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Sefal posted:I have a meeting with my boss tomorrow. in which i will plan on asking for a raise. 10 or 12 months doesn't make much of a difference. Just make sure your resume doesn't start to consist of 6-12 month jobs for several years.
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Apr 6, 2016 19:16
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Listen to Dik, don't take their word for it because when your annual performance review comes around there'll likely be a bag of excuses and nobody will remember past promises. I made the mistake of giving a range once (before reading the thread) and got lowballed. After that they tried the whole "start low but move up quickly" schtick. For me that was a red flag and while I explained why I would not accept their offer I had some more alarm bells go off.
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Aug 18, 2016 21:51
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Zauper posted:If I'm being recruited by a company but have no strong desire to go (love my job, great non comp stuff like work/life balance, the company recruiting me has a reputation for the opposite), what's the best way for me to maximize the offer? Just let them make the first move. You've already made clear that you're not going to take the job unless it's an insanley good offer. Let them show you what they think you're worth for them. If it's poo poo just laugh and tell them they're not even close. The next offer will show if they're serious or not. You seem to have the perfect batna so make use of that.
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Sep 27, 2016 21:35
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Vegetable posted:
Congratulations on the new job and increased salary! Don't forget to fill in the google doc if you want to.
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Oct 18, 2016 16:30
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Guinness posted:Don't buy into whatever sales pitch they'll give you about why it's "worth it" to take such an undermarket salary for the "amazing opportunity" to work there. Good advice, keep in mind that there a ton of other "amazing opportunities" out there, most of which will be paying a lot more than these guys. Also remember that if they're already lowballing new hires by this amount, it's highly unlikely you'll ever get a decent raise. So you'll have to (threaten to) walk to get one later anyway, so better get paid now. In a few years you will probably have to walk anyway.
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Nov 3, 2016 19:07
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MickeyFinn posted:Thanks for this. It appears the company drops applicants who don't reveal their current salary. Bullet dodged. You don't want to work for douchebags.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:39
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22 Eargesplitten posted:If I do come to an agreement for a higher number, I'm going to talk with the director and make sure there's no hard feelings about the number the recruiters gave changing. I didn't mean to bait and switch, they just completely buried the lede on the salary cut. They being the recruiters, not the director or the client company. I wouldn't talk to the director unless you negotiate with him directly. This is not a bait and switch since they didn't give you the numbers to begin with. And don't forget you already have the job, meaning they think you were the best candidate for the job. You are worth what you're asking for, don't be a wuss and start apologizing for claiming your fair share. You deserve that share.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:23
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CarForumPoster posted:I didn't sit and prey, I took the relationships and personalities (read: non-adversarial) I had with my managers and their managers into consideration and made a decision to trust them and it paid off. This is the definition of sit and prey. You did nothing and hoped for the best. Congrats on the promotion, great that it worked out for you. That said, your advice is anecdotal and shouldn't be presented as the absolute truth and saying other advise is bad. My experience, which is also anecdotal, is that compared to several old coworkers who started and stayed at the company where i started I'm earning a lot more (20-25%) than they are. I've had 3 employers in 15 years while they stayed and hoped for the best. Experience/education is exactly the same, so it's a pretty decent comparison. I also am still in contact with a few coworkers who switched jobs once and they are somewhere between 0-10% behind me in pay (benefits over here are pretty similar everywhere). While I realize this is purely anecdotal as well, I can ignore this while combining it with the general threads opinion. Each case is different though amd what works for most might have not been the best option in other situations (and vice versa). Calling other people stupid and saying their advise is bad however is pretty childish. LochNessMonster fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 16:51
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I'm not sure how to negotiate on that situation so I'll let someone else do that. I would like to advise you to be careful with the 'they can't do it without me, I'm irreplacable' mindset. If that attitude/mindset pisses off someone in the command chain they will make it a personal goal to kick you out and replace you, even if they're off worse. I'm sure you won't phrase it to your employer like this, but don't get too cocky about it.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:34
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If I get 2 consecutive COLA-only pay raises for no good reason I'm gonna start looking for another job. I'm not going to let my income suffer because of some arbitrary judgments from someone who most likely can't tell whether I'm doing my job properly or not. Maybe I've become a cynic because I've encountered too many lovely managers. When it happens the first time I will tell my manager I'm not happy and will remind him about the goals I achieved and the revenue I bring in. If that doesn't change anything I'll contemplate on pushing it or going 1 management level up if I feel I that can help me. I hate being treated unfairly so depending on how well I enjoy the job and how good the market is I might start looking already. That said I hate big companies performance structures. They are hardly ever useful to the company and often are only meant to make your manager look good. That's why I enjoy consulting a lot more these days. As long as I deliver to customers my boss doesn't give a poo poo about what I do. That and my salary is a % of the revenue I bring in. So working more is actually beneficial to me and not just to the company.
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Jun 8, 2017 22:29
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Congrats bud! As another European I can say that the negotiation advice is very usable and not just applicable to The US. The biggest difference I noticed was the in the US you guys usually talk about yearly compensation while over here negotiation is usually based on your monthly salary. Employment advice differs greatly though. In my country there's nothing like at will employment. It'd make one epic lawsuit if a company fired someone on the spot without a good reason (violence/theft/sexual intimidation). I might have to negotiate in the near future again, but I'm not sure if I actually want to switch jobs. It's difficult though, as I could get a 1000-1500 euro's a month raise if I jump ship.
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Jul 12, 2017 19:10
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If they keep you now it's only to get a replacement to let you go out on their terms.
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Jul 13, 2017 23:11
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Kalenn Istarion posted:That can give them a lot of leverage to tell them you have to leave the state. You can communicate the timeline but be careful about why. Sound advice. I'd probably follow up with saying you really liked the interview and look forward to hearing from them again soon. You could ask for a timeline straight away, but general consensus seems to be that you don't ask before at least a week has passed. You could follow up in 1 week saying you would love to work for them but you would like to know when to expect a reaction before pursuing other options. With your timelines you'd be better off if you asked it during the interview, but that doesn't help you now.
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Aug 5, 2017 22:38
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Personally I wouldn't take that large a paycut but seek out jobs in which you can leverage your current skills/industry experience and learn parts of your desired industry. Might take a lot more time finding such a job, but at least you're making 100-120k more while doing so. I had a similar situation a few years back. Was an expert in my field making good money. Wanted to switch to a different field but noticed I'd have to take at least a 50% paycut which wasn't an option with a wife, kids and a mortgage. I wasn't happy with my old job (well basically my manager) so I  and started working for a consultancy firm. After a year I landed a gig in my desired field but specifically for my old skillset. So now I'm learning my desired skills while getting paid for my experience in my old field. And I'm likely getting a job offer to join my current client permanently in a month. Worked out great for me, but not sure if I'm the luckiest sob alive or if this isn't uncommon.
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Aug 7, 2017 22:25
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Blinky2099 posted:
I was in a really technical role too, so it's not impossible. I'll admit I might have been really lucky though. I agree with Jeffrey of YOSPOS though. Don't get hooked onto this specific role and take a 70% paycut, even if you can take a hit like that financially. There are more fish in the sea and I'm sure you'll find a company in the industry you'll like that will see the use of your existing skills without this big of a paycut.
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Aug 17, 2017 18:03
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Blinky2099 posted:Did that, got an additional ~$6k salary on top of an already good offer. Thanks again for the advice, LochNessMonster / No Butt Stuff / my favorite SA thread. That's awesome. An extra 6k just for asking! Now that's easy money. Well done and congrats on the new job!
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Aug 23, 2017 09:18
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The company where I might be interviewing has an unusual tactic. An old coworker started working there a little while ago and apparently if the company contacts you for an interview they basically ask you 2 questions. 1) How much do you make now 2) how much would you like to make? After that they give you an offer slightly below what you like to make as long as it isn't more than 25% of what you make now. It's a company that only wants top of the market specialists and they don't mind paying for talent. So if they want you they basically want to give you a max 25% raise from what you earn now. They don't ask for proof but if they get the feeling you're bullshitting them they won't make you an offer. Due to the that coworker I know their salary structure and know what the maximum is they can offer me. Benefits are equal or better than what I have now, except for the performance bonus. At the new company that's a flat 8%, at my current it can vary between 0-30% but the average throughout the company is 2-5%. My "ok where do I sign" number would be roughly 12.5k higher than what I'm making now. I know what I'm worth and that's more than I'll get at 99 out of 100 places. But that's really the number that I want, below that I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle of switching jobs. My current one is not bad, pays above average and has nice benefits. I'd normally go about this by asking for something like 15k, but that's the max in their payscales. I'm afraid they'll think I'm just asking for the maximum they can offer and counter offer lower than the 12.5k I want. In addition to the payraise they might have to buy me out of some study contracts with my old company but I don't think that'll be an issue. What would be the best way to negotiate the figure I want?
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Sep 3, 2017 20:09
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Thanks for the advise everyone. Their are two things That are a factor which I forgot to tell though. I already do contracting for them so they know me, and I know them. This will most likely not be a interview about being a good fit or doing my job well, they already know the anwser to that because that's why they asked me to do an interview. The 2nd one being that if I ask for more than the 15k raise is that I'll be compensated in the management pay bracket which is great in terms of salary but loses some benefits that would make it a lot harder to accept (no on call or overtime pay). If that were to happen I'd probably want something like a 25k raise which is pretty unrealistic. I think I should just ask for the 15k raise and settle for 12.5k. I don't think they'll undercut on that offer too much and I can always tell them that's the minimum I'd have to get to consider taking the offer. My batna is pretty good, I don't have to get a new job. My current one is pretty good too and I didn't even think about looking for a new job until this company asked me to interview.
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Sep 4, 2017 07:04
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I realize this is the negotiation thread but I'm with EAT FASTER!!!!! on this one. If your boss has no motivation to arrange anything he's not interested in you and probably can't be bothered to do so in the future. Either jump to a different department in your company with the help of the people who recommended you to get a promotion or jump ship. I doubt your boss will do stuff to help you along unless it directly affects his performance review.
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Oct 2, 2017 14:18
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They will “keep working on it” until you leave and/or give you bare minimal raises to keep the value:cost rating as large as possible (in their advantage of course). Start interviewing and get paid.
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Oct 24, 2017 19:09
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a dingus posted:I disclosed to a recruiter what I would like to make, have I screwed myself already? I asked if she was going to disclose this to the potential employer before I answered and she said no. She used this number to figure out what jobs I might be interested in. I realize that these people can hook me up but at the same time I don't trust them. If she’s a good recruiter she’ll use it for what she said and not disclose it to future employers. If she’s a bad recruiter she’ll tell you she didn’t but will do it anyways and you’re 0-1 before you start negotiating. If she’s on Michael Page/Robert Half (not sure which one it was again) level then she’ll call your current employer and tell them you’re looking for another job while showing your boss several resumes of people who will do your current job for less money than you’re doing it for now. Bottom line: never tell people what you (want) to make unless you know the recruiter very well and are 200% positive he/she will not gently caress you over for a quick buck.
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Nov 5, 2017 20:21
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Fhqwhgads posted:Figured as much, we'll just see what happens. Get an offer at a different firm and tell them to give you the number you want or you’re out. I’ve worked at several banks and have seen plenty of internal moves. The only way you’re getting a promotion is if a) your new boss really likes to keep you happy (read can’t afford to lose you right now), b) you get a promotion/different role or c) you effectively threaten them to leave (which may see you getting replaced as soon as they have trained your succesor). If you think you can get paid more, make it happen. They’re not gonna give you payraise for nothing.
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Nov 14, 2017 20:27
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poe meater posted:How do you guys negotiate with your current employer in regards to a pay increase about a fairly unique position where it's hard to compare? I would say I'm almost close to indispensable but really who knows. In general it’s fairly tough to negotiate in these kind of positions since you don’t really have leverage. Depending on how well you get along with your manager you could try to convince him you deserve a raise based on performance goals and/or the things you achieved that benefits the company more than if you’d just do what’s expected. You’re at their mercy though because you’re already doing that job for your current paycheck, so you need to really explain why they should suddenly start paying you more for doing the same job. The only leverage you have is leaving and mentioning that may have them start thinking about how to replace you.
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Nov 25, 2017 07:51
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It’s always awesome to read results like this. With such an increase in pay I guess a certain amount of bragging is justified 
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Dec 2, 2017 14:17
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Grump posted:Tried negotiating today and got nothing. I'm actually pretty suprised how poorly it went. Sounds like they’re happy to keep you on the books for your current pay and either don’t think you’ll leave or don’t care if you do. Good luck with the job search! Just look back at these 2 attempts as practise for negotiation i the future!
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Dec 27, 2017 21:30
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Eric the Mauve posted:There are exceptions to everything, but it's very likely that one way or another you'll be gone from that company within six months. That's just what happens when there are Great advice. I was just part of a merger that turned out to be a takeover. As a senior engineer they really wanted to keep me on board (or at least they said so). Unfortunately they didn’t show that in any shape or form. I completed the year there to see if anything would change. Nothing happened that influenced my doubts about my role in the new company so I decided to look for something different. Since you have job security, you have a pretty good batna. If you don’t like a company after the interviews, you just stay put until you find one you do.
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Mar 5, 2018 17:54
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Tnuctip posted:Update: tried to get hopeful new employer to throw their range out first, they doubled down and told my recruiter you tell us, finally caved and my recruiter passed on my range (90-110k). Kinda dumb because i told potential boss this range on the phone, and i guess he didnt tell hr? Ill have an offer next week, will find out then. There’s nothing wrong with telling them you’re also talking with another firm and you need a week to compare offers. Maybe you’ll get an offer above the range you gave company 1 and tell them you need a better offer.
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Apr 7, 2018 16:36
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:I plan to schedule a face to face meeting with my division director to find out what their needs are going forward and how my unique set of skills might help to solve their problems. With that positive leverage in hand, I intend to make my case. I wish I could give you some advice but you already know what the deal is. Unless you’re willing to walk (which you, understandably, are not) you have no real leverage. I wouldn’t ‘threathen’ them with scenarios which may or may not happen if you decide to leave, unless you are prepared to walk. You can speak up and tell them what you’d like but if they say no then that’s that. If the director you agreed your raise with still works for your company you could ask him to talk to your current manager and see if he’s willing to honor that agreement. Otherwise let it be a lesson to get everything in writing. You just cannot trust (new) people to keep other peoples promises. Hell, you can’t even trust people to keep their own promises when they’re not in writing.
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Apr 10, 2018 20:13
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:I mean fine in the sense that it got a handshake agreement to do that, except not fine in that I didn't get it in writing. Positive leverage got me a raise to direct this project, for example. The division wanted me to do x, I wanted y dollars, congratulations a successful negotiation, contract signed, raise agreed to. That’s not leverage, that is asking for a favor and getting it because the company feels like it.
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Apr 10, 2018 21:28
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:The additional responsibilities of that role were 100% not specified in my hiring contract, so I was asked (and therefore given an incentive) to take on the assignment. That's positive leverage. Yet you are underpaid working for a company which doesn’t honor your agreement with your previous boss. They are giving you the least amount of money which makes you stay. And it’s working. Don’t kid yourself, you’re getting played.
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Apr 10, 2018 21:52
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I hope it works out for you and the company keeps your best interests in mind too. Perhaps I’m too cynical about this subject.
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Apr 10, 2018 22:55
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Dik Hz posted:This company is trying to bullshit you and take $20k/year from your potential earnings. This. Walk away and don’t be afraid to call them out on that bs. In the current job market any IT company should be glad you are considering to start working for them. The fact that they are majorly lowballing you in an insanely difficult market (as well As you moving to private sector) says everything about their business attitude and probably culture as well. You’re out of your mind if you start working for these jackasses. They will most likely try to screw you over at every possible chance to make more money. I had a similar experience once while interviewing with a consultancy company. First round was with one of the owners, he really liked my skills wanted me on board. Second round was with a technical teamlead who’d be my manager. From the first minute he starts downplaying (and even shittalking) everything on my CV saying my skills, experience and certs don’t really mean anything and that they’d have to heavily invest in training me. That’s why they could only pay me 15-20% below my current salary. I told him they asked me to come interview with them and that I was surprised they invited me if they knew that I didn’t match their requirements. I thanked him for his time and left, leaving him quite surprised. The next 3 weeks I recieved multiple calls a day from their CEO almost begging me to join their company. Saying I could get a different teamlead, didn’t have to do the suggested training and could pick any training I’d like. Offered me to pay 20-30% above my (then) pay. Basically anything they previously didn’t wamt to offer was now up for grabs. It gave me the feeling that they weren’t honest and only interested in making money off of me. I joined a different company with the same payraise they offered in the end (except it was their first offer). Bottomline: trust your gut. If you get a lovely feeling from their offer, it’s probably a lovely offer. Don’t be afraid to interview at 10 companies before taking an offer. YOU need to be happy with the offer/company/culture. Don’t compromise and get stuck in a job you don’t fully like.
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Aug 20, 2018 11:56
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NNick posted:The work would be more stressful, I'd have people under me, and there are more menial responsibilities I'm not too thrilled about doing. I also would not have the same job security I have here and I don't have any parents or family fallback on should I lose my job. If you want 85k, ask for 95-100k. They’ll most likely counter offer. That said, the job security you think you have now (most likely) means nothing. The moment it becomes more viable to fire you than it is to keep you around, you’ll be out. Do not get lulled into a false sense of security if that keeps you away from 20-35k a year! Put the extra cash into your bank account as an emergency fund for the first half year and you’ve built your own financial safety net. After that start enjoying the shitload of cash you earned just by asking for it or taking a new job.
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Oct 15, 2018 22:53
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You were looking for 70-80s and they can only offer high 60s. Say you can meet in the middle and will accept 69.999,99. Anything below that anwser with no. Also, why the hell did you give them your current salary? Edit: if this was your first interview you can be pretty sure you’ll be able to get similar (and better) offers. Don’t let them lowball you. Start walking away and see if they backpaddle. LochNessMonster fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Oct 27, 2018 |
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Oct 27, 2018 18:50
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teardrop posted:
Yeah, take it to email so you don’t get pressured into anwsering questions you don’t want to. It also gives you time to think about what you want and how to best write down your response.
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Oct 28, 2018 19:15
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Who cares about policy if your signed contract states you have 80 hours of PTO. If they say “oops our bad, it’s 40 hours” you get to renegotiate other things (like compensation) as well. If they push it, start searching for a new job straight away.
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Nov 19, 2018 10:55
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Sock The Great posted:This could be the wrong thread, but since PTO keeps coming up I think this question is relevant. IANAL but if it doesn’t state this in your contract / HR documents, they probably aren’t allowed to do so. If you want to be sure, check with a lawyer. Where I live it’s pretty common to have contracts stating that company can appoint up to x (usually 3) mandatory days off that come from the employees leave balance. But we also get 21 days PTO (sick leave not included) by law and most companies give 23-28 days of PTO. With that many days hardly anyone makes a problem out of it and it’s usually days between bank holidays and the weekend so you get a mini vacation.
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Nov 19, 2018 13:22
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Sock The Great posted:We also have a generous PTO offering (25 vacation + 5 sick), so I'm trying not to be too uptight about this aside from it's a complete change in the protocol vs. other years. I can imagine that’s a strange surprise if they come up with this stuff out of the blue. You can always ask your manager to clarify this change in policy and if it’s a one time thing or if they’re planning to do this more often.
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Nov 19, 2018 16:35
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Dodged a bullet. If they are playing hardball when trying to attract people, they’re probably even shittier when trying to retain them. You just saved yourself from no raises ever while working for these assholes.
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Feb 16, 2019 22:09
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Jordan7hm posted:There is no salary negotiation. There is you asking for a favour and them choosing to grant it, or not. This is 100% true, besides asking you can only threaten to leave. It may get you a raise but most likely it’ll trigger your boss to finding a replacement since you are “untrustworthy”.
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Mar 22, 2019 07:01
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