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Nonsense posted:As we do better economically, the stats fall apart. We have a significant FYGM contingent. Well, the impending economic collapse has a silver lining, then. 
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Nov 9, 2016 09:02
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Sephyr posted:They'll just make up for the crazy promises they can't deliver by making GBS threads way harder on the other side. I'm not so sure of that. The economy's going to suffer under Trump, to one degree or another. When he can't bring those jobs back, he's going to have a much harder time with GOTV in 2020. XyrlocShammypants posted:Practically no one works in coal anyway, so I don't get why these people have any power at all. It helps, unfortunately, that places like Kentucky and West Virginia have as many Senators as California and New York, and subtantially more electoral votes per capita. e: I did some quick math and WV has double the per capita electoral votes as CA. e2: yaaay my math was bad, edited. Majorian fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 02:34
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Populist candidates generally fail in the long term when they don't live up to their promises and the populace moves on to the next charismatic individual. Unlike Obama, Trump never had any intention of even attempting to follow through on his. The Dems should be poised to offer their own in 2020. Absolutely. I know a lot of folks don't think Warren has the charisma chops to do it, but I think she's been upping her game substantially over the past few years. I'm looking forward to seeing what she becomes by then.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:40
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Business Gorillas posted:"what could have possibly caused all of these liberal people to stay at home? i bet it was me not telling them they were racist enough" - the charred remains of the D&D hivemind Yes, I'm sure that what people said that hurt your fee-fees on an online message board swayed hundreds of thousands of votes in key states. Tir McDohl posted:Exactly, and even though she might not cut it in 2020, this is the time for rising stars in the Democratic Party to start, well, rising. The bench was depleted, and we are now living the nightmare. We need to keep an eye on the democrats who do the best job resisting and sticking to their values. I keep saying it - Sanders is going to be a kingmaker this cycle. I'm looking forward to seeing who runs in 2020.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:43
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ErIog posted:Yeah, we all heard you the first time.  Sue me, I want to be optimistic in the face of this lovely, lovely week.Evil Fluffy posted:This kind of person is getting purged from the party if/when Ellison and others take over, right? I'm kind of flummoxed that she didn't get the boot after she bungled Gore's 2000 campaign.
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Nov 12, 2016 02:48
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Sharkopath posted:I know it's not universal because this is also just a collection of random people on the internet but if you actually abandon identity politics at a time when minorities are the most uncertain of the future and distrustful of the entire political system why would they vote for your populist economics only candidate, distrust of will and intentions cost bernie the minority vote.  Plus, as I mentioned in the election thread, broad social welfare programs aimed at all low-income people haven't always done the best job of addressing the unique obstacles that different minority groups face.cheese posted:What the sweet gently caress are you talking about? West Virginia has 1.85m people and 5 electoral votes, or one for every 370k votes. California has 38.8m people and 55 electoral votes, or one for every 705k people. They have almost double CA's per capita electoral votes (not 20 times), but then again, Texas has basically the same ratio with one electoral vote for every 709k people (and it is a red state). Oops, you're right, my math was bad. Still, my point is, that differential is by design. Big states get dinged, small states get major advantages in electing presidents.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:28
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speng31b posted:I'm going to miss Harry Reid. Me too, although I have to say, Schumer might be pretty decent in his role as minority leader. Yes, he's too pro-Wall Street and too pro-Israel, but Trump's going to be those things too no matter what, and there's not much a minority leader can do to block Trump's agenda on those fronts. But he's also a drat good attack dog, and he knows the levers of power in the Senate very well. So I'm hoping he'll carry on Reid's good work. Plus, he's given Keith Ellison his endorsement for DNC chair, so that suggests to me that he can see which way the wind is blowing, and it's not in the third way Dems' favor. Majorian fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 03:58
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FuturePastNow posted:And not to be a bitter Bernie supporter, either, but I'll trust the photos of him marching with Civil Rights protesters over the photos of Hillary interning for the Nixon admin as evidence of who would actually be stronger on race issues He's always had the chops at dealing with minority voters, but not the name recognition. And if this election has proven anything, it's that name recognition goes a loooong way to getting elected.
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Nov 12, 2016 04:00
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icantfindaname posted:When you're running against a dangerous quasi-authoritarian you really cannot responsibly allow any missteps at all, and the blase attitude towards Hillary's faults was the opposite of that This is true, and I have to say, I kind of feel like the people who shouted down any criticisms of Clinton at all, even from those who were planning on voting for her, need to own up to being part of the problem. I'm not going to name names, but I've noticed that a lot of them haven't posted since last Tuesday...
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Nov 14, 2016 20:24
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BarbarianElephant posted:There is a concept called "toxx" on this board which means that people who post in a certain thread agree to be banned if their favoured candidate loses. I suspect this had some impact. The ones I'm talking about didn't toxx, I think.
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Nov 14, 2016 20:33
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thechosenone posted:So then why didn't she beat Trump? I probably sound like I'm being a smart aleck, but I honestly think More people knew about her than Trump. As it is, Did anyone know about Barack Obama outside of his constituency before he became the Democratic presidential nominee in 2008? If Bernie got as far as he did without name recognition, just how well would he have done with another year to get his name out, alongside the well known Democratic party name? I don't think anyone's claiming that name recognition is a silver bullet, though. It's a major factor, and made a big difference in the primary, but it can be partially offset by things like really charismatic candidates, etc.
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Nov 14, 2016 20:35
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mcmagic posted:No it was not. The messaging and electoral strategy was a complete mess. They spend 8 months trying to target "moderate" republicans and white women who all voted for Trump anyway while giving Paul Ryan a complete pass that was disastrous down ticket. They failed in every way it is possible to fail. No one on that campaign's leadership team should ever work in democratic politics again. They failed in some key regards, but it's pretty dumb to say that they failed in every regard, when that's clearly not true. If the campaign machinery had existed around a better candidate, it would have been a blowout.
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Nov 14, 2016 20:37
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mcmagic posted:Managing the candidate is part of running a campaign, another thing they utterly and completely failed at. They managed her pretty well overall, the last couple weeks of not visiting vulnerable states notwithstanding. The biggest problem was that Hillary Clinton was the candidate.
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Nov 14, 2016 20:45
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Beelzebooty posted:Where did this happen that wasn't on the something awful dot com forums? That's pretty much all I'm talking about with this - I didn't run into too many overbearing Clinton supporters IRL, luckily.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:21
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Paul MaudDib posted:That's also with RBG on the court, and she's an 83 year old survivor of multiple cancers. How long do you think she'll be holding on? 87? 91? Ehhhh, it's possible, and it's more likely than not. But it's also possible that RBG stays alive, Trump gets voted out in 2020, and Clarence Thomas dies under a Democratic administration. I wouldn't put money on it, but it's not something we should necessarily rule out right now.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:26
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Wraith of J.O.I. posted:Christ, I hadn't even thought of this til now--is there a legitimate chance the UN could be gone in 4 years? Probably not. Even neocons see the U.N. as a valuable forum for states to air their grievances, if nothing else, and the League of Nations managed to cling on for a few years without the U.S. Unless we get global nuclear war, in which case, welp...
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Nov 14, 2016 21:27
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Reminder: Yyyyyup. In CSPAM a few months ago, there was a Trump supporter named No Mans Land, who vehemently insisted that Trump was a non-interventionist, and that's the reason why Dems should vote for him. God I wish I could laugh in his face right now.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:32
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Business Gorillas posted:This is a very interesting take after the DNC ignored a populist upswelling and instead of capitalizing on it, began to demonize the disenfranchised and send them running into the arms of a right wing ideologue who was more than happy to blame their economic problems on otherized groups. That's not actually what happened, though. Trump didn't really turn out a very impressive tally of voters.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:40
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Radbot posted:D&D response to Trump supporter on 11/14/2016: Laugh in his face The only ones corncobbing are those who thought Trump was going to be a non-interventionist, and was going to bring back their jobs. 
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Nov 14, 2016 21:42
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Here are the Republicans that opposed his nomination: Yeah, but it helps that Bolton is also personally hated by a lot of folks in Washington. He's a really unlikable POS.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:43
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Business Gorillas posted:The party of inclusion was only for it insofar as it didn't inconvenience their comfy white lifestyles. Oh bullshit. The Dems managed to sell this balance between inclusiveness and economic populism to pretty significant effect in 2008, and they don't need someone who is oratorically touched by God like Obama to sell it again. Lightning Knight posted:Or Mexican people. It's not a nice feeling to be told that your father and grandmother never belonged in this country, and how dare they undercut the wages of deserving American workers, seeking a better life. Especially since a lot of their families have been here a lot longer than the whiteys.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:44
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Business Gorillas posted:"Anti-semitism is over because HOLOCAUST" has been a thing for over 70 years Not a great way to get AIPAC buxx though. Radbot posted:Uh, the amount of voters he turned out for "burn it all down" in the face of "business as usual" is pretty loving impressive, thank you very much. It's the lowest total of any major party candidate since 2004 actually, op.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:48
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Radbot posted:Too bad that doesn't mean poo poo, huh? I mean, it kind of disproves the argument that Trump somehow managed to attract a large number of Democratic voters. Radbot posted:If you thought that, you're just as dumb and misinformed as you were on November 7th. They know poo poo's not getting better, they just want to take you down with them. If that's what they're gunning for, they're actually the dumb and misinformed ones. Smug, effete left-wingers like me aren't the ones who are going to be hurt under a Trump administration, hate to tell you. Poor rural whites are going to suffer pretty badly, though. So, gg poor rural white Trump voters!  quote:"Sure, the climate will be destroyed along with labor and gays, but TRUMP voters are the real losers!" - Sad, pathetic idiot Oh, I'm sad about the climate, labor, gays, people of color, etc, definitely. But if middle/upper-class white liberals are who the Trump supporters were aiming at, they managed to hit pretty much every group that WASN'T middle/upper-class white liberals. But hey, keep telling yourself that Trump supporters didn't just blow themselves up. Majorian fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 21:55
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Business Gorillas posted:Good thing Clinton didn't lose to the least popular candidate ever. Boy, the amount of egg on her face if she did. You'll note that I've acknowledged she was a terrible candidate. Also, abolish the electoral college.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:57
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menino posted:Fo sho. Bernie showed you can get $200mil + from small donors. Not sure what normal pull is for Dems in off cycles but if Our Revolution can keep that going, would be good to see. I think Our Revolution probably needs an overhaul and relaunch before it gets going, unfortunately. It was looking pretty sad in the months before the GE.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:02
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Radbot posted:Good, glad to hear that smug, effete liberals (you're not a "left winger")  quote:don't like gay marriage, abortion rights, or climate change regulation and that you won't be hurt by changes to any of that. Oh, they will be, but you're deliberately missing my point: the white working class are going to suffer more from a Trump presidency than "effete white liberals" or whatever you want to call them. So voting for Trump as a means of saying "gently caress you" to them was a pretty loving stupid thing to do.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:06
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mcmagic posted:LOL if Rand Paul votes for Guliani or Bolton for Sec State. I mean, that is something that Democrats need to be keeping spreadsheets of, because holy poo poo. Any GOP acquiescence with anything Trump does needs to be made so toxic that they never get elected to anything again.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:10
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HorseRenoir posted:People actually liked Reagan. People don't like Trump and without a 9/11 event that he can make hay out of he's going to be like second term Bush. Indeed, it's kind of ironic...if Trump actually does make the unbelievable mistake of appointing Giuliani AG, you'll have constant invocations of 9/11 working against a GOP president for a change.
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Nov 15, 2016 00:00
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Quorum posted:My pet peeve about this election is people picking up the habit of using "the DNC" to refer to the Democratic Party as a whole when the Democratic National Committee has very little influence on anything beyond fundraising and giving out that cash to candidates. I mean, it's fair to make the distinction, but folks have been conflating the two entities for a lot longer than this election, tbf.
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Nov 15, 2016 00:23
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MizPiz posted:Still proves how poo poo at their job the DNC has been, since they can only seem to succeed when the GOP fucks up enough. Obviously, it doesn't hurt that young people vote less during midterm elections, while old people vote in ALL elections.
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Nov 15, 2016 00:25
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Evil Fluffy posted:"Well if the country's gone to poo poo by 2018 the Dems can win big" is some of the dumbest poo poo I've seen in awhile. It absolutely isn't dumb. It's a real possibility that the Dems should treat as an opportunity, if and when it arises. Indeed, the true dumbest poo poo we've ever seen, goonsire, would be for the Dems to, you know. Not make it seem like the country's gone to poo poo and voters need to elect Democrats once 2018 rolls around. quote:We just had an election with hundreds of thousands of people being unable to vote because of very specific, targeted voter suppression in GOP-held states. That poo poo is going to continue and get worse in most if not all states with GOP-held legislatures. Given that SCOTUS gutted the voting rights act, and Trump is going to be able to pick at least one justice over the next four years, there's very little we can do about this. You realize that, right?
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Nov 15, 2016 00:57
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Spaced God posted:https://twitter.com/PatrickSvitek/status/798256277281443841 I imagine the LGBT non-non-discrimination bill will get struck down by lower federal courts, and then SCOTUS will refuse to hear it anytime soon. Are there any judicial experts here who can confirm/deny? Because if I'm correct, this was a tactical mistake on the Texas GOP's part.
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Nov 15, 2016 01:11
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z0glin Warchief posted:We can protest, litigate (as much as possible), and generally keep awareness of what they're doing as high as possible, as well as go the extra mile to make sure as many people as possible can get the ID and such they need to avoid getting hit by the laws. Not a perfect solution by any stretch, but it's still important to not just concede the issue. Oh sure, I agree 100%; I was talking more about the narrow context in which Evil Fluffy was speaking. I still don't understand his objection to the Dems planning to be opportunistic about America's economic woes in 2018 and 2020 - it's not like they can't do that AND raise hell about voting rights infringements at the same time.
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Nov 15, 2016 01:14
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:He's deported immigrants at a rate higher than any other president combined. Not combined. George W. Bush deported 2 million, Obama has deported 2.5 million. It's still obscenely high, but saying that he's deported more than any other president combined is just flat-out wrong.
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Nov 15, 2016 19:51
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greatn posted:I think the only real"rigged" parts of the primary were Tbf, even if he and others here believe that all social ills like racism and misogyny arise out of unfettered neoliberalism and income inequality (and I'm not saying that they don't), cleaving too closely to that line didn't really do much to inspire non-white Dems to vote for him. Jeff Weaver was a bad campaign manager, but a lot of Sanders' problems started at the top, with Sanders himself.
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Nov 15, 2016 20:47
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:The second Sanders put his name in the race every single rich, wallstreet boot licking senator and beltway insider suddenly felt their butthole pucker up and immediately felt the need to publicly state their support for the only candidate that could beat Donald Trump, which happened to be Hillary. That's not how it went down. Come on, dude. 
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Nov 15, 2016 20:51
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Covok posted:I'll put it this way, as a catholic, I would be elated to hear that the religious right is dead and gone so we stop getting shamed for their utter cruelty and unchristian nature. As kind of a quasi-Episcopalian, Business Gorillas posted:*runs a candidate that campaigned on being secretive and calling frog memes hate crimes* She didn't run on either of those things. Knock off the dumb hyperbole.
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Nov 15, 2016 20:57
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Basically, shut the gently caress up about racism and sexism, not because you're wrong, but because it doesn't accomplish anything and is actively detrimental to you winning those things in the long run. Losing this election was supposed to be teaching you that, but I guess it hasn't. The Dems actually need to focus on both, in no small part because the U.S. is going to be majority non-white in not too many years, and non-white people often have different challenges than the white working class. The Dems need to focus way more on economic justice than they have in decades, I agree, but overcorrecting to the exclusion of social justice issues is just as big of a mistake as ignoring economic justice altogether.
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Nov 15, 2016 21:00
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VH4Ever posted:You're right but I think what they meant was Hillary people screaming racist/msiogynist at anyone who wasn't 100% onboard with the Hillary platform and it's that poo poo that turns middle America off. I agree, in principle, but I have to question how widespread of an effect this had, ie: outside of the Something Awful forums or whatever.
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Nov 15, 2016 21:08
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Lightning Knight posted:I'm moderately curious about the possibility of attempting to use positive Christianity to attempt to reach out to working class white people. I feel like it wouldn't work out though. Eh, I wouldn't be so sure of it. Evangelical leaders of all racial backgrounds played pivotal roles in the Civil Rights era, and a big part of that meta-movement was economic justice; that part just tends to get glossed over in today's historical retellings. There's a lot of room for the Christian Left to take a seat at the table and start raking the ultra-mega-rich over the coals for exploiting God's people.
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Nov 15, 2016 21:11
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