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It's strange, Star Trek was always pretty woke or progressive or whatever the era-appropriate term was. The change from "where no man has gone before" to "where no one has gone before" is a prime example, as is the numerous female characters who are unmarried and capable professionals. And all the pacifism and tolerance of TNG. Picard is basically a SJW.
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Feb 18, 2021 19:55
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Tunicate posted:For a while, the official policy was 'noncanon, except for the good episode with spock and time travel, that one is canon'. It may not be canon, but there's also no canon saying it didn't happen.
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Feb 19, 2021 11:27
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Royal Updog posted:Please desist from horny posting Any episode with Picard is the horniest episode. There are four lights 
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Feb 25, 2021 20:44
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Surely UPN tried to make Voyager horny for the 90s. Kes is literally one year old. Also 7of9, as noted above, was probably introduced for partially horny reasons.
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Feb 25, 2021 21:32
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John F Bennett posted:So Risa is like some sort of sex planet, right? Yes. Don't think too hard about it, it gets into some potentially interesting issues of prostitution, sexual liberation and such-like which Star Trek would absolutely not be able to handle. Also the TNG session 1 episode "Justice" where the natives don't know what to do with Wesley because he's a child and thus can't gently caress.
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Feb 25, 2021 21:54
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Powered Descent posted:This actually does come up later on in the series. Dr. Crusher holds the rank of Commander, and is definitely in charge of sickbay, but she's not a bridge officer so she'd only be called upon to take command under very unusual circumstances. Same thing goes for Troi, who's a Lt. Commander. Crusher loving nails command too when she's put in charge, including disobeying orders in order to Do The Right Thing and keeping morale. She's actually a pretty awesome example of putting a woman on equal terms with the men and being able to get her way without it being because of stupid gender stereotypes. Meanwhile, when Troi gets command she doesn't know what to do and basically has to get O'Brien and Ro to tell her how to be in command. She really should have just put O'Brien in charge (not Ro because she would have somehow attacked Cardassia). Troi as a character in general annoys me because her entire thing is being an empath, and pretty much every useful thing she does if tied to that ability, which is also very gender conforming. This has been a women's studies reading of a show no women watches.
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Feb 26, 2021 22:35
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Dysgenesis posted:I dont know if this is true or just a star trek urban legend but apparently Crusher never misses a phaser shot in the whole of TNG. It's all in the writing, she's definitely a very perfect person in every way, so I don't doubt it, although she rarely uses a phaser. But she somehow manages to not be a completely boring Mary Sue type character either. I guess I just really enjoy her. Just like Picard should have done. Meanwhile, I also would believe that Troi never misses on account of never shooting at all. And while I'm posting: sorry about the women don't watch Trek joke. I'm dumb.
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Feb 27, 2021 21:38
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jeeves posted:According to the post-Probert slight redesign of the ship for the four foot model, Picard’s quarters are directly above Ten Forward. This seems like either evidence of superior insulation from sound or terrible planning. If it's anything like an apartment, Picard would be able to hear any party down there, which would both keep him grumpy and let him chew out whoever was there. And the parties would probably moderate themselves for that reason. Also they're doing shifts, so parties at all hours. The Enterprise is a party boat in my headcannon, yes.
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Feb 28, 2021 08:52
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I don't entirely disagree, but keep in mind that your target audience isn't "everyone" but "nerrrrrds with too much money". Lego Trek would just be generic space ships to kids (which is cool) but also sell well to manchildren. And obviously you'd want your merch in the high end adult (no, not like that*) toy category. Like com badges, tricorders, uniforms, possibly prosthetics (just get regular elf ears for space elves). And also high quality models, but I think those exist? *But probably also like that.
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Feb 28, 2021 09:10
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I kinda know merch exists, but compared to other franchisees, there's way less availability. It should at least be comparable with doctor who. Anyway, what about board games? That seems like an ideal niche for Trek, but the only example I can think of is Star Catan (which is incidentally considered one of the best Catans I think). There's so many ways to mash Trek into a boardgame, and if it's mechanically sound, non-Trekkies will also buy it. You can do anything from lots of minis like Imperial Assault or even a Twilight Emperium knock-off to some puzzle type warp engine optimization thing and lots in between.
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Feb 28, 2021 10:46
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Gully Foyle posted:Checks out. I always liked the bits and pieces about just how terrifying Data could be. The most obvious example is in Brothers where the terrible security system on the Enterprise lets Data single-handedly hijack a starship and essentially hold the crew hostage. Data is pretty much superior to humans in all ways except (or especially if want to conform to stereotypes) emotions. He's way stronger than a human, capable of superhuman perception and thinking, and probably has way more steady hand and better motor skills too. The only reason you even have crusher as a doctor is more or less that more characters are more fun on a show. Data should be able to completely replace Geordie and Crusher at least, but not Picard or even Worf who use their guy feelings when dealing with aliens.
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Mar 1, 2021 20:41
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He just needs to download the relevant skills, or failing that, machine learn them using data from recordings. Same with surgery and, as actually shown, playing the violin. Stratagema was also pretty dumb, since the game was obviously about quick reactions rather than strategy. It looked intense though, and a chess live have would probably not work as well on screen.
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Mar 1, 2021 20:50
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HopperUK posted:No. He was in Starfleet when he went wonky and was arrested, section 31 did not actually manage to mess with his mind, and he rejoined the Enterprise at the end of his arc on Disco. He had already been on the Enterprise before this, under Pike. I like to think that main reason Vulcans have such long lives is to explain Spock not aging between the pilot and Kirk replacing Pike. Probably doesn't hold up though, and it's kinda neat having Spock in TNG anyway.
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Mar 4, 2021 22:00
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Nitrousoxide posted:I think it blew up all the ships using it at that moment (which was pretty much every warp capable ship) and then everyone left wasn't willing to risk having their ships just detonate out of nowhere. Pointing out plot holes in Discovery is basically like pointing out bad policy decisions of the Trump administration. About the Borg though, surely some final solution must have been found within those 600 years, because I have a super hard time seeing how they would be content with the alpha quadrant being unassimilated for hundreds of years. I understood that dilithium was just super scarce in the future, not that there was any particular risk to using it. And for some reason everyone forgot to recrystallize it, despite the inventor of recrystallization appearing in the previous season.
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Mar 5, 2021 23:10
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I just watched Genesis, and a thing I really liked was how proud Worf was of his improved weapons and how completely uninterested Picard was.
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Mar 6, 2021 09:07
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Nessus posted:What about the Giant Spock timeline? That's Prime. Actually the most prime of all timelines.
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Mar 6, 2021 13:50
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a neat cape posted:I was predisposed to hate the Ferengi after going through TNG but goddamn Quark rules The Ferengi in TNG are just so terribly executed. They're cartoon villains, and not even competent either. Add to that their excessive gestures and jumping around, and they just feel more like a joke than a threat. Compare them to the romulans, who are actually competent and have agendas and they fall completely flat. DS9, spearheaded by Quark, establishes the Ferengi as a much more nuanced race of capitalists, who work for themselves and not the unified government that TNG implies, which makes a lot more sense. And Quark specifically has a decently deep character, and that carries over to the others, including the nagus who shapes the entire culture. DS9 salvaged a failed race basically. Also I made it through TNG, which I started in January. It's good, but I definitely agree on S7 being the season of unmentioned family. And I'm choosing to believe that the future in All Good Things is not canon, mostly because of the loving warp speeds that were just completely unnecessary. I haven't watched Picard, so I don't know if I can ignore Beverly Picard yet. But if possible I will. That also shows it's age: Beverly has her own career and status and life, why the gently caress is she taking her husband's name? I get that she wasn't born Crusher, but most of her adult life she has used that name.
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Mar 10, 2021 21:52
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knox posted:I thought the actress was pretty limited, albeit the best looking major character in Trek from what I've seen (TNG + DS9, maybe Seven is hotter though.) Did you just not see Frakes? I mean, after he grew the beard obviously.
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Mar 10, 2021 22:17
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SlothfulCobra posted:DS9 did a lot less of the Ferengi just doing bad things because they're arbitrarily supposed to be villains, but that definitely seems like one. It doesn't exactly gel with the rest of the Ferengi society since it requires caring about your financial dependents and maintaining that social order seems like it'd take more upkeep than the Ferengi are usually willing to put out. Clothed hu-mon (half Betazoid) females was a thing in TNG, my feeling is that DS9 had to keep that stupid lore for canon reasons. It worked better in TNG where the Ferengi were just a ship full of men doing bad stuff. But it's dumb as hell still. I guess you could do a GoT type show with lots of (young, attractive) Ferengi. It would be very bad on all counts, so very modern Trek!
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Mar 11, 2021 12:00
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John F Bennett posted:It's a miracle that the Klingons even made it out to space instead of wiping themselves out. I think Worf may be one of my favourite characters but the Klingon race is pretty annoying. The klingons are clearly in decline and have been for some time. They're cargo culting what made the empire great while dismantling the less glorious things that actually made it work. Like the klingon scientist on TNG who was always on the defensive because no one had ever heard of a klingon scientist, why wouldn't you rather be a warrior? Clearly they had some top notch scientists at some point to invent warp and cloaks and disruptors. But then they focused on using them instead of improving them and now the empire isn't going too well.
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Mar 11, 2021 13:32
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Sir Lemming posted:Deflector dishes, how do they work? Oh boy, how don't they work! The deflector dish gets repurposed a lot of what I'm saying.
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Mar 11, 2021 19:30
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Paradoxish posted:Nah, DS9 is really sadly not exceptional in this regard at all. The Quark stuff almost beats out a lot of contemporary writing because at least Quark is explicitly not "good" outside of situations where we're supposed to think he's redeemed himself. It's super hard to revisit pretty much any 90s sitcoms because a ton of stuff just comes off as outright racist, homophobic, or transphobic, and certain aspects of misogyny are so built in to a lot of them that you can't even separate them from the rest of the show. This makes me sad, because I'm worried that I won't be able to enjoy Star Trek with my son because he will have grown up in a better time and will not be able to look past the issues. Just like I still can't get into TOS. I'm not even gonna pretend Discovery and Picard exist.
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Mar 12, 2021 11:35
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MikeJF posted:I assume the Standby/Overdrive were the Transwarp Drive status messages. I just watched the TNG retrospective. A fun thing is how they mention a touchscreen as a futuristic impossible thing, and now they're everywhere.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:17
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McSpanky posted:Solitons? That didn't work out so well last time... The soliton wave worked pretty well, it just needed a bit more work to be practical. In a universe with good writing, it would have existed in Discovery season 3.
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Mar 15, 2021 16:43
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Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
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Mar 15, 2021 22:36
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Jeffrey was not a large man, so the the tubes were perfectly fine for him. Alternatively, he was a huge fan of Dickensian chimney sweeps and wanted way more child labour. The real answer is that there was no space left after they put in the turbolift dimension.
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Mar 16, 2021 16:34
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Timby posted:I forget which actor said it, but the best villains legitimately see themselves as the good guys. It's because no real person ever set out to be evil. If you want believable and preferably relatable villains, they need to have believable motivations (but with some unsympathetic elements thrown in to make them villains). Dukat has very real motivations (patriotism, family and the others that have been mentioned) and acts mostly rational about achieving his goals. He just thinks of Bajorans as a lesser lifeform that he can use as slaves and/or save. Gowron also sort of works because he has a quite understandable motivation of being the leader of an independent Klingon empire. The Borg are not villains, they're more a force of nature really.
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Mar 16, 2021 20:13
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The point of calling them a force of nature is not to call them a natural phenomenon, but to say they are essentially not a human-like actor. They're not really conscious of what they do, they just do it because that's what they do. In a way, the Borg aren't really sentient.
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Mar 16, 2021 20:24
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Kurzon posted:The Borg are unempathetic and remorseless. That's pretty much how psychologists define evil, isn't it? Yes. But also I disagree that psychology is a relevant discipline to understand the Borg. It's like using biology to understand Data.
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Mar 16, 2021 21:22
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It's a flimsy excuse by the writers to get Picard tortured. But at least they made the excuse and didn't really dwell on it.
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Mar 17, 2021 13:48
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I think there's a bit of holodeck explanation in one of the first TNG episodes, but I can't remember the specifics, except whoever is explaining makes sure to end on "and a bunch of more sophisticated tricks". The biggest trick in my opinion is when the holodeck party separates and they still have to be in the save limited physical space. But it's all space magic. Meanwhile, in the Discovery timeline: " I need to be at my station way across the ship in 30 seconds. Oh well, guess I'll just kill myself"
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Mar 17, 2021 20:32
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Grand Fromage posted:I've had the same thought many times when my boss tells me to do something at work, tbh. Same, but the small death.
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Mar 17, 2021 20:38
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There's a bit more swearing and "hard language" in Picard, and honestly it ruined my immersion a bit (more) when it came from J-L (lol) or a few of the other known characters. It just didn't feel like their style. Seven gets a pass though.
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Mar 22, 2021 14:36
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Her entire character is "a woman", which means it's the most obvious role to play in a script. This is bad for multiple reasons.
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Mar 22, 2021 21:45
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MillennialVulcan posted:Edit: Feel like i'm being too qualitative, it was good Star Trek. I would like to see quantitative Trek analysis. DS9 is best because it has the most supporting characters, Discovery wins in having the longest arches. Also the largest turbolift dimension. I just watched DS9: Duet. Good episode. But it made me think of Kira swearing. She literally tells the story of parents being raped in front of their children and other atrocities, and that's somehow more acceptable than having her say "loving Cardassians". It just makes no sense to me that a bad word is of limits, but descriptions of war crimes and crimes against humanity is okay, because it's not on the list. What I'm saying is, Kira should swear a bunch. They could at least have given her some Bajoran swears, like in Firefly or BSG.
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Mar 24, 2021 20:51
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He's an admiral later on though I think?
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Mar 25, 2021 21:39
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I'm getting into DS9 again, currently at season 2 (holy poo poo I look forward to having a real job soon, binging multiple series in a few months is not that good), and I honestly like Jadzia a lot more than Sisko. A big part of it is also my dislike for the overly theatrical acting on Sisko's part, but Jadzia works for me as a sarcastic character who is mostly there to have fun and not have anything too seriously. I agree that she's not a deep character, but I think she mainly works as a counterweight to Kira and Sisko who are way too serious. Sort of like O'Brien actually, but him and the Ferengi are the real stars of the show. Unless Garak is on. He's the best.
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Mar 26, 2021 22:08
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What even would the crew do? I mean, you need a few guys to turn the wheel and plot the course and respond to admirals, plus a few guys to fix stuff in engineering apparently. And i guess the doctor is kinda smart. But in terms of actually flying the ship, that should be enough. Presumably everyone else is there for other reasons. Science seems to be the biggest one (especially stellar cartography, they always come up), but other than that I think we see some security guys who are basically marines and then just generic "crew". For comparison, modern cargo ships apparently have a crew of around 25, pretty much regardless of size according to my friend who was crew on one of the largest ones. Keep in mind that includes rotations, du it's super skeleton crew. Also lol at the guy estimating the in universe cost of anything in a world where replicators exist and money don't (latinum pretty much had to be invented for Quark to have money).
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Mar 27, 2021 20:42
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nine-gear crow posted:That was my thought too. "This is stupid, but it makes perfect sense given what I know about Treknology." Though really, I would have figured with ships like the Oberth and California classes, there would actually be the inverse and key turbolift terminuses would end in site-to-site transporter pads that would just instantaneously beam the entire turbolift car to the opposing terminus point on the other disconnected portion of the ship. Are you saying people should get in a lift, travel a bit, get teleported, and then travel a bit more in the lift? Because that sounds incredibly dumb. And it highlights how silly turbolifts are in a world where we frequently use transporters. In a way, Discovery's personal transporters make a lot more sense.
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Mar 27, 2021 21:28
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Gully Foyle posted:I think the assumptions of how many stations are crewed constantly is way too high in that analysis. If you are in deep space traveling to whatever diplomatic conference, or doing star mapping, it's not like you need to have 10 transporter rooms constantly manned. Probably only a couple of rooms would be assigned if there is no expectation of mass transportation needed. This was my thought as well. My guess/headcannon is that they have a main cast of senior officers with specific jobs, possibly a couple of ensigns in engineering and then just a shipment of all purpose ensigns who can be assigned to whatever is needed. Just keep crew quarters relatively close to anything that might be needed in a hurry and you don't need constant manning. Also O'Brien is a noncommissioned officer, meaning pretty much everyone technically outranks him I think. Not that he needs to pull rank, because he's just a cool dude who knows his poo poo and people.
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Mar 30, 2021 17:04
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