SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

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sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Mutant Standard posted:

from a new york times article i googled:

alright, does anybody remember this or am I going to have to research this myself?

There was nothing official but everyone said Pelosi and Reid hated his guts and didn't trust his ideas to actually deliver. I'm sure he's already flooded their inboxes with 'boy wish we had a 50 state strategy huh' emails.

He also hilariously owned Rham multiple times.

Also as a bad Hillary poster I'm incredibly embarrassed how wrong and owned I am

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 05:06

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 02:12

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Mutant Standard posted:

hilariously owning rham is a plus in my book.

that pharma lobbying thing still taints him though and i'm going to stick with who bernie and warren endorsed.

I don't know who he lobbied for exactly so I can't say how great a choice that was, but yea going from grassroots focus and working on people's day to day issues before tackling lofty goals right to 'pharma lobbyist' isn't a great look to get for yourself.

Bro Dad posted:

didn't rahm throw a shitfit and quit the administration because they weren't triangulating enough

More or less, he threw a lot of shitfits. Fittingly one of the things Dean wrecked him on was calling out what a huge baby he was and saying that's why no one works with him instead of it being some big plot or whatever.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 05:15

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Mutant Standard posted:

Oh, Dean was a lobbyist for Dentons.

They're the ones now picking the Trump's cabinet.

oh

Ugh come on Dean.

Like, I still like him and want him to get the job and just start throwing office supplies at people while screaming 'what did we learn', but man gently caress Dentons.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 05:29

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Mutant Standard posted:

can we have ellison on policy and dean on strategy, can that work

that'd be a dream setup, yea. I'm not sure if there's an official title for Dean to have that'd let him be that but he could easily just be a 'consultant' or whatever to get him at the table to just beat people over the head with demographic maps.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 05:33

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

iospace posted:

It's what I want.

Right now, the Democrats have to do this:

1. reorganize and fast. 2018 is going to be coming up quick.
2. get a solid policy down.
3. Figure out how to go about getting people elected.

Once's that done, for 2018:
4. Manage to keep the GOP Statehouses below the convention threshold.
5. Manage to keep under 60 GOP Senators.
6. Poach some house seats if possible.

Currently, the house can be written off as is, and it'll take a wave to flip it. Save that for 2020, though if 2018 is favorable enough, try there. Overplaying our hand in 2018 could cost us redistricting in 2020, which is why we need to stop the bleeding in 2018.

1st priority is to keep any amendments or a constitutional convention from happening. 2018 is a very favorable senate map for GOP pickups, so damage has to be limited there and how.

You're not wrong in any way but gently caress you for reminding me that the concept of a Trump/Pence lead constitutional convention isn't literally impossible and now I'll never sleep.

But yea hopefully the Dems just accept that congress is gonna be split for a good bit, but we can at least gently caress the senate up bad enough to hamstring the madness.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 05:45

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

RedneckwithGuns posted:

How dire is the map for 2018 in terms of the potential for the 3/5th's statehouses needed for constitutional convention stuff? Is that pretty much the last chance we have of keeping them from that kind of power?

Hell has there ever been a point in the history of the country where one party had enough power to pass constitutional amendments?

not quite 'dire' yet but if somehow we don't learn anything from last week then yes we're absolutely going to be in a situation where only a handful of morons aping trump's 'the foreigners took your jobs I'll make them give them back somehow' message can put us in that position.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 05:57

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

logikv9 posted:

I don't believe the Constitutional Convention scare-hype (although if it's useful in making people turn out for local elections, well...)

republicans are god awful but there are some of them that will realize the unilaterally passing some constitutional amendment goes beyond party loyalty and is totally and 100%

I don't think there's much risk of it actually HAPPENING but the fact that they would have that level of control over politics is enough to make me a bit queasy at all.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 05:58

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

logikv9 posted:

and what loving amendment could they pass? balanced budget? no abortion? "REPUBLICANS WIN FOREVER" amendment?

uh depending on who wins the inevitable power struggle in the right that's looming, yea poo poo like 'no abortion' and 'gently caress queers' and all are absolutely possible agenda items. On the other end I'm 100% positive the economic wing would try to force through some kinda 'right to work' bullshit as national policy to just finish unions off.

Shockingly, having the weight to possibly gently caress with our constitution means a lot of bad things can happen.

Moreover, even if you (probably rightly) don't think anything that level would happen, just the fact that there's that much of a power imbalance between the right and the left should be enough reason to not want to hit that benchmark.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 06:03

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Sojenus posted:

the only clinton i'll accept seeing again is socks

I know things are tough but please do not dig up cat bones

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 06:11

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

loquacius posted:

Being a salesperson must be really easy

"It's your job to buy my product, not mine to convince you. Such a self-centered argument: my prices are exorbitant and my product is worst-in-class"

or, like, a lawyer

"It's your job to find in my favor, not mine to convince you. Friggin JURY BROS!!!!!"

Interesting question: what does Peter Daou think his job, y'know, is

Like Venom said guys like him are so wrapped up in their DC bubble where of COURSE all their friends and all just know voting is good and important that he probably views his job as just stating the correct opinion to the public. In his world that's all you need to do, he says 'ahem, actually, Trump is BAD' and then assumes every follower he has will go 'poo poo, he's right, better go vote'.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 16:00

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Mordiceius posted:

Would Russ Feingold be a better choice for DNC chair than Keith Ellison?

Maybe, but it's gonna be hard to shake the stink of 'you literally just lost an election though, dude'.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 21:28

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Venom Snake posted:

I wonder what Cromwell would think of Trump.

for all his deep and real evil, at least Cromwell was a pretty true believer.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 21:37

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Well What Now posted:

While we're all pondering what to do next, here's a very good summary of what not to do: Democrats Hoping �Trump Effect� Would Drive Latino Turnout Neglected Engagement Work

WHY?

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 21:47

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Mister Fister posted:

Trollbama gonna leave a fake Kenyan birth certificate in the drawer before he leaves.

Joe runs back at the last minute to put it in a file marked "DON'T GIVE TO TRUMP" in big red letters

loquacius posted:

also I missed the part of Obama's press conference where he dumped on the campaign, can someone sum up what he said exactly?

He was very explicit about the core issue facing the DNC is the divide between the leaders and the people and the need for grassroots work if we're ever gonna win again

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 22:07

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Venom Snake posted:

We have to SELL Hill. She's deeply unpopular.

*spends a fucktillion dollars on ads and marketing*

result: Hillary favorability +1. Trump favorability -48. Trump wins the Presidency

I admit to being 100% cobbed, I thought this would be the delivering factor. I really and truly thought that Trump having nearly half the country see him as a scumbag would be the safeguard against him winning.

I have been stumped.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 22:08

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Zythrst posted:

Seriously though ask about DAPL instead of this navel gazing poo poo.

this is gonna be the focus for at least another week. Sorry. The combo of journalist/pollsters getting absolutely owned and the DNC reshuffling means this will dominate the minds of the people who would ask these questions and answer them.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 22:10

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Oh Snapple! posted:

I legitimately wonder if Obama knew they were ignoring the rust belt as much as they were or if he just assumed they were largely doing what his own campaigns did, since obviously he's the loving president may or may not have had time to look at what they were actually doing.

If I had to guess I'd say it's the latter, yea. I think he just figured 'well they're gonna do what I did to win that area since by all accounts it'll still work, especially with this idiot going around showing 'empathy' by gently patting a black lady's arm from a foot away'. I don't blame him, it's what anyone who isn't an idiot would do, and yea, as president I kinda would hope he has more things to do than micromanage the DNC.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 22:15

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Zikan posted:

dean has experience with the 50 state strategy of taking back state houses and the landslides of 2006 and 2008. also ran a completely fair democratic primary despite enormous pressure from the clinton's

downside is he became a lobbyist after the dnc for phara and was a big hillary booster during the primary

I mean I guess it's me still being a ~pragmatist~ but I just can't imagine a mindset of 'yea he's basically perfect for the job and has done literally what we need before already...but he did a thing I don't like...' being any less dangerous than the one of 'uh clearly we can learn nothing from this and we just need to repackage Clinton as a cute young black guy to win????'

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 22:35

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:

Depends on what you mean by better. What I think the high level pros are for each:

Ellison: probably best represents ideologically where (many here) would like the party to go. Young and energized. Would probably easily pick up the Bernie banner.

Dean: experienced and had success at the position. Can commit to it full time. Probably understands the structural work that needs to be done better.

Maybe we can draft both of them, try to give each 12 carries a game, and see which one proves out.

poo poo wait that's my plan if I owned the Chicago Bears.

my dream solution is pretty much a split 'co-chairs' situation where they're both at the head. You can even wrap it up in a big lovey-dovey 'hey at the end of the day we're all here to fight for America, not fight each other, right?' thing to avoid the optics of a civil war.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 22:37

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

bump_fn posted:

https://twitter.com/patrickklepek/status/798188874472259584

scoops no

# ¿ Nov 14, 2016 22:44

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Well What Now posted:

step one to bonding with rural whites: tell them we hate Lena Dunham too

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 00:44

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

jackofarcades posted:

Why do people think Starbucks is only a coastal elite thing? I live in Louisiana and we got like 10 in my city. My racist rear end aunties go to starbucks all the time.

...

Look, we gotta acknowledge that racism and sexism played a huge part in this election. Now, to a lot of people this election wasn't about that ... there's a lot of white people who just kinda compartmentalized that part of the Trump campaign. They just kinda shrugged it off or thought he was pandering, but they still thought, in the end, it was ok to vote for a guy who went out and said a bunch of racist poo poo and empowered Nazis. Not to mention the sexual assault poo poo. It's no wonder a lot of Democrats - especially PoC and Women Democrats - saw this election through that frame and are despairing about it.

Now when people com along and say "Dems gotta talk to White Working Class Voters" you can see the pushback. They're afraid of being abandoned, of anti-racism being thrown to the wayside to chase a bunch of racists.

The people who see this election this way aren't just a bunch of dumbass bubble coastal elites. They're just normal people who saw this election as a referendum on racism/sexism that they lost. They need to be reassured that they're still the core of the Democratic Party, that we'll still fight for their rights, and a lot of Trump's voters aren't lost causes or actively racist, just... ignorant.

This pretty much echos how I feel about this. We absolutely need to reach the working class of all races better, this election is objective and clear point that the technocrat wing of the party has no goddamn clue what's going on in most of America.

That said, I also am not a fan of this trend of pretending we can't say 'and also a poo poo ton of Trump's support came from bigotry'.

Like, 2/3rds of his voters agreed with the muslim ban, about the same agreed with deportation forces and abortion bans and I think a bit less but still too many agreed gays are gross and trans people aren't a real thing and are just pervs trying to sneak in the bathrooms. His form of economic talk was entirely rooted in white nationalism, focusing not on actual issues but just saying 'THE ASIANS AND MEXICANS TOOK OUR JOBS AGH'.

These facts don't have to be oppositions, we can say that we have failed the working class without pretending this is some kinda weird noble savage thing where the poor backwards babies just don't know what a goddamn starbucks is and they got tricked by the mean orange man. Working class people are hurting, they need a hand extended to them, but also a lot of them place the blame on minorities and poo poo, and those people need to be told 'maybe shut the gently caress up'.

The reason we see this pushback from some is because minority voters are VERY used to being told to get in the back seat while we appeal to white people. There are a lot of people hearing 'hey we elected a white nationalist, hate crimes are already going on, things are really kinda grim for any chance of social progress and probably gonna get some regression too' and then instantly following it with 'and what about the white people, right?' These voices hear those two things and their mind goes right to 'poo poo we're about to be told to shut up and work with the guys who think we're all terrorist welfare sponges who rape and steal' not out of classism or paranoia, but because that's literally how poo poo has gone nearly every time.

This isn't as new as we pretend. White Rage is a political concept, it comes whenever minorities get too much, and almost always the leftist 'no war but class war' response is 'look if we just work with the guys shouting 'JEW-S-A' and painting 'make america great again' on a burned down church, they'll elect more progressives and it'll be good for everyone'.

There's a lot of voters who feel abandoned, not just white working class people, and I think a lot of people are worried that bridge building will come at a cost of minority communities, because that's how it's been before. Smugly dismissing them as 'identity politics' and all won't help, these are real concerns, and we're supposed to be on their side too.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 01:34

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Fullhouse posted:

thats easy: just say Working Class instead of White Working Class. minorities make up much more of the working class than white people do and the dems took their votes for granted so much that a ton of them didn't bother voting this election. The rust belt has a lot of black workers that have also seen their livelihoods decline, though they have faced unique racial issues as well that we should continue doing work on

This is a good start, but when even Sanders is talking about 'white working class' the anxiety grows.

mrmcd posted:

Hillary Clinton is not president because she ran a bad campaign that lost a key portion of the Democrats' base, not because of racism, woke twitter kids, or Lena Dunham.

Hillary Clinton is not president because she ran a bad campaign that lost a key portion of the Democrats' base, not because of racism, woke twitter kids, or Lena Dunham.

Hillary Clinton is not president because she ran a bad campaign that lost a key portion of the Democrats' base, not because of racism, woke twitter kids, or Lena Dunham.

Oh man, all those Dem voters just vanished into the same aether that produced the Republican ones? Weird. Good things no actions have explanations and we simply float around in a helpless void bumping into random events. Surely if we run ANYONE but Hillary we'll sweep the country.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 01:45

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

Who's doing this?

pretty much everyone doing the whole 'this is Joe, he's a Trump voter and he's not a racist, please be nice to Trump voters they're actually all very good people who just got a little confused :shobon:

' act?

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 01:47

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Peel posted:

the mrmcd guy above for one

we can talk about how to form a new progressive politics to excite voters and bla bla bla without this weird 'don't talk about racism' angle

Yea that was was what I was trying to get at in way too many words. We absolutely need to excite voters and the best way to do that is with a message that appeals to the working class, but we can't pretend excitement was the only issue when actually it was just one ingredient in a rich soup of failure and humiliation that we all have to drink from.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 01:53

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Venom Snake posted:

https://twitter.com/WPJohnWagner/status/798325590562639881

I real socialist would have tried to prop up Borders :colbert:

(wait are there any left? Did they fully die yet?)

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 01:54

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Zythrst posted:

Its not calling out racism that is bad, it is acting like people from rural areas are dumb hicks who just won't get with our enlightened way of living. Racism isn't a rural thing racism is prevalent in every area at every income level believe it or not.

I don't argue that at all? In fact the fact that racism is all around is what makes minorities so jumpy about this poo poo in the first place. It starts as stuff like 'hey man we just want school choice for EVERYONE right?' and quickly morphs into 'also maybe we should give these specific schools a leg up because that'll make it easier to get the white support' and then woops Sam Bee and her husband are literally telling people black people shouldn't come to their kids' school in New York!

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 02:02

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Venom Snake posted:

https://twitter.com/WPJohnWagner/status/798328889999327232

I hope he unzipped it real slow so the second Sanders face just gradually emerged from the first.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 02:04

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Thoguh posted:

Tatum setting up a strawman and then smugly knocking it down? It couldn't be.

I guess it's just the general trend of acting like anyone saying 'actually a lot of trump voters were racist as gently caress' somehow is going against what needs to be done? I dunno man I've seen a lot of pushback in a lot of different places to people saying Trump's campaign and support had a lot of bigotry to it. The idea that somehow a trump dude saying a racist thing and saying racism was a factor in a poo poo load of trump voters are both equally wrong to do, that's what I'm talking about I guess.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 02:15

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

No one is doing this. Otherwise, Post the quote. Stop beating around the bush. No one is pushing back. You have an imaginary victim complex lol

Peel posted:

i'm speaking casually in the politics fyadlite

well ok:

here we have 'racism' as trivia of as much relevance as twitter kids and celeb gossip. this isn't what he meant, as he explained above, but it's a natural reading which both i and tatum took

however here's a guy from early in the thread being explicit that race isn't important and we shouldn't talk about it:

my sincere judgement and that of several others is that well-meaning left-wing people can have a bad habit of slipping into minimising race due to an excessive focus on a deracialised idea of the 'working class,' and this would be bad both in itself and as a political strategy, so we're going to warn against it if it feels like it's popping up again

I mean there's these. "Stop talking about race" is a really loving poor solution that will only screw over minorities to appeal to people who probably won't switch sides anyway. I'm sorry I'm not combing the thread for pages of examples when I'm talking about a more general trend that exists beyond SA?

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 02:24

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Zythrst posted:

I hope its on Audible I got some credits lying around.

Oh sweet I think I just got mine for the month.

Shinjobi posted:

The point is that chalking up this loss to racists and racists alone is dumb as poo poo and misses the point.

Anyone saying racism determined the outcome of the election is ignorant of the complete picture or being intentionally misleading because they don't want to talk the other issues. And ooooooh boy, the DNC really likes doing the second one right now.

I completely agree, which is why I'm not saying that! I

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 02:32

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Zythrst posted:

Also its narrated by Bernie and Mark Ruffalo so now I want Bernie to be in The Avengers.

"That's my secret, I'm always revolutionary"

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 02:35

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

BEAR GRYLLZ posted:

yes but thankfully our new president has promised to bring them back and defend them bigly

Hold up guys.

Borders wall.

Big beautiful door.

Expensive and probably a bad investment that's best to get someone else to pay for.

Made almost instantly pointless in the modern day.

poo poo guys he just wanted to make us REALLY well read with a huge wall of bookstores! We had this Trump guy all wrong!

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 02:41

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Powercrazy posted:

was 100% correct and you should never forget it.

let's not go wild here

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 03:03

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Venom Snake posted:

You are correct. That doesn't mean we aren't in for four years of unending nightmare.

https://twitter.com/rtraister/status/798579750558044160

"Obviously we needed to go even more centrist"

lol if anyone actually tries to push 'no no we need BIDEN and guys like him'. Like, that would just straight up be an admission that the only issue they had with Clinton was gender based then.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 19:12

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Thoguh posted:

Oh god, I just bought Bernie's book. What if he's on the Carson plan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llRmyRgmshM

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 19:17

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

redneck nazgul posted:

It's not about gender, it's about authenticity in connecting to people. Biden has it, Hillary doesn't.

Biden's authentic as gently caress, comparatively broke as gently caress for a politician, and doesn't give off the robotic controlled air that Hillary does, even if he's more centrist than both Clintons combined. Biden tears up talking about his son, gets visibly angry talking about the troops he's visited who got blown up, calls things a big loving deal. Hillary would never do that, and I realize that Hillary wanted to moderate herself to avoid the crazy woman card. Seriously, more genuine "Hillary talking about going to space, freaking out at balloons and brushing her shoulder during a bullshit Congressional hearing", less focus tested "dangerous Donald" bullshit and paling around with celebrities.

Given the choice between Trump and the most centrist that ever centered a center, it would still be a win for Democrats because it's not Trump.

isn't the point of this to get someone who's more polished AND more progressive? Biden is to the right of her on multiple issues. If he's your icon for what we need more of you're just coming at it from a completely wrong way

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 19:34

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Oh Snapple! posted:

Stewart once referring to him as Joe "Still Takes the Motherfucking Train to Work" Biden was very endearing.

But Biden himself isn't someone I actually want to be president so that endearment only goes so far.

Yea to be clear I like Biden a ton and think he was a great VP and when they were saying he may Clinton's Secretary of State nod I was 100% into that.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 19:38

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

loquacius posted:

I've been cheerleading shamelessly for Bernie since Nov 9 and nobody's probated me yet

I think it's mostly to prevent flame-wars but again the civil war is actually a palace coup so

yea there's a difference between 'here's the ideas Bernie had that the DNC really better adopt because they're gonna be important' and 'if you look at these polls from months before the primaries even ended you'll find that in a parallel world we'd 100% have president sanders' kinda stuff. One of those is a statement that can be argued with and for, the other is just fuckin political fanfic.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 20:56

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 02:12

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

loquacius posted:

What happened in August, anyway? Did the subforum collectively chill out of its own accord, or was a Problem Poster banned or have their IKdom taken away?

Personally I keep my political fanfic in C:\Documents\Boring Work Stuff\Giant Excel Spreadsheets\memos_from_latest_meeting.txt where it belongs

e: people are like "why is this text file of memos from a meeting like five gigabytes large" and I'm like "oh you're poking around my boring work stuff??? How weird haha why would you do that it's so boring hahaha" while surreptitiously yanking my power cable

I wanna say August is when The Reign of Zoux came to an end

Nonsense posted:

What sucks about Trump's transition troubles is it gives hope his administration will be too incompetent to pursue its goals. This is a lie.

Yea I've had multiple friends be all 'uh maybe he'll be like evil version of Jimmy Carter, you know just kinda unable to get anything actually done?' and that's just so sadly optimistic when he has a congress full of happy hat wearers.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 21:05

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

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