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A i say. A. so, we've got basically yugoslavia and the mafia part of italy to support us, while the south has their own superior resources and probably the support of the tex-mex fascists. i guess we'll get a few abraham lincoln brigade type assists from the democracies? i don't like those odds, but i don't like a boot stamping on a human face forever either edit: in the medium/long run i dont know if we're really getting an option that doesn't involve forever-stamping, now that i think about it, but still A. A has a longer stamp return period great writing and modding, by the way oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Nov 27, 2018 |
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Nov 27, 2018 22:02
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actually we kinda do need to take orders from belgrade sorry
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Nov 28, 2018 00:12
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if the south wins, maybe instead of going fascist we could go facist. discrimination based on facial appearance is rough but it might be an improvement
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Nov 30, 2018 06:10
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i was kinda hoping belgrade would be powerful... well, maybe that'll make liberal democracies less scared of letting their leftist citizens support us! we're hosed, it's cool
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Dec 2, 2018 02:28
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also, how did gharbia or whatever we're calling south america do? weren't they a fun high-immigration liberal democracy last we heard? maybe we can get some ibrahim... lincoln brigades from them. and how's that working out around the panama area with japan and ibriz on their front door? finally, how's that random celtic-or-whoever country in patagonia doing, are they still sticking around? edit: looking at the map at the end of the last update i realize i forgot about the buffer countries in the NW of south america. wonder how they're gonna do in the 20th century as for exile, i think i'd disappear to franglish las vegas. i think the fastest connection to the rule of franglish law would be a straight shot 500 miles north, right across the great basin, to a place like twin falls on the snake river. you've got waono (they're still around) and ibriz on both sides. maybe it's a little like the tres fronteras area between paraguay, brazil, and argentina edit 2: actually ibriz is fascist so that wouldn't be a good idea after all. i'm just making fun of the mapgame logic that results in the dual monarchy colonizing right from idaho to nevada, not to mention what they're doing in australia. who runs hawaii? that might be nice. what's the old moroccan dominion in south africa like, is it awful like morocco things usually are? but really rio is the place to go oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Dec 2, 2018 |
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Dec 2, 2018 22:00
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hoooly gently caress we Holodomored portugal is it bad that i'm laughing? yeah. yeah, it is. still better than having gone for the fascists. actually, with the royalists having toppled the fascists, i wonder where that leaves the ideologically fascist members of society? and the living SGAers? lord this place is a mess anyway this is some brutal, believable poo poo. can't wait for the curtain to get dropped on the rest of the world so we can see how the revolution's gonna go oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Dec 7, 2018 |
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Dec 7, 2018 02:03
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i'm assuming palermo and titoslavia will end up fighting with us, that could at least make the russians walk a long way before they can get around to murdering us and yeah the alternating allies along an arc from senegal to siberia (and on to, uh, shikoku if japan joins with us) are pretty funny, how organic was that development? also, how close has a real life war come to that, with multiple multiple-front wars going on simultaneously? can anybody think of anything along those lines? edit: the alternating arc could go even farther if the khedivate declared war against morocco and morocco's colonies in south africa had a border with the khedivate. then we could have it arcing across three continents and most of the world oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Dec 7, 2018 |
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Dec 7, 2018 06:21
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i can't remember really, but i thought there was anti-northern minority sentiment behind the fascists and talk of pure-blooded andalusians deserving stuff. either way, considering how quickly we got to famines and public executions taking the red pill, i doubt things were going to end well for the social undesirables if we'd picked the guys with the literal swastika on the flag instead
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Dec 7, 2018 07:19
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so who are the kulaks in this scenario and how are they going to die edit: its me
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Dec 7, 2018 19:08
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germany got the poo poo kicked out of it in this timeline too. at least south germany did. britain has gotten worked over many times, france a bit less so i suppose. in europe france or actually russia are probably the spots you'd wanna be? probably most of the people who get to decide where they live are in gharbia, in rio or some place like it. the not-america on the eastern seaboard is probably doing okay for itself so maybe the ivy league is prospering in this timeline meanwhile i guess waono keeps waonoing
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Dec 9, 2018 18:42
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Snipee posted:I really want a communist India now. the Communist Party of India (Marxist) controls Kerala, which i think is considered pretty well governed, and also led a coalition governing west bengal from 1977 to 2011 - i think west bengal is considered to be a shambolic fuckup wrt governance but im very ignorant also just bc i think it's mildly funny here's a very leftist quote about a brief 17-party alliance they put together for a while this decade in west bengal: quote:In October 2014 a broader platform of cooperation between West Bengal left parties emerged, encompassing the ten Left Front parties (CPI(M), CPI, AIFB, RSP, DSP, RCPI, MFB, BBC, Workers Party of India, Bolshevik Party of India) as well as the Socialist Unity Centre of India (Communist), the Communist Party of India (Marxist-Leninist) Liberation, the Provisional Central Committee, Communist Party of India (Marxist-Leninist), the Party of Democratic Socialism, the Communist Party of Bharat and the CRLI.[75][76][77][78][79][80] anyway, kerala has a decent reputation i think??, so if you want a communist india now get your rear end to Thiruvananthapuram  that doesn't look awful or go hang out in the jungle with the naxalites idk if anybody wants to educate me about kerala and the various communist parties of india please feel free
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Dec 11, 2018 06:26
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really interesting random discussion, thanks for the knowledgeposts. the part about west bengal's communist party leadership losing touch with its ostensible constituency was interesting also its really cool that someone who's actually been to kerala is here also, i didnt mean to imply the whole place is a beach resort and in fact for all i know that screenshot is basically a cancun type place that's really more colonialist than anything else!! but it does look nice, doesn't it? and i was joking about hanging with naxalites but i bet there are revolutionary maoists reading this who shook their heads sadly when they read that in the end, the apparent fact that an ostensibly communist party has been successfully governing 33 million people (yeah there's 33 million loving people in kerala, 91 million in west bengal fwiw) out there in reality, even if they're still third world and they aren't fully automated luxury gay space meme and im sure theres plenty of compromises and dirty politics and poo poo, is kind of  to me. still dunno any details tho, obviously
oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Dec 11, 2018 |
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Dec 11, 2018 20:23
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i think citations are Good i wil read those ones for example
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Dec 14, 2018 01:46
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fish and chips and dip posted:Yes, and that turned just swell lol. that vote was almost literally 'would you guys rather be Hitler or Stalin' and, well, Stalin won so yay
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Dec 16, 2018 00:53
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so close to 8 figures!! this world would've deserved that (i know the pops in this game aren't accurate representations of population tho)
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Dec 16, 2018 01:40
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garrotting was a good pull because it's historical and realistic but didn't happen to make the kind of showing in politics that gets it a fan club. it would've been less in-your-face if it was 'just' the guillotine i think, we've got cute little emoticons and poo poo for that please nobody make a cute garrotting emoticon anyway we weren't allowed to have anyone, including the socialists, be a 'the obvious optimal choice' party at any stage. everybody had huge weak points. that meant every time we made a choice we also made a mess. hence the this. i think it ends up being fairly history-like. it has historicity. it's historicic? i get the impression it was the silly lovely in-game problem of not being able to make reforms when your country is stable or whatever that actually took us off the pattern we might have expected of 'vote for trains and imperialism, get some literacy along the way'. i think maybe modding in reforms would've been more 'historicic' than letting the country fall 100 years behind because it was never allowed to enact trinket health care or w/e. however, i don't know the game oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Dec 16, 2018 |
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Dec 16, 2018 18:46
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lebanese pizza seemed to sell well in melbourne australia when i was there so idk edit: this world is pretty loving harsh but/and it's had a lot more inter-cultural interaction between muslims and christians than our world did, right through the enlightenment evidently being a bi-faith event (e.g. tirruni). i bet the cuisine is loving delicious and everybody takes it for granted edit: let them eat falafel? i guess muslim people have cakes too so this one doesn't need changing oops oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Dec 16, 2018 |
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Dec 16, 2018 23:10
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ok so im always too flippant about the way i refer to cultures, i didnt mean for that one edit to build into 'i guess the muslims had cakes too' - thats lovely and just a weird thing to say in the first place, sorry about that there and in iraq there is documentation of the soils turning white from excessive salinity going back to the Sumerian epics (a civilization likely destroyed by salinity) this seems to be a great article about egypt and mesopotamia, including this pithy summary: "Mesopotamia has had times of successful irrigation, and times of silt and salinity crises: the latter around 2000 BC, 1100 BC, and after 1200 AD", and ending with the Abbasids: quote:After the wave of Moslem expansion broke over Mesopotamia, the Abassid Caliphate was based on Baghdad from 762 AD until its demise in 1258. Existing irrigation schemes were renovated and greatly extended in very large projects. Abassid engineers drew water from the Euphrates at five separate points, and led it in parallel canals across the plains, watering a huge area south of Baghdad. This system provided the basis for the enormously rich culture of Baghdad, which is still remembered in legend (Scheherezade, the Caliph of Baghdad, and the Arabian Nights) as well as history. But it required a lot of physical maintenance, and there was a lot of salinization in the south. As central government began to fail in the 12th century (mostly from extravagant overspending), the canals became silt-choked, the irrigation system deteriorated, and the lands became more salinized. The deathblow to the system was natural: massive floods about 1200 AD shifted the courses of both the Tigris and the Euphrates, cutting off most of the water supply to the Nahrwan Canal and wrecking the whole system. The Abbasids were too weak (or bankrupt) by now to institute repairs, and the agricultural system collapsed. By the time the Mongols under Hulagu devastated Iraq and Baghdad in 1258 AD, they were finishing off a society that was already a wasteland. Iraq has remained a desert for more than 600 years. it's from a university with a good reputation in water stuff, no idea if the history sucked when the page was last updated in 1999 or if it sucks now. the fact that it's by a geology 115 teacher is maybe a cause for concern? maybe none of the relevant faculty at the university have ever heard of this page, but also it's a geology 115 class that's talking about salinization and agriculture so it's a pretty aggy geology class. idk anyway it seems like iraq has been prosperous when it's had a strong state able to dredge poo poo and arrange for that very interesting euphrates-as-in, tigris-as-out system that minimized salinization. right now a lot of different sources give 20-30% numbers for the fraction of Iraq's acreage abandoned due to salinization. however many emphasized that the worst land only came into production during the sanctions and was abandoned when they could buy food again edit: also the modern euphrates is dammed a lot so iraq gets less volume than in ancient times, which leads to higher salinity in the supply as well as the soil. one thing seemed to indicate that farmers who were used to using return flows from some fields to irrigate others (likely a necessary part of the ancient irrigation system described above) were finding that even when the input water was okay, the return flows were too saline so there's a threshold where you lose your return flow flexibility, which probably destroys one segment of your large-scale water delivery system but i'm just guessing my rear end off now, and then there's another threshold where you can't irrigate the fields right next to the canals anyway edit: btw half of the american sources i googled up draw direct, explicit connections between the San Joaquin Valley and Mesopotamia oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Dec 18, 2018 |
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Dec 18, 2018 01:04
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is that lake volta in ghana in that last screenshot? that didn't exist historically until the river was dammed in the 60s i think there are other manmade lakes scattered around this and the other paradox maps (i forget what the sperg emoticon is, but yeah)
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Dec 19, 2018 02:32
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very early on, the revolutionary government rounded up food from the areas under their control and hoarded it all in santander getting the army fed while leaving everyone else to starve. these were some of the ancestral hotbeds of this whole socialist movement afaik, so they weren't punishing dissidents, they were just killing civilians by systematically robbing them of food. that's kinda war crimey and it sorta set the tone for me that was when i think i made the first holodomor reference in this thread. it was a joke, im not gonna make any attempt to defend the comparison cuz gently caress it, dont feel like reading the holodomor wiki rn edit: i think the affected regions would've been roughly northern portugal, galicia, and leon - all minority-heavy areas, which is probably why they were in the revolutionary heartland and eligible to get starved in the first place oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Dec 19, 2018 |
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Dec 19, 2018 23:10
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the benin team would be rad
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Dec 21, 2018 02:37
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loving love Fiona Apple posted:The one centered around Qadis obviously. qadis will be the one that's literally hitler literally
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Dec 22, 2018 03:39
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at least we dragged the tex-mex fascists WAY down with us they're the only ones who deserve to be our allies
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Dec 23, 2018 19:14
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I forget the ancient history of this lp, did we start before 1066? was there a Norman invasion? because if the cross channel connection got kept up, I bet the two cultures are much more similar here than irl so it might not be worth defining a difference otoh there was that relatively long lived separatist thing in York back when the Celts could win wars sometimes, and the fake USA is presumably keeping English culture alive but maybe has diverged? either way, I assume you're keeping Axis around for when some fascists ally but I could imagine a Mussolini figure saying something like 'the French Channel is the axis upon which the world turns' or whatever. hence these suggestions: Channel Axis, Axis of the Channel also you should put in some events to build a Chunnel way early, I bet that'd be an attractive idea to fascists holding both sides
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Dec 31, 2018 22:57
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I'd say they might start with the Charlemagne borders, add everything the French north of the Channel have been up to including lots of North America, and then add some more too they'll be coming for catalunya, our first treaty violation needs to be rebuilding the Pyrenees fortresses
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Jan 1, 2019 19:10
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Ikasuhito posted:"When you think about it, New England is really a nation of runaway French subjects!" i imagine the textbook definition of 'English' would be 'French people who hadn't/haven't realized it yet' is south america/gharbia still a reasonably liberal monarchical triumvirate? some rio-type place might still be the spot to go - just avoid those peripheral zones where they're still bullying all their neighbors one of whom is now the frangleterre fascists, actually. maybe south america's quiet period will end in the mid-20th century
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Jan 1, 2019 20:53
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i went to wiki for examples and gently caress it, why pretend i'm smarter than my sourcequote:Enclaves within enclaves so there's some examples of double-enclaves. this is topical
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Jan 7, 2019 00:15
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rio or some other beautiful gharbian location and, like, Sochi or whatever nice places the Russians control really seem like the places to be. Russia is the major power that had the least evil evolution I think also if there's one good thing we did it was choosing the one time we hosed Morocco up to be when the future of the slave trade was in the balance. obviously slavery continued after said event irl so it'll be a mixed bag, but all our other bags are full of garrotted heads e: I forgot that would be a positive for this thread so our bags are also full of stunted children who died from malnutrition
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Jan 8, 2019 01:38
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I feel like I remember York being the intermittent renascence of an independent old english nation when the Celtics were on the top of their historical rollercoaster and found themselves picking up an English puppet. I'd guess that the London vs north England rivalry irl would be way more bitter in this and might form the basis for dare I say it an English civil war it's cool that Norway won 1066 but it makes this more complicated. I forget how long they lasted. in theory the old Danelaw might have a slightly more Nordic heritage here? and how does our French Hitler describe the Germanic races in his ranting? I wonder if he might hate Germany and norn England equally
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Jan 17, 2019 02:56
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Hashim posted:Sure, I'll be adding everyone who wants in, just let me know what you wanna be called. i haven't joined in yet i dont think, but oyster toad fish in google translate turns into 'asmak almahari (أسماك المحار) - however you like to transliterate our fake Arabic 'names', Asmak Al-Mahari, whatever, might work. i wonder if the initial apostrophe would work in-game? no idea what arabic people would actually call Opsanus tau, which is actually an oyster toadfish to be specific, but no point in worrying about it oh yeah, i've been saying that Berber Rio de Janeiro would be the place to go, and now they're gearing up for some real poo poo so could you put me in Gharbia in a research position - perhaps one involving recently discovered uses for uranium (idk if you want to give away your approach to that aspect of the game, but i bet they'll be contenders in that race) - or if that's not possible, a general? also, how does HOI simulate chemical warfare? it wasn't a big feature of wwii but reading about the sino-japanese conflict it seems like the japanese busted them out from time to time, and monsieur adolphe hitlere in paris may not have gotten gassed in person last war oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Feb 7, 2019 |
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Feb 7, 2019 00:44
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Fizzil posted:I can help with arabic names, though if things exist in arabic for it, toadfish doesnt atm but google translate is pretty decent but i can correct it since it gave you the plural of the word. it should be سمك المحار (samak al mahar) for oyster toadfish. holy poo poo thanks! i really value getting things right as long as it costs me zero (0) effort so i really appreciate this. samak al mahar. awesome i guess the resplendent toadfish doesn't inhabit arabic-speaking parts of the world. your loss really https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmEPGnsJngI edit: here's some dude actually catching, cleaning, and eating me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vygXrrAAIH4 oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Feb 7, 2019 |
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Feb 7, 2019 07:43
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this world is no paradise, and the slave trade happened, but benin has been ahistorically well integrated into the euro-mediterranean world in this timeline so maybe they wouldn't be viewed as an inferior other quite as much as africans have been viewed in real life if benin went fascist, white fascists might find them to be perfectly respectable allies with their own part in european-mediterranean history and culture
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Feb 7, 2019 22:03
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one of the only things about this world is how the muslim and christian parts seemingly stayed much more connected than irl, to the point where the Enlightenment seemed to be a bi-faith endeavor. as have been all the major ideological developments since, i think there's also been a ton of cross-faith alliances in wars, which did happen in the early modern era but i don't think to this degree
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Feb 7, 2019 22:40
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in real life history, the best uranium available in the world in 1939 was apparently from the katanga region of the congo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkolobwe  apparently the mine had incredibly high purity uranium ore: quote:Our best source, the Shinkolobwe mine, represented a freak occurrence in nature. It contained a tremendously rich lode of uranium pitchblende. Nothing like it has ever again been found. The ore already in the United States [shipped from Shinkolobwe] contained 65 percent U3O8, while the pitchblende aboveground in the Congo amounted to a thousand tons of 65 percent ore, and the waste piles of ore contained two thousand tons of 20 percent U3O8. To illustrate the uniqueness of Sengier's stockpile, after the war the MED and the AEC considered ore containing three-tenths of 1 percent as a good find. sengier was the belgian in charge of this poo poo, which is creepy, but what's cool is that when the manhattan project got around to asking him if he knew where any uranium was he was like 'i brought 1000 tons here two years ago, it's been sitting in a warehouse in staten island, what took you so long to find me' anyway, the khedive probably has shinkolobwe, so that's good
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Feb 8, 2019 05:04
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i'm not sure how the ideologies and borders line up but one thing for Central Asia might be a kind of belated Great Game where Russia tries to puppet/ally with Afghanistan et al. in order to invade Moroccan India. usually it seems like paradox games underestimate logistical difficulties, so this might be more realistic than it really was in real life! edit: oh poo poo, i also forgot that the sindh is controlled by russia already! they can just sail straight from odessa to karachi. game on, motherfuckers   the ideology map seems to indicate that khwarezm would be happy to help russia, even though maybe they don' t need it. in addition to india, russia could use khwarezm to meddle in Central Asia on the one hand and the Middle East on the other  and just so it's here, the political map. the comrades in provencal africa are in trouble i think editedit: upon overly close inspection, it looks like russia does own odessa, but i think the border with the balkan federation is on the dniester, only 50km sw of odessa. i bet they have an arrangement to work through sevastopol, though it seems like russia does not control the dardanelles. moreover, the european side is held by communists and the asian side is held by fascists! what the hell is gonna happen there? honestly i feel like if russia could take out constantinople it probably would've grabbed both sides of the sea of marmara, but right now the map says commies and fascists will be shooting at each other across the dardanelles while also shooting any russian ships that try to go through maybe greece and the balkan federation could both decide whether or not they want to approach russia with a deal? if i was either of them, i'd start with "we'll give you our side of the dardanelles, and after we win you get their side and we get [the rest of greece is an easier target, and russia probably fears frangleterre more than it fears any of the communist countries, so hopefully that means we can get a ww2-style liberal democracy/communism alliance going. if we don't gently caress it up, though, the balkan federation wlil oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Feb 9, 2019 |
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Feb 8, 2019 23:47
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franglaterre nevada is silly because they got it due to border contiguity from the north (iirc), which just doesn't make logistical sense imo. so there's a game engine artifact built into this, but what are you gonna do at this point in real history California was one of the leading oil producers in the world, SF and LA had aqueducts to Yosemite and the Owens Valley, the Okies were harvesting so many crops the government had to burn them in the middle of the great depression (see grapes of wrath), and a fuckload of hydropower is gonna show up in cascadia soon. but maybe the region just hasn't had the labor and capital invested in it that it had irl? also, has economical air conditioning been invented yet? that could matter for Las Vegas and other places like Florida
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Feb 11, 2019 05:47
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vyelkin posted:Basically this world's only hope is for social-democratic Russia to conquer everybody. It seems like one of the only decent places to live at the end of Vic2. i love the heel turn in this universe. i'd love to read the political science theses that come out of this world; i guess you need orthodox traditionalist serfdom to get to Full Liberalism
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Feb 16, 2019 07:21
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I hope the gharbian Oppenheimer I think I named after myself wins the I originally posted the thing about Shinkolobwe and how it was basically an accident of imperialism that got all that uranium to the USA; apparently that was incredibly pure ore but I dunno what else is out there oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 00:16
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will the gharbians have enough force to decide this? i hope the triggers in the ibriz civil war don't get delayed by things bogging down. i want my character to develop the bomb! maybe i should've asked for him to be a beninese nuclear researcher... anyway i'm glad our leader had the flexibility to ally with belgrade, and i'm glad we have a three-way patchwork around the globe so almost everybody is fighting a two-front war and with more countries to come, and i can't wait to see the game engine cope with all that oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Apr 8, 2019 |
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Apr 8, 2019 07:33
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i guess we don't get to find out how all the different countries' atomic projects are going until after the war, eh? i put a namesake in as a berber rio de janeiro einstein, and i suppose we won't get to find out how he's doing for a while
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May 24, 2019 05:26
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