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GaussianCopula posted:In more important news, six ~17-45 year old men from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan have molested young girls in swimming bath in Cologne. "I'm going to flee oppression to Europe only to get myself kicked out doing illegal poo poo while making all other refugees look bad" Good job guys, good job.
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Mar 7, 2016 16:59
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GaussianCopula posted:They most likely won't get kicked out because you are not allowed to send people to their death. Well, spend time in prison then.
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Mar 7, 2016 17:38
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Velkest posted:do you not know that for integration to suceed, we must pretend refugees are civil, lawabiding people who respect women and children, against all of reality? But most are? Unless we are now back to judging entire ethnic groups by the minority who commit crimes?
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Mar 7, 2016 17:47
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GaussianCopula posted:I really love the implications of the Syrian resettlement deal though. For every Syrian, who risked his life for nothing and who gets send back to Turkey, the EU will accept a hand picked Syrian to get a EU ticket, of which around 30% will be golden Germany tickets. Imagine you get selected for relocation and than get told "congratz, you get to live in Greece" The plot of
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Mar 7, 2016 18:31
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YF-23 posted:I know they dropped out of it somewhat recently, but they were part of it before (in the aftermath of Maidan), and the EU was backing Ukraine's government at that time also. I don't doubt that there have been frictions prior to the breakup given how wide a coalition that was. So what are you suggesting they do? Selectively support Ukraine's government?
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Mar 7, 2016 19:35
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GaussianCopula posted:https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/710837427573809153 "We're going to send refugees back under the care of a up and coming dictator! Woohoo!"
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Mar 18, 2016 16:01
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GaussianCopula posted:You get a "lower priority" than those people that did not enter the EU illegally, which basically means yes, no chance for you to get relocated directly from Turkey. I don't think you understand how 'refugees' work. Sure hope the despotic dictator they are fleeing gives them time to fill out the proper forms!
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Mar 18, 2016 16:46
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GaussianCopula posted:That's how the US are* doing it. *is. I'm sure Turkey is a-okay with taking the brunt of these refugees, its not like Turkey has any beef with any specific religious sects at the moment..... ....wait a minute.
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Mar 18, 2016 17:33
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V. Illych L. posted:the focus with closing the balkan route is also stupid in a big way. if there's one thing refugee crises have taught us, it's that people can and will find new, less safe routes when the safer ones are closed down I think this agreement is basically the EU saying: We're okay with you drowning. We've done our part 
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Mar 18, 2016 17:41
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GaussianCopula posted:I don't think you can argue that the number of refugees arriving is not dependent on the question of how expansive and how dangerous it is to get to Europe. You won't be able to reduce the number of arrivals to zero, but you can reduce it substantially. 2,600 dead and climbing. Yeah, this isn't looking good for you. Its not going to stop them. Just increase risk. You'll just have more deaths on your hands, but I guess deaths don't cost anything now, do they?
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Mar 18, 2016 17:47
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I love all the people acting like this will discourage people who were already so desperate as to try to cross the Mediterranean in a rubbery dingy while perfectly aware there was a strong chance they would drown.
CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 18:06
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GaussianCopula posted:Hint: Not every human has the god given right to live in central Europe. Breaking the law involves certain risks that others are not liable for. Breaking the law or death. Such difficult choices refugees must make. Also: What a delightful little world you live in where its so easy to wipe your hands of these deaths. Pretty much all this deal does is increased the likelihood refugees with be abused or die trying to flee. That's it. Turkey is not going to offer them solace either, because Erdrogan is busy turning Turkey into a despotic poo poo hole.
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Mar 18, 2016 19:13
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GaussianCopula posted:Therefore we should all celebrate the deal that was made today, which allows legal immigration but disincentivises illegal (and dangerous) migration. No, it actually incentives it more. You really don't grasp how being a refugee works outside of an actual political process, do you? What you've done is given smugglers more incentives, refugees more desperation, and increased the likelihood the bodycount will sky rocket.
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Mar 18, 2016 19:37
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Tesseraction posted:Truly the economic union experiment is a roaring success. Charlie Mopps posted:What a roaring success for austerity. Austerity: Letting the wealth leave the country in the pockets of the wealthy while the market collapses. GaussianCopula posted:I don't get that logic. It's like saying "surgery is bad" because you were unable to save someone who got his head blast off with a shotgun. They need reform. Austerity is not reform, and Austerity only helps one group of people: The wealthy. It fucks everyone else, and basically leaves the economy in further tatters than before. But then again, its unsurprising coming from a guy that advocated throwing refugees under the bus of a up and coming dictator to 'save' the EU from suffering. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Mar 21, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 17:09
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steinrokkan posted:What IS the fundamental reform, how can it be implemented without external pressure, and how would it be affected by Greece's inability to service its debt? Nobody is saying that Greece's inability or unwillingness to reform isn't part of the issue. But neither is austerity going to make that happen. So its not worth bringing up. Because we know austerity: 1. Doesn't work. 2. Isn't supposed to work 3. Is just an excuse for investors to liquidate anything worthwhile and flee.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:15
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GaussianCopula posted:Please tell me the course of action that would have been preferable in your mind. Not austerity. Because if you are proposing austerity, you are out of your loving mind. steinrokkan posted:The third point - well, I respectfully disagree. And even if it weren't true, the Greeks aren't worse off due to austerity than they would be trying to fulfil their obligations on their own, possibly to the contrary. As I said, there are no possibilities that would leave the Greeks better off than their were, or even at their starting level, since you can't just decide "our economy is actually producing value now, and it doesn't require any capital to operate" And how would austerity help here, other than digging the hole even deeper.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:24
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steinrokkan posted:As I said, the point is to recognize the hole the country already is in and stop treading the air. It's a Looney Tunes cartoon scene in economic reality. Once the country falls to the bottom of the hole it ran into, it can start rising up with the help of capital starting to seek it again. steinrokkan posted:The austerity is the recognition that there are no magic words. It's not to make the Greeks better off, it's just to bring them down to the new normal in a controlled manner. If the Greeks don't like that, they should start lynching anybody complicit in running the country over the past 30 years. This is an awful idea. And in reality, probably won't do anything other than increase the problem and result in unnecessary suffering. Because in reality, in their case, there is likely no bottom to be had. In the end of this insane plan of action you've proposed, would probably just be the EU cutting ties and the IMF dusting their hands of the situation.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:30
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Tigey posted:Its not a matter of Austerity solving Greece's economic woes - it clearly is never going to, except in the minds of the true believers - its a matter of it being the only option in light of the unwillingness of the rest of the Eurozone to pump funds into Greece ad infinitum. The solution to failure is not to try more known failures. Austerity is a lose-lose and it always will be.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:32
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steinrokkan posted:Greece needs money to do anything at all. Greece has no money. Greece needs to depress its expenses to a level where its production factors productivity outweights their costs. At that point money will start coming in. I don't see another way other than pure altruism, which is not a thing that happens, ever. At the end of the day, I agree with you completely. But you, me, and the world knows that Austerity doesn't work. At all. And it makes zero sense to inflict something that is known to not work at all on them for no other reason than there is nothing else to do. I doubt Greece is going to be that one successful instance.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:39
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steinrokkan posted:Well, I guess the difference is that I think they would be doing even worse if let to deal with investor / creditor backlash without the external impositions. As bad as austerity is, at least it's a deliberate process rather than a country going into bankrupcy kicking and screaming with no means to stop the process and just throwing away even more money along the way. No, austerity would just speed up the process. Let's use the example austerity fans love using: Say Greece's budget is like a household budget (its not, not states is, but play along), austerity is the equivalent of saying: "Man, we're so deep in debt, I'm going to quit my job and we'll live in cardboard box and hope this all blows over" It will not decrease their budgetary issues. In fact, most likely, it will cut any sort of income they DID have down to nill. It doesn't work. Its not a method that will ever work. And every-time its been tried, its a miserable failure. Just because its a PLAN does not mean its a plan that should be tried. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Mar 21, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 23:47
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steinrokkan posted:It's not - it rests on the assumption that public sector spending in the given country is ineffective, and therefore doesn't work like the job in your allegory. So instead the government is steered into making monetary and fiscal decisions to favour export oriented private activity, and to minimize import consumption. So the theory is more like this: "I'll give up my dream of becoming a world class sculptor in addition to my day job, and instead of spending money on more marble, I'll start paying my child support." quote:In 2013 it published a detailed analysis concluding that "if financial markets focus on the short-term behavior of the debt ratio, or if country authorities engage in repeated rounds of tightening in an effort to get the debt ratio to converge to the official target," austerity policies could slow or reverse economic growth and inhibit full employment.[43] Keynesian economists and commentators such as Paul Krugman have suggested that this has in fact been occurring, with austerity yielding worse results in proportion to the extent to which it has been imposed You can keep harping on about it, its not working.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:53
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Tigey posted:Agree. Its completely irrelevant that it doesn't work. It is literally the only option open to Greece that is politically possible in its current context. "This won't cure your cancer, but hell, it won't NOT cure your cancer" 
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Mar 22, 2016 00:20
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Puistokemisti posted:"This won't cure your cancer but at least other patients don't burn the hospital down. Now, have you tried coffee enemas yet?" Probably as effective as austerity will be.
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Mar 22, 2016 00:25
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steinrokkan posted:People keep saying that, but really just as there are no cures to some cancer, I guess there are no happy endings to a national collapse. I have yet to see a recipe to Greece's problems that doesn't rely on guilting other countries into paying the Greek government to do its thing with no strings attached (which is what caused the current crisis in the first place) Not saying there is a cure to Greece. But Austerity ain't it either. We can still here all we want and wishy washy back and forth about one of the least effective, if effective at all, methods for solving economic crises, or we can accept that its also another dead end. steinrokkan posted:Face it, you will die no matter what, at least the coffee enema will give you the aura that you tried to do something. Its called false hope, and its disgustingly cruel and often takes advantage of people. Like austerity! Tigey posted:The problem is, the Doctor doesn't care, as long as he doesn't catch the cancer. Greeks economy being in shambles means that austerity is going to do nothing more than increase the pain on people that likely had nothing to do with the crash to begin with.
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Mar 22, 2016 00:28
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steinrokkan posted:If you say there's no cure, you don't really have any capital to reject austerity since you are basically saying "it's not a good solution, but it's as good as any other solution" No, because any other solution probably has more legitimacy. Austerity has none. Just because the prognosis seems grim does not mean whacko and disproven methods suddenly become legitimate. steinrokkan posted:lol, greeks proving evvery day that they deserve to die in a ditch CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 00:58
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CrazyLoon posted:The basic question one has to ask is this: did austerity do nothing, or did it make things worse (since the general consensus is that it didn't do much good at all). Pretty much this. We already know austerity will do zilch to actually resolve the situation. Doing nothing will do about the same. Might as well do nothing that make it obvious there's nothing to do by doing something that is probably even less effective than nothing.
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Mar 22, 2016 01:04
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punakone posted:Awesome, news saying that a kalashnikov rifle has been found. This will give the EU gun ban new steam to gently caress over legal hobbyists, even though the terrorists in Europe have had pretty much illegal weapons only. ......glad you found your source of displeasure from all this.
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Mar 22, 2016 13:35
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punakone posted:My source of displeasure is that this type of thing happening is even possible in Europe, let alone in the capital of EU. We need to do more back here and abroad that radicalized muslims dont attack people and muslims dont become radicalized. I also dont like that this will be utilized to curb my freedom and restrict my country's ability to conduct self-defense, it must be nice to be rich enough and far away enough from the Russian border to be able to run down your military but Finnish reservists training use mostly self-owned semi-automatic guns and keeping a capable reserve is in the best interest of Finnish defense. Do you have any reason to believe that would happen or are you just nitpicking a national tragedy to bemoan your gun rights, let alone that you think a small militia with self provided weapons would even cause the Russians to flinch. I don't think you are going to get a chance to relive the Winter War.
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Mar 22, 2016 13:49
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punakone posted:Following the EU gun ban process, yes, absolutely this will be used, just like the arrests days before we're used. The whole process has been locked due to opposition by countries like Finland and others, and the compromise suggested by the chairman country Netherlands was to ban something, anything, just decide on what to ban, nothing that is based on facts or actual research, just fear and feelings. Besides that, the Finnish constitutional court has already declared earlier when we had our school shootings which led to tightening of gun laws here, that there is no need to tighten them further. And I am just going to laugh at your remark of a small militia, maybe do some research first, or do you consider an army of 230 000 active reservists plus non-active and second tier conscripts to be small? I do not look for a chance to relive Winter War, it is about deterring it, hth. 230,000 active reservists versus 740k active Russian military and 2 million reservists. Small potatoes dude. And they come armed with actual military weapons, not whatever AK they could scrounge up. But at the end of the day: They are not coming, and here you are whining about your loss of gun rights over a terrorist attack. Its not the time, and its not appropriate.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:14
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punakone posted:You are right, they are not coming, you are almost there understanding my point, why they are not coming, yet you miss, I will give you a hint: it is something to do with the defense forces and their training. But it is alright. And true, in the end bemoaning the gun rights is probably useless, as the ban, even though they will use these attacks, that used illegal guns, as a fuel against legal gun owners, will probably not go through, as it seems most countries are against it and the next EU chair country is also opposing it. HAHA. Got it. Finland is key to holding back the Ruskies. Thank goodness your gun rights stop the hun. Please, stop. You're  'ing over your gun right while other people have lost their lives is petty and disturbing. Give it a couple days before you choose focusing on them finding an AK before you throw your hands in the air and declare all is lost for your precious gun rights.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:25
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punakone posted:I am sorry, I thought it was okay when inside the EU parliament the speakers were telling the MEPs that those EVIL KALASHNIKOVS are used right at this moment, but I guess standing on top of the dead is okay if it is for your team Find another time, jackass. Now is not the time. punakone posted:You still dont understand, it is okay, I see it is rather useless to try to explain it to you either. Hey, smug rear end in a top hat. People died and are dying right now. FIND ANOTHER TIME TO BEMOAN YOUR GUN RIGHTS, rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:32
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punakone posted:Absolutely, just hoping the ban advocates do the same in Brussels. And they should. But here you are.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:37
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punakone posted:Just bringing up the tertiary non-issues they are tackling instead of the real problems at hand, what can we do with radicalized muslims and help muslims not become radicalized. Its not the time. Wait until those politicians actually open their mouth.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:44
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GaussianCopula posted:https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/713696451625422852 Shut the gently caress up, we get it. You're afraid of brown people and all refugees are evil you pretentious rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 29, 2016 15:21
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GaussianCopula posted:Well, as long as they supported Sultan Erdogan against their common enemy (the military) he was on their side but once they did not longer support him taking over Turkey for good in the last election when they campaigned against his planed presidential system he begun to wage open war against them. Given the experiences of the Arab Spring with regard to leaders that are closer to Islam, I prefer the military every single time. And yet you are the guy who proposed sending refugees back to him 
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Mar 30, 2016 16:10
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GaussianCopula posted:I'd would prefer sending refugees back to a more secular Turkey, but you have to play the cards you are dealt.  "Welp, guess we have to send them back to a despotic dictator. Sorry guys"Do you have any clue how hosed up you sound?
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Mar 30, 2016 16:16
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Freezer posted:You're talking to the dude that unironically supported sinking the boats before. Guess despotic dictator beats undersea grave.  Holy poo poo.
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Mar 30, 2016 16:44
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GaussianCopula posted:I don't see how it would, as long as Turkey still has to fulfill all the requirements for visa liberalization, which seems to be the case, there are very few downsides, unless you believe that €6billion earmarked for refugee projects (and never directly given to the Turkish government) is going to make a difference in Erdogan's quest to become Sultan. *cough cough* Dictator who is destroying the civil liberties of his country and starting violent conflict to fan the flames support him. *cough cough*
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Mar 30, 2016 19:41
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GaussianCopula posted:You don't need to be psychopath to understand that it's unpractical to treat every human as if he were your neighbor. Even if your compassion would know no bounds your means are limited. ...and that's why you advocate sinking boats of refugees. Got it. I've got news for you: You're a psychopath.
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Mar 31, 2016 15:15
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GaussianCopula posted:Well, I don't think Judaism has changed all that much, as it never was brutal and warmongering outside of "leave us alone or else JHWH is going to make you regret loving with us". They are also the only Abrahamic religions that does not have a mission to proselytize. No, it wasn't
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Apr 3, 2016 16:46
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