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Moon Atari posted:This loss is entirely on the democrats. We should have realised how deeply in trouble they were when Obama lost everything but the executive and they did basically nothing to try to change their approach They actually did change something, they started equivocating economic populism with racism as opposed to ignoring it entirely 
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Nov 10, 2016 04:49
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ArbitraryC posted:You guys can blame racism till your face turns blue but at the end of the day she lost the rust belt to a republican with less votes than mitt romney. The millions of democrats that stayed home didn't make an active decision to gently caress over minorities and it's frankly obnoxious to say so. White supremacy didnt win with less votes than 2008 or 2012, democrats just lost. There was no surge in racists there was just apathy over Hillary. the admission of this requires a series of rather large leaps: 1)  THE IRON ABUELA wasn't the perfect candidate2) people care more about their economic station than identity politics 3) you can't shame people into doing what you want them to do
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Nov 12, 2016 02:14
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Nevvy Z posted:1. Obviously. 2. Turns out that people who aren't financially secure have bigger things to worry about than things like portrayals of women in video games or whatever insane derails the previous iterations this thread had. There was a very deliberate attempt by people to paint every sort of economic suggestion left of center as racist and we just had a massive referendum on that. I just hope that the lesson the Democratic party takes from this election is that it needs to actually be progressive or die. 3. Absolutely. I'm actually glad its looking like a massive kleptocracy for the fleeting feeling of schadenfreude of a few of my former friends basically detonating their entire social circle to voice their support for Trump, only to have him almost immediately betray them.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:23
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Nevvy Z posted:2. This thread isn't what racist white poeple were basing their votes on. i'm not worried about the racist white people, i'm worried about the people that sat home. we ran the most milquetoast, establishment candidate ever this time around. i'm a lot more curious as to what kept those people home as opposed to what brought the angry whites that voted for the equivalent of an endless scream alternating between "WETBACKS" and "SAND MONKEYS" turns out if you run around calling everyone who doesn't agree with you lockstep a racist and a bigot, they'll either stay at home or vote for actual racists and bigots
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Nov 12, 2016 02:32
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pretty much all of the political knowledge we had is gone now, but reminder that hillary literally ran on being the status quo and being the lesser of two evils. she took it all the way to the super bowl and lost against an fat orange quarterback with tiny hands
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Nov 12, 2016 02:36
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chumbler posted:So if you call them what they are they'll prove you right? either that or they'll sit at home and cause at least four years of darkness ymmv
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Nov 12, 2016 02:40
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"what could have possibly caused all of these liberal people to stay at home? i bet it was me not telling them they were racist enough" - the charred remains of the D&D hivemind
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Nov 12, 2016 02:42
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Sharkopath posted:I know it's not universal because this is also just a collection of random people on the internet but if you actually abandon identity politics at a time when minorities are the most uncertain of the future and distrustful of the entire political system why would they vote for your populist economics only candidate, distrust of will and intentions cost bernie the minority vote. Both should absolutely be part of the platform, but that's a two-way street. Trump won on economics, not on racist whites. There was a very deliberate attempt by some people to try and make the election just about identity politics by painting economic progressivism as somehow racist. Trump's message, while insane and impossible, was better than the Establishment Liberal, which ranged anywhere from an indifferent shrug of "well those jobs aren't coming back anyways" to seething contempt.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:59
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can someone give me a rundown on what exactly happened during the Night of Long Toxxes? i imagine this place was a bloodbath but i guess people were mass buying people's freedom?
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Nov 12, 2016 05:01
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Pollyanna posted:What the gently caress, that is horrifying. So "neoliberal" means...not liberal at all. That's literally FYGM. Neoliberals are liberals up to the point that they will support intentionally bland social justice causes so they can feel "liberal" without it affecting their bottom line or actually disrupt their lifestyles. The biggest incident I can think of of this was that twitter post from the Huffington Post board of directors congratulating themselves from going from an entirely white male board to an entirely white female board. Gail Wynand posted:Yeah the ACA was kinda poo poo. Too bad that we didn't go with the much better UHC plan originally proposed by...I don't know, some random lady, definitely not that neoliberal bitch Hillary... One of the major lessons you should take away from this is that dissent isn't some form of misogyny or bigotry. We absolutely lost this election because people like you decided to make any criticism against bountiful abuela a gendered or bigoted insult. You can angrily lash out at people all you want, but the party is either going to move to the left despite your best interests or (deservedly) die. edit: Pretty sure I didn't hear any sort of claim of UHC this time around. In fact, I'm pretty sure the people that were championing it were scoffed at for being too idealistic and unreasonable. Turns out they took that message to heart and stayed at home. Business Gorillas fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 09:14
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Fojar38 posted:Expect things like this in Congress as well. The GOP has the most power it's had in half a century and they're going to squander it on this poo poo while the Dems play kingmaker in the senate. i'm actually worried about this because if this is our timeline it proves that the accelerationists were actually right and we'll never hear the end of it
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Nov 12, 2016 09:27
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Craptacular! posted:It's not that protests don't count, it's that these aren't "paid protestors" and anyone suggesting that they are being paid as some sort of shadowy conspiracy is indicting (either directly or in cowardly dogwhistles) George Soros, because the part of the GOP base that believes in shadowy conspiracies are the same people that like to bitch about Jews (and also pretend to have no idea who Sheldon Adelson is and what party he funds, but that's another matter.) The media is absolutely going to pay these idiots lip service because the second the people that own the media sniff out that the left is angry and ready to revolt in this country, they're going to do everything to discredit it. See: Literally any other time our country has flirted with leftist ideology in history.
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Nov 12, 2016 09:30
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Killer-of-Lawyers posted:Yeah, she was really working on her platform as FLOTUS Oh my god that av 
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Nov 12, 2016 10:11
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FilthyImp posted:We couldn't handle the concept of four women as Ghostbusters. And yet we thought we could elect Hillary to the country's highest office. The Ghostbusters movie is a perfect analogy for this, actually. A lovely corporate rehash of the same tired poo poo we've been getting for years purposefully cultivated the idea that any criticism of it makes you a bigot. It wrapped itself in identity politics, isolated major demographics, and ended up to be a total flop because it turns out it was a bad movie from the start and everyone knew it.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:49
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botany posted:Which ones were those? Dorks that wrap themselves up in consumerism of "being a nerd" to have an identity and would actually want a Ghostbusters remake. Here's a pretty good watch on the whole Ghostbusters fiasco. https://youtu.be/UWROBiX1eSc
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Nov 12, 2016 18:57
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steinrokkan posted:Yeah, those are exactly the people you don't really want to win over because they are a cultural poison. Did you see a bunch of white rust belters call each other bigots and X out of the video? I mean we just tried the "let's wrap the same poo poo we've been selling for 30 years in identity politics and take minorities for granted" and we have President Cheeto.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:05
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MattD1zzl3 posted:As anti cultural appropriation as i am, i thought the best "replace white dudes" candidate has always been Christopher Lloyd and some funny young woman making "Back to the future IV" where a woman from the Past/future comes back to 2015/2016/2017. "Who'se the president? Trump? The Millionare?". Ghostbusters was a bad choice. I think I ate about two weeks of probations in total for low effort trolling and saying "hey maybe openly antagonizing white people isn't a good idea" over the past couple months. I'm right there with you.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:08
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botany posted:I wonder if that demographic has a distinct racial makeup... If your takeaway to a bunch of rust belters saying "MAYBE THE MOVIE WAS JUST BAD ON ITS OWN MERIT??" is "ugh, white people  ", maybe the Ghostbusters movie is more prescient than I previously thought
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Nov 12, 2016 19:11
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SourKraut posted:But how do you convince, for example, Rust Belt workers that you can get them jobs when the jobs they were working in are never coming back? They need to be educated/trained in other areas so that they can transition to new careers, but without state or Federal programs to support them, I don't see it happening. And Republicans will shout about higher taxes and debt to do so, so a huge chunk of the voter base will still reject it. You can try actually having an actual solution instead of shouting "RACIST" at them, for one.
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Nov 13, 2016 03:12
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Lightning Knight posted:I just realized what bothers me about framing it as "establishment vs. anti-establishment" instead of "progressive vs. conservative." The establishment/anti-establishment framing makes it about experience and membership in leadership positions, and essentially implies being a nobody idiot who has no connection to the traditional leadership (i.e. Donald Trump) is more valuable than being somebody who can actually do the job and knows everybody involved (i.e. Hillary Clinton). Whereas, the problem shouldn't be that somebody has been there for a long time and knows what they're doing, the problem should be on where they stand politically. Bernie's been in office for longer than I've been alive, he is an establishment politician. He just also is still a progressive in spite of that. I agree that experience is important. I'm not too interested in experience when said experience is in paying lip service to people (both minorities and the working class) only to abandon them immediately and push neoliberalism when they get into office. It's becoming establishment/anti-establishment because people understand the current system is loving them.
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Nov 13, 2016 15:43
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The only thing people are going to do is read point 13 and write you off for being a bigot. The fact of the matter is that Clintonistas are only liberal in the sense that they support token gestures that don't actually impact their pocketbooks or cushy white lifestyles. They do the equivalent of Facebook Liking progressive causes and summarily pat themselves on the back for what a good job they did yelling at the racist/retweeting the meme about women in video games/listicle about Ghostbusters and go home.
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Nov 13, 2016 15:55
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Is the old UsPol thread still up? It's a pretty good time capsule, I imagine. It was nothing but upper middle class tech workers on an endless inquisition to figure out who was the most "woke" to issues that don't matter to anyone that didn't live in their condo complex. That's what the Democratic party became and it absolutely needs to be torn down.
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Nov 13, 2016 15:59
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skylined! posted:Yea trump is going to totally remove automation from factory work along with forcing all of the companies that have been shipped jobs overseas the last 60 years to magically make them return. Maybe all the automatons that are not in the scrap heap in favor of human hands can build the loving factories that these people will be working in. Take a minute and realize that you're just trying to shout at a man for wanting to word hard to provide for his community and you're giving him absolutely zero solutions to his problem. I mean no poo poo he's going to vote for the obvious con man because it's different than the other side, who's effectively screaming "YOUR JOB WILL DISAPPEAR AND YOURE FUNDAMENTALLY A BAD PERSON"
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Nov 13, 2016 16:01
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Quorum posted:Man, this generalization sure seems like an accurate thing and not part of a weird personal vendetta. My bad I have to go do some minority outreach real quick *does the dab with Beyonce and retweets something about intersectionality to 13 Twitter followers*
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Nov 13, 2016 16:04
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How did we possibly lose the Rust Belt??? I mean we got the endorsements of everyone from HuffPo's "Top Eleven Twitter Follows of 2016... You Won't Believe Number Seven!".
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Nov 13, 2016 16:16
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Lightning Knight posted:You're a massive prick about everything and your holier than thou "I'm the real leftist and you're all dirty centrist Clinton supporters" can gently caress right off. It's true, the democrats didn't destroy unions, they knowingly abandoned them once it became politically inconvenient to support them. You sure owned that guy by proving his point?
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Nov 13, 2016 16:26
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Condiv posted:Centrists can gently caress right off. We just got done coddling their worthless political ideology all general and centrists not only lost humiliatingly, they refuse to learn their lesson.
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Nov 13, 2016 16:38
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Lightning Knight posted:He also ran on hatred of immigrants and national stop and frisk and was endorsed by the KKK. Please, educate me on why he won. Lol if you think Hillary was actually going to implement progressive platforms.
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Nov 13, 2016 23:51
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Check this out *lowers sunglasses* You're doing the bougeroisie's work for them by trying to find working class scapegoats and dividing on racial lines *does a sick kickflip while skateboarding away*
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Nov 14, 2016 15:28
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Lightning Knight posted:Regardless of what you mean, this rhetoric screams "minority rights aren't as important to us anymore" to minorities. Economic justice and social justice are linked, actually, unless you're some spineless upper middle class white person who counts their social progress in the number of PoC or LGBT people you can have sex with in the new Mass Effect game
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Nov 14, 2016 15:30
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Rodenthar Drothman posted:Are a bunch of thick headed jerks still piling on lightning knight? Why won't all these mean poopy heads just admit that economic progressivism is racist and let us continue the strategy of white exclusion that gave up President Trump? 
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Nov 14, 2016 16:34
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Nebalebadingdong posted:Why is it impossible? If The Democratic Party was actually for working people, why aren't they in the streets with Fight For $15? I'm very curious as to what people who think Democrats are in it for the working man would think Hillary's platform would look like if Bernie didn't run and scare the poo poo out her in the Rust belt. IIRC literally every minimum wage hike passed but Trump still won. Kind of gives some insight as to how the working man feels about the self described working man's party
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Nov 14, 2016 20:45
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Aesop Poprock posted:Not true. The fundraising was unprecedented, the ground game was excellent and the ad campaign was insanely well played outside of that dumbass abuela ad. It didn't end up mattering but it was excellently run based on everything we knew about campaigning The ad campaign was great but literally all of the ads I saw were "IM NOT TRUMP" and "I LIKE KIDS". Its absolutely on the candidate to sell themselves to the public. We had a referendum on incrementalism and voting for the lesser of two evils and they both lost miserably.
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Nov 14, 2016 20:47
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mango sentinel posted:Clinton was a flawed but incredibly qualified candidate who ran a great traditional campaign with fatal blind spots against an idiot with billions in free airtime to make empty promises that people were desperate to hear. How do you reconcile "Clinton was the most qualified and experienced candidate we ever had" and "Clinton went to the super bowl and lost to an orange pee-wee bumblefuck"? I mean drat dude even in your attempt in being snarky you imply that if we had Bernie we wouldve done demonstrably better than we did with THE IRON ABUELA
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Nov 14, 2016 20:51
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1337JiveTurkey posted:When people talk about the working man, they're talking about white men. Just like when people talk about law-abiding citizens, they're talking about white people. It could be that every suggestion of working people is a dogwhistle or it could be that the term "working man" could mean "people that have to work for a living", ymmv.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:07
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Can I call "woke" liberals trying to invoke my people's industrialized slaughter to get cheap points on the internet cultural appropriation?
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Nov 14, 2016 21:22
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Flip Yr Wig posted:Believe it or not, it's helpful to look at the history of fascism when your nation is facing it. This is a very interesting take after the DNC ignored a populist upswelling and instead of capitalizing on it, began to demonize the disenfranchised and send them running into the arms of a right wing ideologue who was more than happy to blame their economic problems on otherized groups.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:30
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Crowsbeak posted:Please do. They need to stop using shields for being supporters of an ideology that disenhearted so many people from voting. I was mostly asking in case there was some sort of ridiculous woke-twitter caveat, sort of like how someone saying "gently caress white people" isn't racist but is in fact just prejudiced which is better because
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Nov 14, 2016 21:35
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Pollyanna posted:Lol if you ever thought the Dems were competent. I would argue they were incredibly competent. They were able to fleece the public and stuff the pockets of the people who they actually represented for almost 30 years.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:37
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1337JiveTurkey posted:There is no logical reason why the party of inclusion can't be the party of "the working man" any more than it can't be the party of isolationism and "the working man". The party of inclusion was only for it insofar as it didn't inconvenience their comfy white lifestyles. Reminder that the entirety of the civil rights legislation explicitly went after Jim Crow and enshrined the class-based segregation north of the Mason-Dixon.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:42
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