Christianity Thread II: Y'all need Jesus

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Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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my dad posted:

I am in no position to be a secret santa to anyone, so count me out.

Aww, we'll gift you anyway dude. I'm unemployed on my 12th year on and off, but I'll craft y'all some nice things.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2016 15:44

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 12:32

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Cythereal posted:

Personally, I find the idea that man is innately tainted to be comforting. No matter how badly or often I screw up, I can remind myself that we simply aren't capable of being perfect and I'm not special for screwing up.

Accepting that humanity is deeply flawed, without calling it wrong, is one of the greatest gifts christian thinking has given us. We're not either angels or devils, sinners or saints, but divided between both.

I'm not okay, and you're not okay, but that's okay, to coin a phrase. Accepting our imperfection and doing our best is one of the most amazing challenges that life offers us.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2016 20:15

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Rodrigo Diaz posted:

OK if Christianity is Socialism the Orthodox are Mensheviks the Catholics are Stalinists, the Lutherans are Trots, the Calvinists are anarcho syndicalist, and the unitarians are crystal healers.

Mormons are mussolini c. 1919

Edit: I know barely anything about these different branches of socialism I just wanted to make a joke.

As an anarcho-syndicalist, I will ask you to refrain from making the comparison, it would make both anarchists and calvinists sad :anarchists:

# ¿ Oct 23, 2016 16:35

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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I'm back from a seminar, and was told that( direct quote) "my God is not big enough". It translates badly, but essentially the teacher thought I had found faith but not trust in the divine, because I was still caught up too much with worry and regret over my life. I tend to agree, and have shifted my prayers to ask for the ability to trust in God.

If anyone itt could tell me about their personal level of trust in God, and how they came to have it, I would be very grateful. I find that I can believe in God just fine, but I still find myself wanting to control life and unable to trust that whatever has to happen, will happen.

Rodrigo Diaz posted:

No.

I suppose I could see Calvinists being kind of touched that someone would associate with workerism, but the whole revolution thing is decidedly undoctrinal :allears:

# ¿ Oct 24, 2016 08:32

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Caufman posted:

I like your question a lot! It aims to get to the heart of a believer.

I'd characterize my level of trust in God by saying that I have to die daily to myself. Day after day I am beset by doubts and find myself surrendering to those doubts. They can sound like a dissatisfaction with the real sadness, anger, and misery I feel in myself or have to observe helplessly. I have to let these feelings live their life and then die, and I have to die to them so that something more important, a calling from God to love, can live in me. And I know this struggle can happen tomorrow or the next day, and it can happen while I'm talking to a family member or to a stranger, and it will be a struggle because this is a ministry.

I trust, though, that for all the mistakes that I have made today, and all the mistakes that were made by everybody, this day could not have gone any differently. It happened exactly as it should, as it must have by the laws that govern the universe. And I try my best not to doubt that this is orchestrated by a God that is love.

But lastly, I want to say that wanting to control life (presumably your own) is not incompatible or even contrary to trusting God. Epictetus was right, "Some things are in your control and others are not." The things over which you have control happen in the sight of God. Though I couldn't tell you any better than a fortune cookie what you are called to control, I have great faith that you can discern this through your own rapport with God.

Thanks, this is really good stuff

I guess I meant that I try to control the universe: other people, institutions, uncontrollable entities - because I cannot bear the universe as it is.

HEY GAL posted:

Things are constantly happening, causing other things, and we live within them--which means that we live within God. Whether bad things or good things are happening to you personally right now, we still all live within God, it's impossible for anything to be abandoned.

That's well and good on an intellectual level, but it does not make me trust in God to protect me.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2016 14:01

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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JcDent posted:

Well, thinking that Christianity is quid-pro-quo is sorta prosperity gospel, no? Bad stuff can and will happen in, but that's peanuts from God's perspective.

Or something. I'm not well-versed in this thing.

My baptismal(?) saint, Francis de Sales, has a prayer I try to say every morning.

That's really good, thanks! Well, I'm in 12 step, and we specifically have to be able to give our lives over completely to our higher power, and so that is the kind of relationship with the divine I'm going for.

It's not demanding anything from God as much as giving our fear and anger to him, so we can live our lives free of addiction.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2016 14:52

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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The Phlegmatist posted:

Nice.

Anyway I think spirituality is a learned skill much like anything else. Turning your life over to God gets easier the more that you do it. Clearly God does not protect you from suffering; I mean crack open a random hagiography and it's probably gonna be like "was holy, lived in a world of poo poo, was brutally murdered." What matters though is not avoidance of suffering but how religion allows you to suffer well.

To put it into the context of AA, it's about releasing yourself from the need to manipulate your own emotional state via drugs and alcohol and develop spirituality as a coping method via turning your life over to your higher power. That's sorta what I think Bill W. was going for anyway.

I can't really recommend any spiritual exercises for you since you're one of those heretic Thor worshipers and I'm honestly not sure what you guys even do except make black metal, but I can say that reading Christian mystics, particularly St. Therese of Lisieux, has helped me grow into humble obedience before God.

We worship Thor, clearly :p That said, I don't understand why I cannot use a particular exercise just because I'm not part of a particular liturgical club.

Oh, I remember being very interested in Therese of Lisieux! I should really check her out - do you know of a good place to start?

# ¿ Oct 24, 2016 19:07

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Caufman posted:

I feel your pain. Let out as much of it as you want.

I think if comprehending the universe didn't feel unbearable, Jesus would not have wept blood in the Garden.

True - but that said, there's good to be had in it as well. The cup did not pass us by, and so we have the option to face adversity with courage.

HEY GAL posted:

so's Dale Reed.

And Pete Burns

# ¿ Oct 24, 2016 21:12

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Thank you all. I still feel too dumb to 'get' the concept of perfect trust in God, but your verses and recommendations really are helping me! I spent the better part of two hours reading about Therese of Lisieux yesterday, and if nothing else, I strongly appreciate her Little Way.

StashAugustine posted:

If might is right, then love has no place in the world. It may be so, it may be so. But I don't have the strength to live in a world like that, Rodrigo.

True! I prefer "But in truth nothing could prepare me for the beauty of the limb that I had come here to sever." though

Also, reading up on it, I gotta hand it to Altamirano for saying the Liturgigoonest Thing:

quote:

With an orchestra, the Jesuits could have subdued the entire continent.

The Phlegmatist posted:

St. Therese of Lisieux wasn't a super prolific writer. Dying at the age of 24 tends to do that to you. The place to begin and the end are the same place: The Story of A Soul.

Which is available online. It's super Catholic though; I'll try to hunt around for a more accessible commentary.

r ip jack chick I'll be eating the death cookie on Easter Vigil in your honor

Oh cool! If you do, please let me know.

Thirteen Orphans posted:

Google isn't helping, who are Dale Reed and Pete Burns?

And Pete Burns is the lead singer from Dead or Alive, noted for his groundbreaking androgynous fashions in the 80s, and recently for the horrible consequences of the failed plastic surgeries he's had. It's a shame it came to that, because he's one of the classic beauties from the era.

ed: this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZACBEW_B8s

Apocron posted:

Personally these are the verses I always cling to:

This is amazing. I'm reminded of Thoreau asked on his deadbad, if he had any sense of things to come, and replying "One world at a time".

# ¿ Oct 25, 2016 07:58

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Man Whore posted:

the concept of televangelists makes me wish someone would go full on cleansing of the temple.

Never too late. I confront other faithful when it's clear they're up to no good, apathy is a much greater asset to these people than money or television.

# ¿ Oct 28, 2016 13:09

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Lutha Mahtin posted:

Yes, and while I admit I am not an expert on St. Jude, it just really sits wrong with me to look at charity and social programs for lower-class people, and package them into a box labeled "desperation/giving up". To me this is incompatible with much of the Gospel, as it places a second-class humanity onto those who find themselves in the position to receive such aid, and denies the transformative power of loving one's neighbor.

I know this wasn't what zonohedron meant, but it's definitely a common viewpoint in our society. I've been on social security payments for 13 years on and off, and there's nothing I want more than to go out there and work, but I can't because of a self-contradictory, time/paper-consuming bureaucratic behemoth that makes the Adeptus Administratum look like a fast checkout lane.

# ¿ Oct 29, 2016 11:52

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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cerror posted:

This seems like a good place to ask about faith. I'd like to know about faith, in general, and how one comes to develop it from a position of no faith (or a position of doubt in one's faith). Faith is something I don't honestly think I've ever experienced, in a religious sense, and so it's a bit baffling to me. So, if one feels inclined towards religious belief, but cannot find a way to rationalize it, how does faith occur and grow? Does the Spinoza definition of God count for purposes of faith?

Any recommendations for reading material on the topic, or personal input, would be awesome.

I came to faith from no faith. Basically, I prayed for willingness to believe in my (divinity of choice), and for signs of their help in my daily life. The signs came, in the shape of a miracolous recovery from a disease I have, and I have tried to strengthen and develop the relationship from there.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2016 19:27

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Mr Enderby posted:

tl;dr I've somehow managed to live my life so far without noticing that "love thy neighbour" is a hard command to follow.

As I've said so often when these things come up, spiritually we humans are imperfect beings. Striving towards following the command is all we are ever capable of, but if we choose to strive, we attain spiritual growth. Spiritual perfection is for saints and angels, but we shall become found by searching for it.

And I'm not coming from some high and mighty grasp of things either, I judge other people harshly every single day - but I know that I must work towards loving them, and in knowing I become better at it with time.

# ¿ Nov 1, 2016 10:33

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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my dad posted:

Tias, what evil pagan rituals have you been up to recently?

Facebook has been spamming me with suggestions that I might be interested in attending Midgardsblot. Am I going to have to check my ~~house~~ 13 square meter living space for vikings looking for a sacrifice or something?

No such thing, I'm afraid. The next blot is Vinterblot in the middle of December. I have been praying that you all are well, though, so maybe getting crunk on mj�d and praising the old gods is just in G-rocks plan for you?

# ¿ Nov 1, 2016 11:33

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Valiantman posted:

:protestantsay: side remark, if it's allowed: Forgiveness is 100% free and actually already earned for everyone but it's not forced on those who don't want it.

Basically the same thing you said but as a person who often struggles with feelings of inadequateness and outright guilt I find the phrasing important. Asking for forgiveness is hard when you (rightly) feel you don't deserve it.

A good protestantsay!

We should not wreck ourselves with our poor self-worth, because God probably doesn't.

# ¿ Nov 1, 2016 14:07

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Hillary would probably have started a couple more wars, so I'm not really convinced we ended worse off, but he's definitely going down as the worst prez in history.

Remember to get active in local politics, politicians can't do anything to you you're willing to fight them for.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 11:34

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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HEY GAL posted:

they can kill me, Tias

i am speaking to you with the weight of my specialty behind it but trust me. It has been worse.

Jase, but you can kill them too. You're from a long line of pike-wielding bad asses, are you just going to sit there and take it?

HEY GAL posted:

well i prayed to god for things to go well with this English guy i am seeing and now we agreed that we'll get married to get me out of the US so i am engaged now

it was me, i did this

Congratulations!

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 14:59

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Well, it's not a good explanation, it's just the one that makes sense to them( because they're pants-on-head insane).

# ¿ Nov 9, 2016 19:29

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Pellisworth posted:

dammit why is English so weird

(Danish is worse, sorry Tias it's mostly gargling noises)

jeg vil som vi skal vaere venner? jeg boede i Glostrup paa efteraare 2007 og min dansk er horrible

Apparently ability to pronounce Danish is genetic and I have a gift for the swallowing and vomiting of Danish syllables

Denmark was pretty cool (and wet, seriously your weather loving sucks)

e: which is to say, please poly-marriage me and let me escape to your socialist utopia of pickled fish and liquor

Don't start, I haven't forgiven you for calling me a swamp scandinavian( or was that JcDent? I forget).

Actually, we've had neo-con/xenophobe governance for 10 years, and are placing asylum seekers in concentration camps. Liquor abounds, though if you're marrying me there will be none of that mister :colbert:

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

the entire material world works on monkey's paw principles, dehumanize yourself and face to gnosticism

What are monkey's paw principles :confused:

Tias fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Nov 10, 2016

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 10:55

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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HEY GAL posted:

there is a famous short story in the english language about a magical severed monkey's paw that grants your wish...but in a darkly hosed up form, so you turn out worse than if you had made the wish. so english people and americans use "monkey's paw" as a shorthand for that.

I've read it, but how am I to understand the phrase "the entire material world works on monkey's paw principles", idgi

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 11:08

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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HEY GAL posted:

"everything is out to gently caress you and only if you're lucky will it use lube"

Ah. I will face to gnosticism, then :getin:

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 11:19

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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JcDent posted:

You had him at "lube"

E: Pretty sure that it wasn't me who called you a swamp scandinavian. The only swamp-somethings are the swamp mongols north of Estonia

Found it!

PPELLISOWOOORTH posted:

Tias probably has better knowledge of it, being a swamp Scandinavian, but wasn't the Norwegian mass-murderer Anders Breivik sort of Christian? Or at least his manifesto and ranting are coming from a fundamentalist right-wing Christian perspective even if he himself wasn't particularly devout.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 12:07

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Tuxedo Catfish posted:

The answer to your question is in the article.

With apologies to Tias, it's like trying to rehabilitate "skinhead."

No worries, I ain't even trying any longer

HEY GAL posted:

they were, as tias will probably remind us, the original skinheads as well

Naw, traditional skinheads were black, but mostly cared about dancing and football. The formation of specifically antifascist skinhead milieus only happened in the 80s after neo-nazism started co-opting the traditional style.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 22:35

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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JcDent posted:

There's some surprising depth to skindheadism, apparently

It gets around. For instance, Red and Anarchist Skin Heads (RASH :haw:

) was formed after black SHARP members killed a gay man back in the late eighties. Today there are tons of active fraction, including a large gay/lesbian skinhead scene :eng101:

Just don't ask me about shoelaces, I'll be fine /shakes

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 22:43

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Oh since a lot of y'all get the happy spaz over Mary, check out this cool and good traditional folk song about her:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps6sHgbqQSQ

The arrangement may be a bit progressive for some tastes, but since John Renbourn( pbuh) can do no wrong, said tastes can go suck a lemon

# ¿ Nov 12, 2016 21:38

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Caufman posted:

On the topic of abortion, I also observe that it is incomplete for an American Christian to consider the killing of embryos and fetuses to be the only debasement of human life that they will hold their government accountable for.

not touching the A-bomb, but really, hypocricy is the hall-mark of right-wing christianity. They love nuclear weapons and death penalties for people they already didn't like, too.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2016 07:58

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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WerrWaaa posted:

You will know a theology by its fruits.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2016 20:23

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Mo Tzu posted:

it hurts if you don't do it right

...i rarely do it right

Don't shame people who like it when it hurts :colbert:

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 09:39

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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HEY GAL posted:

don't injure yourself, friend

In years of BDSM fun I've never gotten a fraction of the injuries than I did from one day of drinking :priorities:

Aren't you the person who gets hit in the head with pikes for recreational purposes :confused:

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 09:55

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Unless this is some weird thing where you can't get boners because of Jesus watching you, I really don't understand why you wouldn't want to work out what you consider most pleasurable in life.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 11:58

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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JcDent posted:

Not having a boner can be a terrifying thing in certain situations!

Yeah, this is definitely my least preferred boner problem.

Thirteen Orphans posted:

If this was about my post I feel the need to let you know that my post about gettin' boners while doing Wing Chun was a joke.

More about the BDSM thing, though I would in fact encourage you to develop a boner-centric kung fu, if nothing else to please your spouse!

Mo Tzu posted:

She isn't, because when informed of the reality she doesn't try to convince me it didn't happen but instead goes, "oh. oh god."

Also you really don't realize how hosed up your childhood was until you mention things like this and people go, "oh my god that's horrible." Oops.

My parents are alcoholic too, and so am I. It's basically a cycle of poo poo, and I doubt I would ever have moved on if I didn't forgive them.

# ¿ Nov 16, 2016 11:47

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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For a milquetoast culture-protestant nation, we danes take our christian history seriously. poo poo seriously.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2016 11:03

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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HEY GAL posted:

for a first step, you can look up your name, figure out which saint you were named after, and read their hagiography. or the patron saint of your profession/something to do with your life history

well OF COURSE I was named for the loving tax collector, patron saint of bankers :eng99:

# ¿ Nov 18, 2016 12:47

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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HEY GAL posted:

stop posting things that lead to your real names in this thread people, tias i am looking at you

I really don't worry too much about being doxxed, I keep an axe in the house at all times.

HEY GAL posted:

goon project: everyone itt do something cool, but keep it secret

This. Cooldoing is cool, bragging about rarely is.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2016 15:33

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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HEY GAL posted:

if you worship jesus as well as your gods, keep in mind that this is exactly what he wants you to do: help others and don't brag about it.

I know. I do love to brag, though

# ¿ Nov 19, 2016 15:58

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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The Phlegmatist posted:

I dunno. I think it's okay to talk about what you're doing so that people know opportunities are out there. Like at my last church we had an ecumenical ministry program (there were a bunch of local Protestant churches participating in it and collecting offerings for it) that created transitional housing for homeless people in the community. We even got a couple grants from the city after we could demonstrate that transitional housing, getting homeless people back to work and getting them on Medicaid, providing rehab expensive or trips to AA/NA meetings if they needed it to get them sober etc. actually saved money for the community as a whole in the long run due to the decreased need to law enforcement involvement (jail-time and court time) and write-offs from the local hospitals due to ER visits from indigent homeless patients.

I mean it's not really bragging but it was a cool thing that we were doing for the community and I enjoyed talking about it, and talking about it at various churches is how we actually got donations to do what we were doing anyway.

Oh no doubt. When I mean I love bragging, I'm talking about talking myself up and blowing up my share of projects, nothing that will actually benefit people.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2016 18:33

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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HEY GAL posted:

i think there's a difference between being happy about doing something, or happy at being good at it, and bragging. As I see it, the fault is trying to pretend you're more moral than you are, or like the pharisee say "it's a good thing I'm not less good, like those other people".

content:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/19/pope-francis-decries-epidemic-of-animosity-toward-minorities

Did I mention I love judging others, especially in matters of morality? :eng99:

I perfectly understand what I must aspire to, and I will say that on days where I remember to pray not to judge others, I don't. I mean, don't get me wrong, I know my behaviour is wrong, but no matter how hard I try I do worse than the people around me - what has begun to matter to me is that I try, and that every time I do it to others, I make amends.

I can't really excuse it, either, I just think an abnormally lovely growing up has left me fuller of bile than other people - and I believe it can go away with time and effort, so there's no point in being too hard on myself about it.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2016 09:33

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Also, if you take the new testament at face value, the old laws made by the angry god is no longer in effect. He might still be angry, though v :shobon:

# ¿ Nov 20, 2016 18:08

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Ceciltron posted:

It's just real weird more like.

Or expedient. I live in a nation with a protestant state church, and all our farming exports( which is a lot!) are halal and kosher and have been since the 70s for marketing reasons - and the church condones this because, loosely quoted, it doesnt harm anybody to respect others worship of God.

# ¿ Nov 23, 2016 11:16

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 12:32

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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Lutha Mahtin posted:

lol if u dont multiclass

If being a christian worshipper of the old gods was good enough for a mighty jarl ca. 1060 it's good enough for me :black101:

# ¿ Nov 23, 2016 14:20

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Christianity Thread II: Y'all need Jesus

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