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I'm still catching up with this thread but this game is brilliant. I've spent a fair few hours trying to pull apart the puzzles and find the rules hidden behind them. I love hearing you argue with yourselves over what you're actually meant to do, and watching you guys just draw one straight line and declare "I DID IT" (regardless of what the puzzle says) never ceases to amuse me. I must admit I have frequently done both those things out of sheer desperation. This game is good for desperation. So far I've done all the lasers apart from the Greenhouse, so I'm stuck exactly where you guys are at the end of episode "I like pizza" and now I'm going to have to either beat this poo poo or stop watching the LP. I can't even read the thread from that point because I am unable to not read spoilers. Yeeeeeah. which makes it really annoying because I quite want to see how you guys deal with some of the other amazing stupid stuff you have to pick up on. That's one of the great things about how this game works. It allows you to make connections yourself and frequently tests you on the methods you use, but you're free to try whatever you want. And it makes discussing the game really interesting because different people have issues with different things, and start from different assumptions. Some people tell me Tetris is something they immediately got, but I just couldn't get them to work. And when I actually got started with them, I really didn't understand how they were meant to interact when they were too close together. It was actually the yellow Tetris bridge in town that taught me how that worked, I would never have got that mechanic from the tutorials in the swamp. On the other hand, the glare puzzles in the Ruins were mostly a breeze for me up until the very last few water-based ones. It's really because I found this area right at the start, immediately after finishing the Symmetry section, still buzzing because I was on a roll having found all the puzzles on the front of the Ruins, and that good mood kept me going right through it. StarkRavingMad posted:The best part of watching Witness let's plays is seeing people learn the wrong lesson from something and silently screaming. Not that I didn't make several of the same errors myself. Glazius posted:It looks like the light coming through the workshop roof is trying to create a path too. So easy to see patterns in dots and lines.
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Mar 29, 2016 01:36
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| # ¿ May 18, 2024 18:41 |
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Bottom. I know the one he means; there aren't many laser boxes you can get to from below.
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Mar 29, 2016 05:43
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I'm now caught up with the LP again. It's great to see you guys just burn through things I had trouble getting my head round, especially considering the trouble you had with the soundwave puzzles in the Jungle, and your (admittedly justifiable) refusal to play along with the glare puzzles beneath the Ruins, both of which didn't really bother me all that much.AbstractNapper posted:Yeah, as I suspected, you blasted through the greenhouse/ elevator section way way faster than I did. I think I spent a few hours there. Still, I'm happy that I could do it on my own. Fiendly posted:Those birdcall puzzles might be my favorite among the ones we've seen so far. I honestly hope they take it to the logical conclusion and force you to compose a tune with the puzzle instead of just mimic one. You were very very close to the solution of the one you gave up on with your last attempt, you just didn't notice that the final note was the same as second note. Shaded Spriter posted:I was hoping one of them remembered to go down the stairs next session but we have friendly thread reminders instead. I don't think I ever found that Purple staircase when I was playing...I am surprised that isn't a video puzzle door room. FPzero posted:The 277 + 11 puzzle count means you've solved 277 puzzle boards and 11 environmental puzzles. The +11 is not a counter of how many you did in that play session. Also, are you guys planning on posting Amy's notes? I have screenshots of the four video puzzles I've found so far but actually taking notes isn't something I tend to do, and I haven't yet found something that annoyed me enough to do so, even if it might save me some time and stress (although one thing I've found might just make me change my mind). We already get a good bit of your reasoning through the video, but with some of the other puzzles, the colour elevator as one example, it might be neat to see your efforts.
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Mar 31, 2016 02:32
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You've got a habit of that, you'll get very close to a solution and then decide to find something different to be wrong about. Like you'll visibly draw the right shape, or you'll cordon off the right thing, and then give up. I think the same kind of thing happened with that second/third subtractions puzzle, where Amy literally drew the correct solution but then decided something was wrong. You'll get there, though, it's a game that is largely about how many times you can call yourself an idiot. I can't count the amount of puzzles I've had trouble with where I've stressed over a solution, only to come back a day later and immediately complete it. Edit: Talking about the Video puzzles, you might be surprised that you've not found more but I think the first one is kind of put there for you to find, right on the first path out of the fort you start at. The rest are a lot more out of your way. Out of the four I have, I can only remember where three were, and I don't have a clue where the missing ones might be despite having covered a lot of the game so far. Don't fret too much about it. TheDarkFlame fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Apr 1, 2016 |
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Apr 1, 2016 21:53
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Arctos posted:
The game loves hiding figures and features in the environment. The first video-room bunker you find has this lovely little cloud-tree outside the window:  And here are two figures you can find if you look carefully. I'm going to have to go and screenshot some more because while sometimes it's hard to tell whether your pareidolia is playing up or not, there are a lot of figures in places and the game has a lot of perspective tricks that aren't actually puzzles. I know Pete was looking, and I was looking too, but is there actually a secret in that video? Maybe it is behind the screen somehow, I've looked and couldn't find anything suspect but I don't want to spend an hour looking for something if it involves watching that video eighteen times in a fruitless search for nothing. I know there are puzzles connected to the videos themselves, I managed to find the green one, by accident, which was at the time an impressive level of bullshit for me. Edit: Went back to get a couple of screenshots, here's the praying lady.  If you're not yet seeing it, here.  And as I'm here, here's good shots of a couple that we've seen already.   I'm sure there are more that I can't remember. It's not just reflections and shadows. The statues like to interact sometimes, too. 
TheDarkFlame fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 21:59
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You guys stared right at the "reflected giant praying lady" for like 10 seconds in a previous video but never noticed.
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Discendo Vox posted:Check the bushes near the desert. You mean the kinda empty space between the ruins and the quarry? I didn't find any clouds that properly fitted the barren trees there, but I did find this cute stick insect bush.  I hope you guys don't mind me posting these things, but I think details like this are really cool, even if they're just innocuous background things rather than actual brainpower-related puzzle stuff. I'm glad you guys are LPing this game because it's the sort of game that I get frustrated with easily, and I'd given up on actually finishing it for a while before I tried to catch up with this thread. Then there's neat visual stuff like this which makes me go back into the game and explore more, to see what else I can find, and while I'm there I pick up another few panels here and there, maybe accidentally find something that makes me realise I'm not as close to finished as I thought.
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Apr 13, 2016 15:12
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pedrovay2003 posted:Hoo, boy, guys... It's time for part 24, and it's a doozy. Amy actually sounds like she's in physical pain by the end. :P Yes! I'm glad you guys got to this point. The above reaction is exactly the reaction this mechanic deserves. There is a fine line between "Oh my god this game" and "Oh my god this loving game", the theatre definitely crosses that line in a couple of ways. I actually realised the problem with the theatre room when I looked around the room and saw the doorway and the viewing frame, both outlined with puzzles that had a broken starting circle. I believe there are five in total? Good luck figuring out which one(s) fit which video. It's not completely ridiculous: For the first three, there aren't too many circles and the two coloured frames are quite distinct colours. Which makes their placement more of a bastard. So once you know what they are, it becomes a tedious matter of getting into a very specific place and clicking at the exact moment. The other two puzzles... Well I haven't done that yet, because uggh gently caress you can only push against a brick wall for so long. How far are you guys now, anyway? We're not at 7 lasers yet, so what are we missing? pedrovay2003 posted:No, it wasn't terrible, it was just really long.
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May 3, 2016 00:30
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I'm going to lay off the spoilers for a while, my last post was enough about the theatre room and how dumb it can be, save that for our next video room session (if there is one). Or for if you guys want to do a round-up of some environmental puzzles and stuff, as some of those are convoluted enough that I don't think I could help complaining about them. So let's get to talking about progress you made. You got to the colour room! It seems so hard to get that sound puzzle when you find a soundproofed room with a broken speaker, it's hard to believe the answer is as simple as drawing the same series of pitches on both boards. And it's just as simple to forget which notes are which sized dots. But you got there! And yeah, the solution to the two colour puzzles are as you surmised: There are a few different colours in there but under different R, G or B lights, different ones show up. You have to figure out what the original colours were (or, at least, which ones belong to which groups), and then solve that complete puzzle as if it were unfiltered, under natural light. And you guys ran through the greenhouse easily enough. You'll manage it. And you figured out the red flower puzzle that surprised you at the start of the game! You have conquered that, you can conquer the water temple, you can conquer the mountain. Probably. Right? Environment puzzles like the ones on the front of the monastery can be pretty cool and there are a huge number of them that are obvious in retrospect, especially ones where there is such an obvious circle that your brain doesn't make the connection until you start staring at things too hard and try to solve things through sheer force of will rather than actual thinking. I found I was more likely to ignore a full circle if it looked like a deliberate part of the scenery, but when I saw two thirds of a circle or a botched, incomplete circle, it'd stick out and make me a lot more suspicious... I think you got all the ones on the front of that building, but there's a good way to check: Go have a look at the nearest obelisk, which for those is in sight of where you stood, just by the jungle area. They show the (sometimes unrecognisable) image you're supposed to draw, and will light up all the ones you've done. There's a logic to how they're displayed, too, but it's sometimes a touch misleading. Generally it's not too bad though. And you guys wanted to know about the rotating panel? Well, it actually has two purposes but you can't use it for anything yet. It'll be clear what it does when you can use it, but you don't need to worry about it quite yet. The only major section you haven't done yet is the Desert Ruins, and then there's the Mountain to do. I did it! No spoilers. Okay, some hints here and there, but no sp- Bruceski posted:Oh, and I saw a dot to click on in this video during the Connections movie (the first one). Where is left as an exercise to others, because where's the fun in only one guy figuring it out? Oh, god damnit. Did you really see it? Well, there's actually two. There is one for the doorway, and this is the one for the frame. TheDarkFlame fucked around with this message at 01:24 on May 4, 2016 |
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May 4, 2016 01:21
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The mirror confused the hell out of me for ages. In games, if something exists, there is a reason. A hidden path has to lead to something interesting. A high point has to give a good view of something important (or the developer's favourite piece of scenery). A given item has a purpose. Risk has to have a reward, choices have to make a difference, and the path that actually matters can wait until everything else is solved and it's the only option remaining. Video game logic. So everything matters in some way (perspectives, pathways, hidden puzzles) and then you have this mirror. The mirror exists to reflect the laser to the mountain. Why is the laser not pointing at the mountain? Because there is a mirror to reflect it. It's kind of circular, and the mirror doesn't present another challenge in any way, so both things seem to be redundant. Why even have the mirror turn? It's another puzzle, of course it is, it's all puzzles.SSNeoman posted:You guys should also grab all the film things. You mean the six hexagonal video puzzles? Bad news: One is a bastard. We know/suspect that one is behind the ship door, which is doable in a way, sure, but another one of the film hexagons is hidden behind a challenge that requires you to first beat the game and it is not something you can be methodical about. I think they can, if they try, beat the game, but I don't think they will be cracking that door open. Especially for the sake of the LP, I would rather give them the answer to the hexagon puzzle than force them to run that gauntlet. And even then, that video isn't exactly LP-friendly. They can get into the right area and see all the stuff there, though, which might be cool. Some thematically neat audiologs and stuff too, but if we don't get there I entirely understand. We do need to do the special ending too, but as stated before that can be found easily enough. No rush. IronSaber posted:YOU FINALLY FOUND THE CLOUD PUZZLE I WAS HINTING AT ALL THIS TIME Ok, this one does have a neat trick but we're going to have to work our way up to that. If you're going to pass out locations let's start with something less obtuse and confusing. There's even some they could try right in the starting area, which would be less ridiculous (and only one/two that would be more so). Or you could ask them to go boating, let's say from the town dock to the symmetry dock. Or get them to check out the front and back of the boat and see what they can see. Or, if you want to really confuse them and then give them an answer that really doesn't help them in any way, you could tell them to examine the pond. If you want to know how to examine the pond, check out the map the boat gives you. Anything look familiar? Oh, and question for people who have completed the game: How hard did you find it to actually get into the mountain? I found one solution quickly and then after some time I had to go and do other things because it just wasn't working out. I came back a day or two later and managed to find the other two.
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May 8, 2016 14:54
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The mountaintop is one of those puzzles you can't simply take screenshots of and doodle solutions to, it's something you really have to mull over in-game. You can kind of find answers to it just by trying different angles and seeing where you can go. It took me a while to get the first one, I thought I'd succeeded and then saw the other two yellow lines. A couple days later I came back and did them, but that first solution was a frustrating moment of not-quite achievement. I'm not going to tell you where those shortcuts come from, but I am going to tell you I found three doors that would lead to it, and then spent over an hour, scouring the desert, the quarry, the monastery area and the town, trying to find another way into the drat thing. Then gave up and found it much later after I'd forgotten where I was going. I think this lecture/interview is my favourite video, because it's not so tedious to watch, it's interesting, it's got a sense of humour about it, it explains itself really well, and it tackles the subject of religion and science without being venomous and condescending, which is a big issue in that kind of discussion. Other videos are slow, irritating, or have goddamn puzzles hidden inside them. I feel like Peter has been reading more than the acceptable amount of spoilers. Not only does he know about the secret timed challenge ending, he immediately tried to look for something on the other sides of the box. Also, regarding the special ending: I'm willing to give you guys a hint on where to find it, as long as you don't actually do it until you beat the game, mostly because I'm pretty sure you'll either have the exact same reaction as me, or completely the opposite reaction, and either would be good.
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May 11, 2016 17:34
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Shaded Spriter posted:The end points - they don't exist until you select a start point in the PS4 version then only one of them appears it does make it easier. Pretty sure they were there in my game. Huh. And it's not like I can just jump back into the game for this one, because I'd have to play a substantial amount of the game to get there. But I'm pretty sure.
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May 13, 2016 18:35
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure B.F. Skinner is THE Skinner, and for anyone who hasn't done some level of Psychology course, Amy's right in saying that Skinner boxes are experimental tools, basically a chamber that will reward a test animal with food under certain circumstances, to reinforce the test animal's actions and make it learn the required task. Pressing a button, pulling a lever, performing specific actions, any of these things. It lets you study changes in behaviour while removing all external variables. Pidgeons get used fairly often, that's why he mentions pidgeons specifically, but they also use rats because pidgeons are the dumbest things in the goddamn world. If you wanted to get a a pidgeon to traverse a maze successfully, I don't see that working well, but rats are great alternatives for anything that might be slightly complex. My favourite one I heard about was the superstitious pidgeons, but I don't remember the specifics. Basically, the experiment involved a bunch of pidgeons, and a device that would release food on a timer. There was no other trigger for the food. But when the food dropped, the pidgeons couldn't figure out why there was food. So whatever they were doing when the food dropped, they'd continue doing it. Bobbing their heads, flapping their wings, walking in circles, over and over again in order to summon food. And then food arrived again, a set amount of time later. So in their mind, repetitive action = food. Obviously not the case, but you're a pidgeon in a box, you don't really know any better. And then when the food stopped coming entirely, they settled down. When the food was reapplied, they remembered their actions from before and once again continued doing them.
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May 18, 2016 15:09
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A lot of the difficulty of these puzzles isn't the actual puzzle icon mechanics, but the way you interact with them. You can't see the entire puzzle at once, which makes it much harder to visualise a solution. You've never had a puzzle that wraps around on itself, so working without the side boundaries is unfamiliar and separating colours and icons is a more awkward task. If there had been a set of panels that had this mechanic somehow, and you'd had the chance to get a good grasp of the wraparound mechanic, it'd be much less stressful. You can only find one pillar before this point, and it's hardly a tutorial. The mountain is a pretty good final hurdle, a series of things you've never had to manage before, but using the same mechanics you've learned through the game, just presented in different (and sometimes unpleasant) ways to complicate things. There isn't much left to do, obviously the Ship door which is not too bad, there is one more area you can find that will, if you push through it, give you more puzzle panels, more environment puzzles, a few more audiologs, some new shortcuts, and the Challenge. It's quite a bit of work to get there though, and I understand if you guys want to call it here, after these last pillars and then the other ending, which I think Peter already knows, or has some idea, of how to do. You've done really well with this. Post above: Not yet. They've done everything they need to do for that except activate that cable, but they haven't found the switch yet. TheDarkFlame fucked around with this message at 00:50 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 00:46
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I'm glad you guys finished this. You've done a great job, and your LP kept me going through my playthrough, which has made me get much more out of it than I would of my own volition, and I even made myself do the challenge before you guys could the game, so thanks for that. I know what you mean about the game dragging near the end, but I feel that's because you're pushing your way through the game to make something you can put up, rather than just taking it at your own pace and exploring what takes your interest. It's not a sprint, it's more of a stroll, it's a very meditative kind of game and whenever I got stuck with something I found that bashing my head against it was less helpful than just taking a while off, or going to look at something else. All the little atmospheric, environmental things are cool distractions from the frustration of the puzzles. But thanks to you guys piquing my interest over and over, I'm pretty sure all I need to do now is find some audiologs. I even did the hour-long video bullshit! So here's some neat things you might want to look at in the last video. Spoiled in sections if you want more information. The lake in the centre of the island is important. Look at the glowing lanterns. If you can't see what's up, get on a boat, and check out the map on the boat. The lake is visible on the map. The lake is the map. The last area, behind the beneath of the mountain, requires eleven lasers. Seven lasers let you use the box that opened the mountain. Eleven lets you get deeper into the mountain but you have to find the switch. Look at the yellow box again. The switch you already solved extends to the base of the box, and the path it opens can be reached from the glum-looking jigsaw statue in the mountain. Quickly, now. Once you're there there's a few neat things. A bunch of new puzzles, and some stuff to explore, but if you can't do everything here don't worry. Some of these puzzles are new kinds of bullshit to you. Audiologs in this area are particularly important, and kind of neat. Do you remember an audiolog that ended with a random "What?" a while ago, well you'll find it again. But each audiolog is different, so keep listening. There is a pillar puzzle you will want to do, which will allow you access to the very last of the shortcuts and audiologs. Some cool stuff. There are a lot of environmental puzzles still to find, some of them are less dumb than others. Some you will have walked by a million times; Others you will never see until you're looking and then immediately find them. Pick a pillar, pick a shape, and then turn 180 degrees. You should look over that way to find that shape. I'd love to coax you into getting some of the more interesting/irritating ones, but I don't know how much more video you have left in you. Even if you don't get round to all this, it's been a great ride.
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Jun 1, 2016 00:31
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I can't believe you guys completed that pillar in basically one go. You seem to breeze through anything I had too much trouble with. I stayed away from that pillar, and completed every single puzzle except that pillar in the hope that one of them did something. I realised that the pitch-black corridor had to be something early on, but I just do not like interacting with those pillar puzzles. I feel dumb for posting hints for you in my last post when you'd probably already recorded the video and stuff, I swear I'm trying to help. Good to see you're getting to the very end. And yeah, the audiologs in here are the most interesting, rather than being thoughtful quotes that are sometimes relevant to where you are, these meta-behind-the-scenes logs feel a lot more involved with the game and the ideas behind it. I can't believe that I missed the one you found here, but I did hear another one which I think is meant to be after that log and follows a similar chain of thought. Once you've opened that door, you'll be able to access the last of the shortcuts in the game. And you'll find the way to re-lock the big white door. I don't think there's much left to point you to except the pond, some neat dioramas and a ton of environmental puzzles. Good work guys.
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Jun 3, 2016 21:44
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