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susan
Jan 14, 2013

Khisanth Magus posted:

she set a lot of people on fire then got a verbal beat down and more or less dragged off by kreoss who was very pissed. Thyra had fun repeatedly shanking Caine though, so PoM didn't have a completely wasted trip!

Then she got a pony for her birthday.

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susan
Jan 14, 2013

Magres posted:

Not Goreshade 4, it'll be Gyyryshyylyd 1 :v:

You forgot some 'y's.

susan
Jan 14, 2013

GEMorris posted:

Ret, as always, has no broken casters. The open question is if the overall power level of infantry/jacks will push the faction into s/op tier.

I dunno. Ossyan feels like he could be a problem.

susan
Jan 14, 2013
I-5 Championship Team Event info just dropped for any West Coast Goons who want to take a team to Portland. 5 person, WTC-style, pre-submitted lists, 16 team event with some awesome prizes this year. Defending champs Team Robby's Angels (my team) will be returning this year, so we can be back-to-back champions next year.

http://forums.cogcollective.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1600&p=7639#p7639

susan
Jan 14, 2013

Kithkar posted:

So apparently the Warmachine upgraded juniors are all getting collectors boxes pre releases at gen con.

Weird semantics question: Will the new Aaikos (et al) be Aaikos2? Even though it's the first Aaikos Warcaster, technically, kind of? Or will the new Aaikos be Aaikos1, and his previous iteration be Aaikos Jr? This is a VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION (probably only to me).

susan
Jan 14, 2013
New Farrow Warlock preview.

susan
Jan 14, 2013
The Facebook groups are freaking out over the new Merc theme list, because it gives Boomhowlers Ambush and a few free solos. While those are cute, how the gently caress is no one freaking out about the ARMYWIDE FEIGN DEATH it gives for free???

susan
Jan 14, 2013

I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:

You want to provide a link or details to said theme list?

Fake Edit:
:argh: BEEEESSSSS :argh:

susan
Jan 14, 2013

PaintVagrant posted:

I'm not sure I mind feign death on units, but on casters it is really egregious.

"My Buccaneer walks up to Bart, throws him forward, screw you Caine."

susan
Jan 14, 2013

CampingCarl posted:

A couple newbie Khador questions:
1. Is it still worth it to pick up Aiyana and Holt? I know it needs Valachev which makes 12 points for the unit which seems like a lot.
2. When/how do you use ternions or koldun lords? They seem neat but I don't see them in many lists.
3. Any other suggestions for a journeyman league knowing nothing of possible opponents?

1. Probably not. Khador seldom lacks for armor cracking, and it remains to be seen if Magical Weapons are worth 12pts, but... probably not.

2. If infantry becomes a thing, they'll be back. Until then...

3. Like things to buy? Ways to spend points? Or tactics?

susan
Jan 14, 2013

PaintVagrant posted:

Feel the joy of breaking a rager's spirit. There is no better feeling than outwardly maintaining your cool as someone you dislike melts down in front of you. Getting him to spike his caster into the table is worth like, a million points

Also, free Malekus, and Malekus is baller.

susan
Jan 14, 2013

evenworse username posted:

Rad, that's better than I thought then. I guess the spell is disallowing stuff like Reposition then? (I am now uncertain what *isn't* Normal Movement, haha)

Reposition is not normal movement, nor is sprint. Just that block of activation where you say "I activate, that unit advances/charges/tramples/runs, and then..."

And yeah, Vindictus is awesome, and will be awesomer when the KE UA drops in a month. Delivering her with his feat and a speed buff is insane.

susan
Jan 14, 2013

KPC_Mammon posted:

My friend who plays Menoth only owns three units outside of the choir: Zealots, Errants, and Bastions. He hasn't been very impressed with infantry this edition, but so far he has had the most success with Zealots.

Ouch. Zealots, Errants, and Bastions were the hardest hit by the nerf stick this edition.

Tell your friend to pick up Idrians and he'll never go back. For a screen, TFG or either of the Cav work wonders too. Daughters work well also, but are very AOE vulnerable so can be trivial to deal with against the wrong matchup. And start stockpiling Knights Exemplar, those guys are going to be solid gold with any Vinny/High Reclaimer list.

susan
Jan 14, 2013
A Skornre fix I was brainstorming with my local Meta: What if they took everything in Skornre, every single model and unit, and lowered it's cost 1pt? Their models seem underpowered, but it's all relative to cost. They're a huge army invading Immoren, what if they become a swarm faction instead of an elite unit faction?

susan
Jan 14, 2013

PaintVagrant posted:

I think it's a good game too, but there are just too many good games out there now for me to play em all! If there was local interest I'd play malifaux.

The Seattle/Tacoma Meta is on a hard Malifaux swing right now while PP works on the Mk 3.5 rule set. Seriously, we had a 26 person Malifaux event last week and haven't had a 20+ person WM/H tournament for months.

susan
Jan 14, 2013

Jimmy Hats posted:

Ehhhh i think it's really counter-intuitive. The whole concept of a charge bonus is you're using momentum to make your attack hit harder: running past a dude and then wheeling around totally reverses that momentum and doesn't make a lick of god drat sense.


Yeah malakov2's throat slitter is gonna be a got dang nightmare now and it also means khador jacks can charge past dudes, laugh at the free strike, (or just parry it under kommandy feat!) and be hitting at mat9 but it just feels cheap, cheap, cheap.

Yeah, because Khador Jacks needed this buff, right? *puts gun in mouth*

Seriously though, most Heavies are going to be able to get a flat +2 MAT vs any Charge Target now, since a single free strike is either wholly unable or extremely unlikely to take out a relevant system during a charge attack. Especially your higher base ARM Jacks like Khador and Menoth. What would it take to cripple a Juggernaut's Cortex in a single free strike? ARM 20, 12 boxes needed to cripple the Cortex, which means a POW 14 needs to roll triple 6's on exactly Column 4 to do it. Yeah, I'll take those odds to get +2 on your Warcaster.

susan
Jan 14, 2013

lokipunk posted:

On that note, anyone seen this:
http://wmhbattlereporter.com/#/statsViewer?show=faction

Cryx is just fine right now, right?

Edit: the whole melee range thing is actually a stealth gang buff too isnt it?

Yep, it's a Gang buff. Also a Reach/Ghostly/Parry/Acrobatics/Backstab/etc buff.

And yeah, seen that Battle Report site. It's.... kinda useless information. Self selected sample group with no filter for relevant data. A casual game with a PG training a new player is both wildly less useful than pretty much any Tournament game, and is also much more likely to be reported by the excited new player. *shrug* Points for effort, though.

susan
Jan 14, 2013
Una the Meta Breaker - WB: +29
- Druid Wilder - PC: 4
- Gorax Rager - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7)
- Scarsfell Griffon - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8)
- Scarsfell Griffon - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8)
- Scarsfell Griffon - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
- Scarsfell Griffon - PC: 8
- Scarsfell Griffon - PC: 8
- Scarsfell Griffon - PC: 8
- Scarsfell Griffon - PC: 8
- Razorwing Griffon - PC: 7

Reeves of Orboros - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16
- Reeve of Orboros Chieftain & Standard - Chieftain & Standard: 4
Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5
Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5

susan
Jan 14, 2013
On a fun note to break up the Una apocalypse watch, more Muppets!

susan
Jan 14, 2013
Aaaaaand, Karchev Mad Dog spam wins the WMW Last Chance Qualifier, Iron Gauntlet, and Invitational, marking the first ever WMW Triple Crown.

Not that Chris Davies isn't an amazing player, but seriously, hint hint Errata team.

susan
Jan 14, 2013

rkajdi posted:

I agree that Mad Dogs are better than Berserkers, but I don't think the drop off is bad enough that you won't just see one less Berserker as a spam when the Mad Dog is nerfed into the ground.

Also, to the guy above who is suggesting cheap jacks are the issue instead of expensive beasts-- is your goal to move the game back more towards infantrymachine? Because that's exactly what nerfing low end jacks instead of improving most beasts (all but the top end really) will do. I rather like the idea of twoish heavies being in every list, and pushing lists away from using jacks again just seems like a negative push to me. The problem isn't too little infantry, it's the imbalance of jacks v. beasts and the spamability of a few cheap jacks.

It's actually both things (devalued Infantry and cheap Beasts) that are problems. We live in an environment where Bane Thralls vs Mad Dogs actually favors Mad Dogs in the exchange (17pts vs 7, meaning each BT unit needs to kill 2.5 dogs before being wiped out, which won't happen because Mad Dogs out threat Bane Thralls even without Road to War and can blow up/nuke the whole group), which is insane. When *Bane Thralls* can't keep up with Armor Spam, it's a problem.

susan
Jan 14, 2013

I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:

I wonder if Malekus actually wants to run Zealots as Pow 8 3d6 blast damage or Pow 14 3d6 direct hits is pretty ok



Also WMW was awesome

Malekus wants Cleansers. In a list with Knockdown, Hand of Judgment, and that feat, we're talking 11 boosted 14's from almost 20" away hitting on 3's. They're also just great at clearing off infantry screeners from your fire immune Jacks.

susan
Jan 14, 2013
497 hit boxes, at a minimum ARM 18 is the problem. Or, at least, the biggest problem. That's an absurd number, with an absurd damage threshold. Weaponmaster spam can't counter that, other heavy hitters can't counter that, it's a ridiculous figure that needs to be altered. And it's not just Karchev. Perhaps he's the worst offender, but is it much better with Butcher and Full Throttle for free boosted charges and better damage options? Or how about B3 Energizer to make it faster? Harkevich to get them +3 ARM for the turn it counts? Sorscha2 for double damage feat and Boundless Charge? poo poo is bonkers. Bargain price Heavies should not exist at that price.

susan
Jan 14, 2013

CaptCommy posted:

MK3 is much much better, in fact.

Mk3.5 will be better still!

susan
Jan 14, 2013

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

So una2 feat effectively gives parry too? Jesus Christ. I still am not going more than five birds I think.

C'mon, go all the way. With Flank, they're effectively MAT 8 POW 15.5 wreckers before Hand of Fate or Primal/Blessed. What more do you want?

susan
Jan 14, 2013

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

At least for circle all the huge bases have unique guns you won't find anything close to in the faction. I think the engines in general are pretty good at fulfilling that utility across the board.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeexcept Cryx!

susan
Jan 14, 2013

Khisanth Magus posted:

Highlights (as someone who plays Ret) from today's insider regarding the upcoming balance changes:

Ossyan losing deadeye for fortune, which thoroughly unseats him from being one of Ret's most powerful casters.

Seem to be indicating that wrongeye and snapjaw will not be changing, which is bullshit.

He said Star-crossed isn't changing, while subtly implying something else on WE/SJ was. For example, Submerge.

susan
Jan 14, 2013
Also it occurs to me that Gargs being immune to Grievous might make Mountain King immortal. Which... Could be a problem...

susan
Jan 14, 2013
Interesting changes, but the irony of giving Shield Guard to the biggest bullet catchers in Cryx is real. Now Sac Pawn, Sac Pawn would be something on Brutes.

susan
Jan 14, 2013

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

Yeah Marauder seems really under costed.

Khador is undercosted. And Karchev is fine, just take MAT 7 stuff with him now which, considering that means Juggernauts, is probably something you should have been doing already.

susan
Jan 14, 2013

Luebbi posted:

I think one of the main problems is that Sloan has a comparable kit, but better in every way. The difference being that Haley affects all models while Sloan "only" affects Battlegroup. But Sloan gives True Sight, additional range, and a better personal threat. Boostable guns mostly > other guns right now; I can see Haley taking Stormstriders or Blazers and Stormlances which Sloan won't take, but they don't even out Sloans superior ranged game.

Personally I think that's more a problem with Sloan than with Haley, and that a battlegroup-wide ranged buff should not be in Cygnar now that we've got premeasuring, but what do I know.

This is hilariously the opposite of the Mk2 problem, where if a person wanted to play a Sloan list, they were better off in all regards just swapping in Haley1.

susan
Jan 14, 2013

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

I've been bummed out about this game recently. It doesn't help that my local meta is anemic (lot of us are getting into guild ball which is making it worse.) My last 6 matches were probably against my friend's khador, and only a few circle things seem to work against the metal mountain. I'm not interested in the strongest casters of my faction. I think una2 is in general just a terrible design. She's so hyper focused on griffons, but doesn't have any reason to run the three birds that are neglected. I think the mark 3 changes per model in the faction have been great, tharn ladies notwithstanding, but I think I hate the feel of the faction now. I'm already out of points when I put in the essentials. Circle has always been the most "solved" faction, and solved poo poo is the most boring to me.

But I really don't want to buy into another faction either. None really pop out at me. Certainly not enough to want to eat the cost. And selling my army would be a hassle.

So I'm going to wait and see. But I don't have high hopes for Kaya 3. I never liked the other two kayas. And with kromac2 being my main guy a caster that makes beasts accurate and hit harder isn't really new and shiny.

Seattle meta is feeling this too. We've gone from selling out 32 person events to struggling with 8 person scrambles. Malifaux more than Guild Ball is eating a lot of attention, but all the other games seem like they're getting a mini renaissance (40k, X-Wing, GB, etc). It's weird. We have so many players taking hiatus from WMH, waiting for Mk3 to feel fun again and not understanding or being able to articulate why it doesn't.

susan
Jan 14, 2013
Thoughts:

War Room Army

Protectorate of Menoth - eSev gently caress All Y'all

Theme: The Creator's Might
75 / 75 Army


Hierarch Severius - WJ: +26
- Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
- Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
- Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
- Crusader - PC: 10
- Crusader - PC: 10
- Crusader - PC: 10
- Crusader - PC: 10
- Crusader - PC: 10
- Blessing of Vengeance - PC: 13

Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0
The Covenant of Menoth - PC: 0

Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4


THEME: The Creator's Might
---

GENERATED : 01/11/2017 14:02:34
BUILD ID : 2034.17-01-07

susan
Jan 14, 2013
Fuuuuuuuck that Khador theme list.

You know the worst part? Karchev Armor Spam now gets a free Advance Move to help its scenario game. Whee! *faceplant*

susan
Jan 14, 2013

chutche2 posted:

And it lost jury rigged and the berserker chassis got way more expensive, and he dosn't boost attack anymore, so who cares?

You feel confident dealing with 10 ARM 20 MAT 7 34HP Marauders at the midline on the top of 1? I kinda don't.

susan
Jan 14, 2013

rydiafan posted:

Aren't they SPD 4? 7+4+4+4=19, not 24.

Hmm. Right, math failed me. But still. 5" off midline with countercharge up is pretty hosed.

Khador - Karchev the Meta

Karchev the Terrible - WJ: +30
- Marauder - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
- Marauder - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
- Marauder - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
- Marauder - PC: 10
- Marauder - PC: 10
- Marauder - PC: 10
- Marauder - PC: 10
- Marauder - PC: 10
- Marauder - PC: 10
- Juggernaut - PC: 12

Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 3 Grunts: 3

THEME: Winter Guard Kommand

susan
Jan 14, 2013
A'ight, I've been out of the game for a few months, but there's a big local Masters tournament (Seattle Open) coming up in March that I figured I should play in, since it's in my back yard. I've no idea what the current tournament meta looks like, so how does this pairing look to face down the world:

(High Reclaimer 1) The High Reclaimer [+32]
- Reckoner [16]
- Reckoner [16]
- Hierophant [3]
Knights Exemplar [9]
- Knights Exemplar Officer [5]
Knights Exemplar [9]
- Knights Exemplar Officer [5]
Exemplar Vengers (max) [20]
Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15]
- Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]

(Severius 2) Hierarch Severius [+26]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Blessing of Vengeance [13]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
The Covenant of Menoth [0]
Vassal of Menoth [0]
Vassal of Menoth [0]
Theme: The Creator's Might

Drop Sevvy into most things, or drop High Reclaimer into the lists that look like they could actually handle 9 Warjacks.

susan
Jan 14, 2013
Caine3 feat timing question: Does the hit counter start before the feat is popped? I see nothing limiting the counter to after the feat is popped.

susan
Jan 14, 2013

waah posted:

Hnnnngggggghhh

Playing the wrong list into Karchev jack spam is about the worst god drat thing. That's what I get for only packing enough to run my hydra list

What's the *right* list into 'Chev Jack Spam these days, exactly?

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susan
Jan 14, 2013
On the one hand, good changes that were seriously needed. On the other hand, sure, it took them less than a month of yelling to see the Khador theme list was a problem, it would have been nice if they had thought it through before releasing it at all. A month of bullshit is still a lot of bullshit.

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