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my dad posted:I may actually change my mind about the, uh, I especially
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Sep 20, 2016 19:45
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OP if it gets lurkers to stop lurking and 
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Worthleast posted:Post the sweetest Church music you got. Christian Rock is not Church music, for it is neither good Christianity, nor good rock. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AhiSYk1zVLQ For real though, that band's songwriter draws most inspiration from Beethoven and other contemporary superstars. Valiantman fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Sep 20, 2016 |
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Sep 20, 2016 20:17
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Pellisworth posted:Hmm, is it generally true across Europe that church isn't a big social affair with food and such? I guess that would surprise me. There might be coffee afterwards sometimes if there's a visitor to the parish, like a missionary or something. Or some breakfast oatmeal if it's a family service. Might be different in some places but I'd say that's the rule of thumb in Finland. You come, you sit and chant, you maybe receive the Eucharist, you leave. It's likely you speak to no one and that's not because of Finnish stereotypes. It sucks big time.
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Sep 23, 2016 12:21
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Mr Enderby posted:That's kind of sad. Maybe start something up? Honestly, apart from people with their kids, I'd guess most people who make time for church on a Sunday would be willing/glad to have a biscuit and a chat afterwards. Many city parishes have actually started offering after-coffees. It may have some effect. I think there are multiple factors to why church isn't a social thing around here anymore. Staying to chat used to belong to Sundays but that was in a time where people lived even more apart, didn't have easy transportation and didn't have newspapers or more modern media channels. Eating together is not traditional and it kinda has to be invented. (Actually it's not a church thing only - people don't gather together in large numbers like they used to. For example many sports clubs are in trouble.) One big thing is, however, that the age-old tradition of doing stuff together in benefit of others or the whole community (which even has a term of it's own in Finnish: "kökkä") is slowly eroding. People will pay for food whenever our parish has a soup sale and happily either eat their lunch there or buy soup home for later. It's getting five people to assist the cook that's horribly hard. Also, your parishes won't probably function if people stop participating. Having 200 people in a parish means that you feel you're part of it. The parish I belong to has about 2000 people and in local scale it's absolutely miniscule rural parish. Non-participation is the norm. We have seven paid employees, we're not a community as much as a literally tax-paid service provider. But we'll do what we can and may God help us to reach out for more people.
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Sep 24, 2016 11:02
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Thirteen Orphans posted:Edit: I should add, being holy doesn't mean you pray more often; it means you love God, your neighbor, and yourself more. I'm not butting in to the conversation otherwise since Ceciltron asked Catholics to reply but this one made my theses nailing hand twitch a bit so I have to ask for a clarification. Do you mean that being a more loving person is a consequence of holiness or that you become holier by loving more? Or something else?
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Sep 26, 2016 08:55
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Pellisworth posted:this all seems in line with Lutheranism Yeah, I agree. Thanks for the more elaborate answer, I figured that's roughly what you meant but since language isn't always the same on different sides of the fence, I thought it won't hurt to ask.
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Sep 26, 2016 11:03
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Pellisworth posted:I mean sure, I don't understand God as having a sex or gender at all, or at least not in our human sense. Jesus' physical body was male but there's really no mention of his sexuality in the New Testament and the traditional Christian understanding is he was celibate until his death. Personally I'm perfectly ok with Jesus portrayed as androgynous, asexual, or agendered because it's not relevant. Clearly it wasn't a big enough thing for him to speak to himself. Although, he did convince Origen to castrate himself: Wow, that is a big difference in translation. In the Finnish translation there is nothing about eunuchs. The passage talks about those who are unfit (sounds harsher in English, our word doesn't assign blame) for marriage either from birth, are made so by other people or choose to stay unmarried for the Kingdom of God. Obviously this covers eunuchs but monastics too, and, especially nowadays, quite a few wonder if this might be a rare reference to homosexuality.
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Sep 29, 2016 07:07
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Bel_Canto wrote well. I'll add that the reason for there being four gospels in the Bible is probably trustworthiness. For the first decades there were likely several different eyewitnesses of Jesus who told their stories and people started writing them down eventually. When it was time to decide on the Bible canon, four of those writings/collections survived the scrutiny and were included. There's a metaphorical exercise where a group plays a match of, say, football and later the leader of a group asks four members of the group to tell what happened in the game. The point is that their stories will likely be mostly the same at least when it comes to major things like goals and fouls but different people will remember (or value) different things and some details might even be contradictory. All agree they're describing the same game though, so given the lack of a visual or auditory recording it's probably best to keep all four stories side by side and read them all.
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Oct 6, 2016 18:58
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Smoking Crow posted:im going to post this again That's...disturbing. You can't keep going without continues if Balrog beats you. And Bison cheats anyway.
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Oct 16, 2016 19:36
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"I tried tapping that small icon but no app started up!" "Try double-tapping." 
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Oct 16, 2016 19:56
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System Metternich posted:I don't remember if this was explained the last time this video came up, but what is happening here? Is there a strand of Evangelicalism where the ministers are throwing Holy Spirit bombs at the audience? Why is the one guy hitting people with his jacket? What is going on? I don't actually know but in some circles fainting or falling down in the middle of a prayer is understood to potentially be a sign of the power of the Holy Spirit. I'm pretty sure that's a compilation of some more enthusiastic ministers trying their hardest to achieve that. Such a belief tends to have every undesirable side effect you can likely imagine, though to be fair I know a few people who probably wouldn't be susceptible to suggestion yet have still fallen. 
Valiantman fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Oct 17, 2016 |
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Oct 17, 2016 00:05
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System Metternich posted:Maybe an explanation of the rosary is in order for all non-Catholics itt: Wow, thanks. I had no idea what the Rosary meant, other than it's some beads and people hold it in their hands sometimes when praying. That's some serious time used for meditation. How long does it usually take to pray it?
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Oct 19, 2016 10:12
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Expanding on StashAugustine's tax collector trivia: if you were a tax collector for the Romans you were either part of the occupation machine or collaborating with it (which might be even worse depending on the point of view). This in itself might be viewed by some as a crime against the God's chosen people but it's not something Jesus seemed to mind at all. The worse thing is that yes, tax collectors were often almost legalized thieves. They had the protection of the Romans so you couldn't really touch them and get away with it and they told you how much taxes you had to pay. Because they themselves needed to live, they collected more than what they had to pay forward. Combined with the aforementioned immunity that's world's easiest get-rich-scheme. Want some cash? Tell people they need to pay more and keep the extra.
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Oct 20, 2016 20:47
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Man Whore posted:Has he even sought repentance or forgiveness? :protestantsay: side remark, if it's allowed: Forgiveness is 100% free and actually already earned for everyone but it's not forced on those who don't want it. Basically the same thing you said but as a person who often struggles with feelings of inadequateness and outright guilt I find the phrasing important. Asking for forgiveness is hard when you (rightly) feel you don't deserve it.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:05
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JcDent posted:You had him at "lube" I'd shank you but I have my leg stuck in my backyard bog. e: and getting help would require social contact, sober
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Nov 10, 2016 15:44
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I hate to be that guy but there must be one whenever a joke is told.
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Nov 12, 2016 21:13
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Arsenic Lupin posted:The problem is that LGBTQ people have heard "love the sinner, hate the sin" too often, and somehow in action it always translates into "be unkind or actively cruel to the sinner". There's a whole lot of "We love you, but..." out there, and as we all know, anything that follows the "but" in sentences is apt to contradict the lead-in. Thanks for this post. I was wondering why "love the sinner, hate the sin" would be bad since it seems to be a very good guideline. In fact I often teach teens about love and morals a bit like that but in a different language obviously, so we don't have the attitude as a common phrase. I suspected there's something I don't understand from behind the cultural/language barrier. People suck.
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Nov 13, 2016 17:41
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Not even the experts know the origin of my name even though it's at least a few hundred years old.
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Nov 18, 2016 23:00
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Finland's (and consequently Europe's) biggest Christian youth festival is at full steam again. Yesterday's evening mass featured a large youth orchestra playing and singing Baba Yetu during the passing of collection  e: The priest specifically thanked them for it before the formal send-off of the congregation at the end. Valiantman fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Nov 19, 2016 |
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Nov 19, 2016 12:36
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Josef bugman posted:Okay then, just as a quick thing, but how do you deal with people who do not have Faith. Capitialised here to mean faith in any sort of direct divinity. A personal God/salvation thingamajig. I like Deteriorata's and Lutha Mahtin's replies to 1 & 3. I'd just like to add that according to some literary research, the Book of Job has lot of markings of a... err, legend, for the lack of a better word (the concepts of historicity and even truth were different back then). Regardless of it "actually happening" or not, it has trappings of a dramatically enhanced story. I'd file it among the other wisdom literature in the Bible and approach it that way. About C.S. Lewis, apparently many people in this thread have dim views of different degrees of him and his writings so before any more people line up to tell them, let me just say that there's at least one person who likes his writing a lot. While he was clearly a man of his time, regarding his values, he doesn't pretend to be anything else and in my opinion it is unfair to read malice or the like into his writings.Screwtape Letters is one of the best books I've ever read. Do note that besides Narnia, I've read only four (translated) books of his.
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Nov 28, 2016 01:43
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" without getting other peoples ideas.
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Not an actual historian but I'd say evangelising. Judaism doesn't really do that, Christianity has it built-in. Also God's guidance.
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Nov 29, 2016 16:25
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SirPhoebos posted:Can you explain how Christianity has evangelizing built in? Others explained it already but in case you don't wish to google the terms, both Matthew and Mark end their gospels with Jesus, as a last thing he says before ascending to Heaven, ordering the disciples to the ends of the earth and baptize and teach until all creation knows of the salvation he's earned. He also promises to accompany them until the end of the world. That is just the biggest and most important part, though. Much of the New Testament sets an example for evangelizing and encourages it. Valiantman fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 02:11
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This is a poor metaphor, not meant for deep analysis or anything, but it's a simple one that loiters sort of in the same neighbourhood as proper replies: Say I have a dog. I do all kinds of stuff with my dog and I do all kinds of stuff for my dog. The dog sees some of what I do and since it's not dumb it probably understands lot of my intentions and attitudes right. Because it's dog, however, it cannot possibly comprehend stuff like vaccines, me leaving him home while I work for 8 hours or my reasoning for discipline training. Now, relationship between me and my imaginary dog is fairly certainly nothing like the relationship between God and mankind but in both relationships one is able to comprehend and see and experience things the other cannot even begin to imagine.
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Nov 30, 2016 10:20
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Lutha Mahtin posted:again, the reason you have this problem in the first place is because you yourself have decided that it is axiomatic the text describes God acting "like an arsehole". in reality this is not axiomatic, but is in fact simply your interpretation of, and/or projection onto the text. multiple people have been telling you this for pages now, so im not sure what else there is to be said really I don't know, I think it's okay if we're talking about what he gets out of the Book of Job. If he feels strongly that Job describes God as malicious to some degree, it's a starting point for a discussion. Not sure if that discussion goes anywhere but as long as people are listening to each other there's potential for understanding even if you can't feel or understand how the others see the issue right away. I can't get over the idea that according to Mark the disciples were huge idiots because it's an interpretation that speaks to me and makes me feel better about myself. I'm sure someone wiser than me has a better or more nuanced explanation for their bumbling about but I'm not sure if I'd really get that explanation over mine unless given time.
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Nov 30, 2016 14:10
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Deteriorata posted:And my point is, that is what Job is all about. You may not like it, but that's the book of Job's perspective. I like a lot (a lot!) how one preacher I heard as a teenager first framed the problem of evil and then, paraphrasing, told the listeners that it's fine and good to be interested in theory and dogma but the real question you should be asking is "what am I going to do about it?". That's the best solution I've heard. Go on and do something about that evil that obviously is a huge problem! Don't stay in the sidelines, be a part of the solution!
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Nov 30, 2016 17:28
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Josef bugman posted:Yes, but if you were to beat the dog based on it's actions when you trained it then it is your fault that the dog is like that. It's a perspective certainly, but I am unsure as to how much it can be considered. There is a difference between something that does no active harm and something that does good and something that seems to have no good part of it. You come back to the dog at the end of the 8 hours. God does not come back. Despite my double-disclaimer you read too much into that metaphor.  It was only for elaborating (insufficently) that there are sentient beings that cannot comprehend other sentient beings and that's a part of their nature. Human/God is one such relationship. We can't study God and if he's to reveal something about himself to us, it must be in a way we can comprehend it.
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Nov 30, 2016 23:14
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pidan posted:There are some protestant groups who claim that 100% of their religious views come straight from the bible (sola scriptura) That's not what sola scriptura means.  All it means is that in case of a conflict, the Bible wins - that there can't be no authority higher than it or equal to it in religious matters.
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Dec 1, 2016 07:22
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Lutha Mahtin posted:Christianity Thread II: the shortest Bible verse is about my posting?? drat. I was confused for a while since in Finnish the shortest is "Don't kill." You're not that bad a poster. 
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Dec 1, 2016 15:58
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Josef bugman posted:Is there anything that all Christian sects, or the larger ones lets say, believe is an evil? Depends on the definition of evil but the ten commandments are at least a solid basis for what is and isn't wrong. One could assume that deliberately doing things that you know to be wrong and could avoid doing is evil. I strongly dislike the use of the word evil when talking about other people, though. In a world ridden with sin, weakness in the face of moral choices is pretty much the norm so labeling "evil" on people and deeds often assumes more than one can possibly know. And can be kinda evil in itself.
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Dec 12, 2016 15:06
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Lutha Mahtin posted:did you really just say this, itt, to a goon with a reformation superhero avatar I may have to apologise, too, but you've not exactly shown anything to counter his interpretation. I'm not taking sides but with that tone you should really offer something else than "I disagree". For what it's worth (and I do think the Finnish Bible translation is very good), it seems apparent that while Jesus doesn't actually condemn the woman sleeping around with men (since it seems his point is just to show that he knows about the woman's life), that's exactly what he refers to. The words "living with" appear in the newest translation and the older ones, who are more word-centric instead of meaning-centric talk about "having a husband who is not your husband".
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Dec 14, 2016 09:43
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The Phlegmatist posted:could you please stop reading The Shack? I'd like to hear people's opinions on that book. A friend loaned it to me last spring and while I was skeptical, I found the story really good in giving food for thought. As long as I believed the author and went in with the attitude that everything in the book is fiction, including the theology, I enjoyed it. A unique book among my library of books I've read. Normally even religious fictions take their theology really seriously and have a teaching tone in them. This one didn't, for me, but I'm sure many people quote it as nearly dogmatic.
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Dec 15, 2016 20:18
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Bel_Canto posted:I'm not terribly fond of it, precisely because, as you said, the theology is pure fiction. Granted, I'm also deeply uncomfortable with anything other than an allegorical depiction of God the Father, no matter how progressive it might be. I guess there's nothing particularly wrong with people reading it just for pleasure, though I don't think it's particularly well-written either, but I think that reading it in the context of Christian theology is a severe mistake. I never felt like it grappled with the problems of evil and death in a serious way; it shares the too-common fault of Christian fiction of attempting to resolve all of its reader's doubts instead of accompanying them in uncertainty and affirming that nobody needs to have the answers to find holiness. I have to agree with everything you said, except one. I've never read a non-allegorical depiction of Father so the novelty of it was one of the major courses in the thought-meal. Weird, I agree with all the faults yet I still liked reading it.
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Dec 15, 2016 21:43
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WerrWaaa posted:Everyone finish this sentence. One time at Christian camp we had such a great music class that it ended up spawning a band/music group that recorded three cds worth of original songs and played at most to 2500ish people. To my knowledge about a quarter of those people still either have a career in music or at least play/sing in concerts to this day.
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Dec 18, 2016 00:36
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my dad posted:What's church camp? What is it, actually? I mean, I know what it is here in Finland and I have some idea about American evangelical camps mostly through horror stories but do share.
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Dec 18, 2016 20:16
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How big are your camps? I mean, a camp of multiple weeks is already something that goes WAY beyond normal around here. Roughly a week seems to be the norm, maybe 12 days if it's a confirmation school camp by a non-parish organization. Younger kids might stay for a couple of nights in their camps. Outside summer vacations you obviously can't camp for longer than a weekend no matter the age. The church regulations heavily recommend one employee per 10 underage kids so costs shoot up fast if you go for too big or too long. I guess more populous parishes might even have 100 strong camps if they have a good place for it but 20-50 participants seems more normal to me. Sex and drugs sounds completely alien. I might be a bit naive but I've yet to come across a camp where such thing would even be possible on the regular. Sure, some clever couple might manage to get some private time on some rare camp but supervision is normally really strict due to safety regulations. (Not specifically in order to prevent them from doing anything forbidden, just to keep them accounted for.) Even cigarettes usually get you caught so it's hard to imagine drugs would pass unnoticed easily. Other than that, it seems the activities aren't too different. Valiantman fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Dec 18, 2016 |
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Dec 18, 2016 23:40
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Josef bugman posted:having a conversation 
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Dec 20, 2016 08:59
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Yeah, I meant to ask but forgot: what is bad in intinction? Why couldn't you mix the bread and wine before your mouth, theologically? It's not a very rare practice. Tossing out used disposable cups is nothing special either, since the belief in real presence that us Lutherans have means that while Jesus is truly and secretly present in the bread and wine during the communion, they don't actually change so after the communion is received, it's (again) just bread and wine. Yeah, you handle it with reverence and respect but sure, you can reuse them if there are lot of leftovers and using the aforementioned disposable cups isn't any way more problematic than washing the fancy goblets.
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Dec 27, 2016 00:36
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 I venerate this thread.
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Dec 30, 2016 12:13
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Cats are overrated compared to the crippling lack of pig(let)s. Why aren't there more snouts and oinks outside congregational houses? All the rural parishes, please remedy this immediately. e: You Darklands enthusiasts: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3803613 Valiantman fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Jan 2, 2017 12:22
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syscall girl posted:I don't understand it but all of the Muslims I know are not insane murderers. Guess I'm just lucky that way. Well, every muslim I know is an insane murderer. I don't know any. e: Oh wait, the local ethnic pizzeria guy is probably at least culturally muslim. And he bakes really good pizzas so he can't be bad. I was wrong.
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Jan 3, 2017 22:18
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