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FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido

Bad Palits was a masterpiece.

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FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

I think it's related to sound channels and the fact that games typically work only as well as they need to. Super Metroid hacks occasionally have sound effect problems with sprites when they're used in areas with music they aren't normally going to be paired with. Metroids and Mocktroids for example required specific music tracks for their sound effects to load correctly, otherwise you get weird sounds playing instead.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

Mak0rz posted:

Also Artix please enjoy this cover of Hot Head Bop by Poop Poop Fart
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWa6gVunVLE

God I love this guy's covers. They sound so faithful to the real songs but just super high quality.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido



Welcome back to the Zelda 3 Randomizer! There was a run of this last year for this thread done by CirclMaster and CombatLobster so why are we doing it again? Well the answer is simple.

KEYSANITY

The Randomizer received a lot of updates over the past year, including tons of new player character sprites, randomization logic updates, and new modes of play. One of these new modes is Keysanity, a mode that randomizes everything, including the location of all the Dungeon Keys, Big Keys, Maps and Compasses in the game. Need to progress through Eastern Palace? Well the Big Key might be located in Skull Woods. Or the reward for turning in the Mushroom to the Witch might be a Small Key for the Ice Palace. Basically, this mode randomizes things even more, and is more fun in my opinion. Runs these days are all designed to be 100% beatable and just reliant on player skill. There should be no impossible situations like occur with some other randomizers (Ask me about not being able to get Gravity Suit because it was in a room full of water and vertical passages in Super Metroid).

So hot off our recent completion of DKC2 Lost Levels, I decided I'm going to drag Artix through a Keysanity run of the game to see what sort of shenanigans we can get up to. And boy are we already getting up to shenanigans. He's in control of the Spoiler file so he can look up where everything is. We may also have additional guests in future recording sessions. Here's to a fun run!

The run we are playing has the following options:

Mode: Open (We don't start with a sword but the beginning castle sequence is marked as completed
Goal: Defeat Ganon (If you can get to Ganon and kill him, you win, regardless of how much important stuff you have collected)
Seed: 745127604 (I think)
Logic: No Glitches
Difficulty: Normal
Variation: Keysanity

If you want to play the randomizer for yourself, you can generate runs here: http://vt.alttp.run/ You will need to supply your own Japanese Zelda 3 rom for the randomizer to work. I can't tell you where to find one, but mine is called Zelda no Densetsu - Kamigami no Triforce (J) (V1.0) and yours probably will be too. The (J) (V1.0) is the important part.

Table of Contents:




- with nine-gear crow, ChaosArgate, Tyty, Demerine, and Ryushikaze.
- with nine-gear crow, ChaosArgate, Tyty, Demerine, and Ryushikaze.
- with nine-gear crow, ChaosArgate, Tyty, Demerine, and Ryushikaze.
- with nine-gear crow, Tyty, Demerine, and Ryushikaze.
- with nine-gear crow and Tyty.
- with nine-gear crow and Tyty.
- with nine-gear crow and Tyty.
- with nine-gear crow and Tyty.

FPzero fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Mar 9, 2018

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Oh, this should be good. I've been watching a lot of randomizer videos on YouTube; there's a shedload of them, all with commentary, from a tournament that was run a bit ago. Quality of play and commentary is obviously variable, but there's a ton of runs and some of them get pretty nuts.

My favorite was one where...let's see. The runners got access to the Dark World really early, via Titan's Mitts. But there were no swords in the overworld, lightside or darkside, so they had to go into dungeons without a proper weapon, or much in the way of health either. Hookshot was in Skull Woods, that gave access to flippers somehow, they then had to go into Ice Palace with the Bombos medallion. Ice Palace had fire rod and the bow, and somewhere they picked up the L1 sword. They had to use that to kill Mothula (Skull Woods boss) and I think it was the Armos Knights with the bow; they were the 5 and 6 crystals, which unlock the Big Bomb in the dark world bomb shop.

But they still don't have the hammer, so there was no way to walk the bomb to the pyramid! They had to go kill Agahnim so they could buy the bomb, mirror, walk to Hyrule Castle, and use the castle gate teleporter to get to the pyramid and blast open that cracked wall. The Dark World fairy fountain finally gave them the ocarina, with which they could get to Misery Mire, which had the hammer that finally unlocked the rest of the seed.

The quantity of upgrades, especially heart containers, waiting around in Ganon's Tower was pretty ridiculous. :allears:

Sadly (or fortunately?) our run is not that crazy, but there is still a bit of "where do we go from here?" to be had. That run you described does sound amazing though.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

nine-gear crow posted:

This was all for want of "Hey, can you guys wait like an hour for us to get home and join you?" / "No, gently caress you Crow/Argate. FP wants to go to bed." :v:

You guys said it was gonna be like two hours and it was already 10pm where i was.

Enjoy your Bogus Adventure!

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

Mak0rz posted:

Do you have to do any speedrunning techniques bullshit to get past some situations? I really want to try this but I might not if that's the case...

For Zelda or Super Metroid? Super Metroid usually requires passing knowledge of speed tricks even for its easier modes though this may have changed. Zelda doesn't seem to if you're playing without glitches.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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We FINALLY get something that can reliably kill enemies! And then we wander around for a while, trying to do dungeons but can't. Now with episode thumbnails!

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

We actually recorded again last night and are probably up to episode 8 or so. By my best guess, we'll probably beat the whole thing in the next session.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Time to dive into the Dark World without the mirror and pray we've got an escape solution!

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido



We decide to be smart guys and go visit Misery Mire much earlier than any reasonable person ever would.

Next set of videos will start going up once I've had a chance to finish editing them all.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

Trasson posted:

Why did you stand around for the tiles to finish missing you when you could have just walked to the keys and opened the doors?

Because thinking is not my strong suit.

Real answer: Because either I forgot that the keys were under the pots until after the fact or didn't feel like dodging tiles while trying to remember which pot the key is under because despite running a randomizer here I don't actually remember everything's location.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

Mak0rz posted:

If it's not in a dungeon then obviously it's laying about in some fuckoff cave somewhere. These are a few things that slipped my mind in my playthrough:

- tree near the lumberjack hut
- give King Zora $500
- the ridiculous number of caves in eastern Death Mountain (Dark World and Light)
- throw powder on the shrine under the blacksmith
- the Master Sword pedestal (I never got a third pendant until WAY late)
- the ocarina grove if you're like me and got the shovel long after the instrument


Also don't forget the chest and shovel games.

Another couple to check would be there's a cave above Swamp Palace with 4 chests behind a bomb wall and a man in the cave. Talk to him for an item. The same can be said of the similar cave in the Light world with the mini moldorms guarding a man and 4 or 5 chests. Don't forget to talk to the man there.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

Max Peck posted:

With keysanity, you can get some pretty amazing GT multi-dips if the GT big key is well-hidden. The worst I've played is just a double-dip, though: the GT big key was at lumberjacks, but there was a CT small key in GT. (Hookshot was in the second CT chest, so that was also a required CT double-dip.)

The worst I could imagine offhand would be something like:
Mire/Swamp/TR all pendants; TR green pendant
Sword upgrade on pedestal, sword upgrade on Bombos tablet, sword upgrade in GT big chest
Mirror in GT behind Armos Knights
Cape in Swamp first chest (giving Castle Tower access, since there's no way to get master sword yet)
Swamp small key in CT first chest
Red cane in Swamp - not sure if Arrghus or left side is trollier
One required medallion for TR or Mire on GT right-side, the other in GT tile room
Flute in TR big key chest
Ice rod in Mire on Vitreous
CT small key as green pendant reward
Boots in CT second chest
Mushroom on DP torch - no payoff
Shovel on GT torch - leads to CT small key
GT big key at lumberjacks

I'm sure that could be improved, but you get the idea. Probably the randomizer isn't going to do that to you anyway, right?

This sounds like a hellish seed that should absolutely be made into a custom game using their Custom Game option and distributed as punishment to users here as a mod challenge.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

Rabbi Raccoon posted:

I could have sworn I tried that. But it's been a very long weekend. I could very well be imagining things.

I read about this too. This is taken from their Common Pitfalls Randomizer Guide (located here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eOabgvHCKqncO9JzZQR6T-b6yuTtAOuu3INZyOIRupM/edit )

quote:

If you flood the small key in the second switch room (left to the Big Chest room) without first acquiring the small key under the skull pot, you will be unable to progress in the dungeon. To correct this you must leave Swamp Palace, walk to a neighbouring screen and then walk back to the Swamp Palace, mirror to the Light World, drain the swamp, then return to the Dark World and finally re-enter the Swamp Palace. This will reset the water inside the dungeon and allow you to acquire the small key that was previously made inaccessible.

Using the Magic Mirror to go to the Light World, and then transitioning back to the Dark World will not work! You must screen transition away from the Swamp Palace and go back.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido

Separate from the LP file, I played a Master Sword Pedestal game over the last two days and it was a pretty interesting one. If anyone wants to give it a shot, here are the details:

Difficulty: Normal
Variation: Keysanity
Logic: No Glitches
Seed: 916591944
Goal: Master Sword Pedestal
Mode: Open

I forgot a screenshot but I beat it in about 4 hours with somewhere around 185/216 items collected. See if you can do better! It lured me into a false sense of security with some early obtains but I quickly found out that this run had a lot more meat to it. I'm kind of sad this isn't the LP run to be honest!

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido



We're back with another recording session and we're joined this time by nine-gear crow, ChaosArgate, Tyty, Demerine and Ryushikaze for a total of seven idiots bumbling their way through the randomizer. Somehow, it works out?

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

Trizophenie posted:

Oh god this one is evil. I stumbled around for a good hour just to get that last item to finish. I think beating Ganon would have been faster than getting the Pedestal the way stuff was placed.

See what I mean about the false sense of security though? :mmmhmm: Yeah it's a bit of a rough one in places!

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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One day, we will find the Palace of Darkness Big Key, but that day isn't today. In the meantime, we learn about many things, such as tree anatomy.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

That Shadow Man fight is insane, holy cow. It wouldn't be so bad if those explosions weren't one-shots. But it was all worth it to watch the mini robot masters die in 5 seconds. :v:

By the way, is this the last video or is there a little more to be seen? I only ask because I think once my Keysanity videos are finished I'm going to close out the thread but I don't want to close it prematurely if you still have content left on this game.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Blaze Dragon posted:

Aw man, I've been really enjoying this thread. I'll be sad to see it go, but I'm glad it happened and I'm thankful for the efforts of everyone involved.

It's definitely been fun but it has definitely been winding down for a while now. Seems like it makes sense to give it a proper send off once I'm done with Keysanity.

That said, if anyone else wants to start up something else I won't close it! The closure idea is just a result of the relative activity in here before Keysanity started up. I love seeing romhacks though and there are a ton out there still worth showing off. I just can't play them all myself!

I'm considering opening up a Zelda 3 Randomizer thread because it seems like there's interest beyond just this one thread but it probably be a thread more suited to Games instead of Let's Play.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido



According to a random person on the internet, Golden Sun doesn't have enough words. Please bear in mind that its script is longer than Metal Gear Solid 2's script. Random Person On The Internet is insane.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Alright we raced Keysanity today on Faerie Fortune's Twitch channel for fun and for those of you that thought the seed I gave earlier was a bastard, you've got to play this one:

code:
    "meta": {
        "difficulty": "normal",
        "variation": "key-sanity",
        "logic": "no-glitches-28",
        "seed": 56817365,
        "goal": "ganon",
        "build": "2018-01-06",
        "mode": "open"
Good luck, don't get discouraged, and be smart about how you use your keys in certain key heavy dungeons. I beat it in 4:15:00 or so.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

Nah it's gonna say "A Big Fuckin' Nerd". :v:



Crow tells us the story of his Russian Pringles knockoffs as I stumble my way through Swamp Palace and Tower of Hera.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido



nine-gear crow and Tyty join us for the final recording session of Keysanity. I impose a drinking game upon myself and then dive into the Ice Palace.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

oldskool posted:

Bombos melts Kholdstare's ice block in one hit, while the Fire Rod takes eight blasts. You emptied your magic on seven fire rod blasts & then switched to Bombos after chugging a green potion :negative:

It didn't end up mattering but still.

This is a learning LP.

By which I mean I learn many things from everyone here after the fact.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido



WE FOUND IT

and also say screw it to ever fighting Trinexx this run.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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C-Euro posted:

You might have already mentioned it, but do the telepathy stones in the dungeons do anything important in this hack?

Some of them tell you things related to the randomizer, but not all of them. I think the one in Eastern Palace mentions that you need the Bow to finish it.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

^^^ I thought Fire Rod could only be used 7 times before draining the bar for some reason. Hm. Still, that's an interesting write up of the magic system!



Now Fairy is my best friend. And we can finally run fast for all the good that does us.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

I don't know what the reason is but I wish that they could be mixed. It might have something to do with the way the game populates the Triforce Pieces and having to make sure they don't overwrite key locations?



We charge our way up Ganon's Tower and beat the game while Artix tells me all the things I missed out on. Thanks for watching the LP!

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

Which seed was that? Was it the first one I posted where Mirror was halfway down Turtle Rock? Or the race seed we used where Hookshot was on Master Sword Pedestal? Either way, both seeds were pretty ridiculous so good job on finishing one of them!

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

So I'm enjoying seeing just how messed up you've made this game but I've got a few suggestions to improve your videos since I believe you mention in one of the vids that you're not super experienced with this stuff yet.

First off, I'm not sure your intro is needed since we already know what we're clicking on when we see an update in the thread. Personally, I'd rather just see the game begin immediately.
Second, I don't think I understand most of the inserted jokes and clips you're editing into the videos. What was the point of the Eric Andre clip at the end of episode 2 or the skateboarding kid in 3? Stuff like these clips are taking me out of the moment more than anything else because they're generally not introduced leaving me to guess why I'm suddenly watching 15 seconds of something unrelated to the LP. That said, I'm cool with the Spanish Flea over top a technical difficulties image for when you need it because it's simple and the image describes exactly why it's there. Also because Spanish Flea is funny and I've used it in my own videos for dumb poo poo before too. I also think other small things like the R.I.P. images screens for Slugma and Nincada during that Riolu fight were fine because I do enjoy dumb stuff like that in videos. So there are good edits and bad edits in here, and I'd say the best ones are the ones that make the most sense in context with what's going on and probably don't require obscure outside knowledge or injokes to get.
Third, you mentioned a couple times that you're worried about dead air. From experience, I'll tell you that it's better to have a few seconds of dead air than to force yourself to say something to fill it. You and your friend mesh well together in conversation and that matters more than forcing out filler sentences. That said, I know you said you were worried than if he ever stops talking, that means his internet has crapped out and so it's a way for you to check for technical difficulties. Try to find a balance if possible.
Fourth, you've mentioned a few times now that there are a couple problems with audio balance when comparing your voice with the game's volume. My recommendation to solve this, if you aren't already, is to record your voice totally separate from the game's audio by using an external recorder like Audacity. I assume that you're capturing your voice, your friends voice and the game's audio all at the same time. Recording them separately will allow you to adjust volumes manually before you put together the final video product, but all this will result in a longer editing process. In fact, your friend can also record their audio locally with Audacity and then send it to you. If you need help with this sort of recording setup, I'm sure the Tech Support Fort would be able to help in more detail.
Fifth, now that you've started employing editing to jump around and skip some things (which is a good thing overall) here are some tips to have cleaner cuts. Instead of a straight jump cut like what happens when you moved from the item bag to the trainer fight, you should use half-second or one-second Fade Outs/Ins or Cross Dissolves to make the transition less jarring and clearly inform the viewer that we've jumped ahead in time. The first time it happened, which was the cut to the trainer fight, I wasn't sure what had happened and spent a couple seconds figuring out "oh we're doing editing now". This sounds really nitpicky and I'm sorry if it comes off that way

And now for a big thing I wanted to mention. While I have absolutely no problem with you doing this LP in this thread, you may have missed the conversation that was going on in here that I was planning to wrap this thread up, close it, and send my stuff off to be archived. Given that conversation, I was surprised to see you put a new LP in here. Again, it's not a problem, but I can't help but imagine you're missing out on viewers by putting what seems like it'll be a decently long LP in an old and dying thread like this one. I wouldn't want to see you in a situation where your update posts make up the last 5 posts in this thread in a row because very few people are watching and commenting. I'd almost suggest that you take this LP and make your own thread for it simply so that it doesn't get lost in here and could potentially reach more viewers. You'd be able to link it in the New LPs thread too.

If you do a new thread though, I'd suggest going back and re-editing the videos to remove the intros and apply some of the suggestions above just because while this thread is a great place for first time LPs, the rest of the subforum might be a little more judgmental of quality than I am. It might be a bit of a hard sell for viewers since a VLP of a Pokemon game sounds like a total turn-off seeing as most Pokemon LPs are screenshot based for the sake of time and avoiding showing grind. You'll really have to edit the videos heavily to avoid getting bogged down in the details and keep thread viewers watching. Thankfully, an LP of what essentially amounts to Pokemon Black: Chaos Edition does have a selling point to it, so you may be able to pull in viewers with that alone.

That said, if you would rather keep the videos in this thread only because it's a more casual affair in here, that's perfectly fine with me. I won't close the thread on you and who knows, maybe someone else will have some kind of romhack content they want to put in here while it remains open. I hope you guys keep going because this has potential. Just see what you can do in the future to improve the video quality with some of the suggestions I had.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

If you really want to move this out of the thread and into your own, I wouldn't mind you posting the link to it in here so that anyone who started watching, myself included, can follow it to its new thread. Again though, you're not unwelcome to continue posting the LP in here!

As for ending episodes, sometimes I find the best way to end is to just find when there's a natural break in the conversation, or a moment between a topic shift and then just fade out to black. Simple, clean and not sudden.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Return of Mido

Funny you all should mention that... because Artix and I streamed it for 3 1/2 hours yesterday.

Overall impressions, iiiiiiit's early in development. We ended up with a pretty bad seed. It needs more safeguards in place to prevent the Super Metroid portion from being a hunt for the Morph Ball. If you can't spare 3 1/2 hours to watch it, I'll basically save you some time by saying it takes us about 2 1/2 hours of playing LttP almost exclusively to find the Morph Ball, and then the last hour is my marathoning around Zebes accomplishing all me objectives without having to return to LttP because I'd already found all my powerful weapons and movement tech for SM while trying to find Morph Ball.

As things stand now, there isn't enough interactivity between the games. But this is something the developers hope to address once they're finished making sure the whole thing is stable and mostly bug-free. Adding in existing LttP variations is a big priority, like Keysanity, as well as ideas to make keys and Big Keys work and unlock doors in Super Metroid.

We're pretty down on the idea by the end but personally I see promise as it gets better. Definitely something I want to revisit again in a little while.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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I assume it's because the whole thing is at a barely functional public state right now. No matter what complaints I might have about it right now I can't help but be INCREDIBLY IMPRESSED that this is even possible!

Future plans definitely include trying to safeguard stuff better. I've been hanging out in their discord and giving some feedback and suggestions so I've also been seeing a few plans for later releases.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Gridlocked posted:

So I watched my way through all of FPZ's Keysanity LP and enjoyed the poo poo out of it.

Except for the part where they talked about Crow having many regrets about modding LP.

How come no one brought up the time where Crow literally cheated at Let's Play Paper Scissors Rock because he got mad at people ignoring his posts? And then he was declared the official loser of the entire LP by trying to corrupt the Prisoners Dilemma that was the tie breaker.

Paging nine-gear crow to defend himself in a court of law.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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Peanut Butler posted:

you're thinking too small imo



This was me after finishing Staff Invasion.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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I'm just bumping this thread because I still haven't gotten my VLDC9 and Keysanity LPs ready for archival and don't want this thread to get auto-archived just yet. I don't intend for anyone to make new content right now but maybe we'll make a Romhackeria 2 thread some time in the future.

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FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

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I just went back and watched my videos.

You're right, there is.

:negative:

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