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MikeJF posted:Jellico was an awful commander, even from a military point of view, because he came in and decided to turn the entire ship's shifts upside down on the day before battle and blatantly disregard and disrespect the advice of existing ship's senior officers and particularly chief engineer out of hand without even considering what they had to say or offering reasoning as to why they had to be overruled, but Geordi and Riker are so whiny about it that you just end up focusing on how terrible they are instead. Kinda. Jellico isn't an rear end in a top hat so much as he is really incompetent. The man had to resort to threatening to murder hundreds to actually achieve his goal because if he'd been negotiating like he allegedly was assigned to, he would've started a goddamn war.
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Aug 17, 2016 13:20
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The most notable 'revelation' about a Trek race I recall from the books was that Andorians had 4 genders. Of course, they didn't do much with it, as to make it 'make sense' with what we saw on screen they had to essentially fit human sexual dimorphism, so there were 2 types of dude and 2 types of lady, basically.
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Aug 18, 2016 15:14
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Data Graham posted:That's a lot of ways to have pairings that some factions consider abominations. Well, they also did a Denobulan-style thing where the normal practice was for quartets instead of couples. It was a whole thing with Kira's new... science officer, I think, on DS9, where his whole group of spouses came to the station to take him home.
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Aug 18, 2016 15:38
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Tunicate posted:The asymptotic warp scale is dumb as shiiiiiit I've seen this said a lot in the thread and I don't get it? I like it because it prevents constant inflation. Rules are good because they give you a framework for different writers to say within.
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Aug 19, 2016 22:03
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Tunicate posted:Because there's still inflation, it's just doing warp 9.9 instead of warp 9.8, and 9.95 instead of 9.9 Not sure how that's worse than warp 261341
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Aug 19, 2016 22:11
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Gau posted:The TOS scale was just cubed so warp 1 = 1c, warp 2 = 8c, warp 3 = 27c, etc. It's neat because it's already exponential. In the original series it takes alien supertech to go much over their emergency speed of Warp 8 and even then it's like 12 or 15*. Viewers can relate to a number like that. Unless you're into Trek you won't understand that Warp 9.5 is like, ten times faster than Warp 9. Here's the thing, no matter what the scale is, eventually the showrunners have to say "OK, guys, the upper limit is x" and you'll then get smartasses going to (x-1).9999. It's not the Warp 10 log scale that's the issue. 10 is a nice number to set as the limit. Sash! posted:I know WARP 9 ENGAGE!!!!!! is a Trek convention, but they'd have been better served by just using nautical conventions or reactor output percentages. Yes, and when Picard says "go to Rigel 14 at warp 7" then they get a distress call and he says "increase to warp 9.5" you get that he's saying "GO WAY FASTER". But if he said "increase to warp 2000" you've lost all sense of scale.
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Aug 20, 2016 00:34
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Tunicate posted:And clearly there's a sense of huge changes in scale involved in going from warp 9.5 to warp 9.7!!!!!!!!! My point is that saying the limit is warp 100 wouldn't 'fix' the problem. Just like scoring video game reviews out of 5 or 100 doesn't fix the issues of whether an 8.75 is an insult compared to a 9 because you'll just get people bitching about how GTA 7 got only a 92 or only a 4.2. No matter what the limit is, you're gonna want the protagonists to be able to be near it. The only way to avoid having writers giving numbers near the top of the scale is not to have numbers at all. Hell, even the 105% figure from Red October could easily fall victim to the same issue. Some writer thinking "my story is way more dire, they'll need to go to 110%" Also, I'm fully self-aware of how stupid this argument is for multiple reasons. I'm not liable to convince anyone, I know, and in the grand scheme, it doesn't really matter what random numbers are used as long as the drama works.
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Aug 20, 2016 00:47
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bull3964 posted:FLY HER APART THEN! This, by the way, is how you show that a speed is REAL FAST. Have the characters react like it's insane to go that fast or that it's dangerous.
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Aug 20, 2016 01:25
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The General posted:There was also the Vulcan who stole Nog's homework about ethics, because Vulcans have none. She hadn't done her homework, so it was only logical to avoid punishment by acquiring someone else's.
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Aug 24, 2016 22:26
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Rhyno posted:There's some godawful comics based on the idea. By your favourite writer/artist! Also, I feel like Gary Seven is what you'd get if a US network tried to make Doctor Who.
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Aug 25, 2016 14:41
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Russ actually comes off a lot more Spock-like in that footage, there's a lot of restrained warmth that I think got drilled out of anyone playing a Vulcan after a certain point.
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Aug 26, 2016 00:27
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Railing Kill posted:Farscape would at least have the decency to A) not have it be a literal rape, and B) find a way to have fun with a weird situation and still have the human character lose his mind over it. Actually, Farscape DID have Crichton get raped, and he was absolutely not OK with it.
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Aug 28, 2016 03:16
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egon_beeblebrox posted:lol I think that and Naked Time are his only appearances, at least of any significance. Conscience of the King is one of those dark horse episodes that people never really talk up but it's great. It's obviously a recycled script from Have Gun Will Travel or something (the whole eyewitness thing makes no sense once audio tape and photos are widespread, let alone in the 23rd century), but it's really well performed by everyone.
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Aug 29, 2016 00:55
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Timby posted:Right, but Filmation was still fronting the production costs and TAS was made on the tightest of budgets -- they were already having to do things like have Shatner record his dialogue from across the country then pay to have the tapes shipped to the studio, and the money crunch is why Koenig wasn't involved and why every alien in the galaxy sounds suspiciously like a certain Canadian character actor. Not true. Sometimes they got Majel or Nichelle to do the alien voices!
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Sep 2, 2016 23:19
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Baronjutter posted:Moses was a worm hole alien Absurd. You can't use past tense for the Prophets.
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Sep 7, 2016 03:17
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twistedmentat posted:I love how You never wondered why all the consoles were hanging down from the ceiling?
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Dec 19, 2016 03:47
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is how they react when they realize they are becoming attracted to each other. In the Ship, I was always confused about why the Jem'Hadar fighter didn't look anything like we've seen, all blocky, then when I saw it recently I heard dialog I must have missed before, where they say the ship had crashed upside down.
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Looked like a giant one of those maple syrup candies you get in Canada.
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Jan 24, 2017 15:40
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Pretty sure the kid with the human tongue is supposed to be babby Burnham/Raineford/whatever her name is now. They seem to be setting Sarek up as her mentor, which seems like overkill considering Captain Michelle Yeoh is also doing that.
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May 17, 2017 23:18
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I'm kinda amazed at the mentions of Orville looking like Trek, cuz I get way more of a Galaxy Quest vibe from those outfits. Like MacFarlane literally took a screenshot from that movie and told his costume designer "LIKE THIS!  "At a stretch it looks kinda like Crusade, which is... I'm not sure if that's the right target for your broad audience sci-fi parody.
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May 18, 2017 02:19
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FlamingLiberal posted:The reason people still care about ST is exactly because it is a positive view of the future. It would not still be relevant otherwise. There's no reason they can't speak to that in this series. I mean the lead is a black woman, and it seems like another co-lead or major character is an Asian woman. I will be stunned if Yeoh makes it out of the opening episode/two-parter. Her whole character even in that trailer screams "mentor who dies to push the heroine into action".
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May 18, 2017 13:57
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WampaLord posted:The stupid CBS All Access part is honestly putting the kiss of death on the show before it even airs. It's like the modern version of announcing it'll be on Friday night. I'm honestly not sure, considering they put the Good Fight on there as well, and you'd think they'd be trying to push that as a network equivalent of like Better Call Saul. (Spin off of an award bait drama series starring a popular lawyer supporting character)
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May 18, 2017 14:19
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I'm sure MacFarlane wants Discovery to be good. Dude is a big time Trek fan. He hosted some of the roundtable stuff from the TNG blu-ray special features and had a recurring minor role on Enterprise.
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May 18, 2017 14:51
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Gammatron 64 posted:Like, I kinda get the vibe that this is going to be some kind of dark action show and that's not really Trek. Star Trek has this feeling of adventure and wonder that isn't here. This looks more like a Hollywood movie. Either it's meant to be her fatal flaw that she grows through as her arc (she thinks shoot first is the right call, but later learns to be more Starfleet after, say, getting her crew killed) or it's out of context and it's meant as a "They're Klingons, we have to shoot or they'll think we're wusses and won't talk!"
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May 18, 2017 22:54
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Comrade Fakename posted:
It's not so much the LOOK of The Orville that makes me boggle at the love, but has anyone in this thread watched THAT trailer? Because jesus that show looks like less fun than a rusty nail in the groin. The FIRST joke in the trailer is a 'women bitch about the toilet seat, amirite guys!?" gag and the rest aren't much better. I'd much rather have a mediocre Star Trek show as a drama than a painfully unfunny comedy.
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May 19, 2017 14:49
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The two best scenes in Beyond are actually polar opposites, I'd say, in terms of pace and scale. Those being Bones and Kirk's discussion of mortality and finding your own direction in life over stolen whiskey, and the Beastie Boys explosion-o-rama.
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May 19, 2017 15:09
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mycomancy posted:We got something very similar in Stargate: Universe. If Voyager would've stuck with their premises like being flung into scarcity and having a conflict between the Maquis and Starfleet crew, poo poo could've gotten very, very good. It was trying very, very hard to pretend it wasn't a Stargate series. Say what you will about DS9 but it never felt ashamed of being Star Trek, but Universe felt like they were embarrassed by how silly SG1 and Atlantis were sometimes. They outright mocked the idea of any kind of awe at seeing where the titular gates were made in one episode, which kind of sums that idea up in a single beat for me. Note: I actually quite LIKE Universe, but mostly agree with the consensus that it improved immensely once they veered away from the 'let's be like BSG' mandate and hewed back towards the Stargate universe (pun slightly intended) feel.
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May 19, 2017 15:56
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Is it just me, or does that trailer look like they're hinting at some kind of big secret behind Harry fuckin' Mudd of all people?
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Jul 23, 2017 00:09
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Spock gotta lotta step/half-siblings that we never hear about until they appear...
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Jul 23, 2017 00:59
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The clip they show is both good in that Wilson has the look and voice down, but bad because it's making Harry look like some kind of maniacal badass Joker-type, when he's always been shown to be a wussy con-artist who backs down at the slightest pressure.
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Jul 23, 2017 15:04
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I like Kira, granted, but wooden is not a criticism I can see being levied at her. Melodramatic, maybe, but not wooden. And maybe this is hindsight, but a character that is an admitted terrorist that is one of the heroes is not really a stereotype I've ever seen?
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Jul 24, 2017 11:12
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Her early portrayal is much more "I spent my teen years blowing up buses of Cardassians so they'd leave and stop forcing us to work for them, and now I have to answer to a bunch of smooth nosed alien pricks? gently caress YOU"
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Jul 24, 2017 15:11
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MisterBibs posted:I always figured wearing personal custom ethnic clothing, but it's not an innate right. If you're in your CO's poo poo list, he can pull that privilege and you have to earn it back. Not like Picard yanked Worf's baldric off when he nearly caused a war by refusing to save that Romulan. In reality, i think the earring thing was supposed to be just a fashion thing in the early Ro episodes, and then DS9 filled it out to basically be the equivalent of a crucifix, yarmulke or turban from a religious standpoint so it seems like bullshit when Worf's allowed to wear his thing which is basically just humblebragging about how kickass his Dad and other ancestors are, but Ro (and that one kid on Voyager that Tuvok pulls the same poo poo on) isn't allowed to wear a super-important cultural identifier. I half-think that's why they had Ro talk about not being religious in that one episode where she and Geordi 'die', so as to make it seem like less of a big deal. I actually liked in the DS9 relaunch books where they reveal that Ro deliberately wears it on the wrong ear to gently caress with vedeks who try to get grabby for her pagh because she's not a believer.
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Jul 25, 2017 16:34
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Sir Lemming posted:All this talk of the Dominion being a multi-species counterpoint to the Federation makes me glad that Enterprise never tried to suggest that the Xindi were actually a prequel to the Dominion. Berman and Braga would never have done it, because it would require acknowledging that DS9 did something worthwhile.
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Jul 26, 2017 15:32
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Big Mean Jerk posted:This is where the PD loses the "it's a moral responsibility" excuse and just becomes Starfleet literally believing in fatalism and predestination. Riker even pitches what amounts to "What if God wants them to die?" in Pen Pals, doesn't he?
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Jul 26, 2017 17:42
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I think it's probably because DS9 feels like it understands it's characters better from day one than any of the other shows did. Encounter At Farpoint and most of TNG s1 has Picard in that stern, cold authoritarian role that they for some reason thought was a good idea, there's the reshuffling of Geordi and Worf, the ditching of Tasha and them trying to figure out what to do with Wes which shows a lot of teething issues from even a basic series bible level. DS9 in contrast only really has to course-correct with Bashir, and even then they do so by making it part of his maturing. Kira et al feel like the writers all understand the characters, their backstories, and their motivations much more from the start such that what changes do happen are part of defined arcs for those characters rather than obvious tinkering with a TV formula to find a balance.
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Jul 26, 2017 19:22
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shadok posted:The Borg are not a race, they're the victims of an infectious disease. Eradicating polio was not genocide. Eradicating polio was also not achieved by shooting everyone with polio in the head.
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Jul 27, 2017 18:06
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Baronjutter posted:This is why Pale Moonlight is a good episode because it shows a generally upstanding starfleet officer basically choosing the other path. When Sisko did what he did it had a lot of gravity and it affected him. When Janeway though flagrantly violated everything starfleet stands for she seems to revel in it. Ironically, the example cited earlier in this discussion, of Tuvix, is the rare case that disagrees with that. She makes a call, takes ownership of it and even pulls the trigger herself when the Doctor objects, and she's clearly shaken by it afterwards but can't let the crew see that doubt because she's the one in charge.
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Jul 27, 2017 19:59
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MisterBibs posted:This discussion started because the crew of the Enterprise misread their pet Borg as being not a Borg. It's why the next time it's brought up in the series, it's in a "what is wrong with you, you guys hosed up" context.
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Jul 27, 2017 21:53
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Well, also remember that the Warbird is about 80% empty space. In sheer interior volume, it may not be much bigger than the Enterprise.
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Jul 27, 2017 23:58
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Yeah, I don't think anyone's arguing that Seven's personality is drastically different than the woman Annika Hansen would've been had she grown up on Deep Space 42 or whatever in the Alpha Quad, and that that trauma isn't just going to go away, but there's a difference between "being a Borg fundamentally alters someone's psyche, in mostly harmful ways" and "is literally not a people".
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Jul 28, 2017 00:19
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