Skyrim Modding: You see that sword? You can fuck it

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Skyrim Modding: You see that sword? You can fuck it

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Funky See Funky Do posted:

Having installed everything via MO I have no SKSE folder in the data folder. How do I force steamloader for skse via MO?

You can make one in MO's mod directory: create a "skse.ini under something like \MO's mod folder\SKSE stuff\SKSE

# ¿ Aug 23, 2016 13:37

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# ¿ May 5, 2024 02:38

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Sillybones posted:

What will the remastered version mean for current mods and modding in general?

We don't really have any details yet. But it looks like it will essentially be Skyrim's assets, updated/remade and placed in FO4's iteration of the Creation Engine.
This means that most of your basic mesh & texture replacers can be ported over. However the question will be if for example a face texture replacer will still look good in the new lighting.
Any plugins however will have to be recreated in an updated version of the Creation Kit. Hopefully for your average mod user, things will be backwards compatible enough that you can simply open the plugin in the CK2.0, have it automatically update records and all you have to do is save the newly converted plugin. If we're unlucky a lot of mods will have to re-created, which means trouble for mods whose creators have moved on.
Also from what footage we've seen so far, it looks like they're taking advantage of the larger memory budget available to them and are placing some extra stuff in the gameworld (plants, rocks, etc). Which can cause issues for existing mods that add stuff to the gameworld. Think a mod's merchant stall clipping with a tree that wasn't there in the original version.

The biggest potential problem will be SKSE. F4SE is nowhere near to having the features SKSE has. The SKSE team have already said that - if possible - there will be an update. But expect it to take a while. Which in turn means it will also take a while for mods like SkyUI, or any other mods that depend on functionality added by SKSE, to get an update.

As for modding in general: It will continue. Though with the introduction of Bethesda.net as a mod distribution platform and console-mods, expect an increase in modders throwing hissy fits. We already have some wonderful early entries. Be sure to stock up on popcorn and enjoy the show.

# ¿ Aug 23, 2016 17:19

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

GunnerJ posted:

Mind if I put this in the OP?

Feel free. I subscribe to the cathedral view on modding, so you don't need my permission to grab something I made, change it however you like and post it somewhere else.

# ¿ Aug 23, 2016 17:29

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Admiral Ray posted:

Never thought I'd see someone asking how to incorporate malicious DRM into their free-to-use mod, but there it is.

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised we haven't already picked up on some vindictive FO4 modder coding something like this:

code:

Scr GetFuckedConsoles
Event OnPlayerLoadGame()
	If Debug.GetPlatformName() != PC
		RegisterForUpdate(1,0)
	EndIf
EndEvent
Event OnUpdate
	RegisterForUpdate(1,0)
EndEvent

For those who don't know Papyrus: Remember those save file destroying infinite loops that incompetent people were coding left and right in the early days of Skyrim modding? It's that.

# ¿ Aug 23, 2016 18:27

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

GunnerJ posted:

I guess the only technical limit here is whether "GetPlatformName()" exists and works like that, I honestly don't know if that's a real thing or just an example you came up with because I don't feel like wading through the awesomely organized documentation for Papyrus.

It exist.
Though the above was just some quick pseudo code. If I recall right from what people who experimented with it documented: If you use it the PC it'll return "Target File Unknown". On the consoles it'll return nothing because the Debug class isn't executed on the consoles.

So unless Bethesda changed it for FO4, you can use:

code:

If (!Debug.GetPlatformName() as bool)
	{This bit of code only runs of consoles}
EndIf

And then if you want to be annoying you can wreck the consoles users save file, show annoying popups, or just use Game.QuitToMainMenu.

# ¿ Aug 23, 2016 19:17

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Agents are GO! posted:

I honestly think there should be a separate thread for modding on the console once Remastered is released, solely because when I was playing on ps3, there was nothing more frustrating than hearing "just use the console to fix it!" Whenever I had a bug.

Would there even be enough console players here to keep two separate Skyrim-modding threads active?
We could make it a thread rule that when someone comes in asking for help (bug, mod recommendations, whatever) they give useful information that will allow people to give help: Platform, Remastered y/n, etc.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2016 10:19

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Section Z posted:

Lets see. If the big Mod organizer list to the left is the load order, than Mod #7 is... Weapon and Armor fixes remade. Huh.

The list to the left in MO is your install order and lists what mods you have installed. Loadorder refers to the order in which plugins are loaded and is to the right in MO.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2016 15:21

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

GunnerJ posted:

Anyone know the basis of Sony's objection to modding "where users can do anything they want" with the game? It seems like some kind of liability concern.

That's pure guesswork until either Sony or Bethesda makes a statement which some details, which they're not likely to do.

Back in June Bethesda said the three bigest problems with PS4-mods were the Sony-imposed limit of 900mb for mods (compared to Xbox One's 2GB) and mods not being able to add sounds and only textures not optmized for the PS4 (which would cause performance issues) because the PS4 apparently uses various proprietary file formats that I guess Sony doesn't want to have Bethesda release.
Looking at it from the outside, it sort of looks like a Sony exec, who possibly didn't get what modding is or how it could benefit them, demanded all kinds of limitations on mods and wouldn't budge. And then Bethesda eventually went "gently caress it, if we released it like this people are just going to bitch endlessly at us. Better to just cut it completely."
But like I said, that's pure guesswork. Maybe there were actual technological/legal issues that they couldn't solve. :shrug:

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Sep 9, 2016

# ¿ Sep 9, 2016 19:31

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

CrusherEAGLE posted:

Any useful advice for someone who has never modded, other than what's in the OP?\

My standard modding 101:
Don't blindly follow some list of "must have" mods. At best these list are nice to skim over for ideas. Play the vanilla game for a bit until you have a good idea what you want to add/remove/change in your game.
Don't install 100+ mods in one go. poo poo will inevitably break. Install mods in small batches, preferably one at the time and quickly test if everything works in between. Yes, this will be more tedious. But it will make it much easier to track down the problem when something goes wrong.
Read stuff like readmes & description pages. Yes, sometimes these are written by some annoying asshat. But you should still skim over it and pay attention to stuff like requirements or instal/uninstal instruction. Also check the File Requirements on the Nexus' page.

CrusherEAGLE posted:

And should I wait for skyrim special edition, or does it not really matter that much?

From what we know so far, the only real boon for the PC will be some prettier vanilla graphics and more available memory. It's not that spectacular really.
As for modding: The majority of mods & tools will probably need updating for the SE. When it comes to for example SKSE that update could take quite some time. And a lot of modders have left the scene, meaning a lot of mods will never be updated. So if you want to mod your game, I really wouldn't wait.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2016 22:17

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Agents are GO! posted:

It works just fine with the DLC. Why wouldn't it work with the DLC?

NobleSkyrim doesn't have replacements for several of Dawnguard's & Dragonborn's textures yet. I guess some people somehow translated that into "is not compatible with the DLC"?

# ¿ Sep 15, 2016 16:12

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Section Z posted:

Dumb question, what do I do make Smart Souls not throw up a "Hey there's poo poo in your overwrite folder, you should take care of that" according to the Mod Organizer? (Or do I just not have to worry about that).

When any program you run through MO created a file, MO dumps said file in its overwrite folder. So for example when you launch TES5Edit through MO and create a plugin, that plugin will be saved in the overwrite folder.
And if a SKSE plugin generate a .ini file the first time the game is launched through MO with that plugin installed, into the overwrite folder it goes.
MO does this because its main purpose is to keep the game's data folder clean, so it can't be saved there. And it's impossible to interrupt the file creation process to ask you where you'd like it to be saved. So MO dumps everything into the overwrite folder and expects the user to sort it out afterwards.

Having files in the Overwrite folder isn't that big of an issue. Though if you want to have multiple mod profiles in MO, then you should know that the overwrite folder is shared between all profiles. And even if you only keep a single profile, it can still be good idea to keep the overwrite folder tidy. Just to keep things organized and to save yourself a headache when you want to edit Smart Souls' ini file. So move that .ini to where you have Smart Souls' .dll file.

Section Z posted:

Move it to the Smartsouls folder/"Move it to the mod". Which isn't a thing, because the instructions are to just dump the file into the game Installation directory's data\SKSE\plugins folder directly, therefore no mod folder

With MO, you can replace the "data" in install instructions with "<unique folder in MO's mod directory>".
So just go to MO's mod directory and install it in \Smart Souls\SKSE\plugins

As GunnerJ said, you can also install it automatically by pointing MO to the archive you've downloaded. A common problem you can run into when you do that, is MO throwing the error "No Game Data On Top Level" at you.
This is because there are lot of mods that don't use the file structure MO likes. For example a common thing is for people to place their mod inside a folder called "Data" before packaging it. MO will look at that and go "I only see this Data folder, where's the plugin, texture folder or other stuff that I'm expecting" and shrugs at you.
When you install a mod that gives you this error, you should be able to view the mod's archive contents during the installation. You can then right click on the folder that contains the actual mod (the plugin, the texture folder, or the SKSE folder, whatever) and set this as the "Data Directory".

I would however recommend extracting the archive yourself and installing it manually by just copy-pasting files. Yes, that is all very barbaric and primitive. But it's not uncommon for modders to package extra optional stuff with the main mod. And if there isn't an installer script, MO won't present that optional stuff to you during the automatic installation.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Sep 19, 2016

# ¿ Sep 19, 2016 15:08

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

ThaumPenguin posted:

Turns out the reason for most of that is because the guide wants you to make your own compatibility patch manually, from scratch

Looking over it, most of that are stuff like mods not incorporating fixes from USLEEP. That's not a bad thing to include in a guide.
Personally I would have gone a step further and removed poo poo like LOOT and WryeBash and explained how to do that yourself. But that's my beef with those tools talking.

ThaumPenguin posted:

I just found the guide very frustrating for how often it just explained the what and how, but never the why.

A lot of step guides seem to be bad at that.
The guide you linked also includes some dumb things. For example they recommend increasing fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS. For those who don't know what that .ini papyrus setting does: It controls how much time the game spends waiting on the loading screen after it has finished loading the cell. During this time scripts can do their thing and affect the cell. For example during the Civil War quest a script might want to spawn a catapult outside a city. Doing that stuff behind a loading screen prevents the player from seeing that catapult poof into existence out of thin air.
The guide naturally doesn't explain why that setting needed to be increased. If a mod's scripts need more time for a whole bunch of cells it's possible that mod is poorly coded and shouldn't be used, or at least not combined with other script-intensive mods. And if the author experienced issues on his hardware setup, that doesn't all hardware setups are equally affected.
So basically it's quite possible that guide just added a pointless 1.5 seconds of loading time to a lot of people's games.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2016 00:02

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Bholder posted:

Like Radiant AI is ever used in New Vegas...

Radiant AI is Bethesda's buzzword term for the system that controls the behaviour & schedules of NPCs and creatures and which they introduced with Oblivion. So yeah, it's used in New Vegas.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2016 15:00

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

prometheusbound2 posted:

Which piece of hardware affects script lag the most? RAM? Processor speed?

Papyrus' performance is linked to framerate. So all of them I guess.

prometheusbound2 posted:

I'm thinking of running Legacy of the Dragonborn with some quest, graphic mods, and SPERG. Is this a recipe for disaster?

You'll be fine.
It's when you have a metric assload of really script intensive mods (or one or more mods with really poorly coded & broken scripts) that papyrus' performance becomes an issue. Especially if you combine that with a lot of graphical intensive mods.

Also if you have searched about "script lag" you probably have seen people recommend certain .ini settings. Don't do that. Seriously: Don't gently caress with papyrus releated .ini settings.

# ¿ Sep 25, 2016 20:41

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

There's also a good chance that a lot of mods will have to be remade - or at the least resaved - in an updated Creation Kit.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2016 16:56

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

prometheusbound2 posted:

The SKSE team was pretty rapid about releasing new versions when Skyrim was being updated. I only have Fallout 4 on console, but I'm guessing the same applies there.

From what we've seen so far, the Special Edition looks like it's going to be basically Skyrim's assets in FO4's iteration of the Creation Engine. That means that the Script Extender team can't just grab SKSE and update it for a new patch version. It'll be have to be largely remade from scratch in order to work with the new engine.
And before you bring up F4SE: They'll likely be able to reuse the work they did on F4SE. But F4SE is still in it's infancy. It's nowhere near to having the features SKSE has.

Naturally this is all guesswork as we don't have any real details yet, but I wouldn't expect a quick & smooth transition from Skyrim to Skyrim:SE.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2016 18:50

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

pubic void nullo posted:

To those arguments I would also add that everyone who owns Skyrim+all DLC on Steam will receive the remastered Skyrim Special Edition for free when it drops in 3 weeks.

The Legendary Edition seems to have disappeared from the Steam store. Bethesda probably didn't people buying it the day before the Special Edition is released.
You probably can still get a Legendary Edition key from resellers.

# ¿ Oct 7, 2016 20:34

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Cross-Section posted:

Is it still generally considered a good idea to completely restart your PC after a crash, or is that basically an Old Wives Tale of Gamebryo? Would save me quite a bit of time if the latter!

I've never even heard of that one. I guess people took the old Oblivion advice of "restart the game before reloading a save" and somehow warped that into "restart your PC"?
But yeah, there should be no need to restart your PC after the game crashes.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2016 09:01

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Cross-Section posted:

So, what's the opinion on extracting mod BSAs in Mod Organizer in here?

MO should still show you conflicts if the files are packaged in a .bsa. The only reason to bother extracting an archive is if you have conflicts and you to manage them with MO's install order instead of the plugin loadorder.

That said, the warning Athmoor put on all his nexus entries is complete nonsense. He would have a point if MO extracted all your mods' archives in a single folder, but MO doesn't do that. It still keeps everything separate. It probably is some weird anti-MO thing.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2016 18:29

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Dark0ne posted:

Will you be putting in place better testing methods to prevent a repeat of certain mistakes made in the development of NMM?
Yes, we fully intend to learn from those mistakes.

Translation: Hopefully now that we've hired a competent programmer, we won't push out a NMM update that causes NMM to DDoS our own website.

Good for Tannin, though that does mean that we won't be getting a stable MO2 release in time for Skyrim Special Edition.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Oct 13, 2016

# ¿ Oct 13, 2016 16:33

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

KakerMix posted:

lmao where is his dumbass going to go?

Nowhere. He'll stick to his Wryebash.

Edit:
I always found it amusing that the only reason Arthmoor ("no one is allowed to touch my masterpiece wah!") can continue to desperately cling to Wrye Bash is because Wrye (the guy who came up with the whole Cathedral vs Parlor thing way back in the Morrowind days and was a huge proponent of modders working together to make cool stuff) released everything open source.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Oct 13, 2016

# ¿ Oct 13, 2016 23:17

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Davoren posted:

Hey, remember Gategate? Now Arthmoor brings us some ancient bullshit from ESO.
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/79508/

This is in essence not a bad mod though? It's not a forced update of a bigger mod. And they're placed in remote areas as something neat for the player to stumble upon.
The only problem I see is with the quality. The textures look kinda lovely in those screenshots.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2016 13:45

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Jackard posted:

I can't actually find the option to uninstall Mod Organizer

I've never used the installer version of MO, but simply moving MO's folder should work just fine.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2016 22:25

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

BlueInkAlchemist posted:

Any goons have experience with creating mods that add craftable upgrades (via grindstone/workbench/etc) that include variables from other mods?

What do you want to know?

# ¿ Oct 18, 2016 01:05

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Psion posted:

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12905/

There 20 pages of comments and in several of them you can find Arthmoor shaking his little fist against MO and it's ~evil~ virtual file system. For example:

Arthmoor posted:

And conversely, many people won't touch it if the VFS is a core feature that can't be turned off. Which is why it should be offered as an extension module for those who want it. That keeps everyone happy.

Not Arthmoor posted:

Exactly NMM has cost me hours destroying my games to the point where reinstall was the only option.
Anyone against the VFS is simply ignorant.

Arthmoor posted:

QUOTE: Anyone against the VFS is simply ignorant.
Or we use Wrye Bash and don't have these problems. The world isn't just NMM and MO you know.

NMM doesn't even use a virtual file system, dumbass.
I'm curious, did anyone ever find out what the source that hatred is? Because he thinks WryeBash is perfect and doesn't need replacing. So why not keep using that and be happy, instead of wasting all that energy arguing over a mod manager tool he's not going to use?

# ¿ Oct 18, 2016 01:11

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

BlueInkAlchemist posted:

Pretty much this, the idea is to fetch data from the existing plugin so certain non-vanilla stats can be upgraded the way vanilla stats are. Like the way you can add damage to your sword by grinding more metal into it.

Simply using a variable from another as a condition in a recipe is easy. It's something you do in a matter of seconds in xEdit if you have all the necessary FormIDs at hand.
It's not a pain in the rear end at all (then again: I've been modding Bethesda-engine games since Morrowind, so maybe I've developed Stockholm syndrome by now).

But you seem to be planning something else. Give some details about what you want to do and we'll see if it's possible and how you can do it.

# ¿ Oct 18, 2016 10:40

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Herrvillain posted:

But I don't recall that it magically tracks conflicting loose files, and fixes the data directory if you ever uninstall the last mod that wrote a particular file

WryeBash actually does have this feature. If you have mod A, install mod B that overwrites a file X from mod A. And then uninstal mod B, Wrye Bash can restore the mod A version of file X. It's called Anneal and requires that you installed all your mods via BAIN installers.
Thing is: MO's method of handling this sort of thing is way better as it gives the user more control over the whole process and doesn't make you dependant on the mod author having set up a BAIN installer correctly.

Herrvillain posted:

Yeah, I know Arthmoor can be paranoid and kooky. Statements along the lines of a virtual file system somehow degrading aren't wacky opinions, though. Somewhere along the line he had to back that up by describing how Skyrim accessing it causes blocks to become corrupt, or he had to deflect with an "uncle who works at Nintendo" defense, or maybe nobody challenged him because there's no point. It's probably the last one. I'm just curious if anyone knows.

When you get into an argument with Arthmoor about something and you continue to press him, provide facts and it because increasingly apparent that Arthmoor is wrong and has no idea what he's talking about, he'll either just stop responding or make increasingly absurd claims until it stops being worth your time to try and refute him. Basically he's the kind of person who refuses admit he's wrong. Ever.

GunnerJ posted:

So for VFS, I'm going to guess that he got a complaint about his mod that might not have been related to a problem with his mod but was related in some vague way to a "missing file." A mutual failure of communication (misunderstanding on the user's part, hostile suspicion by default on arthmoor's part) led to the conclusion that it was MO's fault. This is just a guess though.

Arthmoor's "Skyrim is intended to load a BSA alongside it's ESM/ESP file." statement is nonsense.
But when you have MO unpack the contents of a BSA, the resulting loose files' file priority is going to be determined by MO's installation order and no longer by the plugin loadorder.
I've seen a lot of people not realize that they have to pay attention to the installation order and this can cause issue. For example a lot of people had a problem where dragons don't give souls and blamed it on the unofficial patches, when in reality they messed their file priority (or were using an incompatible mod, but generally it was a file priority problem).

In the interest of being fair: It is frustrating when people come to you with problems and bugs that are completely outside of your control. When the dev of xEdit sighs and wishes people would stop pestering him about how to use xEdit with MO because he doesn't use MO and so doesn't know, I totally understand him.
Arthmoor on the other hand had a hateboner for MO from the moment Tannin released the first version. And it has become very apparent the guy has no idea what a virtual file system is or how it works. I honestly think it just boils down Arthmoor not wanting to admit he's wrong.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Oct 18, 2016

# ¿ Oct 18, 2016 15:05

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

BlueInkAlchemist posted:

I'm a big fan of Frostfall, and if it hasn't been done already, I'd like to write up a quick mod that allows the player to add "liners" to their clothing/robes/armor. Basically a combination of felt, leather, and ties that gives the item additional Warmth (that's the value I'd need from Frostfall). From a design standpoint, it'd be made on a tanning rack and added via workbench. I think I'd make this mutually exclusive with armor upgrades - you can have extra protection from bad folks, or extra protection from the cruel and unfeeling hand of the Skyrim wilderness.

You probably don't need some "Warmth" value from Frostfall, you need it to recognize the lined-armor as being warmer.
I came across this in Frostfall's readme: "Armor from mods is granted Standard exposure protection by default if the user is using the W.E.A.R. system. The user can then change the Exposure Protection value themselves using Survival Skills, Inspect Equipment. No direct support is needed." You could try digging in Frostfall and see how that "Inspect Equipment" does its thing. You could also try PMing Chesko on the Nexus with your idea and ask him where to start.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help. I don't use Frostfall, so I don't know how it works.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Oct 18, 2016

# ¿ Oct 18, 2016 15:23

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Psion posted:

I'm not disagreeing with you but isn't it priority order, which is by default installation order but not fixed as such? because MO makes it real easy to see when a file is overwriting another one and I've been troubleshooting that forever by dragging and dropping in my priority list
I basically just want to make sure I have it right

When I say "installation order" I meant the list of your installed mods on the left side of MO's interface. Which you can set, just like plugin loadorder. The thing I was getting at is that especially in the early days of MO, a lot of people didn't seem to realize that MO introduced the new concept of an installation order.
Normally the order in BSAs are loaded is the same as the corresponding plugins' loadorder. In MO you can have plugin 1 load after plugin 2. But have BSA 2 load after BSA 1. Which like I said, can cause problems if you're not aware that's happening and when files from one mod's BSA are meant to overwrite those from another.

That is, I was still on WinXP until a month ago. So I was using an older version of MO. Maybe Tannin overhauled some of that behaviour?

# ¿ Oct 18, 2016 17:20

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Someone on reddit compiled info about SSE & mods.

quote:

Note that most of the following has now been confirmed by either a Bethesda employee or by mod authors that are in the beta. SSE is really an upgrade for consoles; very little information has been released on what it means for PC players, and we won't get the full picture until release (really a few days after release, as it will take time for the community to process information and discuss what it means for us). But we now have a pretty good idea of what's going to happen thanks to the beta and some anonymous sources who have come forth with this information.

Any mod with a .dll will need to be redone. SKSE, ENB, and any mod with an SKSE plugin will have to be entirely rewritten. How difficult and time-consuming this process will be is unknown. Our current best case scenario is a few weeks; worst case may be up to a year or more (based on how difficult F4SE has been to make).

"Existing mods will mostly work (they need to be resaved in the new CK)" - This apparently means that any mod that is an esp simply needs to be reloaded into the creation kit, then saved. This process could also be done with a TES5edit script, which I'm sure mator will make for us as soon as we have enough information for him to do so.

Trainwiz was given access to a SSE beta, and he says here that for his mods (which include meshes, textures, and complex scripts) really were as simple as "save in the new CK, play!". This is excellent news for PC modders - while we still won't have the dll mods above (which are a core part of any modlist), you'll still be able to piece together something quite good on your own... even if the mod authors do not update the mods, you can edit them for personal use as long as you do not share the resulting files.

Scaleform (the UI) has updated from 10 to 15 (according to the version in the swf files). However, this is not as bad as it could be. The sources say "the UI part didn't seem to have changed much. the old skyui inventory swf just worked out of the box" - which means it's actually possible for a (mostly broken) SkyUI to be out very quickly, and easier for other UI mods to update as well (of course SKSE will still need to be updated for a fully functional one).

The Havok SDK did change. This has broken all old animations, but old nifs still work. HDT will also need to be even-more-redone-from-scratch if it's still relevant.

Nif and texture format did change. Old nifs and textures work just fine, but will have much worse performance than the new version. If you are using old SMIM for example it would have a massive performance loss compared to one with updated nifs. nifs and textures still need to be converted individually; while it can be done in the CK there is no batch function for it.

BSA format changed, different header format and faster compression. This means that old BSAs will need to be repacked in the new CK (part of the "load into new creation kit, save" process).

As far as scripts (papyrus) there weren't any structural changes - the most that seems to have changed is maybe performance of the VM. There's two different reports on the process of updating old scripts. One author reports they updated their esp, but didn't touch the scripts at all, and the mod works fine in game. Another one reports this: "we're currently assuming that old .esp plugin and old papyrus scripts are working if simply copy/pasted, but as soon as you save the .esp in the new CK, the old scripts won't work anymore" - what this means is that when you copy the old esp and scripts in, it works and CK doesn't throw an error, but if you update the esp format without recompiling the scripts, the scripts don't work at all anymore and have to be recompiled in order to work. So far I haven't heard enough reports to say which is more likely to be true, although the first is more consistent with Trainwiz's post above.

Expired commented on the updating of SKSE and SkyUI here. That's an essential read for anyone who's curious about what's going to happen, and still our best guess on how that update will go.

Overall the engine is more like Skyrim's engine than FO4 engine. It is updated, but it is not the FO4 engine. Version numbers are like halfway between Skyrim versions and FO4 versions for things like nif format.

A few more points: Boris (ENB dev) gave his take here. So ENB won't be as cool as it is for Skyrim (old edition). But it may not be needed either; the lighting in FO4 looks pretty nice even without ENB. Nexus shared their plans here. ModPicker, for its part, will almost certainly make a separate section for SSE mods.

The bit about Scaleform is some good news since the main guy behind SkyUI already said he wasn't interested in updating SkyUI for SkyrimSE.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Oct 19, 2016

# ¿ Oct 19, 2016 13:04

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

A Game of Chess posted:

Not at the moment but I'm gonna try and follow instructions to generate one when I get home. Still fairly new to this so everything takes me a while.

Skyrim doesn't have a crash log.
People often think the papyrus log is one. That however only logs data related to the scripts that are running. In the very unlikely event a script is the direct cause of a crash, the game will generally have already crashed long before any relevant data might have been logged. Unless you want to debug a script there's no real point to enabling the papyrus log. Having it enabled actually negatively impacts the scripting engine's performance.
Also don't mess with the papyrus .ini settings in general unless you really know what you're doing.

As for your problem. Here are some basic troubleshooting tips for one a single area crashes on you.
Do you have the memory tweak in SKSE enabled? If not, do that and go see if the area crashes.
If it still crashes, make a hard save far away from the crash-area and use the following console commands:
setgs iHoursToRespawnCell 1
setgs iHoursToRespawnCellCleared 1
Wait 2 hours. Then use the following commands:
setgs iHoursToRespawnCell 240
setgs iHoursToRespawnCellCleared 720

That should have reset the area. Go see if the area crashes.
If it still crashes then do you have any mods that affect that area? Or mods that add new spawns to the gameworld? Disable them. Load your save, do reset thing and go check if the crash has been resolved.
If there's still the crash problem, start disabling mods one a time or in small batches and again test things. Note that disabling mods willy nilly like that (in particular mods that use scripts) is a bad idea. It's okay for when you want to quickly test if a mod causes some sort of corruption though.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2016 17:45

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Trustworthy posted:

can I really just keep on using MO when I do my annual reinstall later this year?

Regular Skyrim: MO works fine, so keep using to your heart's content.
Skyrim Special Edition: Nope.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2016 19:17

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Trustworthy posted:

Here have some god-rays and optimization! *An entirely script-based, skill-centric, must-have thing like SPERG is rendered useless*
Obviously I'm missing something obvious and important about what the hell they've been tinkering around with under the hood.

Probably the biggest problem for the SKSE update will be the move from 32-bit to 64-bit. Now, this is in essence a good thing as it allows the game to utilize more memory and can give a performance boost.
The problem is with how the script extender works. Basically as the OS takes the game's executable and loads it into its memory in order to run it, the script extender steps in and shoves its own pieces of code in there. In order for it to do, the script extender needs to know various addresses in the memory. The exact positions where the script extender's code has to be hooked in.
Whenever Bethesda made some changes to their codebase and recompiles the executable, lots of those addresses change. Fortunately a lot stuff will also stay the same. That's why the the script extender team has to release an update after each patch, but can do so fairly quickly as they have a basis to work from.
When you move your codebase from 32-bit to 64-bit however, all addresses change. Which means that the script extender team has no basis to work from and essentially has to redo almost 5 years of work from scratch.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Oct 20, 2016

# ¿ Oct 20, 2016 21:18

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Gorgar posted:

Suddenly Mod Organizer can't connect to Nexus. I verified I'm trying the same username/password that works on the web site. Only thing that's changed is I haven't used the machine much for a few months. MO says it's up to date. Ideas?

Some of the nexus' servers seem to have had some issues. I've seen people claim they saw themselves logged in as someone else, which would indicate caching problems serverside.
I'd wait a couple of hours and then try again.

# ¿ Oct 23, 2016 22:29

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

marktheando posted:

Will hardcore/survival mode mods be possible on PS4? That and being able to dress up my companions properly are the main things I wanted when I heard mods are coming to console.

No on the hardcore/survival mode. At least I'm not aware of any method of implementing that sort of functionality that does not require scripts.
Changing the followers' default outfits to be unequippable is perfectly doable though.

GunnerJ posted:

They hosed console users so that one guy who wanted to write virus mods for console users doesn't have to.

I'm so sorry PS4-players. Honestly, I was just making a stupid PC-master race joke.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Oct 25, 2016

# ¿ Oct 25, 2016 15:02

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

So the SkyrimSE Nexus page is up: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/
And in their rush to get those mad Internet superstar points by being the first ones to post mods, people who haven't have access to the Special Edition or the CK-beta already uploaded unconverted mods. :rolleyes:

No links because it seems like the Nexus is doing an adequate job of shutting that down, but be aware that people blindly copying their skyrim mod page over can be a thing.

The guys behind xEdit did have early acces to the SE and already updated it: SSEdit

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Oct 26, 2016

# ¿ Oct 26, 2016 19:57

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

To be honest, I was hoping for a little bit more. Especially with regards to character models. But I suppose redoing the animations, faces or even just the armour meshes would have been way too much work. It's a free upgrade so I'm not complaining, but still some hair/cloth physics would have been nice.

Psion posted:

Also where is the Skyrim SE creation kit, I don't see it in my tools menu in Steam like the regular CK.

Right now it's still in a closed beta. With mods coming to consoles, Bethesda probably didn't want people flooding Bethesda.net with a metric fuckton of low effort crap on launchday.
It'll be released next week. Also I don't think I've seen any statement about it, but it'll probably be released via the Bethesda Launcher just like the F4CK.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Oct 28, 2016

# ¿ Oct 28, 2016 10:20

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Scyantific posted:

Anyone aware if Chesko is working on SSE versions of his survival mods? I'm at the point where that sort of stuff feels like a native feature instead of a mod.

He was one of the modders who got early access to get his mods up time for launch.

# ¿ Oct 28, 2016 15:19

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

Mediocrity Goggles posted:

I didn't expect much either, expected skyrim straight ported to FO4 engine, and got exactly that. Though it very clearly lost some texture fidelity in the process.

So about that...

quote:

Bethesda decided to upscale a large amount of textures, doubling their size. Upscaling a texture from 512x512 to 1024x1024 or whatever is generally considered a bad plan because all it does is blur things or add noise and not actually improve image quality. Bethesda has used a sort of automated upscale-noise-filtering system to make the textures a bit more...noisy. It does make them ever so slightly less blurry, but it also adds dithering, which isn't good. I suppose it is a toss up on which is better. Here's some comparisons: rug, bear pelt.

For reference, the original release (with HighRes DLC) had 898 architecture files for 825mb. SE has 898 architecture files for 1.91gb. So yeah...technically I should update all my vanilla texture edits to use these new "high res" textures...but like I said, I don't believe any of these larger textures are actually from high res art sources.

If that's really true then that's just hilarious.
Edit: Here are some more details: https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/59va9l/skyrim_se_texture_report/?st=iuu5w8qi&sh=8b0428ca
I generally don't like to complain about free stuff, but that's still some low effort right there.

I've also seen people complain about a downgrade in sound quality due to the SE using a heavily compressed audio file format. I haven't noticed any real difference, but that could be because I'm using pair of crappy, cheap speakers at the moment.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Oct 28, 2016

# ¿ Oct 28, 2016 16:26

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# ¿ May 5, 2024 02:38

Raygereio: Nov 12, 2012

docbeard posted:

So is there really any reason right now to use Skyrim SE if you're on PC? It certainly doesn't sound as though the potential gains of a 64-bit DX11 engine have yet translated into real performance improvements.
I imagine the answer to this could be very different in a few months, though.

I've been giggling over Bethesda upscaling their textures and calling 4k as if they're a modder who just read the baby's first GIMP tutorial. But the base SE game does look a bit prettier and ran smoothly on my machine. Then again other people have been reporting lots of stability and/or performance issues. So if you got the SE for free, test it and see in which camp you fall.

If you're planning a playthrough, it is probably best to wait a couple of months though. Especially if you still have a modded setup of OldSkyrim that you're happy with. As is always the case with a new release, it's going to take a while for things to stabilize in the modding community. Right now one of the problems is people blindly copying over their mod from OldSkyrim. For example like this guy.. At least he owned up to when called out for it. But the new CK comes next week, could you really not wait a couple of days for those precious Nexus endorsements?
Its like modders using xSnip despite knowing perfectly well that it can cause problems all over again.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Oct 29, 2016

# ¿ Oct 29, 2016 16:33

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Skyrim Modding: You see that sword? You can fuck it

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