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I'll be honest, I don't understand why people vote for parties that don't have Pelle in them. He and Yanis Varoufakis were definitely my Folkemøde highlights.
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Jul 7, 2018 05:17
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SplitSoul posted:I can understand why people vote for parties with Pelle in them, but definitely not because of him. Nevermind that he's empirically wrong about literally every single point in the plastic nationalist post and apparently doesn't extend his distaste for "identity politics" to Danishness, he's one of the driving forces behind the party turning 1970s Social Democrat (his dream is to revive ØD) and mostly abandoning extraparliamentary work. He also co-authored a feminism program that claimed social control was an exclusively "ethnic" problem and he's generally just dishonest and cowardly when engaging in debate, especially when it's with fellow party members that won't toe the line—I've seen it happen enough times to ignore it. Dangit, I didn't know anything about the guy until I saw him at Folkemødet and he only had to tear down people like Rasmus Jarlov. I only really brought him up because I was sure someone here would have the scoop on his baggage.  Are there any prominent politicians that don't have loads of baggage? I feel like everyone is garbage when you know enough about them. I just want to root for cool individuals. I don't follow Danish politics that closely because I've never been given a reason to vote for anything to the right of Ø, and it's exhausting to learn that everyone is poo poo. Baudolino posted:Danskene er inne på noe med obligatorisk barnehage. Men å kun kreve det for etniske minoriterer blir kontraproduktivt, det kommer til å produsere ekstremt mye motvilje og ekstremisme. Ingen liker å bli uthengt. Mandatory kindergarten is a fine idea in a vacuum (and we have mandatory schooling from the age of 6, I think), but mandatory indoctrination school for 1-year-olds is very far from that.
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Jul 10, 2018 16:26
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Rust Martialis posted:Doesn't seem too bad in København, but this is my first full summer in Denmark It's not unusual to see a stopped escalator, but I've never come across any active repairs. I dunno if they have night contractors working on them or they just need someone to go press a button or mess with some wiring real quick.
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Jul 14, 2018 01:30
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Conceptually or because the name happily represents the exact opposite of its function?
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Jul 21, 2018 08:42
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Potrzebie posted:Porque no los dos? Currently yes, but in an actual leftist government (fat chance with Mette Frederiksen somehow being the big hope of the left), it could theoretically work towards helping at-risk youths or socially isolated adults. Rust Martialis posted:I'm losing a lot of my initial enthusiasm about working towards Danish citizenship. Done Module 3 (of 5) of DU Level 3 and wondering why I bother learning Danish if the country is run by parties I will never support. Are you an EU citizen? Most non-EU natives I've met who live in Denmark have a Swedish citizenship or are living in Malmö until they can get one. It's apparently much less of a hassle than dealing with all the bullshit requirements and an administration that actively wants you to fail. E: Well, SD are technically nativists, but they do have widespread support from Sweden's growing nazi demographic.
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Jul 21, 2018 20:33
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I saw a bus ad the other day that had Mette Frederiksens mug and the message "Let's stop talking about immigration. We're all in agreement on that front," and some call to talk about the climate and welfare and all that junk. I think it's time to start protesting. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Jul 22, 2018 |
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Jul 22, 2018 11:18
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Cardiac posted:Obviously not, which is my point. Out of sheer academic curiosity, what's your definition of "racist" and to what rough percentage of the adult population would you say it applies? Because all your numbers are saying is that at minimum 20% of voting Swedes are racist and have no problem with it.
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Jul 22, 2018 15:55
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Mercrom posted:saying 20% of swedes are racist is just meaningless virtue signaling. it might technically be that many or more but the actual problem is generic xenophobia and idealism. people can 100% believe in lockean tabula rasa poo poo but still think of culture as simply a virus passed down the generations Mercrom posted:the incredibly inefficient nature of human communication combined with the intense bias present in political discussion means its almost all basically semantics, sorry to tell you I'll be honest, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here. We shouldn't refer to racists as racists because they respond poorly to it? This isn't a public debate, or even a casual conversation among friends. If Cardiac was going to peace out because people resent his racist views, he'd have left this thread long ago.
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Jul 22, 2018 20:37
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mila kunis posted:Outsider here, why is so much of european politics so heavily focused on migrants right now? What percentage of the population do they form in scandinavia, and isn't the constant focus on them drowning out discussion on economic issues? It's something like 5% in reality, but you'd think it was at least 30 going by public discourse. It's at least in part due to the rise in populist and nativist parties. The center parties see racist rhetoric scoring tons of votes, and want to get a slice of that cake. And apparently doing so garners more votes than it costs them, so they keep it up. Plus it's a handy fall-back for issues you'd rather not talk about, like how the nativist and liberal parties in Denmark have a climate policy that boils down to "ignore it, it'll fix itself eventually."
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Jul 28, 2018 10:54
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mila kunis posted:By "we" you mean the US? It's unfair to blame most european countries for that. Oh no, evening ignoring our history of colonialism, Europe has a lot of fingers in those pies, and Denmark at least happily joined the Coalition of the Willing. There was a whole inquiry into our previous liberal government all the shady things happening behind the scenes, but then we got a new liberal government which summarily shut it down and banned it from releasing any of its findings. It kind of fell by the wayside because our current liberal government is also relly lovely, but it's a thing people are still pissed about. And I think most people who vote for those parties have little to no actual interaction with immigrants. They just hear a couple news stories about a gas station being held up by a brown person in a nearby town, and the shootouts between gangs in Copenhagen or Malmö or Oslo, and it's not like voting for the actively racist parties will hurt anyone they know. My grandma is terrified of all her grandkids living in Copenhagen, because she only goes there like for like a day every two years, but she keeps seeing on the news how people are always getting shot and beat up in the streets. The vast majority of Danish muslims live in Copenhagen, and that's also the one place that overwhelmingly votes for the actual socialist parties. V. Illych L. posted:so e.g sweden is absolved of responsibility re the current mess given their relative lack of colonial history and non-participation in recent adventures? It's obviously not the only reason we should help refugees, but I don't think ignoring it will help anyone. Is that really what public discourse is focusing on? I joined Ø because of their message that Denmark can afford to ensure a comfortable living for everyone who resides here, and we currently aren't. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Jul 28, 2018 |
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Jul 28, 2018 12:33
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If you must read cardiac posts, it helps to have a proper mental image of the man behind them. I envision this guy, personally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pfyzzvb7hg&t=111s I don't think the video will poison your recommendations, but watch at your own risk.
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Jul 28, 2018 18:14
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Zudgemud posted:How is the law formulated? Can one go around with a niqab with transparent face cover without breaking the law and will you also get fined for wearing a Nixon mask or a silicone prosthetics makeup? There's a ton of exemptions for "legitimate" reasons to cover your face, like it's cold out, you're at a political protest, it's Halloween, or what have you. You could theoretically get busted if an officer is pissed off at you for unrelated reasons, but in practice it only targets Muslim women. It also explicitly states that the police can't force you to remove your covering for any reason, and just fine you and tell you not to do it again, but, well, you know how difficult high stress situations are for police officers, and gang members are shooting people in the streets 24/7 so I'm sure we'll see a couple of snap decisions get swept under the rug before long.
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Aug 4, 2018 01:21
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There were people wearing burqas protesting the law as it was implemented, and the police released a statement that no one was going to get arrested or fined for wearing a protest burqa. On the grounds that making a political statement is a legitimate enough reason to wear a face covering. I guess it's only as long as you're doing the right kind of protest.
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Aug 4, 2018 10:01
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It’s been a fascinating, if horrible, process to follow because it’s fhe latest in a line of lovely laws passed by supposedly wildly disparate parties, ranging from the Social Democrats (the largest party of the leftist block, even though their supposedl leftism is an open joke) to the Danish People’s Party (openly racist nativists, and fastest growing party). The liberals had spokespeople saying it was definitely just a masking ban meant to foster openness and honesty in society, while the nativists, social democrats and libertarians all argued that the law was meant to help Muslim women because now their husbands couldn’t force them to wear burqas and niqabs, with various degrees of token concessions toward the masking ban narrative. The nativists are also gunning for Denmark withdrawing from the ECHR entirely, and all those parties seem to be warming up to the idea.
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Aug 4, 2018 21:25
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Lima posted:The right wing populists poached a lot of SD's voters. In response SD tried to catch up in "dey dook ah jerbs" arguments and are at times doubling down. I'm not sure what happened internally at that point, since a lot of prominent politicians in the party (including Mette Frederiksen, who is probably gonna be our next Prime Minister) turned out to be extremely comfortable with open, unconstitutional, ECHR-defying racism, but that's definitely what happened from the outside. Lima posted:Biggest party per electorate zone from the last election (2015): Huh, what's district 13 on there? Østerbro? I guess the votes hadn't been fully tallied when I last checked the electoral map, because I remember the Redgreens (the leftmost major party) having a bigger presence.
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Aug 5, 2018 00:20
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DPP is also ostensibly the conservative welfare party, and a lot of old people claim to vote for them because they promise to keep the hospitals and libraries open while fighting the construction of windmills and putting falaffel in school lunches and whatever weird things old people care about. That they only ever appear in right-wing coalitions and always "compromise" with the liberals to gut the public sector in return for increasingly restrictive immigration and citizenship regulations doesn't seem to phase their voters. That social democrats have floated the idea of inviting them into a red coaltion, which would be... a first. Of the socialist parties, the The Red-Greens have explicitly stated that they'd refuse to be part of such a coalition, but the Socialist People's Party are probably mercenary enough to go along with it. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Aug 5, 2018 |
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Aug 5, 2018 10:14
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I'm pretty sure we both were suggesting that DPP stopped caring about welfare a long time ago, and are only keeping up the pretense because the pretense is all they need to garner votes. Not entirely unlike the Social Democrats in that regard. It's a nice thing to hope for, but it's a flimsy hope given the record of those parties, and it's extremely depressing that they're supposedly the most left-leaning coalition we can muster after decades of watching public services get gutted over and over.
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Aug 5, 2018 12:16
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SplitSoul posted:Compromise? They proposed a de facto abolition of striking rights during the whole Vejlegården controversy, Thulesen even ate there to show his support for union busting. Their voters don't care, because racism is more important and once the mass deportations start there'll finally be enough money to properly staff public nursing homes, and Løhde won't have to have the "difficult" elderly moved out of view during photo ops anymore. Probably. I think you read that post in an entirely too charitable tone. They care about elder care and public welfare about as deeply as UKIP cared about the NHS.
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Aug 5, 2018 15:07
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Yeah, an apolitical outsider is definitely the most ideal president, so long as his beliefs just happen to align entirely with my own. If only there was some way to know how that'd work in real life. I'm assuming the show is about an Enlightened Centrist who turns out to be more moral and compassionate than either party while simultaneously straddling the rickety middle road between corporatists and crypto-fascists? SplitSoul posted:Some French-Algerian dude is going to pay all the fines for niqabis as he has done elsewhere, so now they want to help the poor oppressed women by throwing them in literal jail rather than their alleged fabric-based one. Can you get psychosis from cognitive dissonance? Dude owns, parties suck.
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Aug 7, 2018 18:49
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Quoted Tweet: "Genetically contingent cultural differences". Nice nazi party you're planning to put into power, Sweden. Followup: There's surprisingly little uproar from the Sweden democrats going on Urix and claiming that people are born with a "cultural essence". It is gibberish, but it's racist gibberish with which vast demographic swathes are unsettlingly comfortable.
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Aug 18, 2018 11:43
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I've no idea what the original quote is (and google doesn't turn up anything using that exact phrasing), but that is very definitely what it says. It sounds like the kind of thing you say behind closed doors long enough to internalize it, but is incredibly damning when anyone who's not in your bubble hears it. I attended a local debate a couple years back when a DF member ended up cornered, and she ended up repeatedly comparing trying to maintain your culture in a foreign country to a Brit coming to the mainland and insisting on driving on the left side of the road. She clearly was not used to this being anything less than an instant argument-winner.
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Aug 18, 2018 14:17
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Alhazred posted:Urix is a norwegian tv show that discuss foreign politics, they interviewed a guy from SD last week: Cheers. I miss the days where nativists weren't comfortable enough to openly espouse nazi rhetoric, and they actually got in trouble for being cool with it when they let the mask slip. THE BAR posted:S, DF and K all seem to think, that being willing to shake hands should be mandatory when applying for citizenship. Ugh.
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Aug 19, 2018 11:35
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Jesus loving Christ, that is not a point on which you should double down. What the hell? I'm very sorry for your experiences in Denmark, Rust. My entire social circle is basically young academics, and we're all extremely disillusioned with our current government and whatever the hell the social democrats think they're doing. We've attended several rallies against the legislation being passed by the current government, but I have no idea how to effect real change.
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Aug 20, 2018 00:03
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I've recently had a friend get called a feminazi by a DF member for suggesting that Denmark doesn't have perfect gender equality. It's a thing that's happening, and the people doing it are currently running the country. The supposed major leftist party has gone full nativist and they still stand to be the head of our next government. If that isn't indicative of Denmark as a whole letting the mask slip, I don't know what is.
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Aug 20, 2018 11:13
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It's actually real easy to deal with getting language policed if you apologize first instead of doubling down and getting really defensive before giving a lovely non-apology. We all like using harsh language to denigrate the people that do monstrous things, but when you're using something like dicksucker as an insult, you're being homophobic/sexist/etc. The distinction and context don't really matter. "Yeah, sorry, point taken" is an incredibly easy thing to say which doesn't devalue your point in any way or make people think less of you. You should try it sometime. I've never been cannibalized by the left, and I have plenty of friends who are radical even by my standards.
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Aug 20, 2018 17:11
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I hate to have to tell you this, but the man is right and the reaction here is a pretty damning indictment of Scandinavian (or at least Danish) culture. We all think we're hot poo poo because we're known to be open and accepting, but we cannot deal with people telling us that our language and actions are hurting people. It's really easy to not be homophobic if you're open to the idea that you might hurt someone without intending to, and that that's ok.
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Aug 21, 2018 09:41
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By all means, let's retread the derail, or better yet, have a derail about the derail. I'm sure it'll end well.
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Aug 25, 2018 11:44
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You're responding to a Cardiac post, friend.
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Aug 27, 2018 13:08
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White Rock posted:There is a sizable contingency if LGBT people concered. In france homesexuals support Le Pen to a large extent. I don’t know what the Swedish left is like, but here in Denmark, what remains of the actual left has continuously criticized the government for their draconian garbage integration policy and pushed for having one that actually has integration as an end goal.
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Sep 2, 2018 12:42
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White Rock posted:I've never misunderstood FI and V's intention, and it's still really lovely optics. Again, a manifestation of "all men rape" after a paralyzed woman gets gang raped. Read that out loud. How does that look in the press? How easily can't the extreme right spin this too "V + FI defends rapists?". If you can't see how this looks, your out of touch. How did you, and your working class buddies who were forced into nazism by the left, respond to the manifestation by other parties that “all Muslims rape” after a paralyzed woman was gang raped? Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Sep 2, 2018 |
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Sep 2, 2018 14:48
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If the average person is incredibly comfortable with racism and terrified that they'll commit rape without an extremely lenient definition of consent, the average person has a problem. Giving these views a platform and legitimacy is not a solution, as is plainly evidenced by the rapist racist who is currently in charge of the world's largest cultural and economic nation. People need to be told that racism and rape culture are bad things, how they are personally contributing to them, and what they can do to become less lovely. You can reach most grown adults without leaving that framework, and the ones that make entire cultural movements built on fighting against race and gender equality can and should be left in a ditch without a platform to spread their views.
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Sep 2, 2018 18:58
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White Rock posted:And that orange haired dipshit won, despite all the "de platforming" that was done (he was no darling to the media, that's for sure.). It's a tactic that has accomplished nothing. I don't know why you think 24/7 news coverage across every conceivable medium constitutes deplatforming, let alone the tired news tropes of needing both sides of the story and focusing coverage on whatever is more controversial. If the main thing Swedish voters care about is brown people being scary, your message should at the very least be that brown people aren't scary, if you're scared that expressing any more basic human decency will cost you votes. If your message is that, yes, brown people are scary, and you'll do your best to cull them and keep them from hurting your innocent white children, the only logical endpoint is straight up ethnic cleansing. There is no magical number of immigrants that will suddenly stop people from being racist against them. That strategy only works if you want to be the full-on nazi flavored nativist party, because a milquetoast platform of humoring racism, but not quite so much racism will only bleed voters to the more nativist parties. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Sep 2, 2018 |
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Sep 2, 2018 21:00
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White Rock posted:And you have to confront the real issues of immigration, because people care. Biggest issue in swedish election. You need a better story then "there is no negative consequences of immigration worth talking about". Alright, so what are these negative consequences of immigration that are worth talking about? Because the only concrete thing you've brought up is how we need to acknowledge that brown people are inherently rapey and scary, which is a complete non-starter if you want to implement any policies that aren't just stepping stones towards going full-on ethnostate, even if we treat talking from a point of morality as a losing proposition.
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Sep 4, 2018 10:41
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I don't know what the situation is like in Sweden, but I've never heard of anyone in Denmark getting guff for suggesting that we treat refugees like refugees, i.e. provide them with an actual support network and make efforts to integrate them. The current conversation is focused on undoing the "integration" policies of the right, which mostly involve treating them somewhere between cattle and criminals, but the conversation on the left has always been about how these people need help which they currently are not receiving. I'm pretty clearly not hanging out in whatever leftist circles you guys are talking about, and I'm not saying they don't exist, but I've never seen someone fighting for refugee rights get attacked from anywhere but the right.
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Sep 4, 2018 11:06
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SD might also be used to to designate the Danish social democrats, though they tend to go by S or A. And (Ø), if anyone might be wondering.
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Sep 9, 2018 06:48
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We all know what Cardiac votes.
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Sep 9, 2018 09:31
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And the Danish one is currently garbage because interests are lobbying to privatize it and the government is deliberately mismanaging it and making it take on poo poo contracts in order to establish the will to have it privatized. It's an ouroboros of lovely private interests all the way down.
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Sep 9, 2018 15:30
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Wow, I am completely surprised that someone would go there. 
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Sep 10, 2018 09:57
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That's kind of weird. In Denmark you just get handed a single massive sheet of paper, like A2 size, and then tick off whatever box once you're in the booth. Do they print enough ballots for each party for everyone? It doesn't even sound like it saves paper.
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Sep 10, 2018 20:37
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These are strange times, friend. In 16-17, Denmark had a minority government consisting entirely of Venstre (liberals) in spite of it being the third biggest party.
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Sep 12, 2018 10:25
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