They should use Roulette wheels at the Nevada caucus. Double 0 means Chafee gets a delegate.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:35
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somewhere in the west it's in the official rules that ties are broken with a hand of poker
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Feb 3, 2016 05:38
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