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Okay. Am I the only one who kinda loves this idea? It's like the train has driven off the rails, done a backflip, and flew into space. I wanna see the Justice League fight Dr. Manhattan. Heck, I'm practically more apprehensive about this Wally West thing. So we're getting the original white guy, in addition to the young black version who's been appearing?
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May 21, 2016 01:24
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Dexie posted:Teen Titans are Damien Wayne leading the team of Beast Boy, Raven, Starfire, and N52-Wally. I'ma roll with it. I'm embracing this. Bring it DC, clusterfuck me like it's 2005.
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May 21, 2016 01:43
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Yeah I'm sorry but as someone who thinks Watchmen is largely overrated, I'm just getting more and more pleased with every revelation. I absolutely, unreservedly want to see Superman punch Dr. Manhattan in the dick. ...Oh yeah, how're they gonna get around showing Dr. Manhattan's dick, anyway? Are they gonna decrotchify him?
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May 21, 2016 04:40
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Barry Convex posted:Johns and DiDio haven't stated it too explicitly, but reading between the lines of interviews with them this year, it's fairly clear that Rebirth is aimed primarily at lapsed DC readers.  (Only other thing that's kinda annoying me is this whole Wonder Woman having a secret twin brother thing. Not with the idea itself, but didn't we just go through this whole secret sibling drama thing with Azzarello...like, a lot? With a whole boatload of her secret brothers? I hope this isn't some huge aspect of Rucka's arc.)
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May 21, 2016 10:12
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But what was the most subversively grimdark Moore-esque thing Johns has done in the Nu52? Making Billy Batson an rear end in a top hat? I haven't given much poo poo about Johns' stuff lately but as far as I know most of it has been largely, simplistically superheroic.
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May 21, 2016 22:32
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No idea who that last guy is but the rest of it is just seems like straightforward comic book supervillainy which is about as un-Moore-like as you can get. Not exactly the same as Robin shooting an insane girl in the face if you ask me.
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May 21, 2016 22:46
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:The third army didnt need to show in detail the assimilation process DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Blackest Night wanted to be simplistically superheroic but was so over the top that it veered right past 'parody grimdark' and into 'just plain grimdark.'
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May 21, 2016 23:12
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X-O posted:I think after reading the various rundowns and articles the thing that surprises me most out of this is how much of a complete indictment of the New 52 this seems to be. I mean the book is basically telling you "The last five years of stories were bad" and that's either a big realization on their part or them just coming clean after knowing the whole time. Either way it feels they realize what the problem is and are at least attempting to address it. The problem is that, yeah, just because he criticizes some of the stories doesn't mean he isn't prone to making the same mistakes that he's criticizing, and long-time readers are pretty aware of that. Hence some of the responses here. I guess we'll just have to see if history repeats itself again. ...Except that he's not writing any more books after this...so, evidently we'll have to see if whoever DC picks to helm the big Dr. Manhattan punchathon will be able to deliver on what Johns is selling here. 
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May 21, 2016 23:44
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:So this is a thing
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May 23, 2016 03:44
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Say, what's happening with Bart Allen anyway?
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May 23, 2016 04:13
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If the Legion is coming back, that'd be a pretty reasonable spot to park them for a while.
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May 23, 2016 04:31
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Okay, on the one hand the Kon-El theory is so bonkers I'd love it to be true -- after all, if the Nu52 is the same as the pre-Flashpoint DCU, then why is there another pre-Flashpoint Superman? -- but on the other hand I don't think it can possibly, feasibly be true. Wasn't there already a Kon in the Nu52? What the making GBS threads gently caress
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May 23, 2016 08:16
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 Oh I think the previews are looking fantastic. There's nothing in them I don't like.Well, almost nothing. Khaji Da being magic again seems pointless and lame. Wonder Woman having, like, a fourth secret brother sounds like a story I never need to read again. Other than that, though...Wally West? Ted Kord? Ryan Choi? Gay gay Aqualad? The ceaseless flowing tears of Watchmen fans? The other shoe's got to drop at some point but for now, drat, I'm genuinely floored at how many good things are happening.
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May 24, 2016 10:57
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Again I'm going to ask: People keep saying "Johns has learned nothing! He's done the same bullshit again and again!" but what was the most bullshit thing he did in the Nu52? There are so many poorly-conceived, tacky, outright vile things about the Nu52 that I or anyone else here could name which drove readers sprinting in the opposite direction, but -- and I'm really racking my brain here -- I think maybe four or five percent of them, at a stretch, had anything to do with Johns? Meanwhile we're getting not-troubled-stereotype-Wally (while keeping the new Wally so he can grow into his own character), we're getting Ted Kord and Jaime Reyes together, we got a Superman who's married to Lois Lane, we have a gay character of color seemingly influenced by the well-received Young Justice show, we've got two pages devoted to Ryan Choi in an abject reversal of his disgusting murder that signaled the snowballing death knell of the old DC Universe. And there's still nearly sixty pages of the book that hasn't been revealed yet. It certainly seems to me like he has learned a lot. It's like he's checking off things one by one on the grand ol' "List of things to do in order to fix this horrid universe" whiteboard.
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May 24, 2016 22:04
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I don't know how anything in Justice League, no matter how bad, would've set the tone for stuff like Bar Torr or angry black Wally or the Harley Quinn suicide contest or rapist Amazons or anything like that, but okay sure let's blame Johns for those.
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May 24, 2016 22:23
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Toxxupation posted:Are you seriously wondering how the Chief Creative Officer for the entirety of New 52, and the one who architected the event leading into it, the one that allowed black Wally to exist in the first place, and the writer of the main book of the New 52 (if one considers JL the main book of the New 52), could be to blame for the bad creative direction of the New 52? And if we're blaming Johns' "creative direction" for somehow making the Nu52 suck, well, it certainly looks like his "creative direction" for DC Rebirth is pretty different, so why shouldn't that be a good thing? Dreqqus posted:If you've felt burned by Johns in the past, I don't at all see how any of this would convince you to give him another shot. Everything we've seen so far is Johnsian literalism taken to its absurd conclusion. Rebirth doesn't seem that different from any other Johns-led event/ crossover, save for that it seems like he's blaming Watchmen/Moore for his misinterpretation of the work. Like, everyone in this forum has been yakking for years about how DC should just get rid of the Nu52 and bring back their old universe, but now we don't think it's a good thing that it's literally happening? Why, because Johns is daring to impugn a thirty-year-old sacrosanct comic book with his filthy irresponsible literalism?
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May 24, 2016 23:56
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Edge & Christian posted:Yes, if your checklist is "I want Wally West and Ted Kord and ______ to be in comic books", congratulations, they're back in comic books. With any luck, the same people responsible for making them go away, the people who orchestrated Ted Kord's murder, the replacement of Wally West, the erasure of his wife and kids, etc. will totally do those characters right this time. All the while discounting the fact that there does seem to be a lot of creative team changes around a lot of books with DC Rebirth so, c'mon, I don't expect everything to be the exact same as it was at all. Heck, I can list the specific books and characters that look like it's gonna be improved from this; for one thing, the idea that Ted Kord will only appear in backgrounds when he's a main character in Giffen's new Blue Beetle book is ridiculous. Could these changes make things worse? Maybe; there's always gonna be bad writers and comics, but if that's the mindset then why read anything new at all? That's why I keep asking about specific examples of Geoff Johns' terrible decisions in the Nu52...not "bad writing," but any examples of tacky ideas, offensive fridgings, gratuitous grimdark, gruesome shock value, character regressions, character assassinations literal or otherwise...that kind of stuff...to back up this impression y'all seem to have that he hasn't changed his lovely writing tendencies in the last five years so clearly he won't change it for this, and I hope you understand that "Well, he's CCO. He runs everything so everything is his fault!" doesn't actually answer the question very well. I think the only substantial answer so far was ImpAtom's critique of NuShazam. Superstring posted:Like... yes? Unless you think the ends justifies the means and it doesn't matter how they get away from the Nu52 as long as they do it. Folks here seem to be expressing themselves pretty clearly why they are skeptical based on leaks/previews and past experience.
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May 25, 2016 03:46
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Wait...I remember all that stuff about Mandrakk representing grimdark trends, but how did everyone determine that he was an Alan Moore stand-in? Like...what about him embodies Alan Moore?
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May 25, 2016 06:29
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