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I think trying to project farther than about six months in politics is basically pointless and speculating on whether or not Hillary could win a second term when she still has to win the first one. To use a trite analogy, let's go back and time and ask people in March of 2001 what they think of the possibility of a massive scale multi-location terrorist attack on US soil using airplanes as weapons, that kill thousands of people. Usually it's not that extreme, but hey, only five years ago we were having the Arab Spring and the original debt ceiling crisis. A lot can change in politics very quickly.
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Oct 1, 2016 10:34
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Concordat posted:If the majority of state governments are still held by republicans when the next census is taken, I bet we're going to see some very creative district maps. Lmao what the gently caress. I might need a new reference point for "unimaginable political event nobody saw coming" then. 
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Oct 1, 2016 11:09
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Nichael posted:If or when they give up the culture war stuff, I am sure they will find a decent supply of ill-informed libertarians. That entire ideology is incredibly appealing to a lot of people because they don't put in the effort to research it more than five minutes. It is much harder to explain to voters why you should keep taxes than just say "Get government out of your money!" Libertarianism doesn't do well when it gets exposed to any kind of mass scrutiny. It's an ideology built on a house of cards and predicated on the assumption that you're too privileged or stupid to care. That is the fundamental problem for conservatives. You can pay lip service to fiscal conservatism and libertarianism all you like but people don't actually want that poo poo en masse. What they want, in the end, is welfare for whites and upholding the status quo against women, LGBT people, and ethnic minorities. There's just not a whole lot of places for the Republican Party to go. Theyre kind of stuck.
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Oct 1, 2016 11:19
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I mean, we basically have two main long-term problems. The most immediate one is that we're basically guaranteed a recession soon. That doesn't necessarily mean it will be a big gently caress off one like 2008 that destroys Hillary's presidency but it's not helpful and voters are too stupid to make any other conclusion than "Democrat is president, ergo recession is Democrat's fault." The more long-term one is that climate change is still going to bend the world over a rail and nobody is doing nearly enough about it. Usually I don't like moral weight arguments, about whether or not this or that issue of the Left is more important, but climate change has basically reached the point where it actually does matter more than everything else and we kind of need to fix it now. I don't know how we accomplish that when most of the country doesn't even believe it's a problem, but...
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Oct 1, 2016 11:56
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Grundulum posted:Unhappily for this outlook, there are lots of other countries in the world that are still reliant on fossil fuels for energy production. Even if the US takes the lead and makes a massive shift towards baseline nuclear and green support, it's still a lot to ask of developing nations that they give up easy, cheap energy that they may already have within their borders. Assuming for a moment we could even win the political battle to force the US to abandon fossil fuels for renewable energy, ensuring everyone else falls in line for the sake of a future for the planet isn't necessarily out of reach for the United States and justifiable under the notion that most developing nations will suffer much worse than us if we just let climate change get out of hand. I would rather not have to disperse renewable energy policy at gunpoint to the Third World, but we massively dropped the ball on fixing climate change when it was a small problem and now we're trying to put out a chemical spill with water while dipshits ask in the background if there's really a fire at all and if there is, was it us that dropped the match and are you sure it's gonna burn our house down? JosefStalinator posted:Don't forget that Russia is encouraging ignorance on climate change by adopting conservative rhetoric/conspiracy theories, and serving as a second source of climate skepticism! gently caress the Russians. Putin is such a shithead.
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Oct 1, 2016 12:49
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Considering how much of a monumental idiot Farage is I consider this to be a good development. It certainly doesn't indicate Trump is looking for a nuanced or more articulate performance.
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Oct 1, 2016 13:03
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canepazzo posted:https://twitter.com/TheMichaelMoran/status/781943960575041537 Lmao oh yeah, "boycott sex against your liberal wives," as if your wife would want to sleep with you after pulling a stunt like that. Actually any woman who would be able to live with a husband with that kind of sheer gulf in opinion and worldview is living on a whole other plane of existence in tolerance from me, so... 
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Oct 1, 2016 13:15
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Hillary's Body Double for President, 2016. There's something hilariously ironic about the idea that when the Russians finally found success undermining liberal democracy and funding subversive, extremist political groups in Western countries to promote dangerous ideals, it's as a fascist autocracy spreading white supremacy, misogyny, and homophobia, instead of a communist power spreading socialism.
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Oct 1, 2016 13:51
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VH4Ever posted:Is Trump actually going to sit and do the work though? Reports came out that he basically couldn't stay focused for more than a little while and got bored with the Ailes-led prep because he sincerely thinks he doesn't need it. Either way it's not a positive for him. Even if he were capable of being coached, nobody who is competent enough to debate Hillary Clinton wants anything to do with the Trump Campaign right now.
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Oct 1, 2016 14:11
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Can someone fill me in on the basement dweller non-scandal? I missed what's going on and I'm at work.
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Oct 2, 2016 01:01
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Endorph posted:we just explained it four posts above you dude I skipped ahead because I'm in a hurry. Also I meant as in, an article or link or whatever. I understood the summary. Using the phrase "basement dweller" to describe people you aren't trying to poo poo on is highly inadvisable, but at the same time, even if I could hypothetically feel personally insulted by it - being somebody who is working through college with increasing student loan burden and temporarily staying with my parents again - it shouldn't change the fact that Hillary is still objectively the best choice for President and anybody with half a brain should understand that.
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Oct 2, 2016 01:09
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It's not like electing a sweeping reformer who wants to burn it all down would do us any good in the current political climate. So long as the Republican Party is both totally useless and in control of a majority of the country, expecting major change or sweeping progress is like hoping for fairy dust raining from a flying unicorn from Mars. This wouldn't be completely horrible if not for climate change, though.
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Oct 2, 2016 01:50
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Covok posted:This makes me miss civility in American politics. It used to be a thing. The whole waxing nostalgia for the supposed halcyon days of civility and compromise in politics by liberals and centrists is incredibly silly. There used to be civility and compromise because all the politicians used to be old white dudes who only really concerned themselves with old white dude problems, at best paying lip service to other people's problems mattering. We don't have that any more because increasingly, non-white people, LGBT people, and women have a voice in politics and white people are incapable of being civil with them, and compromise is impossible when the baseline stakes are "treat me as a human being, or not." The era people pine for is never coming back.
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Oct 2, 2016 08:22
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The loving Cell picture sells the poo poo out of this lmao.
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Oct 2, 2016 09:12
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The most curious part of the 4chan story is discovering that the Minecraft founder is a shitheel, imo. I got my dad to vote for Hillary. I feel accomplished. Also he told me he voted for Obama in 2008, which I didn't know. I this find myself in the bizarre position of knowing my dad has worse political opinions than my mom but a better voting record.
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Oct 4, 2016 15:36
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theflyingorc posted:Notch is a completely average game making dude who struck the goddamn lottery of "right product right time" I have no doubt. I don't play Minecraft or know anything about its history, I just found that casual mention at the end to be out of left field. I kind of just always assume that the creators of popular artistic ventures aren't bad people until proven otherwise, unless it plainly shows in their work.
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Oct 4, 2016 16:05
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 what thread were you nerds in, in C-SPAM? I kind of want to observe the silliness that is resulting in such bad avatars.Also you share that picture as an avatar with an actual lovely Trump supporter and now it's going to confuse the poo poo out of me between the three of you. 
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Oct 4, 2016 16:40
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JazzFlight posted:Haha, I never realized this, but Gizmodo pointed out that Tim Kaine looks like the lead singer of the band Future Islands. Tim Kaine is actually an American superhero. America's Dad by day, American rockstar by night. 
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Oct 4, 2016 16:55
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Personally, I hope that immigration comes up and Kaine just gives his whole answer in Spanish.
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Oct 4, 2016 17:31
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Doctor Butts posted:I disagree. The Biden/Ryan debates absolutely, mercilessly slaughtered any hopes Ryan had of becoming a president. Biden showed the world how much of an empty suit the 'wonk' was. I don't know about that. I think Speaker of the House has done that more than anything, the debate just retroactively fits into that narrative. I think Ryan could have won a primary in 2016 or 2020, or at least had as much of a chance as any Rubio or Cruz or whatever, he just doesn't appeal to the Republican base in the same way that your average Trump, Carson, or Huckabee does. The monster they've created wants Ted Nugent for president, not Paul Ryan's perpetual College Republican. edit: cant cook creole bream posted:As much as I like this scenario, wouldn't that be a bit presumptive? It basically implies that all Immigrants are Hispanic. Obviously that's the vast majority, but if e.g. a Canadian asks a question and gets an answer in a language he doesn't even speak he would probably be irritated at least. The immigration issue as a political wedge issue is defined realistically as people being mad about Hispanic and Muslim immigrants, and furthermore the comedy value of Pence and the moderator being dumbfounded because they don't speak the language would be priceless.
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Oct 4, 2016 17:39
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Cop Porn Popper posted:Who wouldn't want her to dress like that? Or in sweat pants. I really just want a president that chills in sweat pants, is that too much to ask? I mean, poo poo. If she had run at 48 instead of 68 a whole generation of young American men would've had to deal with the President of the United States also being a bona fide sex symbol.  Bill please, what are you doing? 
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Oct 4, 2016 19:21
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Ivanka wanted a pony ride but he had just lost a billion dollars again so he had to improvise. I'm pretty sure no amount of lost money is gonna stop Donald Trump from giving Ivanka a pony ride.
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Oct 4, 2016 20:44
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hiddenriverninja posted:I have to wonder how she feels about how her father feels about her. Like, does she hate him but has to be quiet to not be written out of a will? I dunno. I feel kind of bad for her, what with the incest-driven fascist con man for a father, but on the other hand she's not a shining paragon of virtue either and she's still going to come out of it immensely rich and sheltered for life, so... Like she doesn't deserve constant sexual harassment but outside of that particular issue I'm not going to trip over myself to worry about the well-being of a rich white chick.
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Oct 4, 2016 20:56
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WeAreTheRomans posted:She grew up with a legally-invulnerable dad who is probably a violent rapist and makes frequent public comments about her sexual appeal. I'd say her childhood may well have been worse than we know. Oh absolutely. Her having to grow up with Donald Trump is a travesty. I just think that at this point, what's done is done, and she's going to come out of it rich and important, so what are you going to do? It doesn't justify anything, but I also feel like we should remember that she's not particularly nice herself to people she percieves as lessers. Those two things don't cancel each other out in some kind of elaborate moral calculus though. It's more about viewing her as a whole person independent of her relationship to Donald Trump.
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Oct 4, 2016 21:07
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ImpAtom posted:I hope it comes up because I despise every single person who thinks that lawyers should intentionally throw cases because their client (MAY HAVE) did a bad thing I mean, it's hard to reconcile the idea that there's an entire class of lawyers in our justice system that exist to defend people you're taught your whole life are evil, even to the point that they might successfully get someone guilty free and cost a victim their justice. Most people don't have the mental patience to work through how no system is perfect and that we can't just run roughshod over defendants because we'd send more innocent people to jail than we'd allow guilty people to go free, to say nothing of the racism and sexism involved. It's all a nasty, dirty business.
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Oct 4, 2016 21:17
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Eschers Basement posted:Didn't work out well for Kennedy  Personally, I'm down for a Cory Booker Topless President run. The ladies deserve something too. Edit: quote:I would think that "unjustly accused person" being such a common thing in films/books/TV/ect would give people some basis for at least acknowledging the idea. Yeah, but for each "innocent man wrongly accused" narrative, how many lurid stories of bad men getting away with murder with slick lawyers are there? I mean, even OJ wasn't that long ago. Or even now, for some people, look at the police. 
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Oct 4, 2016 21:23
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Aerox posted:"Guccifer 2.0" (The Russian Government) released screenshots of a supposed Clinton Foundation hack, with folders conveniently titled "Emails" and "Pay to Play." Ok, I don't even believe that is an actual hack leak because what the gently caress dumbass would label the folder pay to play? quote:Cops don't count, the slick lawyers getting them out of murder charges are prosecutors. I dunno. I've heard a lot of people my parents' age (~50-55) use it as an example of how the whole system is rigged and bad. Something to the effect of "they won't keep gangbangers in jail, and now they won't even prosecute corrupt cops!" Like they're so close, too. 
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Oct 4, 2016 21:27
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Can confirm that Hillary's attack ads on Trump's comments against veterans, and the Biden video, are super effective on people who aren't ultra Republican. I got tears out of the people I showed them too.
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Oct 5, 2016 01:56
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Ugh the debate is literally unwatchable, Pence is just spouting garbage and there's nothing Kaine can do about it. This must've been what the first debate of 2012 was like for you guys.
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Oct 5, 2016 02:17
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BUG JUG posted:pence is playing the 'gosh let me just explain this to you in plain terms' game and he's doing really well. he's gonna be dangerous in 2020 Nah Kaine is just bad at debate. You don't realize the whole "Hillary is a woman who's been talked down to and over her whole life so she knows how to listen and how to respond in detail" thing until you watch an overeager dude rush head first into easy baits and traps. Obama, Biden, or Hillary would walk all over Pence because they would be ready for his routine. Actually Kaine versus Pence really does remind me of round one of Obama versus Romney, where he didn't prepare for Romney to just straight up make poo poo up. Kaine isn't handling it as well as Obama did and Obama got owned as per consensus (I disagree, but people are dumb).
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Oct 5, 2016 02:47
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I don't believe this debate will matter. It certainly won't after Trump self-destructs in the next debate. It makes me sad that Kaine will be written off as a bad politician when he's just a bad debater. I'm also terrified of a Mike Pence 2020 run because he's a lot better this debate poo poo than Romney or Ryan was, but altogether so much worse than either of them.
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Oct 5, 2016 02:59
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ImpAtom posted:No, he's a bad politician. This is worse than Trump's showing and only less relevant because it's the VP debates. Uh, Kaine is giving facts and good policy positions and was a good governor and senator, so no, he's not a bad politician. Not being good in a 1 on 1 public speaking event doesn't make you incompetent. Trump isn't incompetent because he can't debate, he's incompetent because he's a hateful fascist con man.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:07
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ImpAtom posted:Getting absolutely stomped on in a debate where your opponent is making easily refutable lies? Yes, that's being a bad politician. Pence isn't any less a hateful fascists con man than Trump is, Kaine is just getting hilariously walked on. So? What is he supposed to do about it? Kaine says a fact, Pence says a lie, moderator says nothing. There's nothing more he can do about it because he has no objective means to prove Pence wrong. And again, being a good politician doesn't require you be good public speaker. We expect that of people to get elected, not to make law. Don't conflate the two and give credence to the notion that it matters.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:13
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Jackard posted:There hasn't been a single drat fact check and maybe Kaine would stop freaking out if he didn't have to do the moderator's job for her This, yeah. Any single one of us would be infuriated if put against a College Republican doing what Pence is doing with nobody else there with a loving laptop and Google to be like "nope, that's wrong." When nobody is providing fact checking a debate is literally pointless bullshit.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:16
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The actually scary part of this debate is that this is what Democratic presidential candidates have to look forward to for the rest of time. Next election in 2020 there won't be any easy Trump style crazy people to poke with a stick until they self-destruct in a ball of fiery rage. You'll just get smug white jackasses calmly and directly lying for 90 minutes and rejecting any and all attempts to connect with reality.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:20
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Quorum posted:This is what frustrates me. Fortunately that smug douchebag will be dealing with a demographic mix that's 4 years less white and more Latino. Ideally. I mean I shouldn't be surprised since this was the Romney/Ryan strategy and Obama and Biden basically handled it once they were properly prepared and ready, but Democrats need to realize and accept that Obama and Biden are special and one of the reasons is that they own at public speaking and debate. Most people aren't that great at that, and furthermore being a good public speaker doesn't necessarily make you qualified to hold office - see most Republicans that are good at public speaking. Tim Kaine is entirely qualified to hold office and do his job, but that doesn't mean he can sit in a room with a literal comic book villain and debate the merits of banning the X-Men with him with no proper moderator fact checking.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:25
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Nephzinho posted:So before the womb you say? #Life begins at ejaculation. Of course conservatives would think that, life begins with the male penis, women are just borrowing it and that's why they can't be allowed to have abortions: they're destroying male property. 
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Oct 5, 2016 03:27
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ImpAtom posted:That was just a complete disaster for Kaine, Jesus. You keep saying this and keep ignoring that there was nothing he could do. Him being aggressive prevented Pence from just walking all over him with lies, and absent a competent moderator there's nothing more that he could do. Like what did you want him to do if the moderator will not fact-check live? Be nice and quiet and polite and turn it into a milquetoast "debate" that legitimizes Republican talking points and allows Pence to downplay Trump's stupidity?
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Oct 5, 2016 03:41
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WampaLord posted:NBC News is calling out Kaine for talking over the moderator, and frankly, I can't blame them for doing that. Any moderator who won't live fact check might as well not show up to the debate. You're literally worse than useless if you can't be bothered to do basic poo poo like that. Pence "won" this in the same way Romney "won" the first debate in 2012, by literally just straight up making up bullshit and relying on his opponent to be unable to do anything about it without sufficient independent fact-checking. It's a classic gish gallop and it works.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:44
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If this actually gets declared a tie by the media and the general public then y'all can shut the gently caress up about Kaine being bad because that's a minor miracle.
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Oct 5, 2016 03:47
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