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Should I stay or should I go? This poll is closed. |
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| Please stay |
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195 | 31.20% |
| Go away |
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136 | 21.76% |
| Who cares? |
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99 | 15.84% |
| gently caress you op, your soccer sucks and your tea tastes like poo poo! |
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195 | 31.20% |
| Total: | 625 votes | ||
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Probably not gonna happen.
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Jun 22, 2016 03:10
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Fojar38 posted:which is funny because the usa said "lol if you think that you'll get special treatment from us if you aren't part of the eu" and the leavers melted down Well, the US has long wanted a European political block ala the US. Just one that was more integrated and more sympathetic to listening to American interests. So leavers shouldn't be surprised. I'm not so sure about how well the EU is going to do even if they stay.
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Jun 22, 2016 03:21
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It's funny to see all of this fighting over the brexit, though, since it's transparently clear about which countries have any importan ce to the EU. No one seems to care about successes of Eurosceptic parties in countries like Italy! And in 2016 I think the people in power in the west, even those on the "left," tend to embrace a more neoliberal approach to things, often at the expense of poorer people.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:37
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City of Tampa posted:maybe it doesn't save them but it lets them gently caress up in their own way instead of the way that foreign neoliberal elites have dictated they should It really doesn't, though, since everything the UK would do after leaving would be dictated by outside powers, including the EU. Germany and France would also probably go out of their way to make things tough on the UK if they left. I think you could draw some comparisons to the socio-economic issues surrounding the dominance of London. And, if we're being honest, after both world wars, Western Europe as a whole can really only project meaningful power as a block. Kind of a problem when some countries clearly have more control and try to force consensus on certain issues, but that's how it is. Roylicious posted:Or you could take the middle path and demand that the Germans stop dictating the EU's economic policy and get some reform done rather than take your ball and go home where the roof is leaking and your ball will get stolen. Do you think that would seriously happen though? I don't really see it happening any time soon.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:45
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City of Tampa posted:if literally the worst (and most solidly backed up) part of the argument is that "Europe's gonna be real mad and is gonna hurt you on purpose" , I'm not sure that Brits should fall for that. It doesn't set a good precedent Might be the worst part of the argument, but it's true. Britain's agency is limited.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:06
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kikkelivelho posted:Like Turkey joining the EU and flooding civilized countries with religious fundamentalists is certainly a worrying prospect but considering the level of slyness we're dealing with here I don't think a potential brexit is going to stop them from coming. Turkey even has Germany licking their boots so what hope does Britain really have in this matter? Well, Germany did declare that the Armenian Genocide was, in fact, a genocide to the chagrin of Turkey. Doesn't really change much about the fact that Germany still readily capitulates to Turkey, especially recently, but it's at least something.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:12
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Tramadol Junkie posted:Rapefugees & Muslims are not human, they are an underdeveloped low-IQ sub-human specie that are still living in the 6th century like crude, vile, envious illiterates! While there are reasons to limit immigration or focus on domestic issues first and foremost, this sort of phrasing certainly doesn't help generate support for either of those things.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:17
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Tuxedo Gin posted:yeah the EU can't exactly afford to lose the UK I wouldn't say France is that bad yet!
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Jun 22, 2016 18:20
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Tramadol Junkie posted:No. I am an Alt-Right White Nationalist. Kind of lost that as an option well before the Europe was really a thing, let alone the EU.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:34
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Roylicious posted:Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Frisians, Danes, Normans, Franks? Picts? Maybe the Celts? Hell, even into the 18th century you had Brits being led, at times, by people born outside of Britain!
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Jun 22, 2016 18:37
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Roylicious posted:So if my fam immigrated from W Europe and I grew up in the USA I can call myself 'American' but if someone is brown and does the same they're actually 'Somethingelse-American' and lesser citizens? Nationalistic as it sounds, I think if people live in a country and respect said country's laws/culture and adhere to those they should be able to call themselves "X-nationality" without any qualifiers (unless, obviously, someone is asking about ancestry or something like that). Also, demanding that a country bend to narrow minded demands and be ruled by religious laws, old cultural practices (foreign or otherwise), or highly exclusionary policies based on race/gender/etc... is stupid and harmful to a country's continued success. Basically that sort of stuff is the opposite of what you'd want to do if you want to see a country succeed or if you say you're trying to actively assimilate with a country. Also, you may want to look at your country's history Tramadol Junkie. Not quite as insulated from outside influence as you seem to think. That sort of exceptionalism use to be one of the issues in English/British historiography. Being on an island did impact cultural and political exchanges, but it was not quite so closed off.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:57
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Laurenz posted:oh it worked alright, just not the way the murderer had hoped it would It does if remainers encouraged or allowed it to happen! apparently beaten. oh well
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Jun 22, 2016 20:03
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Laurenz posted:how could they have encouraged or allowed it if no one knew it was gonna happen? All joking aside, if politicians really wanted to get their way 1 person probably wouldn't be a big loss. Same with any collateral damage. I mean, we have enough historical and recent examples of wealthy/politically powerful people doing nasty stuff to get their way. Although this sounds more like an unstable man clinging to ideology that did this politically motivated crime because the opportunity presented itself. CharlestonJew posted:wow I thought America was the only country with crazy crisis actor conspiracy people And those people are everywhere. Look around the web and you'll find lots of them.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:12
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Rutibex posted:or when Napoleon came to power, Britain should have just listened to the solid economic arguments for joining the Continental System To be fair, those were different times and the world worked quite differently in each, even compared to each other let alone the 21st century. This debate seems pretty acrimonious but, in all honesty, nothing will probably happen and the UK will remain in the EU.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:22
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jBrereton posted:It literally did this though. To be fair, for a good chunk of his Charles' reign the first act of supremacy was still in place in England. Towards the very end of his reign it would've been repealed by Mary.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:34
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It's actually kind of interesting to see how Europeans defined notions of whiteness when racialist thinking was in its infancy during the 17th century, especially in regards to East Asians. Culture and socio-economic stand continue to play roles in how we define concepts like race today.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:25
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mr_cramalldees posted:There definitely wasn't an overwhelming majority of any particular ethnic group that were considered citizens at the time of the US's founding. While that's not necessarily wrong, it doesn't invalidate the sentiment of the post. American national identity isn't based around the same ethno-nationalism which blew up in Europe during the latter half of the 18th and then the 19th centuries. That's not to say there ethno-nationalism doesn't exist in the US though.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:31
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kikkelivelho posted:You've already stated you're an Islamophobe, but may I ask what your opinion is on non-white European immigrants like italians or latvians? Aren't Italians and Latvians white though?
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Jun 22, 2016 21:36
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Rutibex posted:yeah it actually is! Adding to the above sentiments, civic nationalism has always had more weight in the US. That there were different European groups settling, for example, would've made ethnic nationalism a hard sell to some, especially considering that not all Europeans were even treated with the same level of respect in American society. That's not to say there weren't racist or xenophobic elements underlying, or indeed disrupting, the general shape American identity took, but it also doesn't mean that we were founded on ethno-nationalism.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:44
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Darth123123 posted:This is so gay I will admit the wording's a bit iffy in that one, but the point in it stands. A ILL BREAKFAST posted:isnt this thing non-binding anyway? like the government can just be like "nah... nah" It is non-binding and I do believe that you're right about the potential govt. response.
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Jun 22, 2016 23:37
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dreezy posted:what is the EU stance on hentai? Francois Hollande is all for it.
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Jun 23, 2016 18:00
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it appears to be godlike production. i use to know a few people that used it, but they left a while back. beaten again.
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Jun 23, 2016 18:37
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RobattoJesus posted:Sure working class British people are getting hosed in the rear end, but lol if I care about them because they're all backwards racists who don't understand progress. That seems to be an increasingly common sentiment regarding lots of poor people nowadays. Especially in the US. GORDON posted:Maybe if progress stopped loving them in the rear end they'd be more accepting of it. And this definitely won't happen. Only gonna get worse for em.
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Jun 23, 2016 21:46
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At this point it seems like remain is going to win, so I don't see the point in clamoring for numbers.
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Jun 23, 2016 22:16
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coffeetable posted:because it's going to be 60% remain and put this bullshit to bed for a generation That seems a little triumphant, especially considering the UK and EU still have a boatload of problems that don't seem to have really easy fixes.
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Jun 23, 2016 22:22
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RobattoJesus posted:The best thing about the pound cratering is that all the rich dudes who bought up half of London as investments are now hosed. That would be pretty funny.
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Jun 24, 2016 04:39
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I think more people are emphatically against Trump than were against the brexit. Although 2016 is a monster of a year for social, economic, and political developments!
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Jun 24, 2016 04:58
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It's easy to laugh at or blame the under educated for voting to leave, but doesn't that really just reflect a failure on the part of the British state? Someone posted earlier in the thread stats showing a trend of academic underachievement among native-born Brits, which might indicate something in Britain hadn't been working as intended.
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Jun 24, 2016 05:30
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McNutty posted:Obviously. Education being a state issue it is entirely Britain's fault. But this is the multi-layered result of diminishing resources being siphoned to the already well to do. That's what I mean though. A lot of the critics of the Brexit are focusing on the leave voters rather than zeroing in on what I would think is the real culprit behind Britain turning to poo poo over these past decades - an establishment that only serves the wealthy. It's sort of disingenuous to harp on about not giving into the ignorance of the leave campaign when this bed was basically made by the British themselves. Even the fact that London is so important and different from the other parts of England is telling in some ways - a city rising at the expense of the country.
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Jun 24, 2016 05:37
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Prettz posted:if your brain sucks I have no pity that attitude will probably make stuff like this more common
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Jun 24, 2016 05:46
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McNutty posted:This isn't a particularly British issue though. There is a global wealth disparity crisis that will never be solved. We as a species will fail owning to this issue. Oh certainly, and I didn't mean to imply it was a British issue. Just look at how common among US "progressives/leftists" this sort of attitude is. Economic issues are increasingly sidelined and issues which need addressing fester.
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Jun 24, 2016 05:51
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Edgar posted:Will this finally be the end of the queen? I watched the new ID4 movie and I learned queens are bad! It would be funny if brexiters went after the royals next.
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Jun 24, 2016 05:58
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C-SPAN Caller posted:No true leftist I think Bernie was probably closer to a real leftist/progressive than most established Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, even if he wasn't a "real" socialist. I'll still probably drop a vote down for him or maybe Jill Stein just because I can't see myself voting for Clinton.
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Jun 24, 2016 14:23
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C-SPAN Caller posted:He was diet socialism which is way loving better than neoliberalism That's a nice way of putting it. Shame that the maintstream American left has become so dominated by neoliberal "progressives"
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Jun 24, 2016 14:25
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Germstore posted:maybe the left should find a second strategy to use when yelling "racism!" over and over again while flailing on the ground fails. just a tip. Could try being more proactive in addressing the social, economic and educational issues that allow xenophobic or reactionary beliefs to take hold rather than just condescending people out of hand.
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Jun 24, 2016 15:37
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Simstim posted:I like how finance firms can treat peoples' pensions like a political football and this is not at all troubling or foreboding. Gauging people's responses, you're not alone in thinking this is fine!
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Jun 24, 2016 15:57
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Not only is the argument that "Hispanics like working on farms more and are thus better suited to it" more than a little racist, it also ignores the fact that, for a relatively long time, blue collar labor in the US has been devalued for a number of reasons (such as the very real trend of deindustrialization, to say nothing of perceptions of success and occupation-type). There are lots of factors involved in why Americans don't want to work back breaking blue collar jobs for a pittance that go beyond "laziness" and it's dishonest to say otherwise. Also fits the narrative of big business quite nicely. 2016, for some reason, has made tons of these issues come to the for and it seems like lots of people are growing dissatisfied with the established order in a number of western nations. Will be interesting to see where it goes!
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Jun 24, 2016 18:36
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Ape Fist posted:No they're all threatening to move here, to Ireland. Again. Shouldn't they be threatening to move to the continent?
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Jun 24, 2016 18:40
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Jimlit posted:I'm sorry why should people that have adapted to a modern job market be punished for people that did not. The fact there are a poo poo load of good jobs going to h-b1 holders due to a lack of qualified applicants speaks volumes. It's harder to adapt if you come from poverty stricken area where jobs once were and are no longer, with less than stellar education supporting you, and a bunch of other factors working against you, like the fact that blue collar labor is increasingly outsourced or given to underpaid immigrants or automated. The economy can change at a very rapid pace and society may not all keep up with developments at an equal pace. What are the people, many older and some younger, that can't keep up supposed to do? At least politically, they turn to the parties, or candidates, that do a better job of reaching out to them in hopes that they may help them return to "good old days." The success of anti-immigration rhetoric, in that regard, is emblematic of a larger issue of the modern left to actually speak to the concerns of these people and why the right, and now far right, seemingly can - despite the fact that many righwingers don't really care about blue collar workers of any ethnicity. (just look at a lot of Republicans in the US). It also doesn't change the fact that what was said about "Hispanics" being die-hard farm work lovers came off as a bit racist. And, one last point, I think addressing a lot of these larger economic imbalances/issues would actually benefit immigrants as well, since it would help defang the rhetoric - at least to an extent - by improving stability for people outside the upper middle class and above. Fire Barrel fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 19:35
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Also, politically speaking, I always thought VICE tried to bill itself as more anti-establishment (even if that's not so much the case). Perhaps that post's wording didn't convey the documentary's point well enough, since that sounds like it might be a bit too oblivious a thing even for vice.hemophilia posted:Poland makes better games than the UK. gently caress the UK, Poland is cool. Poland's recent track record is certainly up that compared to the UK!
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Jun 24, 2016 19:41
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