DoctorWhat posted:

It's Laurel Lance under the mask (hooray!)

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

I'm sure some people will handwave away all complaints about Zoom because "he's crazy".

He can be crazy and poorly written.

Guy Goodbody posted:

When you go back in time the old you dissolves and you replace them in the timeline, unless you're planning to go forward in time again, in which case the old you sticks around, right?

But if you go forward in time, there's just two yous there indefinitely

Scyantific posted:

Zoom became Black Racer so prolly not.

Rhyno posted:

In the vibe she was full on Frost so yeah, Cisco is probably the one who goes bad. Savitar probably shows how easy it is to save Dante and that sways him.

rapeface posted:

I thought Caitlin turned bad because she was merging with her Flashpoint self, who was bad. Isn't that how it's been working?

Guy A. Person posted:

I'm not a fan of the dentist either but I wouldn't say that makes her evil

Aphrodite posted:

Her powers make her colder. It's a classic dumb comics pun.

Doktor Per posted:

If the writers are absolutely terrible. I think her fear of becoming Killer Frost, going coocoo bananas was the real motivating factor, like, they've been setting it up pretty hard since Season 2. She's traumatized by a dimensional doppelganger who she fears she's fated to become. She does these things because it makes sense. She's turning into her. It allows more moral flexibility. Kinda like how muscles like this! put it.

It's only in a rare case of Barry actually not loving everything up, that lets her believe that she is not the Killer Frost she met.

I'm actually kind of liking the writing this season. I think Iris is wrong as gently caress about Barry's competence, but her point of view totally makes sense. She might just understand that the justice system does not serve minorities / outsiders well, and gently caress, meta-humans need someone to protect their human rights.

MiddleOne posted:

Am I operating on a different plane of reality from the rest of you? The Killer Frost diatribe was the worst written villain turn I have ever seen. The episode basically went like this,

1. I'm normal Caitlyn but oh no I have too use my poooooweeeers I'll go craaaaaazy
2. I'm Killer Frost and I'm just going to murder this Alchemy henchmen and try to kill Julian now because craaaaaaazy
3. I'm Killer Frost but I can't kill precious Barry who I horrifyingly maimed and tried to freeze to death just 10 minutes ago because who knows
4. I'm now normal Caitlyn again after a stern talking to, everything is forgotten and my personality is back where it started! Motivations? Who needs 'em.

Clearly this was a nuanced, complex and completely logical character development that could not have been done in any better way. We even have a villain this season who's entire superpower is his ability to turn anyone into a villain regardless of their character motivation, so why would they go for this? I get it, they've been teasing her turn for forever and this is something that they've really wanted to do but why can't they even try to come up with actual reasons for things happening? Oh wait no, this is a procedural which means that any character not a guest-actor can't ever lose screen-time for any reason. Can't give anyone actual motivations because then that reset button wouldn't be so easy to hit at the end of the episode.

Ah forget it. What I hate about this show is that unlike Arrow (which has been garbage masked by ok action scenes all along) and Legends of Tomorrow (which is great now that it's fully self-aware) it actually seemed like a decent show at some point instead of the garbage we've been fed since the season 1 finale. This show is on my short list of shows, like Dexter and Under the Dome, that I follow solely to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Aphrodite posted:

Psychosomatic eye color change. it's a big problem.

There's literally a visual cue for her bad guy moments.

Medullah posted:

Clearly this season is setting up a Saw/Flash crossover what with Alchemy being Jigsaw. Last year Zoom was Candyman.

evilmiera posted:

So as someone who finally ditched this show last season, has it gotten any better? At all?

evilmiera posted:

Well, what would you say makes it better than last season? I really liked the first season for the most part, much like I did Green Arrow.

bring back old gbs posted:

HAhaha I never did drugs... because I was always afraid I'd see weird stuff...

Bad Moon posted:

nine-gear crow posted:

If Mick and Ray get their own show, they need to have Kara on like twice a season. The Adventures of Heatwave, Haircut, and Skirt

Rhyno posted:

It really wasn't.

Oracle posted:

Maybe they're assuming its Evil Barry who Future Barry warned them about.

nine-gear crow posted:

You know, given his general level of 5-steps-ahead dickishness, I'm thinking that the message was actually sent by Eobard posing as Barry to get everyone to be paranoid and mistrustful of Barry, purely because he's a delightful time troll. Barry just happening to be a massive gently caress up just works in Thawne's favor.

Mortanis posted:

Uh, Harrison Wells of Earth 2 is History's Biggest Diiiiiiick.

Aphrodite posted:

Rhyno's life is pain and suffering.

Aphrodite posted:

She's still coming back this season, just not starting now.

I assume Barry is going to gently caress up big and cause major changes. Again. Maybe even tonight? They'd have to do it in a cross-over or that's a hell of a "Previously on..."

AbsolutelySane posted:

The problem is, if you want to get down to brass tacks, Thawne created gently caress-up Barry because he didn't like the previous, responsible version of Barry. Probably because Good Barry was always foiling his plans while not loving up the timeline. It's a shame we never got to meet Good Barry.

MiddleOne posted:

Sue me.

Magnusth posted:

Batman only has one good villain.

I'M RAS AL GHUL

Guy A. Person posted:

OH that reminds me I'm actually a little disappointed the had Earth-3 Trickster on for like 1 minute of screen time.

muscles like this! posted:

Is it just me or was Iris way over-dressed for a party that was just their close friends?

Bozart posted:

Yeah I can't wait for the writers to forget that when this new lady comes looking for him and isn't like "hmm no wells here!"

Guy A. Person posted:

I've been watching this on loop for 15 minutes, it is mesmerizing

lotus circle posted:

Honestly I'm annoyed cause it seemed at first we'd finally get a Caitlin plot that didn't involve romance. But the second Julian stopped being an evil dick he became available so the writers are like "gently caress it" because they're incapable of writing a woman who isn't in a relationship with some dude.

Guy Goodbody posted:

They established he had a family, and what they were like, and his history with them. We saw his family, we saw him interacting with his family. Cisco's relationships outside Team Flash drove the story of an episode, and were a factor in the post-Flashpoint drama. It wasn't until this season that they confirmed Caitlyn was of woman born. The fact that Cisco makes movie references is proof that he does something when not on screen. They haven't done that with Caitlyn. For all we know, she could turn to stone when the camera isn't on her.

STAC Goat posted:

I just don't think "nerd references" is really a worthwhile character trait to laud. I agree that Caitlin is very poorly developed, I just think that while Cisco is better developed than Caitlyn he's still a pretty shallow character compared to Barry and the Wests.

MiddleOne posted:

Nah, you need to go dumber. He'll turn into Savitar.