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Firestorm & Martian Manhunter are so forgettable they get completely obscured by text.
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May 25, 2016 02:57
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They kept the good Martian Manhunter costume, this pleases me.
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May 25, 2016 03:00
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Poor J'onn. he's the Mike Wazowski of DC at this point.
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May 25, 2016 03:10
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So long Kyle Rayner.
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May 25, 2016 03:19
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Codependent Poster posted:So long Kyle Rayner. I'm surprised Dick made it out of this alive.
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May 25, 2016 03:21
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Rhyno posted:I'm surprised Dick made it out of this alive. If anything he's coming back to life.
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May 25, 2016 03:22
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Semper Fudge posted:Geoff Johns didn't like the New 52.
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May 25, 2016 03:42
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Edge & Christian posted:Yes, if your checklist is "I want Wally West and Ted Kord and ______ to be in comic books", congratulations, they're back in comic books. With any luck, the same people responsible for making them go away, the people who orchestrated Ted Kord's murder, the replacement of Wally West, the erasure of his wife and kids, etc. will totally do those characters right this time. All the while discounting the fact that there does seem to be a lot of creative team changes around a lot of books with DC Rebirth so, c'mon, I don't expect everything to be the exact same as it was at all. Heck, I can list the specific books and characters that look like it's gonna be improved from this; for one thing, the idea that Ted Kord will only appear in backgrounds when he's a main character in Giffen's new Blue Beetle book is ridiculous. Could these changes make things worse? Maybe; there's always gonna be bad writers and comics, but if that's the mindset then why read anything new at all? That's why I keep asking about specific examples of Geoff Johns' terrible decisions in the Nu52...not "bad writing," but any examples of tacky ideas, offensive fridgings, gratuitous grimdark, gruesome shock value, character regressions, character assassinations literal or otherwise...that kind of stuff...to back up this impression y'all seem to have that he hasn't changed his lovely writing tendencies in the last five years so clearly he won't change it for this, and I hope you understand that "Well, he's CCO. He runs everything so everything is his fault!" doesn't actually answer the question very well. I think the only substantial answer so far was ImpAtom's critique of NuShazam. Superstring posted:Like... yes? Unless you think the ends justifies the means and it doesn't matter how they get away from the Nu52 as long as they do it. Folks here seem to be expressing themselves pretty clearly why they are skeptical based on leaks/previews and past experience.
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May 25, 2016 03:46
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:The full splash page with every character from rebirth has been released Rick Flagg or whoever that leader guy if suicide squad is my guess. No Booster Gold.  Why can't we have the good dynamic due back?
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May 25, 2016 04:04
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I guess there was already a whole Power Rangers team of Shazams in the the New52? Because nobody mentioned them up in the upper right corner.
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May 25, 2016 04:14
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Luchacabra posted:I guess there was already a whole Power Rangers team of Shazams in the the New52? Because nobody mentioned them up in the upper right corner. That's the modern Captain Marvel/Shazam Family. I've seen panels of them before but I'm not sure where they appeared. But they're a known quantity yes.
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May 25, 2016 04:18
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I wrote some ad copy for a new Rebirth-era Nightwing comic: THERE'S MORE THAN ONE BLUE DICK SWINGING AROUND THE DC UNIVERSE THIS YEAR--!
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May 25, 2016 04:27
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X-O posted:That's the modern Captain Marvel/Shazam Family. I've seen panels of them before but I'm not sure where they appeared. But they're a known quantity yes. Backups in Justice League 11-16 or so.
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May 25, 2016 04:28
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BrianWilly posted:So what's the alternative? To not have those characters, for the writers to not acknowledge these problems, and just have things go on the way they have been with no course correction? I mean you're basically presuming that no one currently headlining DC is ever going to make good choices for the story universe again so I guess everyone in charge should just fire themselves instead of trying to do better? And then bring in an all new creative-editorial team to do...the same exact thing that the current team is doing with this event? quote:That's why I keep asking about specific examples of Geoff Johns' terrible decisions in the Nu52...not "bad writing," but any examples of tacky ideas, offensive fridgings, gratuitous grimdark, gruesome shock value, character regressions, character assassinations literal or otherwise...that kind of stuff...to back up this impression y'all seem to have that he hasn't changed his lovely writing tendencies in the last five years so clearly he won't change it for this, and I hope you understand that "Well, he's CCO. He runs everything so everything is his fault!" doesn't actually answer the question very well. I think the only substantial answer so far was ImpAtom's critique of NuShazam. But track records don't matter so who cares?
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May 25, 2016 04:45
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Can someone explain to me how the "Alan Moore is the villain of Final Crisis" thing works? I've never read it.
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May 25, 2016 04:57
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:The full splash page with every character from rebirth has been released  GODDAMNIT DC, Where the hell is Kyle Rayner??!!!!!Edit: TFR the way it was in Final Crisis you had these Omni beings called Judges. One for each of the 52 universes in the DC Multiverse. These judges would take care of it keep Hyperflies and other extra dementional poo poo from degrading it. One judge supposedly greatest of them all essentially succumbs to being the source of evil. And feeds on the world's. This judge is made to look like Vampire Alan Moore. It's pretty obvious when you see it, I kinda thought it was like a funny jab. And really didn't think it to be a super serious jab at Moore himself. Jiro fucked around with this message at 05:13 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 05:06
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Edge & Christian posted:"He's the chief creative officer" is actually pretty relevant to the conversation, For that matter, Didio is not EIC any more, so he should really be more out of the loop and out of the spotlight, but here we are. It may be that DC is poorly run.
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May 25, 2016 05:29
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StumblyWumbly posted:It may be that DC is poorly run. Well that's understatement of the year.
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May 25, 2016 05:32
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X-O posted:That's the modern Captain Marvel/Shazam Family. I've seen panels of them before but I'm not sure where they appeared. But they're a known quantity yes. From Geoff Johns work on New 52 Shazam, right? Because, if so,I don't have high hopes for these characters—I mean, the last time he worked on that family of characters, he brought Isis in as a heroic entity battling the imperial, evangelical conquest of a foreign god backed by child-murdering super-technology. 
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May 25, 2016 05:33
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TFRazorsaw posted:Can someone explain to me how the "Alan Moore is the villain of Final Crisis" thing works? I've never read it. The Alan Moore Monitor was the 'greatest of them all' and in a fairly biblical fashion was corrupted and became a monstrosity, then cast out, after he finds that feeding on the 'Bleed' between worlds empowered him (which also caused worlds to die horribly). FC is all about DC heroes fighting against weaponized despair. The ending is about fans moving past the Chromium Widescreen age. It's made to be Moore in the story because the character feeds on worlds and then perverts the essence of these things to gain power. It's the source of pure darkness in the DCU, worse than even Darkseid, because it reflects the cannibalization of hope and purity and potential. The fact it's beaten back by the most epic of team ups (that includes a giant cartoon super rabbit) is a repudiation of the Mooreian habit to 'update' characters and make them realistic conflicted creations. Morrison is all about embracing the levity and totality of the genre (which Moore's reversioning often does away with). FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 05:40 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 05:37
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Rhyno posted:Backups in Justice League 11-16 or so. I'm down for Shazam fam. Feels like they've been gun shy with Shazam though. Probably waiting until they know what the hell they're doing with the movie.
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May 25, 2016 05:39
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While we're doing DC'S Who's Who... The green hooded lady looking at Beast Boy's butt? Black and gold girl by Superman's crotch? Sword and ponytail above white Wally? Guy in blue shirt between white Wally and Huntress? Floaty green guy behind Roy?
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May 25, 2016 05:40
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Heathen posted:While we're doing DC'S Who's Who... Don't know the first one, but the others are Omen, Bumblebee, Artemis, and Aqualad.
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May 25, 2016 05:43
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Heathen posted:While we're doing DC'S Who's Who... - Enchantress? - Bumblebee - Artemis - Tempest/Aqualad/Garth - Omen
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May 25, 2016 05:45
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Die Laughing posted:I'm down for Shazam fam. Feels like they've been gun shy with Shazam though. Probably waiting until they know what the hell they're doing with the movie. N52 Shazam has actually been a bunch of fun. Like when he and Cyborg were chilling on the Watchtower and he used his powers to conjour poo poo to entertain himself.
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May 25, 2016 05:48
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I read it and I liked it. What are you gonna do about it goons? (In all honesty I actually did find it enjoyable, though the twist at the end is a bit much.)
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May 25, 2016 05:54
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Rhyno posted:N52 Shazam has actually been a bunch of fun. Like when he and Cyborg were chilling on the Watchtower and he used his powers to conjour poo poo to entertain himself. That was good. Him and Damian were great.
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May 25, 2016 05:57
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FilthyImp posted:In the 'story' of the DCU, the blank canvass expanse of creation looked at itself and found a 'flaw'. It was walled off to prevent infection (where the Source Wall comes from) and the Monitors were sent to observe. The flaw turned out to be the multiverse, and after ages The Monitors ended up accidentally influencing the stories within it. Wow. I'm no fan of Moore but that feels like a super lovely thing to do.
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May 25, 2016 06:00
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lotus circle posted:I read it and I liked it. What are you gonna do about it goons? 
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May 25, 2016 06:00
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Edge & Christian posted:Geoff Johns is still writing bad comics in the New 52. His Justice League is often pretty tone deaf and features nonsense mash-them-toys up logic Whoa whoa whoa I agree with many of your points but I will not have anyone knock the Batchair
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May 25, 2016 06:07
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TFRazorsaw posted:Wow. It's kinda sorta reiterating a point he made in Seven Soldiers with Zor the Terrible Time Tailor. You can even find it in Flex Mentallo. It's a condemnation of "grim for the sake of grim because that uncompromising and total approach is the only way comics can mean something" most people would here would agree with.
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May 25, 2016 06:22
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ElNarez posted:It's kinda sorta reiterating a point he made in Seven Soldiers with Zor the Terrible Time Tailor. You can even find it in Flex Mentallo. It's a condemnation of "grim for the sake of grim because that uncompromising and total approach is the only way comics can mean something" most people would here would agree with. The problem is Alan Moore for all his faults never attempted that. Alan Moore just makes a convenient scapegoat. This shows that ultimately Dan and Johns have learned nothing.
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May 25, 2016 06:26
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Again, I dislike Moore, but in a lot of his works, the grimness is more than "for the sake of being grim."
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May 25, 2016 06:26
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Wait...I remember all that stuff about Mandrakk representing grimdark trends, but how did everyone determine that he was an Alan Moore stand-in? Like...what about him embodies Alan Moore?
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May 25, 2016 06:29
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CharlestheHammer posted:The problem is Alan Moore for all his faults never attempted that. Alan Moore just makes a convenient scapegoat. This shows that ultimately Dan and Johns have learned nothing. Dan Dreiberg is a bored man-child who can only get off when he's playing superhero. And, in Watchmen, that totally makes sense, you know, it's a book, in part, about the kind of relationship we have with punch man comics, and the sexual aspect of it warrants discussion. But it's the kind of thing that only fits in Watchmen, because of this total approach Moore and Gibbons have taken. Doing this in mainline DCU comics, as we've seen a lot, leads to lots of awkward comics about Batman's boners. Which, I don't think anyone reads Batman books for. I don't think Johns is using Moore as a scapegoat. I think his argument is that trying to do Watchmen in our goofy comics about underpants people is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. In Johnsian literalist terms, it's Doctor Manhattan trying to experiment by shaping a world and only creating misery. Moore is not to blame, it's just that his approach is entirely incompatible with the DCU. Geoff Johns' comics are not comparable to Watchmen. They do not do what Watchmen did, except for the graphic violence. It's not the same thing, Geoff Johns isn't trying to question anything, he just thinks people barfing blood at one another makes for a weird, cool visual that evokes the kind of gut feeling he wants people to experience.
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May 25, 2016 06:49
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Mandrakk isn't Alan Moore he doesn't even have a beard for gods sake
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May 25, 2016 07:23
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Still not sure whether the twist is the smartest dumb move or the dumbest smart move, but I really enjoyed Rebirth otherwise. The reunion scene between Wally and Barry especially was great.
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May 25, 2016 09:17
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They don't even do a whole lot with what everyone's bitching about. An homage and a cliffhanger. The rest of the stuff was good. It was mostly just going "ok here's this and this and this, you guys wanted that so you can have it" working towards the same narrative to set up a bunch of the new books. Might as well have been called "Wally West watches the universe right itself." Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 09:33 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 09:31
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ElNarez posted:Doing this in mainline DCU comics, as we've seen a lot, leads to lots of awkward comics about Batman's boners. Which, I don't think anyone reads Batman books for. I, for one, love Batman boners and am more likely to purchase a title if it features them.
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May 25, 2016 09:44
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BrianWilly posted:That's why I keep asking about specific examples of Geoff Johns' terrible decisions in the Nu52...not "bad writing," but any examples of tacky ideas, offensive fridgings, gratuitous grimdark, gruesome shock value, character regressions, character assassinations literal or otherwise...that kind of stuff...to back up this impression y'all seem to have that he hasn't changed his lovely writing tendencies in the last five years so clearly he won't change it for this, and I hope you understand that "Well, he's CCO. He runs everything so everything is his fault!" doesn't actually answer the question very well. I think the only substantial answer so far was ImpAtom's critique of NuShazam. The last few issues of Forever Evil. Fun and Wholesome!       
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