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Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




There's a reason I can't in good conscience consider myself a Catholic anymore.

The Church got up to some serious poo poo, and god knows how much of it is still going on behind the scenes now.

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Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Schizotek posted:

It's not just Catholic clergy. Basically any profession where people have access to kids is gonna have pedophiles. Teachers, clergy of all faiths, coaches. Family members. And if they're seen as a community leader people will make excuses for it. The scandal with the Catholic Church was the overarching institutions response to the issue being to hide the perpetrator and then shuffle them off somewhere else to do the same thing.

Not to mention the evidence that they've been doing just that for at least 50 years.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Remember that suicide is still a mortal sin in most if not all of their doctrines, so by attempting to do so these kids are proving that they are wicked.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Hey, it's not as bad as the ones that used to take kids out to Barbados and other Carribean and South American countries so they wouldn't be able to go anywhere if they tried to run. Exodus International was terrifying.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Nostalgia4Infinity posted:

That being said, nothing's going to happen. If we couldn't do anything after a bunch of innocent kids were murdered during school then we're certainly not going to do anything for a bunch of folks who "choose" to live a sinful lifestyle getting shot up at a sin den nightclub.

:smith:

It's easy to want it as a knee jerk reaction, but the push always tapers off, and Congress is hostile to the idea. Given the SCOTUS precedent in the last few years, the only thing that's going to make sweeping gun control happen is a full on repeal of the 2nd, and you couldn't right this minute get 2/3 of Congress to agree to call the fire department if the statehouse were on fire at that moment, much less get 3/4 of the States to ratify.

It sucks that we can't even really have a rational conversation about it. I mean, I'm pretty blatantly pro-2nd Amendment, and don't see any way short of mass confiscation that would have kept a guy who could pass the background checks to work as an armed guard for a federal contractor from obtaining a weapon, but there's got to be some way we can better prevent this kind of thing.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jun 13, 2016

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Teddybear posted:

Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter has ordered that the ban on transgender military personnel be lifted immediately.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/us/transgender-military.html

Well, that's one way to make an official statement on the whole bathroom law bullshit without actually outright swinging at it.

Good on 'em, though.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




I mean, it is a little odd because usually the unisex bathrooms are single and not multiple stalls, but still.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Fun update on North Carolina this morning, the NCAA has pulled all championship games for 2016 and 2017 out of the state, save those that mandate an in-state team gets home field advantage.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/ncaa-relocate-championships-north-carolina-2016-17

quote:

The board stressed that the dynamic in North Carolina is different from that of other states because of at least four specific factors:

North Carolina laws invalidate any local law that treats sexual orientation as a protected class or has a purpose to prevent discrimination against lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender individuals.
North Carolina has the only statewide law that makes it unlawful to use a restroom different from the gender on one’s birth certificate, regardless of gender identity.
North Carolina law provides legal protections for government officials to refuse services to the LGBT community.
Five states plus numerous cities prohibit travel to North Carolina for public employees and representatives of public institutions, which could include student-athletes and campus athletics staff. These states are New York, Minnesota, Washington, Vermont and Connecticut.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




fishmech posted:

The vast majority of millennials are already out of college. Only the very youngest are still in high school or college. So most millenials don't need to care about free college that much.

If anything the biggest voting group that would like free college would be gen xers and boomers who are just about to or are int he middle of putting their kids through college.

Given the sloppy loving definition of 'millenials', some of them have kids getting ready for college.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.





This shouldn't surprise you, his VP has been an avid conversion therapy advocate.

Mike Pence For Congress 2000 posted:

• Congress should oppose any effort to put gay and lesbian relationships on an equal legal status with heterosexual marriage.

• Congress should oppose any effort to recognize homosexual’s as a "discreet and insular minority" entitled to the protection of anti-discrimination laws similar to those extended to women and ethnic minorities.

• Congress should support the reauthorization of the Ryan White Care Act only after completion of an audit to ensure that federal dollars were no longer being given to organizations that celebrate and encourage the types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus. Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior.


• In addition to defense spending, Congress should lead a national debate on reforming the military by:

• (1) bringing an end to the era of using American military power in humanitarian causes and return to a disciplined traditional view of the use of American military power only where a "vital national interest" is at stake. Vital national interests would be include protecting the territorial integrity of the United States, it’s treaty allies or a region of strategic significance to the national security.

• (2) bringing an end to gender mixed basic training and gender mixed housing on military bases.

• (3) bringing an end to assigning women to combat support units, combatant ships and pilot billets that ultimately result in women becoming involved in combat. While women have always made an important contribution to national security, we must resist liberal impulse to use the military to advance the interest of women in civilian culture at the expense of military readiness and effectiveness. America must not become the only nation in the world to use women in combat positions.

• (4) bringing an end to the "don’t ask/don’t tell" policy of permitting homosexuals to serve in the armed forces. Homosexuality is incompatible with military service because the presence of homosexuals in the ranks weakens unit cohesion.



• The unborn child has a fundamental right to life which cannot be infringed. Roe vs.. Wade was legally poorly conceived and morally wrong and should be overturned. In support of this cause, the 107th Congress should:

• endorse legislation that makes clear that the 14th Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children

• support the appointment of judges by the Executive branch who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of human life.

Far as I'm aware, he's never backed down on most of this.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Next time someone says women are useless in combat, introduce them to Lyudmila Pavlichenko.

Soviet sniper on the Eastern Front. 309 confirmed kills. One of the deadliest and most effective women in recorded history.

With Elenaor Roosevelt's help, also one of the strongest agitators to get the US into the European theater.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Oct 9, 2016

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




MaxxBot posted:

People aren't going to suddenly start hating gays because Trump won, especially since Trump never even says anything bad about gays. Things are going to suck in the short term but there's no way the long trend towards LGBT acceptance is going to suddenly reverse itself.

People don't have to start. There's already a vocal minority who just had that hate validated by the highest offices in the country, and a literal monster of a man is one 70 year old Cheeto having a heart attack away from the Presidency.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




The Dark One posted:

This woman is scum.

100%

Luckily it looks like the law is absolutely not on her side.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




there wolf posted:

Parental rights fall under the due-process clause of the 14th. Shittiest mom of the year is claiming that the court never informed her when her child applied for emancipation, so she had no opportunity to challenge the loss of her parental rights, and therefor the lack of due process means they should still be intact. So daughter, using the current law in Minnesota that grants emancipated minors control over their own medical decisions, is violating her mother's parental rights by getting medical care her mom hasn't signed off on.

And this is all being backed by an anti-abortion group, because the law gives cover to minors seeking abortions without parental consent. Looking forward to so Minnesota judge smacking this poo poo sandwich down with the fury of an angry god.

If I'm reading the article right, the child never -had- to apply, Minnesota law isn't very definite, but seems to agree that living on their own with no parental attempts to get them to return home after running away or being kicked out is sufficient.

http://www.lawhelpmn.org/files/1765CC5E-1EC9-4FC4-65EC-957272D8A04E/attachments/142FAC1B-D276-4E40-97D4-9662A7B0DE56/y-12-emancipation.pdf

It is, of course, going to be woefully expensive to prove, and all because a 17 year old is transistioning and the parent who abandoned them wants to put the brakes on. Case is, more than likely from what I can tell as a layperson, going to be dismissed anyway because by the time it comes to court the daughter will be of age and the mother's requests will be without merit.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Nov 18, 2016

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




there wolf posted:

You don't need a judge to declare it or something like that? Learn something new everyday.

Varies heavily by state, naturally.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




In other relevant news :

http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/first-amendment-defense-act-would-be-devastating-lgbtq-americans-n698416

Article posted:

Earlier this month, Senator Ted Cruz of Texas and Senator Mike Lee of Utah, through his spokesperson, told Buzzfeed they plan to reintroduce an embattled bill that barely gained a House hearing in 2015. But this time around, they said, the First Amendment Defense Act (FADA) was likely to succeed due to a Republican-controlled House and the backing of President-elect Donald Trump.

Earlier this month, Senator Ted Cruz of Texas and Senator Mike Lee of Utah, through his spokesperson, told Buzzfeed they plan to reintroduce an embattled bill that barely gained a House hearing in 2015. But this time around, they said, the First Amendment Defense Act (FADA) was likely to succeed due to a Republican-controlled House and the backing of President-elect Donald Trump.

Image: U.S. President-elect Donald Trump arrives to speak during a USA Thank You Tour event at Giant Center in Hershey, Pennsylvania
U.S. President-elect Donald Trump arrives to speak during a USA Thank You Tour event at Giant Center in Hershey, Pennsylvania, U.S., December 15, 2016. Lucas Jackson / Reuters
FADA would prohibit the federal government from taking "discriminatory action" against any business or person that discriminates against LGBTQ people. The act distinctly aims to protect the right of all entities to refuse service to LGBTQ people based on two sets of beliefs: "(1) marriage is or should be recognized as the union of one man and one woman, or (2) sexual relations are properly reserved to such a marriage."

Ironically, the language of the bill positions the right to discriminate against one class of Americans as a "first amendment" right, and bans the government from taking any form of action to curb such discrimination—including withholding federal funds from institutions that discriminate. FADA allows allows individuals and businesses to sue the federal government for interfering in their right to discriminate against LGBTQ people and would mandate the Attorney General defend the businesses.

On December 9, Sen. Lee's spokesperson, Conn Carroll, told Buzzfeed the election of Trump had cleared a path for the passage of FADA.

"Hopefully November's results will give us the momentum we need to get this done next year," Carroll said. "We do plan to reintroduce FADA next Congress and we welcome Trump's positive words about the bill."

Looks like the redefining discrimination to not apply to gays and slut-shaming bill is coming back!

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Badger of Basra posted:

How do you propose that the opponents repeal a law when they aren't a majority in either chamber of the legislature

Normally, I'd say via political horse-trading, but the NC GOP already just proved they can't be trusted to bargain in good faith ever again. :v:

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




mandatory lesbian posted:

why would that be tho, like doesn't this indicate its separate from sexuality?

Might have something to do with not being straight enough for the straights, and getting a ton of 'oh, you're just in denial, come back when you're all the way out of the closet' from the other side.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




OwlFancier posted:

What is a political issue if not a societal problem though? All things are societal problems and we use politics to solve them because the apparatus of the state is the strongest single force over society.

A systemic lack of education would appear to be a manifestly political issue because the state has great control over systemic education.

To put it bluntly as a political issue, we need to make evidence-based sexual education mandatory on a national level both for public health reasons as it is necessary that teenagers actually be taught prevention for STDs and unwanted pregnancies, but also because there needs to be an acknowledgement that there are more sexual identities possible than one.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Gorilla Salad posted:

So the question is whether the GOP is vindictive enough to cut off their own nose to spite their face?

Did you see their very, very first act upon convening? You know, the attempt to flatline their own ethics watchdogs?

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Taitale posted:

First of all it's clinically significant distress or impairment so that binary state you talk about doesn't exist. While there are definitely potential issues around what constitutes clinical distress the fact that the DSM recognises that lack of access to medical interventions can cause that level of distress it doesn't seem the bar is set very high. The biggest group who I think would have an issue with the current diagnosis are people who don't seek all the stereotypical medical interventions/have a non-binary identity and get stuck with doctors who decide that it means they aren't trans enough for any treatment at all. Even then that is more a problem with outdated thinking than the diagnosis itself.

Yeah, Vindicator's failing the Psych 101 test here and seeing the existence of symptoms as the existence of the entire disorder. I say Psych 101 because this is exactly what almost everyone who ever takes any abnormal psych courses does before they learn to consider symptoms in the context of how they affect the patient. Many people express symptoms and tendencies that are in congruence with a possible diagnosis based on the DSM's criteria. However, if those symptoms are not causing them distress or impairment, they are not diagnosed as disorders, but normal quirks of the function of human consciousness.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Vindicator posted:

Like I said, try to find a surgeon willing to perform GRS based on a 'normal quirk of the function of human consciousness.'

You're still not getting it. If dysphoria did not rise to the level of distress or impairment, then a patient would have no reason to seek GRS.

To give an analogy, cross dressing can be seen as a coping mechanism and symptom of gender dysphoria, however not all cross dressers are trans.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Vindicator posted:

I'm getting it, believe me. Your position is that trans folks who pursue GRS are distressed/impaired to such an extent that they can be diagnosed as mentally ill. Do you think that all trans folks who pursue gender confirmation surgeries are mentally ill? Do you think that trans folks whose dysphoria does not rise to the level of significant distress or impairment should be barred from pursuing medical transition options, including surgery? I have deep concerns about labelling all trans folks with the intention of undergoing gender confirmation surgeries as mentally ill. I mean, you can't conceive of any other possible motivations a trans person might wish to undergo confirmation surgeries?

Personal example again - I intend to pursue GRS. Does my intention to do so indicate that I am mentally ill, because 'the only people who would want to undergo such a surgery must have distress or impairment sufficient to meet a diagnosis of gender dysphoria?'

My standpoint is that people suffering significant distress and/or impairment are suffering from mental illness, yes. The same as are those suffering depression, anxiety, or PTSD issues, to name the most common issues currently in the wild.

De-stigmatization of mental illness and treating it like any other medical condition that requires treatment is the goal here, not trying to generate new euphemisms that do not accurately reflect the problem and how it can be approached to better the patient's life. Mental illness is, for the vast majority of cases, no more the fault of the person suffering it than Type 1 diabetes would be.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




What's your better option? Without a viable diagnosis, insurance companies are going to continue to find ways to deny treatment.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




What exactly is gained by doing so? It seems to me that you're just creating unclear definitions and generating a new edge case for the sake of avoiding a label.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Vindicator posted:

I'm wondering how many arguments there would have been, telling queers back in 1972 not to worry about their mental illness diagnosis, because there's nothing to be ashamed of when the doctor tells you your brain doesn't work right because you don't conform to heteronormative societal standards. But the problem is that it isn't 'disordered thinking' in the first place.

If this is, as people in this thread have stated, a natural element of the human condition, then why are we tacitly accepting that in order to validate our access treatment, we must self-identify as mentally disordered? Now, look, you can make the argument that gender dysphoria represents divorcing the distress from the nonconformity with assigned gender, but there are steps further that we can advocate for. Why are stress, trauma, anxiety, and depression all fundamentally distinguishable when they are the product of one's gender nonconformity, rather than of other stressors? Why aren't we talking about how we develop treatment pathways that require the informed consent of the patient, rather than gating treatment behind a diagnosis of mental impairment? Isn't it possible that a mental health professional can make a statement to the effect of "Upon consultation with the patient, we have mutually recognized that this treatment will significantly improve the patient's quality of life", without having to add "this patient is mentally ill" in order to justify such a statement?

I think what I'm running up against is the idea that a trans person can't express a conscious choice to alter their body in a manner that conforms more with their personal sense of self, without also being required to show evidence of significant distress/impairment with the physical configuration of their body. Obviously people who have neither exist, and clearly we have people who have both. But what about one or the other? Can't someone experience sufficient distress in order to meet a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, yet not desire surgical transition for any number of reasons? Can't someone not experience that distress and STILL express a desire for surgical transition for any number of reasons? Aren't those all conceivable possibilities? Informed consent as a prerequisite for HRT is definitely more accepted than it has been in the past. Is the concept of an informed consent model for surgical treatments not also justifiable, particularly when the goal is to avoid the patient developing the distress that would validate the treatment after the fact?

I at least am tacitly accepting that as a calculated policy position. The primary author of policy for the incoming administration is, due to the President's lack of interest and general unfitness, going to be Mike Pence. Mike Pence is a hardline believer in conversion therapy who despises all things LGBT. The process of gutting the ACA is already well under way.

In this political climate, maintaining gender dysphoria as a diagnosis and SRS among the effective treatments for it is vital. The biggest gift you could possibly give Pence and insurance companies is being able to classify gender as a personally held choice and declare all treatments to change it as elective and cosmetic and therefore not required to be covered by insurers.

Is that the most feel-good of answers? gently caress no, but it's more likely to have positive results than 'Oh, you wanna be a ~lady~? Hope you have a couple hundred grand saved up, otherwise go gently caress yourself.'

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Edit : You know what? Nobody is going to have a positive result from continuing this argument.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jan 14, 2017

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




That is a much calmer and more reasonable way of saying what I wanted to. Props, Muffin.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




DeadlyMuffin posted:

Is this actually true? I don't think I could get treatment without some sort of diagnosis, even paying cash.

You'd have to test it, but I'm fairly sure there's a doctor out there willing to do pretty much anything you want, cosmetically, so long as you can convince them you're of sound mind or deep enough pockets. Otherwise people like Stalking Cat couldn't exist. Most medical professionals would have deep ethical concerns that you aren't actually harming yourself, though.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jan 14, 2017

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Taitale posted:

Chelsea Manning is getting her sentence commuted.

This is good. It isn't the pardon I would have liked to see, but it recognizes that her sentencing was woefully over-reaching to try and make an example for anyone else tempted to leak documents.

Too bad years in solitary as well as untreated gender issues because the military 'didn't know how' to treat them are going to mean she's got a long road to being any kind of productive member of society ever again. Solitary confinement really messes with people.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Taitale posted:

That's because it is torture. Call it what it is.

You'll not get any objection from me there.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Tias posted:

Pertinent to the case, I think, is that the court admitted the leaks did not endanger any military personnel - how the hell can you be locked away half your life for embarassing the military?

Don't forget that the prosecution was still pushing all the way into the trial for a conviction on 'aiding the enemy' which carries a possible death sentence, despite her willingness to enter a guilty plea. Oh, and outright made up "wantonly causing to be published on the internet intelligence belonging to the US government, having knowledge that intelligence published on the internet is accessible to the enemy" as a new offense to charge her with.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Shukaro posted:

Bi people are actually insatiable lust demons in human skin

I feel like I missed this memo somewhere. Are there sweet demonic powers I could have been taking advantage of this whole time?

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Easy Salmon Recipe posted:

+1 Initiative, according to the last splatbook I read.

Hrm. I should reroll as an Elf for that sweet Dex bonus. :smith:

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Eimi posted:

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck :stonk:

Where are you quoting that from? Google's having no luck, and I don't want to lose my poo poo without attribution.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




fishmech posted:

Pistols are mainly good for committing suicide, they're pretty useless for any common self-defense scenario. Nobody should buy one for that purpose and it's real bad advice.

Shut up fishmech. You know as little about firearms as you know about anything else.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




No worries.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Yup. It's actually making me wish I could GTFO, because the only way to make this bullshit stop that I've come up with so far is to re-run Sherman's March to the Sea, but starting at the Texas border this time and making sure to burn everything.

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Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




cis autodrag posted:

This is what you're not getting. Gay white men allow themselves to be grouped into the same minority group as trans people, lesbians, etc when it suits their needs, but are able to distance themselves from that group when it advantages them. They get to have it both ways and that's hosed up.

What you're advocating, essentially, is just to say that gay white men no longer get to place themselves under the larger LGBTQ umbrella. What we're saying is that gay white men have a habit of picking their queer advocacy issues a la carte, which other subsections of the queer umbrella can't do as easily.

Is it intentional or just ironic that you've just used the primary argument biphobic people everywhere use to try and push bi folks out of queer spaces?

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