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What the gently caress https://twitter.com/ValLisitsa/status/863841029044273152
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May 16, 2017 17:59
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The stories coming out of Ukraine are nuts, what the hell https://twitter.com/ValLisitsa/status/863497802437013505
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May 17, 2017 01:23
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/29/vladimir-putin-russia-pension-reforms-retirement Maybe this is the thing that could do Putin in? Hard to see people being able to stomach austerity for olds in a country that's become infamous for obligarch luxury.
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Aug 29, 2018 16:47
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Crazy. I can't imagine living in a country where the vast majority of the media toes the same line on major issues.
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Aug 29, 2018 21:05
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Anyone have a good resource for reading up on the extreme right/neo nazis entering the Ukrainian government, military and police?
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Dec 6, 2018 05:23
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cinci zoo sniper posted:You mean Groysman who is Jewish? I think it was a lovely attempt at a joke to deflect away from the question about the influence of extreme right wing nationalism in Ukraine right now.
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Dec 6, 2018 05:50
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This is pretty light on detail re: actual policies. Is she a pro privatization/corporatist style neoliberal, or a socially liberal progressive social democrat?
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Mar 31, 2019 19:40
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How has Ukraine been doing since the election? Are the neo nazis and fascists still ascendant in the country or has there been any success in clamping down on them?
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Jun 22, 2019 20:24
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Rinkles posted:not that it's a new phenomenon, but am i alone in finding the growing usage of the sickle and hammer offputting? No, many nazis also find it very problematic.
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Dec 8, 2019 19:24
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The fact that one set of looter oligarchs has been replaced by another probably hasn't helped either.
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Jul 21, 2020 22:28
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Grouchio posted:Post-Soviet politics sure is a hell of a depressant. What caused all of this corruption and stagnation to fester instead of welfare and security like in the Baltics? The baltics are tiny countries and idk if they're doing so well either. At least one of them relied on buying into the financial bubble of the 2000s and hasn't recovered since the crash, with net emigration and actually losing population year on year. I remember reading one of them trying to market themselves as a "tech hub" with their leader talking about the exciting possibilities of "blockchain" and I wonder how they've been doing since. I think another one survives by being a tax dodging shithole mila kunis fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jul 21, 2020 |
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Jul 21, 2020 23:42
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What are the major factions in contention for power if the current government is removed? Liberal privatizers? Socialists? Right wing nationalists? Pro Western /pro russians?
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Aug 18, 2020 04:35
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GABA ghoul posted:What do the reform plans that don't involve privatisation look like? Privatisation of at least the media seems kinda unavoidable to me. gently caress privatization.
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Aug 19, 2020 15:10
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https://twitter.com/zaborona_media/status/1316363833104109568 'White Lives Matter'.
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Oct 15, 2020 07:24
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Vasukhani posted:Odessa feels positively haunted. I remember some shop had literal "running of the jew" style "Jewish" figurines in the window. I was reading about the massacre of russian protestors and leftists in Odessa...like, five years ago lol https://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/09/videos-and-photos-of-the-odessan-massacre/ What a hosed up place, I wonder how many people faced any consequences quote:0.43-47 “Let us burn those motherf–kers right in the building, f–king faggots”
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Oct 20, 2020 01:03
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Flavahbeast posted:Structure fires are really good at killing a ton of people, whether you intend to or not. There was partisan fighting in Odessa for days but the vast majority of the deaths happened in that trade union fire I know this thread is full of people going to bat for pretty much anything as long as it vaguely aligns with us foreign policy but thank you for exceeding my expectations.
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Oct 20, 2020 05:13
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Somaen posted:Lol, weird how that "source" fails to mention that the "pro-russian protestors and leftists" had titushkis with guns shooting into crowds of Ukrainians before the event, which led directly to enraging the crowd and were coordinated by people who mysteriously ran away to Russia after things went to poo poo Weird how you fail to mention they were chased into and trapped in that building by loving mobs that were shooting into them, firing flares, and bloodily beating people that tried to escape. This was a pogrom with direct video evidence, this thread has some loving horrifying victim blaming.
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Oct 20, 2020 15:00
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Somaen posted:The clashes started when the paramilitarized pro-Russian mob attacking Ukrainian football fans killing several of them, who then in turn organized to fight back and pushed them back in violent clashes. The pro-russian "leftists and trade union activists" were titushkis organized to fuel violence and clashes. It's bad that the situation got to that and that the fire started and killed people, and I am sure many of them were innocent people not involved with organized paramilitary formations, just to be clear. But to frame it as evil Ukrainian hordes starting a pogrom against some peaceful activists sure is something and has nothing to do with reality. And I'll repeat myself since this going in circles: people were trapped into a building by a right wing nationalist mob, and shot at, jeered and beaten as they tried to escape a building on fire. This was absolutely a loving pogrom and there's no other way to frame it. None of that is 'bullshit lies', all of it is clearly visible since this event was recorded from multiple angles, and this thread is a reactionary haven in this forum where murder is justified because they were russian fifth columnists who had it coming.
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Oct 20, 2020 16:03
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Somaen posted:So do you feel like repeating this garbage narrative makes it more convincing to anyone? Yeah man this clip totally invalidates the siege with people shooting into a building with people trapped inside by a mob out to beat the poo poo out of them and throwing petrol bombs to burn them alive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4SgZi1s7Zw&t=120s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVXm9nnY-AQ You're a disingenuous and vile sack of poo poo defending a massacre but its ok since its against russians in a little safe haven on this forum because I guess this topic is too obscure for most people here to notice.
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Oct 20, 2020 18:35
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Paladinus posted:Well, darthzeta88 kind of tried to defend it, and I'll admit I thought it was you. Sorry about that. The only difference between them is Somaen prefixing his fascist apologism with "yes the deaths are tragic BUT" before going on to say the russians and leftists were evil foreign provocateurs who deserved to be set on fire by the far right ultra and ukranian nationalist mob.
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Oct 20, 2020 19:50
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CommieGIR posted:Here, let me help you here: Maybe you need to take a break from this thread. I also provided sources, and you've already outright dismissed them. Frankly, I don't think you are arguing in good faith. You left a link to a wikipedia article. I do not believe the soviets intended to ethnically cleanse ukraine, or kazakhstan or any of the regions affected. You don't need to be a tankie to believe this, it is an opinion soviet historians across the spectrum including extremely anti-communist ones like Stephen Kotkin hold: “Many contemporaries, such as the Italian ambassador, who traveled through Ukraine in summer 1933, deemed the famine deliberate.471 Monstrously, Stalin himself made the same accusation—accusing peasants of not wanting to work.472 Regime propaganda castigated the starving refugees besieging towns for “passing themselves off as ruined collective farmers.”473 Nonetheless, the famine was not intentional.474 It resulted from Stalin’s policies of forced collectivization-dekulakization, as well as the pitiless and incompetent management of the sowing and procurement campaigns, all of which put the country on a knife-edge, highly susceptible to drought and sudden torrential rains.475 Stalin appears to have genuinely imagined that increasing the scale of farms, mechanization, and collective efficiency would boost agricultural output. He dismissed the loss of better-off peasants from villages, only belatedly recognized the crucial role of incentives, and wildly overestimated the influx of machines. He twice deluded himself—partly from false reporting by frightened statisticians, partly from his own magical thinking—that the country was on the verge of a recovery harvest” [...] “Always grudgingly, Stalin approved, and in some cases initiated, reductions in grain exports, beginning already in September 1931; in 1932 and 1933 he signed reduced grain collection quotas for Ukraine, the North Caucasus, the Volga valley, Crimea, the Urals, the Central Black Earth region, the Kazakh autonomous republic, and Eastern Siberia on nine occasions.476 The 1933 grain procurement target fell from 24.3 to 19.6 million tons; the actual amount collected would be around 18.5 million tons.477, 478 Altogether, the regime returned about 5.7 million tons of grain back to agriculture, including 2 million tons from reserves and 3.5 million from procurements. Stalin also approved clandestine purchase of grain and livestock abroad using scarce hard currency.479 Just between February and July 1933, he signed or countenanced nearly three dozen small allocations of food aid to the countryside, primarily to the North Caucasus and Ukraine, as well as the Kazakh lands (which necessitated sharp reductions in the bread rations for city dwellers, many of whom were put on the brink of starvation). All of these actions were woefully insufficient for avoiding the mass starvation in the countryside caused by his policies, in the face of challenging natural conditions. Still, these actions do not indicate that he was trying to exterminate peasants or ethnic Ukrainians” - from Stalin Volume II: Waiting for Hitler, 1929-1941 It's a mainstream opinion that people have been trying to shunt to the wayside due to events in eastern europe in the last few years. It does not deny that millions of people died, nor does it absolve the USSR of its responsibility and the mismanagement that led to this disaster. The soviets DID do ethnic cleansing on several other occasions with population transfers (poles, tartars, etc) so falling back on specifically the holdomor instead of using the clear and obvious historical examples is something that has grown out of the close links between the american state and ukrainian nationalists, rendering your statement that "check with the ukrainian government - that's what they say!" particularly idiotic.
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Jan 10, 2022 17:36
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CommieGIR posted:And Russia's response was to invade Georgia and do some ethnic cleansing. That doesn't really justify their NATO fear. This is like some guy invading his neighbors while ranting about the neighborhood association having too much power. Are you referring to the 2008 war which was triggered by Georgia invading South Ossetia?
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Feb 14, 2022 17:40
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OddObserver posted:Uhh, except it's not true for political part of the statement? Unless of course you agree with me that various incarnations of pro-Russian parties should count on account of their ethnic supremacist ideology, that is, though they are more weirdo populist than traditional far right. Yeah man only the pro russians are ethnic supremacist, there's absolutely nothing going on in the ukrainian nationalist side. https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea The driver of this violence was largely the Ukrainian far right, which, while a minority of the protesters, served as a kind of revolutionary vanguard. Looking outside Kyiv, a systematic analysis of more than 3,000 Maidan protests found that members of the far-right Svoboda party — whose leader once complained Ukraine was run by a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia” and which includes a politician who admires Joseph Goebbels — were the most active agents in the protests. They were also more likely to take part in violent actions than any group but one: Right Sector, a collection of far-right activists that traces its lineage to genocidal Nazi collaborators. [...] Andriy Parubiy, the unofficial “commander of Maidan,” founded the Social-National Party of Ukraine — a barely even winking allusion to Nazism — that later became Svoboda. By January 2014, even NBC was admitting that “right-wing militia-type toughs are now one of the strongest factions leading Ukraine’s protests.” What was meant to be a revolution for democracy and liberal values ended up featuring ultranationalist chants from the 1930s and prominent displays of fascist and white supremacist symbols, including the American Confederate flag. [...] The same far right that had led the charge in toppling Yanukovych, including Parubiy, found themselves with plum roles in the interim government that followed, while the winner of the 2014 snap presidential election — Ukraine’s seventh-richest man, Petro Poroshenko — had a history of corruption. His interior minister soon incorporated the Azov Regiment, a neo-Nazi militia, into Ukraine’s National Guard, with the country now a Mecca for far-right extremists around the world, who come to learn and get training from Azov — including, ironically, Russian white supremacists who were hounded from their country by Putin. Despite far-right parties ultimately losing seats in Parliament, ultranationalist movements successfully shifted the country’s politics to the extreme right, with Poroshenko and other centrists backing measures to marginalize the speaking of Russian and glorify Nazi collaborators. Even so, far-right candidates have entered Parliament on non-far-right tickets, and extremists like former Azov commander Andriy Biletsky have taken high-ranking law enforcement positions. While far-right vigilantism spread through the country, Poroshenko himself granted citizenship to a Belarusian neo-Nazi and engaged in some borderline anti-Semitism of his own. [...] In truth, the Maidan Revolution remains a messy event that isn’t easy to categorize but is far from what Western audiences have been led to believe. It’s a story of liberal, pro-Western protesters, driven by legitimate grievances but largely drawn from only one-half of a polarized country, entering a temporary marriage of convenience with the far right to carry out an insurrection against a corrupt, authoritarian president. The tragedy is that it served largely to empower literal neo-Nazis while enacting only the goals of the Western powers that opportunistically lent their support — among which was the geopolitical equivalent of a predatory payday loan. https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/us-russia-nato-donbass-maidan-minsk-war The role of radical nationalists in Ukrainian politics is significant, via direct pressure on the government and dissemination of narratives. If you look at the actual policies that were taken by the post-Maidan government, you’ll see the program of radical nationalist parties, particularly decommunization, banning the Communist Party of Ukraine, and Ukrainianization, which means pushing the Russian language out of the Ukrainian public sphere. Many things that the far right campaigned on before Maidan were implemented by nominally non-far-right politicians. Nationalist radicalization is very good compensation for the lack of any revolutionary changes after the revolution. If you start, for example, to change something in the ideological sphere — renaming streets, taking away any Soviet symbols from the country, removing Vladimir Lenin’s statues that were standing in many Ukrainian cities — you create an illusion of change without actually changing in the direction of the people’s aspirations. [...] The radical nationalist parties, by contrast, have ideology, they have motivated activists, and at this moment, they are probably the only parties in the real sense of the word “party.” They are the most organized, the most mobilized parts of the civil society, with the strongest street mobilization. After 2014, they also got the resources for violence: they got the opportunities to create affiliated armed units and a broad network of training centers, summer camps, sympathetic cafés, and magazines. This infrastructure perhaps doesn’t exist in any other European country. It looks more like 1930s far-right politics in Europe than contemporary European far-right politics — which doesn’t rely so much on paramilitary violence but is instead capable of winning quite a broad part of the electorate.
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Feb 14, 2022 17:51
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OddObserver posted:The 2008 war which was triggered by Georgia opening fire on Russian troops entering the Georgian region of South Ossetia, and which ended with Russia engaging in ethnic cleansing of Georgians in the region. The "georgian region of south Ossetia" lmao. If Georgia had the right to secede from the USSR, Ossetia had the right to secede from the Georgian SSR. Georgia refused to recognize it and committed ethnic cleansing of native Ossetians. The 2008 war was absolutely a result of Georgian revanchism.
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Feb 14, 2022 17:54
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