SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

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Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Since the party is effectively broken and leaderless, could a Jeremy Corbyn style takeover with the progressive caucus leading the charge with someone like Keith Ellison or Tulsi Gabbard succeed? Someone who just stands up and gives people someone to rally to by complete repudating CLintonism, who isn't perceived as from the Clintonite camp as Tim Kaine and the NoVa Dems? Or would there be too much backlash from the remaining Clintonites

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 01:32

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 16:28

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Cross postin this from the other thread

DryGoods posted:

James Carville said something interesting last night. There were two factions in the early days of the Clinton campaign. One wanted her to reach out to those hurt and still hurting by the Great Recession, telling them how the Dems didn't forget them. The other wanted her to skate by, using her temperament and the established voting blocs who vote D no matter what. One side won the debate and lost the election.

If anyone wants to blame racists or white people or third parties and think the lesson is to out-hate the other guys, we're in for rough time in the weeds. This loss is Hillary's.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 04:03

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

There's also going to be a slaughtering of campaign staff and no real heirs to replace them. Most of the powerhouses from the Obama campaign like David Axelrod, David Plouff, Danel Pfeiffer, and other are in the private sector and probably don't want to touch the tire fire that is the 2018 and 2020 races. Meanwhile Podesta, Mook, and his ilk are entirely discredited.

But it also bring into question the sobering thought that the vaunted Obama campaign machine was completely buoyed by the greatest campaigner in living memory, and doesn't have the magic abilities everyone was assigning to it. Even if we get the A-Team back, it may not be worth a drat if we have a weak candidate.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 04:19

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

No, that one was called Narwhal

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 14:10

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

lol if you thought Clintonism would die immediately

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/us/politics/their-leadership-lean-democrats-turn-an-eye-to-rebuilding.html?_r=0

quote:

�We don�t know who will emerge as a leader,� said Matt Bennett, the president of Third Way, a centrist Democratic organization. �Chuck Schumer will probably emerge as a congressional leader. Nationally, it�s going to take some time for a leader to emerge.�

Mr. Bennett said he believed Mrs. Clinton was the best choice for the Democrats this year.

�There wasn�t anyone who was going to push her off the stage after she paid her dues and did her time and got close in �08,� he said. �She was the secretary of state and had Obama�s backing. She was as much an anointed candidate as a vice president would have been.�

his profile on his think tank bio literally has this as the first line sounds like a winner imo

quote:

As a 23-year-old campaign staffer, Matt Bennett helped stage the infamous �Dukakis in a tank" photo-op that helped sink Michael Dukakis' 1988 presidential campaign. Matt would never again put a candidate in a tank (other than a think tank), but now he's a long-serving veteran of many political wars.

also purge the party imo

quote:

Bill Richardson, the Democratic former governor of New Mexico, said Tuesday�s vote was more than anything a �pro-Trump, anti-establishment punch.� But he said Democrats had their work cut out for them as they tried to rebuild.

�Democrats should develop a more progressive agenda, � la Sanders, particularly on income inequality issues,� he said, adding that the �2020 field should be wide open and Democrats should develop a wider bench of younger candidates.�

But Mr. Richardson, who worked in the Clinton White House � but went on to endorse Mr. Obama against Mrs. Clinton in 2008 � also said that her time in Democratic politics had not ended with her loss. �Hillary should play a major role in reshaping the party,� he said.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 17:22

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Mister Fister posted:

Awww, i asked for clemency for Zikan in the QCS thread

i never back down from a promise!

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 17:34

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

mrmcd posted:

Yeah it would be neat if Trump actually did good populist economic spending and didn't end up as an empty vessel with no interest in governance while all the conservative retreads from the past 20 years just gently caress everything up behind the scenes.

are you insane, this would give him another term

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 17:57

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

exquisite tea posted:

So basically Clinton lost for all the same exact reasons why she lost the primary in 2008. This is all so obvious to me now for so many different reasons but at the time my feeling was that she had learned from her mistakes and was following Obama's model to the presidency. L M A O

they hired all of the obama people they could but all the good ones went to the corporate boards of uber and gofundme so she got the awful ones lamo

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 18:29

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Astroclassicist posted:

https://twitter.com/HawthorneLAT/status/796765393121480704

How could no one, and I include my own not-at-all important views in this, see that there might be an issue up in the Rust Belt?

campaign surrogates like Sanders post-primary just take marching orders from the campaign and have no idea of the mechanics of the race beyond what they are told and what they read and see. he probably didn't know the hillary campaign's internal rust belt poll numbers

not like it would have mattered anyway because their algorithm was garbage lamo

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 18:34

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

sanders has made his first move for progressives to take over the dnc. keith ellison is the co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus which is basically then anti-third way/clinton faction of the party

http://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/11/10/sanders-decries-working-class-vote-for-trump

quote:

Bernie Sanders is leaving open the possibility of another presidential bid, saying in a Thursday interview that he wants to focus on helping the party rebuild its base after Donald Trump's victory.

"Four years is a long time from now," said the 75-year-old Vermont senator, noting that he faces re-election to the Senate in 2018. But he added: "We'll take one thing at a time, but I'm not ruling out anything."

Sanders gave voice to the frustration among many liberals in the aftermath of Trump's stunning triumph over Hillary Clinton. He told The Associated Press in a phone interview that millions of working-class voters' decision to back Trump was "an embarrassment" to the party and that Democrats must take a strong stand against the role of corporate interests in politics.

"It is an embarrassment, I think, to the entire of Democratic Party that millions of white working-class people decided to vote for Mr. Trump, which suggests that the Democratic message of standing up for working people no longer holds much sway among workers in this country," Sanders said.

The Vermont senator declined to criticize his primary rival, Hillary Clinton, attributing Tuesday's election loss to a "lack of enthusiasm" among Democrats. "People just did not come out to vote," he said.

He said he would support Rep. Keith Ellison of Minnesota to become the next chairman of the Democratic National Committee.

Sanders endorsed Clinton after their lengthy primary and campaigned extensively for her. He said she's had "an exemplary political career. She has served the public for many, many decades and has broken many barriers," adding that "she deserves an enormous amount of credit. She worked extraordinarily hard in this campaign."

But he said the party as a whole was unable to make a strong enough case to struggling workers, particularly in the industrial Midwest, who sided with Trump.

"You cannot be a party which on one hand says we're in favor of working people, we're in favor of the needs of young people but we don't quite have the courage to take on Wall Street and the billionaire class. People do not believe that. You've got to decide which side you're on."

While he said he was hopeful he would be able to work with the incoming Trump administration, he made clear that would not be likely.

"I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow," Sanders said of the president-elect.

Sanders said he had not yet considered whether to seek a leadership position within the Senate Democratic caucus and was expected to become the top Democrat on either the Budget Committee or another post. But he said he would seek to mobilize Democrats to help the party rebuild.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 20:01

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Thoguh posted:

Speaking of the Bernie thread it is definitely bullshit that Bernie toxxers got banned before he even officially lost but Hillary toxxers are getting a pass.

Free Matey.

don't worry we all got banned in the end

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 20:44

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

GlyphGryph posted:

A Bernie/Hillary ticket

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 20:48

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Oh Snapple! posted:

lol they're literally not prepared because Clinton culled the field so thoroughly they probably didn't have any plans for the next 8 years

i wouldn't be surprised if Cory Booker is looking into a run

he must stopped at all costs if he does

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 21:02

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

mastershakeman posted:

my co-workers have been hyping him and Gavin newsome all morning

gavin newsome is another one that must be stopped at all costs

also in the look for tolerable democrats, keep an eye on Cortez Masto, she owes her seat due to nevada being the only rapidly unionizing state in the country and it is sounding like she's gonna go full "gently caress trump"

https://twitter.com/CatherineForNV/status/796428045489827840
https://twitter.com/CatherineForNV/status/796428815828299776
https://twitter.com/CatherineForNV/status/796429129595764736

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 21:08

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Fast Luck posted:

He sucks for shilling for Bain Capital of all places, he's probably not economically progressive at all, and would just lead to the dems continuing to hemorrhage house and senate seats. He might be able to win the presidency though. So sort of like Obama

which is why he must be stopped. he would essentially be charismatic hillary that can give a decent speech. it would be a victory for third wayism and if we plan to actually govern this country we need to purge it out

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 21:15

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Homework Explainer posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co7GpMks8UA

thsi guy will play well in the rust belt

dude is absolutely gonna be the last gasp of the neoliberals if sanders is successful in a corbyn style takeover of the DNC

Thoguh posted:

Big Hillary supporter who shat on Bernie as hard as he could Al Franken?

there's gonna be a lot of these, we need to allow some to make penance but make sure they're fully behind left economic populism or else imo

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 21:33

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

robert reich on policy, much like james carville wrt electoral strategy, was one of the good ones so naturally he was gradually shut out of policymaking during the clinton whitehouse. but i agree, no more detritus of the clinton era

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 21:40

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

you gotta remember that for the white working class vote, obama portrayed himself in 2012 as saving the auto industry (i.e. thousands of jobs in the rust belt) vs. a chariticure of gordan geeko / i.e. economic populism vs a technocrat

imagine if hillary had invested in ads like this one from the steelworkers instead of "Trump's crazy lol" *ukalele & glockenspiel music*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7oxlTfqYk0

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 22:53

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

mastershakeman posted:

considering that two straight white Christian men were just elected in recommending the Democrats find some of those are their candidates

*lights the sherrod brown signal*

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 23:07

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

HannibalBarca posted:

He'll need to survive 2018 first

well at least the bernie dnc will have a goal beyond stamping out third wayism now

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 23:11

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Corek posted:

https://twitter.com/GovHowardDean/status/796838538641833990

the pushback of the new democrats begins

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 23:37

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

it's likely that whatever remains of the new democrats will back Dean as an "acceptable" compromise with the progressives. this is the first fight.

the civil war is on and you need to start fighting now.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 23:43

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Dapper_Swindler posted:

is he that bad?

dean fits all of the characteristics of a trojan horse to trick the progressives:

1. from a time that is associated with victory (50 state strategy which payed incredible dividends in 2006 and 2008)
2. was the progressive option in 2004 until he lost to john kerry
3. firebrand speaking style

1. worked as a pharma lobbyist
2. with newt gingrich at the same firm
3.

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 23:54

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

because this is my only source of hope right now i'm literally looking up the bylaws of the DNC here: http://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.democrats.org/Downloads/DNC_Charter__Bylaws_9.17.15.pdf

quote:

ARTICLE FIVE
National Chairperson
Section 1. The National Chairperson of the Democratic Party shall carry out the programs and
policies of the National Convention and the Democratic National Committee.
Section 2. The National Chairperson, the five Vice Chairpersons, the National Finance Chair, the Treasurer, and the Secretary, shall be elected:
(a) at a meeting of the Democratic National Committee held after the succeeding presidential election and prior to March 1 next, and,

(b) whenever a vacancy occurs.

The National Chairperson shall be elected and may be
removed by a majority vote of the Democratic National Committee, and each term shall expire upon the election for the following term.

as far as I can tell the Democratic National Committee consists of

quote:

Section 2. The Democratic National Committee shall be composed of:
(a) the Chairperson and the highest ranking officer of the opposite sex of each recognized state Democratic Party and of the Democratic Parties of Guam, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa and the Northern Mariana Islands;
(b) two hundred additional members apportioned to the states on the basis set forth in Article Two, Section 5(a) of the Charter, consistent with the full participation goals of Sections 3 and 4 of Article Eight of the Charter; provided that each state shall have at least two such additional members
(c) two additional members, consisting of one national committeeman and one national committeewoman, from each of Guam, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa and the Northern Mariana Islands;
(d) the Chairperson of the Democratic Governors' Association and two additional governors, of whom, at least one shall be of the opposite sex of the Chairperson, as selected by the Association;
(e) the Democratic Leader in the United States Senate and the Democratic Leader in the United States House of Representatives and one additional member of each body, who shall be of the opposite sex of, and appointed by, the respective leaders;
(f) the Chairperson, the five Vice Chairpersons, the National Finance Chair, the Treasurer, and the Secretary of the DNC;
(g) the Chairperson of the National Conference of Democratic Mayors and two additional mayors, at least one of whom shall be of the opposite sex of the Chairperson, as selected by the Conference;
(h) the President of the Young Democrats of America and two additional members, at least one of whom shall be of the opposite sex as the President, as selected by the organization biennially in convention assembled;
(i) the Chairperson of the Democratic County Officials and two additional county officials, at least one of whom shall be of the opposite sex as t
he Chairperson, as selected by the organization;
(j) the Chairperson of the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee and two additional
state legislators, at least one of whom shall be of the opposite sex as the Chairperson, as selected by the
Committee;
(k) the Chairperson of the National Democratic Municipal Officials Conference and two additional municipal officials, at least one of whom shall be of the opposite sex as the Chairperson, as selected by the Conference;
(l) the President of the National Federation of Democratic Women and two additional
members selected by the Federation;
(m) the President of the College Democrats of America and the Vice President, who shall be of the opposite sex, as elected by the organization annually;
(n) the Chairperson of the National Association of Democratic State Treasurers and the Vice Chair who shall be of the opposite sex, as selected by the Association;
(o) the Chairperson of the National Association of Democratic Lieutenant Governors and the Vice Chair who shall be of the opposite sex, as selected by the Association;
(p) the Chairperson of the Democratic Association of Secretaries of State and the Vice Chair who shall be of the opposite sex, as selected by the Association;
(q) the Chairperson of the Democratic Attorneys General Association and one additional attorney general who shall be of the opposite sex of the Chairperson, as selected by the Association;
(r) the Chairperson of the National Democratic Ethnic Coordinating Committee, who is not otherwise a member of the Democratic National Committee and one additional member, who shall be of the opposite sex, as selected by the Coordinating Committee;
(s) the Chairperson of the National Democratic Seniors Coordinating Council, who is not otherwise a member of the Democratic National Committee and one additional member, who shall be of the opposite sex, as selected by the Coordinating Council;

i may begin a spread sheet with the contact info of all of these fucks so phone, letter, and e-mail campaigns can begin

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 00:11

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Vox Nihili posted:

The only reason I don't immediately reject Dean is that I'm terrified of the prospect of an even emptier suit getting the job. DWS syndrome.

don't be afraid. the dnc got us into this message. they completely failed the country. the blood of this horrific administration is on their hands as well.

be angry. sharpen your anger into a knife and use it to cut off this gangrenous ideology.

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 00:15

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Cyron posted:

look may i ask something, i live in chicago, i voted and campaign for Bernie in the primaries and got my whole family from brother, parents and cosion who hate politics to vote for him. i want the DNC to go away from the neoliberal direction, what do i do as someone who never did collage but always follow the election.

everyone's laid out the immediate steps of volunteering but for the first battle in dem civil war is to ensure that bernie sander's candidate, congressman keith ellison, is picked dnc chair. i laid out the process the chair is selected in this post

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3797403&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=41#post466337725

in short it is not a party election like uk labor but decided upon by a vote of the committee members

individually you can contact the relevant individuals by phone, letter, and e-mail to express you support for congressman ellison. figure out who you can contact and do it. tell you friends. organize.

i don't know if this pressure will help but it's something

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 00:29

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

i've started working on the spreadsheet for DNC committee members and will post it when I've got the state party chairs and seconds and keep updating it the other categories

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 01:21

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Raskolnikov38 posted:

yo whoever was collecting info for the spreadsheet here's the webpage listing california's DNC members: http://www.cadem.org/our-party/dnc-members

most of them are private citizens tho so should probably not try to track down contact info. here's the contact info for the party HQ tho if california goons want to pester them about putting keith in charge

California Democratic Party Headquarters
1830 9th Street
Sacramento, CA 95811
(916) 442-5707 phone
(916) 442-5715 fax

info@cadem.org

thank you

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 02:44

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Grand Theft Autobot posted:

So who the gently caress do I email about making Ellison chair?

i'm working on The List

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 03:40

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Doorknob Slobber posted:

from the other thread here: https://go.berniesanders.com/page/s/keith-ellison-dnc the link to support keith ellison for chair

oh god damnit sanders

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 03:45

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Thundercracker posted:

If you want something CONCRETE to do right this second, right now contact your Democratic representative and plead with them to back Bernie Sander's pick for DNC chair, Keith Ellison.
Here's my letter to Chuck Schumer, which I hope at least one of his people reads:

"Dear Mr. Schumer,

First I'd like to say that I've been a Democratic supporter my entire adult life. I donated for both Obama and Clinton, and voted for her over Bernie Sanders in the NY primary. I voted for you in this election, and until Tuesday night, considered myself a firm supporter of the 3rd Way centralism.

I mention this only to show that I realize the seriousness of situation and what must be done. Please please please do the right thing and back Bernie Sander's pick, Keith Ellison, for the DNC chairman, and let Bernie's movement lead the party. The credibility of the establishment Democrats has been destroyed utterly. I have called into question my own judgement for not seeing the populist movement that is reshaping America. There is only one way forward, and one person who can lead it.

If we re-unite and fight together under a common banner we can re-take our country in 2020. I absolutely believe this. But if we, Democrats, have a civil war between the progressive and centralist wing it will be the end of liberalism of all stripe.

I implore you. Please do the right thing. There is no going back to the old ways."

see, funny thing about this is that it's a vote of the dnc committee which does include schumer but doesn't include all elected democratic representative. it's this weird combination of like 12 groups

i'm making a spread sheet because there no way the average person will find and and by god is it going slowly

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 03:51

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Venom Snake posted:

I had a conference call that talked about this today! I hope mook is sent out to sea on a raft!

how likely is keith for dnc chair.

i'm writing out a spreadsheet of all the dnc committee members i can find contact info for so people can e-mail/call/write for keith should i keep going

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 04:51

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Rand alPaul posted:

I was just going to ask, where do I send my letter? So far I just have this address:

Democratic National Committee
430 South Capitol Street Southeast
Washington, DC 20003

okay so it's complicated.

the dnc is a committee that consists of the things i outlined in this post: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3797403&userid=50373#post466337725

some of the people make sense like the state democratic party chairperson and vice chairperson (if there are multiple vice chairpeople i've been goin with the one labeled 1st) but some of it random stuff like the National Democratic Municipal Officials Conference. lots of people i haven't been able to find contact info for. and 200 additional members that apprently hold no other office besides DNC member, which i have no idea how to find who or what their contact info is.

Venom Snake posted:

DNC isn't prepared to put up any resistance right now. Most of my interaction right now with is with what little campaign people whove not fled and the VA/FL parties on rebuilding plans

thank you, i'm almost done anyway, might as well unleash it on bernie groups and put the fear of god in them if they suddenly decided to grow a spine

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 05:11

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

why the gently caress does charles schumer have eight offices, which one am i supposed to call and send mail to goddamnit

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 05:26

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

booker isn't gonna shoot for dnc chair, it's a downgrade to a job where he'll get a ton of work and not a lot of credit for a presidential run. won't build up his 2020 run, which is where you should be worried

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 05:29

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

oh my loving god the dnc website's link to the new mexico party takes you to this

the dnc is too lazy or incompentent to link to the real site http://www.dpnm.net/

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 05:49

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Mo_Steel posted:

Might be worth contacting them to see if they'll send you a list? I can't imagine it's confidential.

I would have to call or mail them on monday, their only e-mail contact is one of those "submit comments" black holes

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 06:06

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

no

noo

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

http://nypost.com/2016/11/10/chelsea-clinton-being-groomed-to-run-for-congress/

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 06:29

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

Schumer backing keith confirms what venom snake is saying about the party being completely leaderless and broken. It's really difficult to overstate how much of the internal power structure of the democratic party has been violently upeneded with the collapse of the clinton faction, with hundreds of party apparatchiks completely giving up and leaving or having an extreme existential crisis

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

Who and what

Sorry if this was explained just a few pages ago before I showed up

congressman keith ellision has put his name foward for dnc chair and is supported by bernie. he is the second in command of the congresional progressive caucus and basically and third way/clintonism as you can get.

senate minority leader chuck schumer is a vile snake who does what is best for schumer and was a major force supporting the clinton faction. him running to the progressives like a dog, where he would be viewed with suspicion by the new locus of power of progressives and left-liberals is a weathervane that he think this is only way to avoid getting eaten by the mob

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 15:32

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 16:28

Zikan: Feb 29, 2004

jesus if O'Malley is running, that means multiple establishment candidates. the fact that they couldn't get schumer is still hopeful because to give you an idea of how much of a clintonite schumer is

this was in october

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 17:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

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