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makere
Jan 14, 2012
Anyone knows why the 850 EVO prices have jump up a lot? Also any decent alternatives? (long life is more important to me than speed.)

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makere
Jan 14, 2012

Naffer posted:

I have a 240GB PNY 8LR8 Pro that I bought about 4 years go and used relatively lightly. At the time, it had rather positive reviews. About a month or two ago I noticed something seemed off, and after benchmarking it realized that while reads were fine, writes to the SSD had slowed to a trickle. Random and sequential writes of ~ 3MB/s. I backed it up, swapped it and formatted and trimmed it but it's still hosed even empty. Should I chuck it in the bin or does anyone have any idea how to rescue or repurpose it?

I checked PNY's website and they 1) don't have any firmware for it anymore and 2) don't have software to secure erase it.
I'm never buying anything but Intel or Samsung again.

We actually bought 10x XLR8 to our company and started to experience similar issues.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

Eletriarnation posted:

No, no, I think you misunderstand - the "lot of bullshit" is what I'm trying to avoid, I'm looking for a drive that will just plug in and work.

Let me know when the new motherboard and processor and 16GB DDR4 aren't $500+ on top of buying the SSD itself and I'll get right on that option instead.

Just get modern drive and have multiple boot partitions, one at the drive itself and one at the end of the secondary sata drive.
This way once you migrate, it's easy to delete the secondary partition and expand the data partition on the extra disk.

Once you learn how, it is pretty painless to create new boot partitions.

makere
Jan 14, 2012
As the last of the 5x PNY XLR8 we bought in 2014 fails, taking data with it, I would put PNY to "avoid"-list.

makere
Jan 14, 2012
This is drifting slightly off topic, but has anyone configured windows server 2016 storage spaces with SSD caching? How is the real world performance?

makere
Jan 14, 2012

anothergod posted:

I'm making a demo machine to show off my indie game, and I'm looking for a cheap SSD to decrease any kind of boot times I would have in case I ever have to restart. I'm looking at this Kingston A400, and for $30 it seems like the right price for something I'll be using maybe 20 days a year. Let me know if any of you have personal horror stories re: this drive or Kingston SSDs OR hero stories for any other cheap SSD. Thanks much.

Well Kingston is known for swapping SSD internals to cheaper/worse ones without changing model name.

Also 120GB is getting pretty small by nowadays standards, I would rather get something like 250GB WD Blue instead.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

anothergod posted:

Swapping internals sounds super shady. Tbh, I don't really need much more than Windows + 60MB for my indie game, so small sizes isn't exactly a detriment (is it?). I just found this Crucial BX500 which is barely more expensive than the Kingston, and it seems as though Crucial's on the OP recommended list?

If I need to do serious file storage, I might get a 7200RPM drive for recording video to, but... I think that's all I need, yeah?

I used to run 120GB SSD as a dedicated Windows drive, would have to do clean up monthly and barely had any space left. With 250GB you will have a much nicer life with less time spent on managing free space (how cheap is your time?)

makere
Jan 14, 2012

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

It won't boot from nvme, unless you can find or create a modded bios.

I've been thinking about this, wouldn't it be possible in windows to create boot partition on secondary disk (e.g. tiny thumb drive) and store the windows partition on the NVMe drive?

Has anyone tried this or can come up with any reason why it wouldn't work?

makere
Jan 14, 2012
Talking about failures, the dozen Intel 530s we acquired at my workplace some years ago, are starting to fail one by one. The read/write speed basicly drops to unusable level for no reason.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

endlessmonotony posted:

We've got discounts.

PNY CS900 120gb is as cheap as 14eur. I'm thinking of updating everything still booting off spinning rust.

Anyone got experiences with the specific model or PNY SSDs in general?

We had 10x older PNY SSDs at work, I think all of them have failed (slowdown to a crawl in couple years), would not buy to myself.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

Endymion FRS MK1 posted:

That being said would you think it'd be good for jamming into an Xbox One? The current generation is swappable right? I've wanted to do that for my daughter since her S is only 500gb

Xbox One isn't designed for hdd swap, it's doable though.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

TorakFade posted:

This is interesting... How do I recognize which ones have this phison e12 controller? Is that something that is on spec sheets? Never saw much info about controllers in online shops

It's usually in the spec sheet or just Google the cheapest nvme drives you find. Sadly there's substantial premium on these drives in Europe.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

peepsalot posted:

Welp, I guess I just got lucky on that run. It was going well for many hours, then I stopped the workload and restarted it and the same issue happened again. So back to the original question: should I be looking to return this drive or is there anything else to check at this point?

What if you disable XMP?

makere
Jan 14, 2012

peepsalot posted:

I tried this briefly, and while I couldn't reproduce the drive errors with XMP off, I don't consider that a viable long term solution. I want the RAM speed that I paid for.

...then I remembered I had previously set another grub parameter "pcie_aspm=off", which was the recommended solution to deal with a bunch of other PCIe errors I was seeing in dmesg, that were coming from my Nvidia GTX 1660.
Since the NVMe problem seems related to power states, I figured I should re-enable pcie_aspm. With that the Nvidia "errors" are back(they don't seem to cause actual problems besides log spam), but NO MORE CRASHES so far(XMP re-enabled also), so I'm keeping things like this for now.

I don't have extensive experience with XMP, but I have heard from many that it barely never works stable.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

Verizian posted:

Looking to get an nvme SSD for my rig with a Z170-a mobo. Max budget is £150 for 1TB. and I'm looking at the Adata XPG SX8200 Pro vs the CORSAIR MP510 960GB. Just want a quick sanity check that these drives aren't going to try and set my PC on fire or murder puppies before the warranty runs out?

MP510 has the Phison E12 controller which many have recommended on the thread before.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

dragon enthusiast posted:

I'm just trying to get a 1TB SSD into my PC before the supposed price hike, and that one happened to be cheaper than the normal SATA drives for reasons I haven't figured out yet.

The actual NVMe drives can be bought with similar price and offer much better performance.

https://www.amazon.com/Silicon-Power-Gen3x4-000MB-SU001TBP34A80M28AB/dp/B07L6GF81L/

makere
Jan 14, 2012
I totally understand the confusion and self-doubt as my first M.2 drive was DOA. Most frustrating thing ever to debug.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

El Grillo posted:

Should maybe post this in tech support sub but there doesn't seem to be a general questions thread there and this is too small for its own thread:

I got an I/O error that prevented me from accessing one of my SSDs at all for about an hour today. It's an old Samsung Evo 840. After running a CHKDSK on command line, it seemed to come back to life and works fine again now. Samsung Magician says it's OK. Is there anything else I should do to check whether it's OK? I checked that the driver is up to date and stuff.

Do you have the latest firmware? There was the fw bug that old data becomes slow.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

Shaocaholica posted:

This machine doesn't support NVMe booting. Can windows bootloader or some other bootloader live on a ACHI drive and then just point to a NVMe?

I asked this before, and you can use Clover-EFI to accomplish this, but was told that it's not worth it for some reason.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

Lamquin posted:

With my old mechanical drive showing its age and a chkdsk reallocated some sectors, I feel it's time to replace it and perhaps also move my OS from my old SATA SSD to an NVME.
The current SSD market in Sweden has SATA at basically the same prices as M.2, so I don't really see a reason not to get an M.2.

I'm wavering between purchasing a 2 TB Kingston KC2500 (1800 SEK) or a Samsung 970 EVO Plus (2200 SEK) to replace my current SATA Samsung EVO 840 (240 GB) as an OS drive. Looking at reviews the Samsung seems to be slightly better, but I'm not sure it's worth the 20% price premium. Is Kingston still on the poo poo list the OP has mentioned?

I would go for the Kingston unless you're made out of money. The reason why Kingston was put on the poo poo list was because they would swap internals (nand/controller) without changing product name, but pretty much all manufacturers do that now.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

NotNut posted:

What's the best way to back up your files? I was thinking of getting an external hard drive for it, but I'm guessing RAID 1 would be a better long term solution since I wouldn't have to manually copy stuff. But if the backup drive was external I feel like that would be safer somehow, because something could happen to my tower but not the drive.

Raid1 is not a backup. Honestly just rent some cloud service with their own backup software and leave it running on the background.

Alternatively the USB drive or permanent internal backup drive are good options, I recommend getting some backup software like Macrium to do the heavy lifting with these, instead of manually juggling files.

makere
Jan 14, 2012
Anyone has experience with NVMe drives and AMD Raid?
My future PC build plan includes 6x 2TB SN770 SSDs in raid0, with 4 on the motherboard and 2 on a PCIE addon card and I'm trying to figure out if I will run into issues with this.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

Klyith posted:

motherboard raid sucks and shouldn't be used on either AMD or intel versus OS/filesystem methods
raid 0 sucks and shouldn't be used for a PC and especially not in a 6(!) drive configuration
there is no conceivable reason where someone who needs that type of bandwidth should be considering mobo raid


But if you want do something immensely stupid, then yes ryzens support 6 NVMe drives (docs for 300-500 say up to 8 drives per array).

The main issue you might have is "2 on a PCIe addon card" -- what PCIe card, you probably need one that isn't dependent on the mobo supporting bifurcation.

I am thinking about the Asus ProArt X670E motherboard and the Asus Hyper M.2 Adapter or other similar bifurcation adapter.
Already checked that I should be able to use 2 NVMes on the second PCIe slot (or 4 in first slot) with the adapter.

My main goal is to get all the discs into single volume (12TB minus overhead), and to be able to expand it in the future. I run weekly/daily backups and I'm not really worried about losing data and the Windows will be on a seperate SATA drive.

I'm mostly worried that if I will even be able to mix the mobo SSDs and expansion slot SSDs into same array, and if the AMD drivers will cause instability.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

Klyith posted:

Expanding in the future is almost certainly a no. Or at least not without getting all data off, recreating the array with more drives, and then putting everything back.
Thanks, I've mainly dealt with raid1/5/6 before, so didn't realise that one can't expand raid0 easily. This might actually make me go with JBOD or Windows storage spaces instead, need to do some research on the storage spaces first.

Klyith posted:

Also the mobo only supports using the Hyper M.2 Adapter with all 4 drives in PCIe slot 1, with the unspoken addendum that slot 2 needs to be empty to do that -- slot 1 and 2 split to 2x8 if you put stuff in both. And slot 3 shares lanes with m.2 #3, so your GPU would be running at x2 speed lmao. So 6 drives is kinda your max.
Right after posting, I noticed myself as well that the first slot will limit itself to 8x if the second one is populated, but I could add 7th drive to the PCIE#3.

Klyith posted:

As I said, you're doing something pretty stupid. If this was for a real purpose, this setup should be on a threadripper or epyc system, because those have plenty of PCIe lanes.
Personally I don't really see the stupid part, I have 6x 2TB NVMe drives and a need for 12TB storage for games and other not that critical stuff, this setup is to replace my current 6x3TB Raid6 HDD setup.

Klyith posted:

Should be difference between the mobo m.2 slots and the PCIe slots, they're all just PCIe. Drivers are fine.
Thanks, this is kinda what I've assumed, but having no experience with AMD platform is making me question myself.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

Klyith posted:

If I really wanted a bigass $800 all-solid setup like this, I would probably choose:
1x 2TB SN770 to host your OS ($120)
3x 4TB P3 as bulk & game storage ($660)

Thanks for the suggestion, but the drives are 0$ as I already have them for various reasons, if I were buying stuff new I wouldn't do it at all, or would go for the 4-8TB drives.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

VostokProgram posted:

The other reason not to use raid0 - yeah you have backups, but if one drive fails do you really want to sit there and copy all 12 TB of data back to the array?? If you really want no redundancy then it's better to use something like a jbod so you only need to recover one drive's data. I think storage spaces or stablebit drivepool can do that.

Some hours over 10Gbit/s ethernet link, it's not business critical data so I can take that downtime.

I might try out raid0 just to see what the performance is like at first, then if there's issues will fall back to storage spaces.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

redeyes posted:

Yeah its block level, not file level. And DONT USE IT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. Its loving trash, lacks basic features.

So AMD raid is trash, storage spaces is trash.

What do we use at Windows without expensive dedicated raid-controller?

makere
Jan 14, 2012

CaptainSarcastic posted:

No offense, but why is it important to have one big pool of storage space instead of just having the 2TB drives be their own things? The only compelling reason I can think of is if you somehow have single files in excess of 2TB, if NTFS can even handle files that big.

I have my Steam library spread over several different drives in my main system, and the only real difference is that some I make sure are on NVMe drives while some I'm content to have on SATA. In my personal experience any attempt to combine different drives into unified storage space inevitably has more downsides than upsides, and in your case being able to use a PCIe card to run two NVMe drives would already be an upside to NOT unifying your storage space.

Having discrete drives doesn't bother me any more than having discrete directories - it's the same thing to my mind only one level up.

I mean, I know everyone is different and has different preferences, but I honestly don't see the point of making everything think it is on C: when having D: and E: usually doesn't cause any problems (aside from the occasional installer which gets very confused if you're using a different drive letter, but even that I think is rare nowadays.)

It's mainly what I currently have, but overall it's just easier for me to manage one mass of storage instead of 6 smaller ones, especially when the space starts to get low.
Example: I can have 600GB free on one volume, or 100GB free on 6 different volumes, then need to do some moving around to be able to fit that 150GB game.

makere
Jan 14, 2012
I used one of high end C2Q on my server until couple years ago with a Sata SSD, it's not great anymore and kinda lags behind on basic tasks. I guess with NVMe your best bet would be to have a storage controller that can handle all 16 lanes of PCIE and distribute the 4x speeds of newer M2 drive to utilize entire bus.

makere
Jan 14, 2012
The free version of macrium is discontinued though.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

Rexxed posted:

This 240GB Intel 530 has been in a VM hypervisor for a long rear end time. I think it had write amplification issues because wow, that is a lot of writes. The only reason I'm looking at it is that the hypervisor dropped it and showed it as inaccessible, so I plugged it into a windows machine to see what's going on. It actually shows up just fine, but I think it's time to replace it anyway.



The original Intel warranty was for 20GB/day for 5 years on these disks so if it's legitimately had 616,819 GB written (602 TB) in 766 days, that's 805GB/day. I doubt that is its real usage. Luckily while this thing was expensive in 2014 or whatever, a 1TB MX500 is like 50 bucks now.

We had couple dozen of those Intel 530s at work at some point, they were one of the worst SSDs we had. So I think you're pretty lucky that it has been working for this long.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

isndl posted:

SSDs are for most purposes irrecoverable if they fail. In theory they can enter read-only mode, but that's largely untested in practice and only applies to certain failure states anyways - you will likely retire that SSD long before you run out of writes, but if the controller bricks itself you're just hosed. There is no recovering the data once the metaphorical map to how everything was stored is gone, because the drive is shuffling things around constantly for wear leveling.

That being said, failure rates on SSDs are incredibly low compared to HDDs, and you should be practicing good backup procedures on important data anyways.

Most of the SSD failures I have seen have been recoverable. Some went some insanely slow mode, but allowed to clone it, others might've been unrecognizable in Windows, but Linux copied data off happily. Often times HDDs still spin for a long time in "failure mode", and user only notices once it dies completely and is unrecoverable.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

MREBoy posted:

So what's a recommendation for a 2TB 2280, with main factor being the price skewed towards the inexpensive (but not total crap) end of the pool ? Building a grandma a new machine (upgrading from an i3 4160 with spinner drive) so a current gen machine with just about any M.2 drive is probably going to blow her mind with the speed difference. Usage profile would be Solitare, email & web browsing with occasional Zooms with the grandkids on the other side of the country.

Pretty happy with the WD SN770 drives I got.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

kliras posted:

yeah that slot is basically dead to me. hell if i'm going to wrestle my d15 every time i want to manage something there

by the way, are motherboard screws for nvme's standardized? i remember when you still needed the screws that came with the motherboard, and while i did keep mine, i couldn't fit any of my screwdrivers in it, and the drat plastic crap got stripped like crazy, so now my drive is just sort of inserted so i can get it out again

You can buy a bag of M2 screws, with the standoffs.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

Instant Grat posted:

Looks like the cheapest replacement right now is the Adata Legend 700. Any reason not to grab one of those?

I have seen some youtuber making pc repair shorts and the dead SSD is always Adata.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

Black Griffon posted:

I asked about a Kingston a few pages ago and got recommended better alternatives, but none of them were discounted for Black Interval of Time. This (different) Kingston does have a discount, however. For a few more hours.

https://www.komplett.no/product/1201391/datautstyr/lagring/harddiskerssd/ssd-m2/kingston-fury-renegade-pcie-m2-nvme-ssd-2tb

Still risky business, or could this one be good?

I'd say that more expensive Kingston is okay, cheaper ones I would think twice.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

How are Inland brand drives? MicroCenter is usually pretty solid on other stuff

At least before they were solid, just standard drives with Phison controller.

makere
Jan 14, 2012

Subjunctive posted:

Before what?

Couple years ago, I haven't been keeping up-to-date.

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makere
Jan 14, 2012
What's relatively cheap pcie4 SSD that runs nicely without a heatsink (with decent airflow)?

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