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How are guns? I'm thinking about going spears but leveling Skill for good gun damage is tempting. I did really enjoy the bow last time.
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Aug 24, 2016 03:07
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Living Weapon feels stronger than before. Maybe I didn't use it enough, but it absolutely tore apart the first few oni and those guys gave me a lot of trouble in the Alpha. Overall though I feel like the combat is less fluid. I can't quite put my finger on why, but melee combat feels... jerkier, maybe? I dunno.
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Aug 24, 2016 03:54
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Snak posted:I feel like attacks take more stamina. The only difference I could detect in the basic controls is the bow aiming/shooting, which I hate, but I'm also hesitant to switch to the Soulslike controls (for no good reason). lets hang out posted:Previously you could ki pulse with triangle attacks in high stance which was much more aggressive than what you get now. All the change amounts to is making boss fights take longer. Low stance feels pretty good on spears, but I haven't spent much time with katanas yet in the beta. On spears, it's good for very long combos that can stunlock unarmored enemies, or hitting the crawling zombie guys, or just when you need your attacks to be super fast so you can dodge out at any moment. I've heard katanas are just overall worse than the Alpha, though. Spears feel fine at least.
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Aug 24, 2016 14:47
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Really excited for that kusarigama reveal, that looks fun as hell. I really have no idea what weapon I'm going to focus on. Swords seem reliable, kusarigama seem really fun, and I know spears are fun from the demos. And do I want to pair that with onmyou magic or pumping up my spirit so I can do more awesome totem spirit stuff? Harrow fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 05:23
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So, assuming things didn't change a ton from the last demo: are the Magic and Spirit stats worth investing in? The only onmyou magic I really played with was weapon buffs, which were nice but didn't seem to make too huge of a difference. And while I really enjoy playing around with the different guardian spirit things, I didn't invest enough in Spirit to find out if the rewards you get for that are worth it. Did anyone else dig further into that? I'm tempted to go spears/spirit for my first build, assuming there aren't enough levels/points to spread around to multiple weapon stats.Real hurthling! posted:just when you thought it was dead, zelda gonna bring it back Somehow I suspect it'll be fine in Zelda, if only because you don't really have a build in Zelda like you do in Nioh or Souls. If your sword breaks in Zelda, you don't need to hope you have another sword because all your stats and skills are geared towards swords--instead, you just use whatever the latest enemy dropped. That's sort of what I've always wanted from a durability system in an action RPG anyway: either go full scavenger or don't have durability at all.
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Jan 19, 2017 15:00
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Jack-Off Lantern posted:I've bought the loving thing now, whatever. Timed Demos outside of Network Stress Test Purposes are still stupid. The demos are timed because they also have network features--both of the previous ones did, anyway. I suppose they could've stuck around and just turned off the network features, but I think a large part of it was to test how well those worked, too. The previous two demos were also pretty long, like two weeks each if I remember correctly. This one's brevity is a big change and it's probably only so short because the game's coming out really soon.
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Jan 19, 2017 15:30
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Spuckuk posted:I barely got a chance to try the previous demos, how does the difficulty stack up compared to DS3 or Bloodborne? I found it notably harder than DS3 and Bloodborne, but I agree with Deified Data that I think it was more that it took me some time to adjust to the control scheme and the different gameplay style. It looks like a Souls clone and definitely has some very Souls elements (leveling up stats directly, dropping your souls/amrita when you die and having to go reclaim it, checkpoints that respawn enemies when you use them), but its actual combat is very different, which is why I'm really excited for this. It's more Souls-inspired than Souls clone, unlike Lords of the Fallen. One thing is that I had to get into a Witcher 2/3 mindset more than a Bloodborne mindset with it, because you take crazy damage if you get hit in the back (and so do enemies), even though it's not a Souls-style backstab mechanic. An enemy that can knock off 10% of your life in one hit from the front can take off like 40% from the back, so you really need to make sure you don't get flanked or you will die very, very quickly. That got me owned over and over again in the first demo until I realized what I needed to do, and then I started having a grand old time. Bows are also significantly more powerful than they are in the Souls games--lots of human enemies can be one-shot with a headshot and it's definitely a good idea to do that if you can to thin out some groups. It definitely punishes mistakes much more immediately than Souls/Bloodborne do, I think. Harrow fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 15:39
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DatonKallandor posted:I'm not sure if we know if the guardian spirit level up mechanic is going to be in the new demo, because that is probably going to be a huge buff to guardian spirit (and probably also magic?) builds. The post-caves spirit was also pretty amazing even at level 1 in the previous build (you could do a really absurd health-recovery build with it), so there is hope for magic and ninja not being bad. I think the guardian spirit system interests me more than magic and ninjutsu, so I hope there's a lot of fun things to do with it that makes leveling Spirit worth it. DatonKallandor posted:Harder but fairer. Enemies don't cheat by having infinite stamina and you can see their stamina bar. You're about as tough as they are but you get a stamina refill mechanic enemies don't have access to. You've also got a Devil Trigger mechanic most enemies don't get. A note on "fairer"--it's not so much that the Souls games cheat or something, just that enemies play by a different set of rules than you do. Those rules are understandable and predictable, though, and are designed to present a fair challenge to the player, even if the player is technically playing by a different set of rules. Nioh, on the other hand, is more transparently fair, specifically because enemies always have a visible stamina bar and are punished just as severely as the player is for running out. I'd argue it's not necessarily more fair than the Souls games, but it's definitely more about putting you against enemies on even footing (except when yokai are involved, of course).
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Jan 19, 2017 17:21
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Is there any indication yet of how many stats one can reasonably expect to be able to level up? Like if I wanted to be good at spears, guns, and guardian spirit stuff, am I going to be spreading myself too thin, or is there just no real way to know yet?
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Jan 20, 2017 02:23
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Phantasium posted:I definitely feel like from the alpha to the beta that the amrita requirements per level jumped up. Oh yeah, they definitely did. Stats poured in during the first public demo and were a lot more limited in the second one. I actually wish this game didn't have the Souls-style stat system. I want to be a multi-weapon master but also not have to totally disregard my guardian spirits, all of whom are cool and good and my friends 
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Jan 20, 2017 05:49
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Snak posted:Not only do different weapons scale with different things, but samurai points and the combos they unlock are partially decoupled from stats. If you are going Onmyo Magic or Spirit Guardian, you're still going to use weapons, but your damage isn't going to be derived from the stat the weapon normally scales with. Instead, you'll be getting damage from the Onmyo Magic applied to your weapon, or the living weapon of your Spirit Guardian. So you can still use a big variety of weapons even in a Magic or Spirit build. Your playstyle is just going to be different because you're going to have to work with different resource management systems to optimize your damage. Hm, unless you can supercharge how quickly your Spirit Guardian's living weapon charges up I don't know if I can go with a Spirit-heavy build--I'd hate to have the majority of my damage tied up in the equivalent of Devil Trigger mode, where I suck most of the time but at least I get to kick rear end even harder when I turn on Kick Some rear end mode. Zaphod42 posted:Thing is; there's no pvp at launch. So... don't worry about it? It'll be like souls. If you spread your points "too thin" you can just get more levels. I guess maybe you're asking if there's a level cap? Yeah, I guess I meant like: "How many things can I expect to be good at without having to grind?" more than anything. If it's anything like Souls, I'm guessing it's going to be, you can expect to either: a) Be ahead of the curve at one thing but not be good at anything else b) Stay on-curve with two things c) Be behind the curve (unless you grind) with three or more things Belzac posted:You can definitely get weapons with high stat scaling from Magic and Spirit (and ninjitsu?). It uses a system very similar to Arcane scaling in Bloodborne. As in, sometimes you can find weapons from a category that normally scale well with Strength or Body or something but they scale with Magic or Spirit instead? (I'm assuming there's no "convert your weapon's damage type/scaling" system like Bloodborne's blood gems.) Harrow fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jan 20, 2017 |
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Jan 20, 2017 15:19
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The fact that Heart is the only stat that increases Ki, while also being the main scaling stat for most katanas, seems to suggest that they want katanas to be a reliable fallback weapon for every build, at least. I sort of doubt that it's a good idea to totally neglect increasing your maximum Ki, right?
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Jan 20, 2017 15:25
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Ha, I just realized Heart scales bows, too. So basically, unless there's a build that can get by with base Ki, you're probably always going to have one fallback melee weapon (katanas) and one fallback ranged weapon (bows). That's kinda neat. Maybe I'll do a Body + Heart + Spirit build, then. Guns seem cool but I bet they're going to be strong enough (at least sniping dudes with headshot damage to thin out a group) even without heavy investment in the Skill stat, and if they aren't, well, I'll have bows. Seems like a well-rounded stat spread overall. I'll probably need at least some Strength to equip certain weapons, but everyone probably needs some of that, and maybe a little bit of Stamina depending on how much affects equip load, but again, everyone probably needs a little of that.
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Jan 20, 2017 16:01
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Lakbay posted:People saying the chain sickle is just as versatile as the spear Which stat does it scale with? Skill, Dexterity? Because it looks crazy fun.
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Jan 20, 2017 16:36
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lets hang out posted:Euro demo has started. Hell yes, I was hoping there'd be respeccing. The lack of it in Bloodborne is one of the three things I don't like about a game I otherwise consider to be frighteningly close to perfect (the others being the reliance on blood gems for damage bonuses in Chalices and NG+ and the extremely clumsy online), so I'm glad it'll be in Nioh. Snak posted:There are ways to increase the rate at which your Spirit Gauge charges, and also different guardians charge at different rate. If you're doing a spirit build, you'd presumable level more than one. I forget which one it is, but one them, Bird or Shark, I think, basically charges so fast you can be in living weapon every fight. It has a very low damage bonus compared to the others, but levelling guardians hasn't been in either of the trials, so we don't know what effect that will have. Neat. Yeah, I'm probably going to go Body + Heart + Spirit then. I'm betting that won't be spreading myself too thin and I can always respec if it isn't working out. Gonna try that in this weekend's demo.
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Jan 20, 2017 17:09
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Lakbay posted:I hope that's just ambiguous wording but that sounds like it makes you level 1 again and you have to grind back to where you were It sounds like it refunds all your Amrita and skill points but drops you to level 1, which means you can just re-spend that Amrita to level right back up again. I think that red-text "this will make you level 1" thing is just so people don't use it and then immediately jump into a mission before spending their Amrita and get owned because they're level 1 now. If it really is a "grind your way back up if you hate your build, scrub" then I don't think they'd say that it lets you "reassign your Amrita and skill points," because that wording implies that you're not losing your Amrita and skill points.
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Jan 20, 2017 17:14
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lets hang out posted:Saw someone say it's dex Welp, looks like I'm going to have to put "go full ninja" on my list of builds to try then.
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Jan 20, 2017 17:21
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fadam posted:All three of the testing rewards are masks? Are masks just cosmetic in this game or do they have stats? I'd guess they're just cosmetic, because the game has a "cosmetics" system where you can make your armor look like other armor. They probably have stats but most items like this are only good for the first hour or two of the game.
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Jan 20, 2017 18:39
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DatonKallandor posted:If you run extremely light armor you don't need that much extra ki at least in the last playable. I'll probably want more than super-light armor so I'll likely level Heart anyway. Body/Heart/Spirit is what I'm going to try out in this demo when I get home, I think. Seems really well-rounded, if nothing else.
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Jan 20, 2017 20:30
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DatonKallandor posted:Elixirs work like Bloodborne now - excess gets dumped in your storage and visiting a shrine pulls your elixirs from storage. Works really well. Hell yes. DatonKallandor posted:Ki-Pulse on dodges is now in for every stance, but it's a skill you need to buy with samurai points, per weapon, per stance. Huh, interesting. Maybe an attempt to balance low stance? I remember it being easily the best stance for general use in the last beta.
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Jan 20, 2017 22:54
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What do you have to do to unlock all the rewards? I got the reward from the first demo but not the second.
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Jan 21, 2017 00:05
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How much should I be increasing Strength and/or Skill for the purpose of equipping armor? I've noticed even medium armor seems to have Strength requirements to unlock its abilities sometimes. Or maybe a better question is: if I want to be a spear guy, do I want medium or light armor? I haven't noticed a ton of difference in my movement between the two, but I also don't think I've gone quite low enough in equipment weight to hit the lowest tier. Harrow fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Jan 21, 2017 |
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Jan 21, 2017 06:37
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Does armor defense matter much in Nioh, or is it closer to Bloodborne/DS3 in light armor + dodging being better than anything armor could actually do for you? I don't have time tonight but tomorrow I guess I can test for myself how much difference medium vs. light armor makes for mobility, but what about for damage reduction?
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Jan 21, 2017 08:33
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DatonKallandor posted:Armor makes a huge difference. You get very tanky (which can be further improved with magic buffs/weapon shouts) but attacks also cost a huge amount of Ki. You can actually see the difference very well when you fight spectres. A spectre that's armored to the hilt is going to take a lot of finishers, while a near-naked spectre will die after very few hits. What about the difference between medium and light armor? I'm assuming medium isn't going to make me mega-tanky ever because it also still lets me move pretty quickly. I don't think I want to go full tank with this spear guy I'm playing but I can't decide between leveling Strength some for the heavier medium armors or leveling Skill for light armors.
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Jan 21, 2017 14:51
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The Moon Monster posted:On a scale from Diablo 2 to Darksiders 2 how much does the randomized loot ruin this game? Where on that scale does "not game-changing, seems relatively innocuous" fall? Right in the middle?
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Jan 21, 2017 15:34
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Yeah, offering unwanted gear to the shrines is actually pretty nice because you get amrita (EXP) and random consumable items for it.
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Jan 21, 2017 16:00
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This samurai boss makes the bloody crow from Bloodborne look like a fair fight. Jesus christ Also why the hell can't I buy Elixirs with anything? I've lost enough to this boss that now I have to go grind elixir drops in the easier mission. Why can't I just use all this gold to get some? Harrow fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jan 21, 2017 |
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Jan 21, 2017 19:12
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Muneshige is the problem I'm having. The Ogress was fine. This guy is the closest I think I've come to calling bullshit on a game in a long time. I'm serious when I say that I feel like the stupid Cainhurst crow guy in the Cathedral in Bloodborne feels like more of a fair fight than this.
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Jan 21, 2017 19:24
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So does Muneshige have attacks where he just becomes invulnerable while charging them? Because gently caress that
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Jan 21, 2017 19:57
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Jesus gently caress, finally beat him. Had 53 Life left and no elixirs and just went at it. Spears really sucked for me against him. I ended up respeccing to a very high-Heart built and using a katana and did way, way better. He needs less health and maybe get rid of those "invulnerable while charging" attacks.
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Jan 21, 2017 20:08
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Snak posted:I think the chargeuos can br interupted by rangrd things, ljke talismans and probably shuriken. My debuffs seemed to interrupt him, which is cool. But again, I only get the 2 of each. What did they change about the magic system that made it worse? I didn't use it much in previous demos.
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Jan 21, 2017 20:16
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How do the Sacred Brush items or whatever work? Do they restore uses of magic talismans?Snak posted:I don't understand why he can initiate attacks while his ki bar is flashing red. And also dodge while it's flashing red. Normally you want to rush in and get a critical on him when that happens but he just keeps dancing away with 0 ki.
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Jan 21, 2017 20:44
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Definitely ended up falling out of love with spears in this demo. Well, I still like them for normal enemies, but the katana is doing much better for me against bosses. If only there was any overlap at all between katana and kusarigama stats, those are the two most fun for me.
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Jan 21, 2017 23:11
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DatonKallandor posted:^^ There is some overlap if you go for light armor I think. Body/Skill required (and body is single Katana right?) Heart is single katana. Body is spears.
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Jan 21, 2017 23:21
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Russian Remoulade posted:I really wanted to like this game, but I feel like the combat system demands way more mastery than I'm willing to put in. I can't even parry basic mooks consistently. If you're having trouble with the fancier techniques, just focus on dodging and striking back. High stance katana is pretty simple to do that with--dodge, chop a dude's head, dodge, chop a dude's head. And just try not to let enemies get behind you, because you take (I think?) double damage from behind. So do enemies, though, so try to hit them in the back. Save parrying, fancy combos, etc. for when you've mastered dodge timings and Ki pulse (hit R1 as the little blue particles flash around your character after you attack to get stamina back). Harrow fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jan 22, 2017 |
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Jan 22, 2017 02:02
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Zaphod42 posted:There is slightly; heart is best for katana and dexterity is best for kusari but skill benefits both. Once I respecced I went heavily into Heart, with enough Spirit to get all of the guardian spirit bonuses in the demo and enough Body and Strength for medium armor and it worked out really well, so I'm sure there'd be room to go for Skill instead and wear light armor if I wanted to use kusarigama. I was surprised at how much easier I found the Ogress in the twilight mission after I'd already beaten Muneshige. The lightning sword his mission gives is awesome as hell for a katana + Spirit build.
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Jan 22, 2017 03:21
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Zaphod42 posted:Oh wow, and one of the random special diablo effects you can get on a weapon drop is damage bonus in another stat it normally doesn't scale in. Yeah, Muneshige's lightning sword has a B scaling in Spirit on top of the normal katana scaling, so I was really drat happy to get it. Pretty much perfect for the build I was doing. I Soul Matched it with a stronger katana to increase its attack and tore poo poo up in the twilight mission.
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Jan 22, 2017 03:24
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If I've done the main mission, its twilight version, and the Muneshige fight, I've done everything in the demo, right? I want to make sure I'm not missing anything before I spend the rest of the demo just screwing around with different weapons.Manatee Cannon posted:I keep having the same experience with the nioh demos. the areas are cool and I enjoy them, but then I get to a boss and all the fun is sucked out of it I feel that way about Muneshige, the samurai duel boss. For one thing, you'll get demolished if you rely on blocking--for me, that's fine, I don't like to rely on blocking anyway, but up until then it's presented as a viable defensive option and you just can't against him. But then there's the fact that he cheats. He dodges when he has no ki, he goes invulnerable when he starts up certain attacks, he just all-around likes to break the rules that other non-yokai enemies all follow. I can beat him pretty regularly now (and the sword his mission awards owns hard), but getting there was less about me being good enough to beat him and more about memorizing the ways he breaks the rules and not getting suckered in. The Ogress, though, I find pretty fun. She reminds me of Vicar Amelia, only easier. I say "easier" because the Ogress goes from "holy gently caress how do I beat her she can hit me anywhere I am what the gently caress" to "really easy" as soon as you realize that she can't hit you if you're really close to her except with her leap. In the Twilight version she gains a side/back swipe attack intended to punish you for staying close, but if you're close to her and in front of her, you're still just as safe. She just falls over and dies once you learn her trick. I can definitely the potential for Nioh to swing too hard for difficult bosses, though, and if more of the bosses are like Muneshige then I'm going to have a bad time with the full game, I think. Harrow fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Jan 22, 2017 |
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Jan 22, 2017 15:33
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Looks like you can't refashion armor to look like certain unique sets? I can't make my Vassal armor look like the Warrior of the West set  Anyway, a question: is there much, if any, damage reduction difference between light and medium armor of the same level? Because it seems like the difference, at least in the "defensive multiplier" stat, is really small. If that's the case, then medium armor is pretty worthless--you should either go light and have (slightly) better mobility, or heavy and have actual defense. Or is there a stat I'm not looking at that makes medium armor better for defense than light? Oh, also: Nioh has my favorite video game mimics I think I've ever seen. They don't just mimic a treasure. Once they get caught, they mimic you. The first time I saw that I cracked up laughing, that was delightful. Harrow fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jan 22, 2017 |
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Jan 22, 2017 16:02
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Pennfalath posted:There is something playing an instrument, kill it before they summon the revenants. Those guys are my favorite enemies in the demo. That's a really clever idea for an enemy. The revenants showing up on their own scared the poo poo out of me, but revenants are fun to fight and once you see the strumming guy you can just headshot him with a bow and be done with it if you want. Davincie posted:is everyone that thinks bosses have too much hp leveling right and using their skills? im mean they have a lot of hp, but they don't have that much more than your average souls boss I think Muneshige has too much health for how intense of a fight he can be (unless you're fighting him significantly overleveled). Both Ogress fights are fine once you discover that you can attack her pretty much with impunity by staying close. Mid-stance katana heavy attacks just tore the twilight version apart for me, it was fun. Zyklon B Zombie posted:I was really excited for this game, but I think I might cancel my preorder after playing the demo. This is the first game I've ever said this about, but I think it is just too hard for me. These bosses just seem like huge hp sinks, and if I'm struggling for hours against the first couple of bosses in the game, I know I am just going to get super frustrated with whatever the hell is at the end game of this. It really bugs me that the samurai guy just straight up cheats too. I thought one of the big points of seeing the stanima bar was you could see that the AI was playing by your rules too. The big boss in the demo (the Ogress) has a lot of health to force you to be aggressive, which (incidentally) is also the easiest way to avoid getting hit by her, since she can't hit you if you're close except with her easy-to-dodge leap. I agree about Muneshige (the samurai guy), though. Unless there's something I'm missing, he full-on cheats with his Ki bar and it made the fight really frustrating for me.
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Jan 22, 2017 16:53
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