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I know I'm late on this, but what exactly is the point of the "pym particles can drive you insane without this special helmet" subplot in ant-man when the villain's already been shown to be willing to murder people for slightly disagreeing with him?
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Jun 7, 2016 11:22
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This movie's editing is wack.
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Jun 7, 2016 11:47
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greatn posted:I think the implication is he's like that because he's been experimenting with Pym particles. Maybe showing a scene where he does that woulda been good.
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Jun 7, 2016 12:05
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muscles like this? posted:Also the part where Michael Douglas directly says that he's been made mentally unstable because of his experiments with Pym particles. I hadn't gotten to that scene yet. But they still never showed him experimenting with the particles on himself before he murdered a dude for no reason, and doing so would have turned him into goo because they hadn't been perfected yet.
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Jun 7, 2016 12:29
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The Dave posted:Wait you hadn't finished the movie before asking? They said "Someone using pym particles will go insane" and then showed someone who had no functional access to pym particles acting insane. It was pretty sloppy, and the idea that he got "exposed" by just being near experiments doesn't really hold water with the rest of the film. It's fine, plot holes are fine.
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Jun 7, 2016 14:17
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I would really be curious to see what this movie was initially supposed to be like. There were a lot of editing choices that felt like attempts at punching up the pace that just made things seem more incoherent or messed with the natural timing of the jokes, and from what I understand large portions of the film were added pretty late in production. Not that I hated it or anything. It was a solid B-.
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Jun 7, 2016 15:05
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Most of my complaints have little to do with the script, so whatever.
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Jun 7, 2016 15:26
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Whizbang posted:Maybe you would understand the movie better if you paid attention instead of posting while watching it. There's this handy invention called a pause button.
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Jun 7, 2016 23:24
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notthegoatseguy posted:I really like The Killing Joke, and that's coming from someone who doesn't usually like DC/Batman or Alan Moore. It looks like a rushed out piece of poo poo like all of DC's recent animated movies. For as much complaining as there is about what Killing Joke did to the oh-so memorable character of Batgirl, it's one of the better Batman stories ever written. It was never meant to be anything more than just a one-off story that may or may not be canon, and resenting it for decisions DC made after it was published never made sense to me. And for the record I never thought Joker raped her, just took really hosed up naked pictures of her while she was unconscious and bleeding out, which is traumatic enough for Gordon. Sure, it's "rapey" but I honestly don't think we were ever supposed to think it was anything more. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jun 9, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2016 16:35
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I don't like Batman anymore.
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Jun 9, 2016 16:38
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Peter having been molested as a child makes perfect sense as a way to inform his character, to me.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:03
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Travis343 posted:Whether or not Joker literally penetrated her with his chalk white clown dick shooting a person, stripping her naked, and taking pictures of her is inarguably sexual assault so the semantic argument of how it's not that bad, it wasn't technically rape, is hugely irrelevant to how terrible killing joke is It's actually a pretty relevant distinction. Not because it makes it "less bad" but because it's a different context. It's more akin to the way people are dehumanized in Guantanamo Bay than a guy raping a woman in an alley in a sleazy 70s italian movie. They're both horrific real life acts but their context in fiction is totally different and trying to pretend they're the same because they fit a legal definition is really tone deaf and childish.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:26
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twistedmentat posted:Rape is awesome if the Joker is doing it! I think you're conflating different groups of awful people, for what it's worth.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:35
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He regrets a lot of things about it, namely that it's too thematically similar to Watchmen and that DC just kept trying to redo it for 30 years. I think his main regret towards Barbara is that they made it in continuity and had Barbara become a crippled victim for decades after the fact, which is not great for one of DC's 3 recognizable female heroes.
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Jun 9, 2016 19:45
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Besides, everyone knows The Rape Guy is Garth Ennis.
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Jun 9, 2016 21:06
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I was not being figurative.
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Jun 9, 2016 22:23
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Cyborg and Oracle are two DC characters that require a lot of handwaving to keep their defining personal problem intact. Batman got paralyzed once too, it lasted a whoooooooole year.
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Jun 9, 2016 23:14
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BiggerBoat posted:The Joker is still considered a villain, right ? A bad guy? THE bad guy most of the time. He murders people constantly. He's a terrorist. Rape is not something you should use as shorthand for bad guy the way we use murder. We still have serious social problems about sexual assault and its perception and using it for a cartoonish villain pretty much trivializes the experience of real victims. I can't believe someone has to explain something this basic to you.
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Jun 10, 2016 14:08
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Travis343 posted:Yeah it is all well and good to say DC leans way too heavily on a small handful of "mature" stories that were never intended to be the direction for their entire fictional universe but at the same time, Alan Moore writes about rape a whole goddamn lot all on his own. Your weird hatred of the most talented living man in comics is really embarrassing.
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Jun 10, 2016 20:40
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I mean it's not as bad as Neonomicon but yeah it's not top tier Moore. I quite like it. It's no Swamp Thing or Watchmen, but honestly what of that length could ever hope to be? quote:The better ultradark Batman graphic novel of that era is Arkham Asylum. Man, gently caress that.
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Jun 10, 2016 21:39
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Doomsday barely counts as a villain. He just doesn't work outside of his initial story or as a callback to that story.
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Jun 11, 2016 04:55
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He works fine in his own story. He's not exactly a compelling character but he's built up very effectively as a force of nature. There's just not a lot of places you can take a dumb evil guy who can kill Superman once he's done that. It's like Bane's problem but way worse. If you make him smart, he basically just turns into yet another lovely not-Darkseid cosmic threat. If you make Superman fight him again, Superman's just gonna win, no one's gonna buy that he's gonna die twice. The only story I've seen with him past the original appearance that made decent use of him was when Booster Gold had to figure out how to stop him during Flashpoint, and that only worked because Booster had a tenuous connection to him as the first guy to get bulldozed by him and the one who named him.
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Jun 11, 2016 05:04
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My favorite Batman story is Batman Annual #14 from 1990. Jeph Loeb pretty much ripped off the Two-face stuff in Long Halloween from that. I'd hesitate to call it The Best Batman Ever, because Two-Face is like my favorite DC character so I have a massive bias.
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Jun 11, 2016 17:49
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:there are a lot of good ones but my favorite Batman story honestly might be The Batman of Arkham by Alan Grant & Enrique Alcetena. the compassionate Batman is one that doesn't get explored enough. Yeah, I really liked that story. Some of my favorite BTAS episodes are about Batman being a nice dude who has genuine compassion and love for the people of Gotham, even the villains.  Travis343 posted:Hush is like a video game where people get to fight each of Batman's iconic enemies one after the other, which might be fun when you're the one with the controller, but you're not. Jeph Loeb and Jim Lee are holding the controller, and by God they want to show you some Iconic Batman Moments. Here's Batman punching Superman with kryptonite! Here's Batman swordfighting Ra's al Ghul! Here's the Joker for no Goddamned reason, and here's Batman for sure, this time, definitely going to Cross That Line and kill him! Here's every single one of Batman's rogues, somehow involved with this plot! It's like a bad cover band playing all your favorite songs. There's no reason whatsoever not to just listen to the original versions of those songs and pretend Hush never happened. You're describing The Long Halloween, too. It's a completely nonsenical murder mystery broken up by an endless series of BATMAN FIGHTS ALL YOUR FAVORITES!!! with the broad strokes of the Two-Face origin mixed in to distract from the fact that the murder mystery never gets a proper resolution. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jun 11, 2016 |
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Jun 11, 2016 18:01
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I think if some jobber artist had been on Long Halloween no one would bring it up as a classic story. I mean I don't hate it, but it's just... all right.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:08
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I don't mind Batman not solving it, I mind that even Loeb has never been able to explain who killed who when because he didn't give a poo poo about anything making sense.
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Jun 11, 2016 18:17
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Knightfall's great as long as you stop reading one issue after Batman gets his back broken. Seeing Jean-Paul Valley go insane and take down Bane isn't all that thrilling, and I really don't think the rest of the Knightsaga is particularly worth reading, even if Knightsend's last few issues are really good. But the entire buildup of Bane and Batman's defeat is some really good stuff. SonicRulez posted:I think Batman refusing to kill Joker because he's scared to is equal to if not worse than because he doesn't want to for moral reasons. Personally I think Batman refuses to kill because he's a really messed up guy and is afraid of what he would become if he crossed that line. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jun 11, 2016 |
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Jun 11, 2016 21:41
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That's not his job. If people want Joker dead so bad they could just shoot him in the head any time he's prancing around in public explaining what he's poisoned. There's a reason this doesn't come up in Spider-man stories.
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Jun 11, 2016 23:43
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SonicRulez posted:...why? Why doesn't Spider-Man ever get this same nonsense? Spider-man's villains don't kill hundreds and hundreds of people every time they escape, and the stories rarely feature them screaming at Spider-man to kill them as he looms over their broken bodies. Spider-man also isn't this perfectly in control master planner who single-handedly holds back crime in NYC and seems to have more of a say over what happens in it than the cops. He's just a dude who helps where he can.
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Jun 12, 2016 01:32
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Mover posted:This is a really good point. We're always sold on (and want) a Batman who's just miles and miles beyond every other hero in competence and forethought but, due to the nature of the medium, is exactly as effective as pretty much every other hero at whatever power level. Yeah, exactly. Peter killing a villain would be a weirdo vigilante no one trusts murdering someone. Batman doing it would be "The guy the cops look up to" doing it. The idea that a guy who can figure out how to stop every superhero ever if they go rogue can't or isn't willing to math out that Joker should be put down, and also somehow isn't competent enough to keep him from killing scores of people every time he escapes, creates a really stark dissonance. He can't be a bat-god AND a bat-man. Reducing it to a personal code and weird lines like "Kill a killer and the number of killers remains the same" makes it come across as very abstract and selfish reasoning. Batman isn't unsure of what to do or guided by personal ethics or bound by the law, he's 100% sure that killing Joker would be wrong, in his infinite super-detective wisdom. BrianWilly posted:I'm never, ever going to let go of the fact that Bendis once had Maria Hill blame Spider-Man for not killing Norman Osborn in the past. Like I can understand the thought process that led towards that scene existing, but I will never absolve him for it. If anything, one could blame Peter for not outing Norman when he first learned he was the Goblin. You could argue hoping the man could be rehabilitated is what led to the deaths the Goblin caused. I remember in Peter David's run on Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-man, there was this alternate universe where Spidey was just an rear end in a top hat movie star, and it showed Uncle Ben reading a headline of Thor just beating up and unmasking Green Goblin pretty early on. But yeah, that was just Bendis being Bendis.
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Jun 12, 2016 02:20
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Jun 12, 2016 21:15
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Kind of weird and hosed up that Batman knows and is ok with Arkham being a lovely place to send the mentally ill.
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Jun 13, 2016 23:38
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I see a lot of people saying they hated everything BUT Batman in the movie, which is weird as gently caress to me. Sure, Affleck did a good job, but what a miserable, lovely take on the character. It's like they took the already dislikeable, one-dimensional version of the character from the Arkham games and made him even more of a one dimensional rear end in a top hat.
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Jun 14, 2016 05:22
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On the other hand, if you want your kid to be a hero, you give them an alliterative name.
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Jun 14, 2016 07:36
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FlamingLiberal posted:The last Arkham game changed that though? Half of the story was about Bruce not being able to do everything on his own. I didn't play that one.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:16
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Travis343 posted:I don't really agree that Batman is characterized much better than he is in City but Knight is the best game in the series. You should check it out. Every review I've seen said the complete opposite.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:25
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Travis343 posted:Are you sure you're not thinking of Origins, the crappy prequel they farmed out to a different dev team? I saw a lot of 10/10s for Knight with the exception of the pc port being terrible. Which I think they've fixed mostly, I played through the entire game with dlc on steam with no issues. No, every reviewer I trust said they greatly watered down the stealth, added a dumb mechanic that makes combat trivial, and that about 1/3rd of the game is completely unfun tankmobile gameplay. No interesting boss fights to speak of, no interestingly-designed puzzles, just easy combat, easy stealth, and tank fights. And the PC port still doesn't work for like 25% of users, last I heard.
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Jun 14, 2016 18:50
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JT Smiley posted:I'm probably alone on this one, but I'll take the Origins portrayal of Batman over City and Knights any day of the week. He's just a total dick to each and everyone of his allies in the Rocksteady games and never lets up. I'm sorry, how was the Origins portrayal any different?
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Jun 14, 2016 19:34
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JT Smiley posted:Because in Origins Bruce is completely fixated on his war on crime to the point that Alfred almost dies and he realizes that he's been a total rear end in a top hat and maybe he should treat the people in his life like people and not tools for his singular goal. As opposed to every other game where he's just a non-stop dick. So he's an extra huge dick for 99% of the game, repeatedly threatening to murder people and generally being a violent psychopath, and then punches Alfred back to life and goes on a quest for revenge. Wow, so much nuance.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:43
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Oh that's just how I post, it has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing.
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Jun 14, 2016 19:45
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