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Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

Your Loyal Vizier posted:

Without a doubt, it's the reason I paid my :10bux:. Thanks for keeping it alive.

The CPU section recommends a 6600 for non-overclocking, not a 6500 (which is the price/performance sweet spot last I checked). Intentional?
The answer I got when I asked this upon seeing it sore up in builds is that the 6600 has an additional 300 mhz hiding in its turbo mode over the 6500. Personally I don't think that justifies the price difference considering the K version is marginally more $ than the 6600, and can yield substantially more.

Emphasizing getting faster ram on K and z170 builds is now noted though.

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Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
^ Probably. Install 7, immediate upgrade via Windows update?

Additionally, other than the monitor and tower you can get a keyboard, mouse, and speakers from other sources. And have those wrapped separately.

Depends on what you want for those really. I have a g502 but I nabbed it on sale for 50. Keyboards and mice tend to be more person specific though.

I'm also a cheap rear end.

Jack Forge fucked around with this message at 20:09 on May 2, 2016

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
Ymmv on mb features. Killed NiC, not the worst but not the best either. Soso onboard audio as well. Radish outback has a better thought on this part in particular though.

On your build I'd get some DDR4-3000+ at least, especially since you want to over clock it. (Assuming the mb can oc to 3000+ on the ram side.)

Jack Forge fucked around with this message at 20:22 on May 2, 2016

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

LogicalFallacy posted:

Biggest things I feel are important with gaming mice are ergonomics and hotkeys. You want something you'll be comfortable holding onto for extended periods of time/extremely tense periods of action, and you want to choose based on how many shortcuts/hotkeys/macros you want available within easy reach. I specifically went with the G600, in part because it was on sale, but also because of the sheer quantity of keys available. (12 thumbkeys, left/right presses on middle button, 2 additional middle buttons, and an "G-switch" for effective doubling of available functions)

True enough. Depends more on the games you play too. Mmos and mobas all benefit from that mass of thumb buttons. Fps and strategy games, not so much. Toms has a decent run down and ratings on mice. http://www.tomsguide.com/us/best-gaming-mice,review-2220.html They have more than just this of course.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

Watermelon Daiquiri posted:

So I guess I'll try one more time:

I'd comment, but those mini builds are out of my depth entirely. :(

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

Your Loyal Vizier posted:

. . .

That said, the garish LEDs can be turned off, which makes it look much more muted. And if you can believe it under all that styling, the shape is very similar to the MX518... the old soldier by which all mice shall be judged. o7

. . .

What was will be forever a no-scope headshot without end. Amen.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
Down grade the ram speed or get a z170 chipset mother board. The h170 won't be able to do anything but down clock the ram.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
Whoops, ok at that price difference you're absolutely right. I don't stay up on prices nearly as much as I should. >.<

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
Should he think about a dedicated sound card? Or did he already have that?

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
I know of a, maybe 2, 980's on eBay that will likely go for around 300, one is at 250 with just under 2 hours. (No, they aren't mine)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262430088691

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
I think I'd have to recommend against a gigabyte board. I wish they'd get their poo poo together as more good manufacturers only benefits everyone else.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

KingColliwog posted:

If I am planning on building a new computer in the near future (I have until january), am I right in thinking that I should just put money aside and then buy all the parts at once on a big sale day VS buying a part here and there if it's on sale?

Like if I buy a processor on sale tomorow in 3-4 months it's likely to be cheaper or similarly priced?
May be cases/hard drives/monitors are different but I already have those.

Prices tend to only drop after new product release cycles, and then only after another period of time. Video cards are the only piece really susceptible to that sort of sharp drop. Barring some unknown tech leap, just after a dev cycle uggs usually the best time to get something.

^ that too.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
For all those asking about price drops, they will only drop a small amount as third party developers get cards to market. Art the midst this will be a 5 - 10% drop at best. So basically, wait till your producer of choice out the card that you want and get it. Prices are unlikely to move much after that for year or more.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

Thirteenth Step posted:

I've got an old-as-gently caress PC from like ~2009 and I cant decide what to do in terms of upgrading.

Intel Core2 E8400 3000MHZ
Asus P5Q Pro
8GB DDR2
Radeon HD4850
500GB SSD
1TB HDD
Some gash Antec 500w PSU


Is it worth me buying a fairly decent mid-range card like the 750 TI or the GTX 950 and shoving it into this PC? or should I bite the bullet and spend a little bit more and get something better in terms of overall spec? Will the rest of my dated PC make getting a fairly new video card pointless?

No man, I was in your exact, or nearly, boat. Just no ssd in my old rig. Got a i5 6500, (though if it's in budget getting the I5 6600k plus cooler is better long term), 16gb ddr4, a samsung850 ssd, and a new case. Kept my replacement graphics card, 280x. Still saw massive frame increases even going up to 1440p.

Next is a 1070, and I'll be set for another 5-6 years.

You'll see an improved by upgrading your card with a mediocre card, but you'll see a huge difference with a full upgrade. Something like 5x faster.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
Question, what's the preferred flavor of 1070?

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

Migz posted:

So this was my original build, but I saw this on new egg and thinking of using this instead:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.2543214


PC noob here, it seems like higher numbers obviously but is this going to help me much for gaming? Heres the break down for those that do not want to click on link:


1x Intel Core i7-6700K Skylake Quad-Core 4.0 GHz LGA 1151 91W BX80662I76700K Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 530 (Model:BX80662I76700K)
$299.99
1x GIGABYTE G1 Gaming GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 (rev. 1.0) LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (Model:GA-Z170X-Gaming 7)
$179.99
1x G.SKILL TridentZ Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3400 (PC4 27200) Intel Z170 Platform Desktop Memory Model F4-3400C16D-16GTZ (Model:F4-3400C16D-16GTZ)
$134.99

Combined Total: $614.97
Combo Discounts: - $64.98
Combo Price: $549.99

Make sure you're getting a Z170 (or something) motherboard else all that money spent on the k processor, faster ram, and hsf will be wasted. DO NOT GET THE H.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
That's, that's, super wierd.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

WanderingKid posted:

Do you really need all those drive bays? Thats what makes the fractal case huge.

I never swapped the mobo out in an XPS 8100 or XPS 8700 so I dunno if the mounting holes are standard for m-atx. I don't see any reason why not though. You could stay in the XPS 8500 case if you aren't replacing the motherboard. This is quite viable but you will need to measure everything.

I know for a fact the Noctua securefirm mounting bracket fits the XPS 8700 motherboard although the Noctua cooler I used (NH-U12S) was way too tall for the case at 161mm. It was protruding outside the chasis so the side panel couldn't close. An NH-D9L will fit though (110mm tall).

GPUs have to be around pascal reference card size. The EVGA ACX 3.0 cards will fit (just barely) and thats pretty close to Founder's Edition size. Check the measurements on EVGA's site. I think its something like 4.5 inches tall and 10.5 inches long. MSI's current crop of Twin Frozr cards will not fit. I made this mistake going from an MSI GTX 760 to a GTX 1070 and assumed that same cooler probably meant same dimensions. Nope. The current Twin Frozr cards are 5.1 inches tall and 10.9 inches long. You can physically get the card most of the way into the PCI-E slot but its too long and too tall so the PCI-E power connectors are blocked. Your screenshot doesn't show the part of the chasis that blocks it but its the side of the chasis where the HDD cages are attached.

2.5 inch SSDs will not mount to the HDD cages. Well you can do it but you can only hold it down with 2x screws. I tried an OCZ 2.5 to 3.5 inch mounting kit since it came free with my Vertex 2 120gb drive way back when, but that didn't fit either since the mounting points were totally wrong. You can get away with 2 drives in the pre-installed HDD cage, just don't mount a third drive over the gpu since you will never get the fucker out. You may not be able to get your graphics card in either.

You can install any PSU in the Dell. I had Antec TP-550s in both Dell boxes.

Eh, on the fractal case those middle drive bays should be removable. Giving you another 3-4 inches. And all the fractal 3.5 bays have the appropriate holes for 2.5 dives.

I dunno about the corsair case though.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

GutBomb posted:

. . . CPU (6600k overclocked to 4.7ghz) and a 120mm radiator for my video card (an overclocked gtx 1080 founders edition . . . (I replaced the stock cooler on the 1080 founders edition . . .

Ofc you're going to seer lower noise with water cooling when oc'ing these parts, and lower temps, that's kinda what water cooling is for.

If you're not oc'ing or getting a vacum cleaner for a video card, air will be just fine and only noticeable at full load.

Jack Forge fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jan 18, 2017

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

Cyclomatic posted:

That helps clarify things.

I get that it may be overkill, but my understanding is that while the card has a lot of power, and you pay for it, that card isn't deep into diminishing returns per dollar spent. I also plan to play a very poorly optimized game, and nuking the requirements from orbit feels reasonable to me so long as the nukes are reasonably priced for the size of the crater they make. I also understand that card will benefit the Oculus if not the monitor. I'd rather overspend semi-efficiently than come up short because I was trying to pinch pennies. Is that card unreasonable for that line of thinking?

I am also under the impression that monitors last a long time, so buying a nicer monitor should last me for awhile. Or is that wrong thinking?

Nah, that's like, 99% on the money.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

GutBomb posted:

And if you're in the market for a video card you're probably playing games which is going to see your pc getting to full load during gaming quite often, and it's going to be noisy and with water cooling it's not...

Considering I have a older card on otherwise a new build with the kinda mediocre stock hsfu, a R4 fractal designs case with 3 case fans and I still can't hear it over the hvac in the house, and when I'm gaming I either have sound on or headphones, so any extra noise reduction from water cooling seems moot. Fwik water cooling results in a higher idle dB due to more fans. If the dude wants to nap his pc went be at load. Imho he should get a nice quiet case and save some $.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

GutBomb posted:

The case fans and radiator fans are the same fans. It's not more fans. At least with my system.

Again, I was simply originally replying to one paragraph that said liquid cooling was loud and dangerous when in reality it's neither.

If my head isn't within 2 feet of my computer case I don't hear it at all while idle. Under load, if I really try I can hear a little bit of fan noise but it's a night and day difference from a stock GPU cooler and popular CPU air coolers.

If you don't like liquid cooling, cool. Don't use it. But to say it's louder than air cooling in a real world situation when it's set up properly is just incorrect.

Oh yeah, it's not dangerous, at least not anymore than having a drink near your box. It would definitely be cooler and quieter under load.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
Having 32 gb ram myself, it reduces your page file space to something inconsequential. It's been nifty for not using the ssd for it, having done insane 6gb chrome tabs, music, and a aaa game all running at once with no noticeable impact.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
Dude, the other thread is active, several pages of posts in the last week alone, relax.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

GutBomb posted:

Why not just build a completely competent gaming machine including monitor, nice keyboard, and nice mouse for $2k and spend the other $8k on hookers or something?

Future proofing isn't a thing. 64gb of ram is pointless now and by the time it's not the ram you picked and many of the other components you've picked will be slow and out of date. You can build a perfectly nice gaming machine that maxes out everything currently available comfortably for $2 and then upgrade parts every year or two instead and still have plenty of money left over for drugs and prostitutes.

This.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
The specs on the processor indicate max supported resolution, this can be across multiple displays. Seems like it might not, at least not with both at 1440. 1050 should cover you though. 1060 definitely.

Jack Forge fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Feb 9, 2017

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

Surprise Giraffe posted:

Im sort of trying to cheap out as this setup is only supposed to replace/upgrade the 1150 board I broke trying to install the rx480; gonna go with a gigabyte z170 that supports ddr3 so i can use my old RAM and still oc.

You really need to check to see if that's a low voltage ddr3 board or not. Your old ddr3 won't work in a low voltage board, or even fit.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
All of it is going up. Ddr3 more so. Blame smart phones.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
OK a few quick things:

1 - How long do you want this computer to 'last'? Consider a 7600k.

2 - Consider getting a more modern CPU at this point, 7XXX.

3 - You'll need a 270 board for a 7XXX cpu, and will need a Z170/Z270 to run that speed of ram at all. The one you have picked will not run it any faster than 2133.

4 - You will only need a cpu cooler if you get a K, and get the 212 or H7 as indicated in the other builds in this thread.

5 - Yeah, that psu should be fine, the m.2 is also fine but comes at a slight price premium over a 2.5"

6 - Consider the Fractal designs r5 for a windowed very nice white case. http://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/cases/define-series/define-r5-white-window (others here will no doubt suggest the define s, but it's not white, but it is smaller, with no 5.25 exterior bays)

7 - The 250gb drive might fill up awful fast, think about getting a 500gb which gives you more breathing space on your fast drive.

8 - You *might* want to up the video card for a better VR experience, but that's a question best left for the others that will comment, probably better than I have.

9 - How old is your wireless adapter? What kind of wireless router do you have?

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
Microcenter will save you a whooole lot.

Jack Forge fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Mar 7, 2017

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

jokes posted:

. . .

Second, as far as processors go, I don't know why I'd want to upgrade past my 6700k for the 7700k considering how incremental it is. I mean, my setup has a 140mm fan blowing fresh air right on top of the motherboard and processor, which has its own Noctua heatsink right on top and it still gets to 70C or so when gaming and maxing out my 1080. The 7700k won't improve on performance nor thermals in my case, right?

Sounds like something is wrong here. Do you have a fan on the heatsink itself? Thermal paste done right? Have you oc'ed this or something?

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
I mean, yeah, not really that high, just surprised since mine barely breaks 50 even in a 6 hour stress test. Is there at least exhaust slots?

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
For that guy running 70° at most times the tcase of intel processors is 71° so you're likely just slowly cooking your processor to death for the sake of a tiny box. I mean it's your money, but drat.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

Thirteenth Step posted:

I'm in exactly the same boat so will be keeping an eye on the replies.

Except i'm a cheapskate so my budget is a bit lower than that.

I currently have an E8400 does anyone know what sort of performance increase i'd expect to see going for an i3/i5? is it worth the trouble or is it quite a big jump?

A new i5 7600k (or even a locked 7500) is something like 400% faster. I went from a e8400 to i6400 and it's a very big jump. Add a ssd as your boot/os drive and you'll be very pleased.


Is $325 for a used evga gtx 1070 sc a decent price?

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
New thread title: PC Building/Upgrades/Parts Megathread: Do I need a gigantic baby-head-sized HSF?

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

that ivy guy posted:

my case has a grill at the bottom specifically for the PSU, and the PSU itself says to mount with fan on the bottom for best results. is this not the norm?

If you have a decent air gap under the case (hard floor or surface), yes. Case on shag carpet, no.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Amazon has the EVGA 1070 SC Black Edition for $343.56: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KVZBNY0

You might still be able to find one for ~$320 on Jet.com with SPRING15, but this is a pretty good base price for a Step

Would it be worth +~$50 for the icx version? Or does that matter anymore? (Midtower case)

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012
Probably in a 3-4 months, apparently newer intel socket/cpu combo's will be out, but ram isn't that expensive compared to $400+ a cpu/memory/mobo refresh will be.

Especially since the 4430 (this one doesn't OC does it?) is still more than competent vs new gear.

Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

FutureDwight posted:

Hey guys, I'm looking to build a PC, but I have never done it before so I have a lot of questions about parts. I've mostly gamed on consoles before, but with all the weird upgrades that both Microsoft and Sony are doing, I figured I might as well go with a PC. The OP answered a lot of my questions, but I still think that I need help actually picking out the hardware

  • What country are you in? U.S.
  • What are you using the system for? Web and Office? Gaming? Video or photo editing? Professional creative or scientific computing? Mostly gaming and some work, but the work that i'm going to be doing on it won't be very taxing.
  • What's your budget? We usually specify for just the computer itself (plus Windows), but if you also need monitor/mouse/whatever, just say so. I want to spend roughly $1000 on the computer itself. This isn't a hard limit, but I don't want to go too far over it. I'm planning on purchasing a monitor to match what the PC would be capable of. I already have a mouse, keyboard, and speakers.
  • If you’re doing professional work, what software do you need to use? What’s your typical project size and complexity? If you use multiple pieces of software, what’s your workflow? I'm a teacher and pretty much everything I use for work already runs on my lovely 7 year old work laptop
  • If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution? How fancy do you want your graphics, from “it runs” to “Ultra preset as fast as possible”?
    I don't have a real concrete target, but I would like to play Destiny 2 on PC instead of console (hopefully that's not a pipe dream). Mostly, I just want to get the most out of my $1000ish dollars.

I looked at the "value gamer" guide in the OP and found parts that matched what's there (at least to my eyes, you might see something different). Any help would be appreciated and I am open to any and all suggestions that increase the bang for my buck

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-6300 3.8GHz Dual-Core Processor ($139.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock 3 67.8 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler ($65.49 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H270M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard ($91.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($66.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($179.00 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB GAMING X Video Card ($259.98 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT S340 (Black/Red) ATX Mid Tower Case ($59.89 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($69.89 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($86.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1019.10
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-04 20:40 EDT-0400

Alternatively: PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-7600K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($228.66 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($34.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock Z270 Pro4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($103.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($57.98 @ Directron)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($179.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB ARMOR OCV1 Video Card ($229.98 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT S340 (Black/Red) ATX Mid Tower Case ($59.89 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($73.98 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($86.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1056.23
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-04 22:35 EDT-0400

Gives you better single core performance and significantly more quad core performance, OC'able for longevity, and you can add another 8gb ddr4 stick as your monies allow (find a win 10 key on SAmart if that still works).

Note: I'm not a huge intel guy but this seems to have better legs now and in the future after looking at the benches comparing this intel vs that AMD. http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-7600K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-1500X/3885vs3921

Jack Forge fucked around with this message at 03:47 on May 5, 2017

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Jack Forge
Sep 27, 2012

big crush on Chad OMG posted:

Doesn't OC. I'm running Memtest to see if I can isolate whether its the module or the board itself.

Looks like this might be a decent deal if it's just a module. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J8E8Y5C/

drat, that does look good for ddr3. AFAIK even stock that processor is still pretty good compared to todays stuff.

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