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Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Cardiac posted:

Yeah, and it is going to be interesting whether our political elite will learn anything from Brexit and Trump winning.
There is an obvious discrepancy between them (for many reasons) and the so-called silent majority.
It's all an effect of neglecting the school for so long. Kids aren't taught fact checking and critical thinking any more, which has given us the fact-resistant generation who only trusts whatever their echo chamber on Facebook says. No matter how many actual truths you shove in their faces they'll ignore it if it doesn't match up with their preconceived world view.

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Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Zudgemud posted:

What we first need to do is making voting mandatory with fines handed out to people who neglect their civic duty, because people not voting due to laziness just puts democracy in the bin.
Problem with mandatory voting is that people who have no opinion will just roll a die to pick something, or troll vote or whatever.

I prefer the carrot method to the stick method, come up with some sort of reward or benefit for voting. Also change the voting system so that it feels more worthwhile to vote (Single Transferable Vote thanks) so you can vote for the party that actually aligns with your interests rather than having to choose the lesser evil.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Cardiac posted:

Since young people don't really vote (see Brexit) but old ones do, I guess we should blame the schools in the 60-80s then?
It's gone on for a long time. I went to school in the 80s and it in retrospect it was pretty bad in terms of learning actual useful skills like finding and filtering information instead of just absorbing it without question.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

I have relatives in Sjöbo, I agree with the special bonus point for that town.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Plättar är ju bara pannkakor som krympt i tvätten.

e: Sorry forgot this was scandipol and not skandinavientråden.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

There's also the whole thing where the main parties (in Sweden and elsewhere) are just perceived as a grey slurry around the center of the political spectrum nowadays and people feel it doesn't matter what you vote for because nothing really changes anyway, at least not for the better. I don't agree, but I get this opinion from a lot of people who don't have the time/interest to dig deeper into politics. Remember that for a lot of people the only political point they care about are "Do I personally get more money and/or better service?" and for pretty much every party the answer currently is "no".

SD and other parties using populist rhethorics are perceived as different, and they provide the "obvious, simple and wrong" answer that if we just magic the refugees away then everything will be OK again. If we can throw the refugees and immigrants out then the unprofitable steel and paper mills in the north will reopen and be profitable again, the brain-drained rural towns will suddenly attract investors and employers, hospitals and schools will have all the doctors, nurses and teachers they need and there will be snow for christmas.

e:

Wild Horses posted:

Everyone just handled the problem with SD so badly, they seem like a polished up outsider with some good policies for many people, and many just ignore every scandal because it's coming from media and similar. poo poo like nazi jokes doesn't matter.
This too. Demonising SD and their voters hasn't done anything but make their voters double down because they see it as meaning the established parties are scared, which means they're hiding the truth. Pointing out the fallacies of SD's policies doesn't help either, because as previously mentioned the average voter just doesn't care about the finer points.

Collateral Damage fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Nov 16, 2016

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Seems like Trump getting elected has been a wakeup call in Sweden. This is pretty much the point I made earlier about not demonising SD voters.

http://asikt.dn.se/asikt/debatt/forlat-sd-valjare-jag-har-varit-dum/

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/lofven-vi-har-misslyckats-med-att-fanga-manniskors-oro/

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

MiddleOne posted:

Reminds me of a trashy post-apocalypse novel (what if a magical virus ate all electrical circuits) I read couple of years ago where Swedish society eventually reforms into coastal castle-towns to protect themselves from danish raids. :sweden:
Stjärnklart. A good book. And not just danish raids, but the entire country splits into little fiefdoms warring between each other over the last remaining resources. I really liked the small side stories of personal tragedies as a result of the complete collapse of technology.

The second and third books in the series kind of go off the deep end, but they're entertaining nonetheless.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Tragic news from Denmark.



Please keep us in your hearts in these trying times.
Dagens i-landsproblem.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

lilljonas posted:

Make Sweden Great Again

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Pizza med lutfisk, isterband och kroppkaka.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

evilmiera posted:

Tyvärr, det enda som bör ligga på en pizza är ananas och skinka.
Måste vara torra pizzor du äter utan tomatsås och ost.

e: Även saker ingen någonsin sagt: "Den här tomatsåsen har för mycket vitlök"

Collateral Damage fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Nov 26, 2016

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Kent Sopproth

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Cardiac posted:

Malmö was originally built on a swamp that was drained. Apparently drain the swamp didn't work.
Well the king said it was daft to build a city on a swamp, but I built it all the same. Just to show him! It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third one! That burned down, fell over then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up!

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Ungdomsförbunden (oavsett färg) är det starkaste argumentet för att höja rösträttsåldern.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Nice to meet you.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

MiddleOne posted:

"and then we pulled hundreds of billions out of a hat"
...which is basically the one sentence summary of populism.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

The political youth organisations in Sweden are universally pants-on-head retarded regardless of which party they belong to.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

The funniest thing is that C was traditionally the rural party, but has recently been the party putting forward the best ideas for expanding Stockholm. (Expanding the city core and building proper enclosed blocks with mixed commercial/residential instead of farting out a few residential monoliths here or there)

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Beeswax posted:

Despite often being painted as some sort of omnipotent manipulative cabal which controlled Sweden for most of the 20th century, Socialdemokraterna are complete bumbling idiots in most regards when it comes to playing the media and seizing any sort of narrative initiative.
I think S are partly victims of their own success. They've been in charge for so long that they take their voter base for granted. It's only recently they've seen themselves at risk of becoming a minority party and they don't know how to handle it.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

*wee'd

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Kurtofan posted:

my thoughts to all the swedes for the tragic event of yesterday

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlJbsjeLBOg

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

I think Latvia and Lithuania are in line before Norway. And that will be the true test for NATO. Will NATO decide that it's worth risking a nuclear exchange with Russia over the baltic states?

If they don't, then NATO is just a paper tiger.
If they do, welp.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Ligur posted:

edit: where's the Trump smiley?
:sad:
;sad;

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

The entire island has 330 thousand people, less than half of what Copenhagen, Oslo and Stockholm each have in their city proper alone. Accidental incest is a real problem, to the point where some clever person developed a smartphone app that checks how far separated you are from the person you're hitting on and if it's okay to bang him/her.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Kan vi gå tillbaka till att diskutera vad som är ok att ha på pizza? Det var ett intressantare ämne.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

It's a measure to get rid of some of the nastier chemicals used in electronics such as brominated flame retardants. Those are already limited by RoHS, so I doubt this will have much impact.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Can we make this the thread icon?

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Cardiac posted:

3.5 million for a 1-room. Sucks to be in Stockholm.
That is literally the same price we paid (well, borrowed) for a decent sized house within 40 min commuting distance of central Copenhagen.
The whole thing is like a pyramid scheme, in that if you didn't get in at the start, you are going to be so hosed when the crash hits.
I live in a 1-room, 29m2 apartment which is valued at about 3 million now. Anywhere else in the country you get a pretty big mansion or farmhouse for that money. Stockholm is stupid.

evil_bunnY posted:

You can offer all the tax incentives you want (but really you loving shouldn't), unless more poo poo gets built everyone's going to be bidding on the same loving real estate.
Amen.

I hate it when people go on about how if we just change regulation or taxation in this or that way then we will solve the housing crisis. Changing a few numbers here and there won't magically make more apartments appear, and the root of the problem is that we have X amount of houses/apartments within reasonable commuting distance from the city, and Y amount of people who work (or are looking to work) in the city and need to live within a reasonable commuting distance.

The only way to to fix the problem is to either make Stockholm unattractive to employers (not a very good solution) or build more housing until X is larger than Y.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Nice piece of fish posted:

were to happen housing prices would either stagnate or plummet. This causes coronary unrest for all these fuckers, because housing is a pretty big industry, and a lot of people have been making a very pretty penny on this at the expense of immigrants, poors and young people. Seriously, housing is HUGE and the knock-on effects of population placement etc. is also very very significant to both the private and national economy. Nobody wants to be the guy to burst the bubble, so everyone is playing a communal game of the tragedy of the commons.

They don't have a long term plan because they don't want a long term plan. If you propose or implement one, you're the guy they go to when it inevitably goes sour.
Exactly this. You can't fix the housing market without stepping on some pretty rich toes. People who buy houses and condos have come to expect that they will increase in value and they'll be able to sell at a profit, and rocking that boat is political suicide.

That's why we only get the useless proposals for changes in regulation, where none of them will actually affect people who already own their properties and only serve to drive prices up higher.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Cerebral Bore posted:

You should just start another Miljonprogrammet and avoid the mistakes of the last one.
Copy-paste Vasastan onto Gärdet.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Cardiac posted:

Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time...... :suicide:
City 67 seemed like a good idea at the time too. Fortunately that one was shitcanned before it managed to ruin too much of Stockholm.

quote:

Att lyfta upp gatans nivå över Drottninggatan och Vasagatan samt breddningen av den samma innebar att all bebyggelse längs gatan måste rivas och skulle ersättas med ett pärlband av parkeringshus på sydsidan och fem tjocka punkthus på norra sidan.
:barf:

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Both Gärdet and Norra Djurgården are part of the same problem - Nationalstadsparken. 2700 hectares of land right up against the edge of the city sitting unused and unbuildable because the king said so.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kungliga_nationalstadsparken

Threadkiller Dog posted:

Gärdet delenda est

Collateral Damage fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Mar 17, 2017

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

von Braun posted:

When was there a festival there last? I only know Kentfest
Most festivals I know of are held at Stora Skuggan.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

That is the area we're talking about, Gärdet. Technically it's a much larger area which is partially developed already, but when people say Gärdet they usually just mean the huge emtpy field.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Cardiac posted:

So every empty place should be buildings then?
Looks at Central Park and Hyde Park.
Nationalstadsparken is as said 2700 hectares. Stockholm inner city ("innanför tullarna") is just over 1500 hectares total. Parks are important, but almost a 2:1 ratio of park:city is a bit excessive.

Central park is 315 hectares and Hyde Park is 145 hectares by the way.

Nobody's talking about building over Humlegården, Vasaparken or Observatorielunden, all of which are large parks in the middle of the city. Or Hagaparken which incidentally is 144 hectares, almost the same size as Hyde Park.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Retarded Goatee posted:

Åke Jävel is a peer reviewed quality source.
More reliable than most other sources at least.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

Is there a chance that KD stays relevant after 2018?

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Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

I think their problem is that their core voters are gradually dying of old age and they're not exactly a party that attracts new voters.

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