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Space Cadet Omoly posted:So anyway, politics: I think the Trump presidency will end up being about the same as a combination of the George W. Bush years and the Reagan administration. So, ya know, not great for anyone except the hyper rich but we'll get through it just like we got through those other two. The problem isn't Trump's policies, none have been enacted yet. The problem is his campaign of normalization of racism, sexual assault and fascism. And 50% of voters looked at this and said "yes, I want this." Voting for Trump because he promised you a job, or you like his hair or you hate Hillary for her warhawkism is still explicitly a vote for the normalization of racism, sexual assault and fascism. There is no check-box for "only the jobs part of Trump," his voters bought the whole hog and that in itself is disturbing. Donald Trump's electoral victory is a defeat for this country in a way that GWB was not and McCain or Romney would not have been, even if Trump ushers in a 1000 years of liberal darkness. His election is next-level bad because he is an explicit racist, boastful sexual assaulter, and a fascist demagogue and roughly 50 million Americans said "this is fine as long as I get something I want."
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Nov 10, 2016 18:41
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sit on my Facebook posted:The white supremacists can't and shouldn't be helped. gently caress 'em. However, regardless of whether you want to admit it or not, white supremacists are not the reason Trump is president, he's president in spite of them. The democrats have to become the American Labour party if they want to survive in any capacity beyond minority opposition. We can build a party that's racially inclusive, respects women, and genuinely advocates for the working class. These things are not mutually exclusive. Slapfighting about who's last racist is not going to help anything. Let's talk about organizing or communities instead maybe? Be the change you wanna see? How does this work when the other party will just change to what you said plus more and by the way, <a racism>. Trump just made poo poo up to garner votes from white people and also engaged in racism, boasted about sexual assault and called one of his accusers ugly, claimed he would nuke the terrorists and turn NATO into a protection racket, and so on. And 50% of voters still voted for him. What policy proposals are better than fantasy? Maybe we should play realpolitik and throw racial, gender and sexual minorities under the bus to get back into power, but what proposals do you use when your opponent is saying he'll start trade wars? I don't agree with playing realpolitik in this case, but I can't even figure out how it could be done even if I wanted to.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:02
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Sweet, it has been two days and his campaign is already sweeping his horrible statements under the rug as just "campaign rhetoric." This is good, maybe the next Trump can win on starting (totally not real, just campaign rhetoric!) concentration camps but promise some white folks they'll get their (dead and buried) jobs back and walk into office on the votes of super not-racists.
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Nov 10, 2016 21:56
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Fojar38 posted:Ditto with Asian allies apparently. Yes, more. Whoever said they were going to be happy to see Trump's voters realize they were duped by the establishment again, yes, just yes. You threw away your dignity and totally not racist cred for nothing.
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Nov 10, 2016 22:15
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furiouskoala posted:As a Trump voter from a rural area, here is why Hillary lost. Oh hey, a racist voted for a racist. Color me unsurprised.
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Nov 11, 2016 05:44
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RaySmuckles posted:seriously. this. Trump is a vocal racist, sexual assault braggadocio, war crime advocator and protection racket runner. That 50 million people voted for him and he won is already very, very bad for this country. The only thing you have to do to get Americans to vote for you is tell lies and be racist.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:14
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RaySmuckles posted:well, that and have hillary clinton be your opponent. remember, they both lost voters. hillary lost considerably more. I'm not trying to place blame for the election of Trump. I'm telling you that when you say this: RaySmuckles posted:trump can be bad. really bad. You are flat loving wrong. Trump is already bad, really bad. His policy decisions from here on out is just icing on the racist cake. Even if he ushered in full communism or 1000 years of liberal darkness by cloning RBG and stacking the court with her immortal presence. 50 million people is this country said it is ok to call Mexicans criminals, and 'Blacks are lazy' and brag about sexual assault and threaten our allies with abandonment, and advocate war crimes. All of this is ok if you tell me I'm going to have a job, or your opponent is Hillary Clinton. That is horrific.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:28
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RaySmuckles posted:dude, you've never voted for someone who had platforms you disagreed with? i voted for obama in 2012. does that mean i tacitly support extra judicial killings, domestic spying, bailing out banks, refusing to prosecute white collar crime, keeping gitmo open, and staffing the government with Goldman Sachs employees? gently caress no. Actually, yes, you did support all of those things that Obama did. And I did when I voted for him too. You do not get to pick the parts of the candidate you vote for, you vote for the whole thing and you live with your choices. The people who saw Trump's racism, understood it as so and voted for him despite it are worse than the people who thought he was just showing off for the cameras, or didn't care, or whatever.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:39
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RaySmuckles posted:i disagree because i ALSO voted for a representative and senator that opposed those things. in a two party electoral system you ARE voting for the things you like and can still oppose the things you dislike Nope, you buy the whole hog, son, not just the tasty bacon. If you don't like the two party system, fix it. 100% of Trump supporters are racist because they voted for a racist, except for Trump because he is that racist.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:45
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Xequecal posted:Yes, yes it is. Have you ever been long term unemployed? Voting for a racist is still racist even if you voted for Trump despite his racism. It is still racist if he never builds the wall. In the same vein, stealing bread to feed your family is still theft. We can decide to forgive the thief, but he is still a thief. One of the most pernicious myths about racism in the US is that you aren't racist unless your heart says "Blacks are lazy" or that Mexico is a cabal of criminals sending their worst to the US, like our Sexual Predator-Elect. This is not true and we need to call racism what it is or we'll continue to be racists. Personal growth is hard, its embarrassing and it is totally worth it. This isn't even subtle racism, Donald Trump said the same thing about the people of Mexico (a shadowy group of evil outsiders bent on harming us) that it is no longer acceptable to say about Jewish people because 80 years ago a country led by a man who said the same things about Jewish people put millions of them in ovens. MickeyFinn fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 16:41
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negromancer posted:Hey, so here's a little known except from the white liberals favorite guy, MLK, in case you want to know how we lost and how this is all going to play out: Pro post.
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Nov 11, 2016 17:14
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RuanGacho posted:This isn't how humanity works. You are right, and it is because people don't tell racists to stop being racist often enough.
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Nov 11, 2016 21:14
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If I organized a minstrel show of homeless people with a promise to buy them dinner, no one would say that the homeless people weren't being racist when they participated. They might (probably?) forgive those homeless people of their racist actions because of the direness of their situation, but no one would say that what they were doing was good or not racist. But, a bunch of white voters, who literally didn't understand Hillary Clinton according to Matt Taibbi's article, voted for Trump because they liked what he was saying. Why is this ok? Because large parts of this country still refuses to own their racism and there are also plenty of people who are happy to carry water for them.
MickeyFinn fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 21:36
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One of the best parts about Republicans is that every once and a while they let the mask slip and tell people what they really think. For instance, here is Reince Priebus:Reince Priebus posted:It’s the other side now that doesn’t want to accept the fact that they lost the election. So look, I think everyone needs to just take a deep breath, take the weekend -- today’s Veterans Day -- count our blessings and let's come back on Monday. "We were just playing politics the whole time, why are you all so mad? You have to know everything Donald Trump said was just for show and now that the show is over we should all go home." Its like he doesn't understand that the outcome of the election mattered to people who weren't going to assume (or not) power.
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Nov 12, 2016 05:00
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Pollyanna posted:So, Trump's election has caused a wave of racist, bigoted, and white supremacist action and events to surge. We're seeing reports in the news of people being verbally and physically assaulted, mocked and threatened in classrooms, and neo-Nazis and the KKK marching everywhere. This seems explicitly enabled by Trump's election and the alt-right feeling emboldened by it. What do we do about this? Will the Trump administration decry these happenings, or will they just sit back and let it happen? I know a dude who doesn't think Trump is racist. He knows the things that Trump has said, so he isn't ignorant of facts, he just thinks it is stupid, but not racist. Motivated reasoning is a hell of a thing.
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Nov 13, 2016 03:23
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speng31b posted:No need to call supporters racist outright - just point out he myriad ways in which Trump is racist and has encouraged racists to do racist things. That's fairly undeniable. This is not the case. I know one person, who didn't even vote for Trump, who thinks nothing Trump said was racist. Merely stupid.
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Nov 13, 2016 04:11
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speng31b posted:That's fine - people who will actively deny it when presented with evidence aren't the target. I'm honestly not sure there are even a few percent of Trump supporters who can face that the voted in a racist, sexist piece of of poo poo human being. Maybe if they somehow get word of Trump's failure to deliver on his promises to them, they might move in. That seems pretty thin to me.
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Nov 13, 2016 04:23
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Mendrian posted:I think - and this may be the crux of the argument - that there are vastly differing definitions of 'racism' at play. Hieronymous Alloy posted:I don't think that analysis flies because Trump's racism is not sophisticated. It is blunt and crude. He refused apartments to black tenants. He said a judge could not rule fairly because he had Mexican ancestry. He called immigrants rapists. So on, so forth. My interactions with this one guy tells me that Mendrian is right. There is both the appeal to what ~*real racism*~ is and an appeal to Trump himself not being racist. Some of it is free excuse of old racism because people can change and some of it is just not seeing Trump's campaign comments as racist. When I pointed out that neo-nazis are excited for Trump and literally saying "this guy is talking about our issues" it turns into butt-hurt city about how I'm making the discussion charged. It is like having a map committee meeting with someone who doesn't think Canada is real. I can see how Trump's make-poo poo-up campaign did so well though. Opiates aren't the only source of fantastic dreams in the Midwest.
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Nov 13, 2016 08:14
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the popes toes posted:I would like to think the left is reflexively protective of Muslims because they realize that firstly, they comprise a large portion of our immigrants and immigrants always become the new working class, and secondly, the majority of those Muslims are fleeing a chaos of which the US was complicit. I know this is pages old by now, but... One of the weird things about talking to the American Right about your beliefs as a leftist is that they always think you have them for political expediency rather than because you actually believe these things. Sheltering innocent people from a horrible war? Nah, you don't believe that, you just want more voters. And it leads to weird, lovely descriptions like this: quote:However instead of using those explanations, the worst of the left reach for, "Because I'm not a loving racist and you shouldn't profile brown people!" Which is answered by the worst of the right, "Neither am I but you should profile people who want to kill you."
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Nov 18, 2016 21:03
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Zippy the Bummer posted:Trump is an rear end in a top hat. He is an obnoxious curr. But the above is why people like me would vote for him instead of Hillary Clinton. If you are going to give up on life, can you at least point the gun at yourself instead of others?
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Nov 24, 2016 18:42
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 05:32 |
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This is like the Scorpion and the Frog, except the frog never even questions the scorpion and just says "cool, lets go" and it is wonderful.
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Dec 1, 2016 04:23
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