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Rakosi posted:"I would like you to rule on this matter please sir" Hilarious given that Farage was asked to be more respectful and polite during that very rant, but carried on being rude and abrasive. Also, please stop catheter chat. 
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Feb 1, 2017 19:27
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TinTower posted:Only one Tory rebel: Ken Clarke. Did the Tories use a whip?
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Feb 1, 2017 22:35
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^^ Seriously, gently caress Dyce traffic jams too.Wheat Loaf posted:I don't know. If you'd told people 20 years ago that a) Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness would become legitimately best mates; Slightly incomplete anecdote, but my Dad was on a few flights with Ian Paisley and <insert prominent republican> 20 years or so ago when they shared a commute. Apparently they were laughing and joking on the plane up until the point they landed, when they both departed the plane separately and stony faced as if they wouldn't spit on each other. I'll see if I can find out who the Republican was. namesake posted:Deare Lord Ashlington, Loved this! Pissflaps posted:Built up a persuasive case against Brexit using all the evidence and events since - focussing most recently on the need for stability in the face of an increasingly alarming situation in America - then held a three line whip against tonight's bill, bringing rebel Tories on-side to defeat it. Given only 1 Tory apparently cares enough about Europe to rebel, who are the hordes of defectors you are expecting? It was widely reported in the poltiical press that May squashed any potential Tory rebellion by committing to produce a white paper, thereby eliminating the possibility of them joining with Labour. There would be absolutely no difference in parliamentary outcome if Corbyn had whipped to oppose article 50. Please describe how this brake of yours would function to block a majority government, with 1 rebelling MP, from passing its legislation? I'd much prefer every MP in that house to vote to block Brexit, but I think you're overstating the case. Prince John fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Feb 2, 2017 |
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Feb 2, 2017 00:22
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LemonDrizzle posted:Paul Nuttall may be going to pokey: Sadly I predict the outcome of an investigation will be a disapproving tut.
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Feb 2, 2017 02:01
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quote:And one MP who has been at the centre of this grouping in recent months told me that the prospect of appearing on the front of a newspaper labelled “an enemy of the people” was a big disincentive to vote for an amendment on anything. This was concerning.
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Feb 2, 2017 12:03
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Skinty McEdger posted:A researcher I know said this isn't an uncommon sentiment at the commons at the moment. The way she put it was that you vote, get labeled by Farage and the Mail as an enemy of the people, and then the next time you're mentioned by either it's to say that no one could have forseen the attack upon you on the streets and they certainly had nothing to do with it. The percentage of MPs reporting actual violence or threats is surprisingly high. There was a BBC article a few weeks back that I can't find, which had summaries of the problem and various accounts. We should probably be more tolerant as a thread of what appear to be overreactions about their personal safety in isolation, but might be part of a wider pattern. Gonzo McFee posted:I'd say Britain was devolving into fascism but tbh we're just being less covert than usual. Heh, I was wondering!
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Feb 2, 2017 12:48
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Pissflaps posted:That's interesting I always assumed they'd be for it tbh. I think they know it would be a bit of an economic millstone around their necks.
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Feb 2, 2017 13:30
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Sion posted:Liberal Democrat MPs who did not vote #LibDemFightBack
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Feb 2, 2017 14:27
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Gonzo McFee posted:Or it could have been some daft racist given the other two people she was supposedly seen with. Presumably a hostile source at least, as he's referring to Emily Thornberry as Lady Nugee. jBrereton posted:Clive Lewis is the last best hope for the party as has been properly established by two Guardian articles. Supposedly the anointed successor is Rebecca Long-Bailey. I base that on more random internet articles. In other news, Corbs is getting it in the neck for apparently suggesting people choose their sexual orientation, while speaking at an LGBT event of all places. Prince John fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Feb 2, 2017 |
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Feb 2, 2017 19:51
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I don't particularly want to start a well-trodden Oxbridge Access debate, but it's nice to see that Cambridge has the 9th most privately educated intake, as higher proportions of state school pupils succeed at gaining entrance - up 8 percent in 10 years. Plenty of ground still to cover, but moving in the right direction. Also, looks like there's been a Southern Rail deal struck, but no details available yet. Edit: ^^ Pretty irritating to hear Tory MPs criticise the 'regressive attitude'. Prince John fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Feb 2, 2017 |
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Feb 2, 2017 20:54
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Looks like the US is going to take a giant leap backwards on religion in politics and another one on various LGBT-related issues:quote:US President Donald Trump has announced he will "get rid of and totally destroy" a 60-year-old rule that blocks tax-exempt religious groups from endorsing or opposing political candidates. And also: quote:The declaration came as an apparent leaked draft of a new executive order set out how specific religious beliefs—reflecting conservative Christian social tenets—could become enshrined as executive policy. And he's now apparently a devout Christian: quote:Last September he tried to woo evangelical voters with a promise that the US' "Christian heritage will be cherished, protected, defended like you have never seen before". His repeal of the amendment would "give our churches their voice back", he said. The sheer rate of executive orders is pretty impressive, whatever you might think of the contents. If only politicians who weren't orange tangarines could deliver so many election promises so quickly.
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Feb 2, 2017 23:01
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El Grillo posted:Can't find anything on this: the travel ban on Israeli citizens by Arab nations, is this something that has been in place effectively from Israel's inception? Or did these bans come in at some point in response to the refusal to acknowledge Palestine etc.? Just interested because of the Villiers/May commons thing about it. Just in case it helps with context, a coalition of these Arab states declared war on Israel the day after it made its independence declaration, so relations were definitely not normalised in any way at inception. Of course there's lots of bad blood from the period before independence that influenced these later events.
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Feb 3, 2017 12:56
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Private Speech posted:Interestingly half of UKIP thinks that May is going badly about implementing Brexit, which is significantly more than tories (~14%) Maybe timing do you think? Trigger Article 50 the day after the referendum and put tanks at the channel tunnel the following day.
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Feb 3, 2017 17:02
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Here's Clive Lewis' contituency speech about Brexit from this evening if anyone's interested: https://www.facebook.com/labourclivelewis/videos/vb.191335640943251/1266862706723867/?type=2&theater One thing he did say, that contradicts what has been posted here a couple of times, is that Labour's position on the post-amendment vote has not been decided yet, i.e. it is not true that Labour have already decided to use the whip for that vote. Oh, and he also confirmed that there had been much agonising about the position taken on article 50, and ultimately it was seen as the only way to defend the constituencies where Labour are 'hanging on by their fingernails' to UKIP. Prince John fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 00:05
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Pissflaps posted:I thought UKIP weren't supposed to be a threat to Labour? Given Clive said the argument was made to him that breaking the whip would be letting Paul Nuttall in to Westminster, I'd say that's not a view shared at the top of the Labour party. serious gaylord posted:Question for the gallery, if you know a case number of a court case that's being heard and the name of the defendant, is there any way to find out the charges? No expert, but I can tell you that my local magistrates' court only published the cases in paper form on a noticeboard the day before.
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Feb 4, 2017 00:22
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jBrereton posted:UKIP have the leader of Labour and one of the crucial shadow cabinet ministers Diane Abbott (who also totally loving bottled the Leave vote) on tape saying that immigration is totally sustainable. Some fuckin nobody councillor they bussed in for Newcastle-under-Lyme who was very against Brexit on twitter is not going to make the people who voted Leave there sympathetic to the Labour cause, and nor should the election of any 1 specific MP jeopardise the future of the Labour movement in all the places the people didn't vote for Brexit for gently caress's sakes. The bolded bit makes it sound like you're saying Labour are choosing a minority over a majority, but 75% of their constituencies voted to Leave. An overwhelming majority of Labour MPs have a constituency that wants some kind of Brexit. Their members hold different views on Europe on average, but they're not going to run off and vote UKIP at the next election. I can understand why the party is making GBS threads themselves about UKIP. I agree with you that it probably won't be an effective strategy, but I doubt turning 75% of your constituencies against you is a better one. They're between a total rock and a hard place.
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Feb 4, 2017 00:47
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^^ Thanks for sharing.  A nationwide block has come into force on Trump's travel ban, so if you were previously booted out with a valid visa you can now get on a plane again. Unless the government obtains an emergency stay before you land, in which case you'll be turned away again. What a loving shitshow.
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Feb 4, 2017 10:59
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Cerv posted:Not that many. Just the SNP and Dennis Skinner voted no wasn't it? Interesting that when it came up for a vote in 2011, Skinner, Corbyn and McDonnell all broke the Labour whip to vote in favour of an EU referendum, although Cameron succeeded stopping it on that particular instance. A significant number of Labour and Tory MPs rebelled at that vote - interesting how different the votes were for the later one... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8847123/EU-referendum-how-the-MPs-voted.html
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Feb 5, 2017 15:15
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The Beeb have an interesting breakdown of EU referendum voting trends. They've been piecing things together with lots of FoI requests - the main trends identified before concerning education and age are replicated here, but they've also managed to obtain a much more granular picture than that available previously, even down to the individual ballot box in some places. Worth a read if you have a few minutes. I also found it interesting that the education correlation with a remain vote was also present for levels of education below that of a degree, so it's not simply about campus contact with ~~foreigns~~.
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Feb 6, 2017 17:00
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Pissflaps posted:Cool that this thread is focussing on anime and video games when the Speaker has literally just denounced Trump in the House of Commons. Here is some more detail for everyone else: quote:"An address by a foreign leader to both houses is not an automatic right. It is an earned honour. There are many precedents for state visits to our country that do not include an address to both houses. In relation to Westminster Hall, there are three key-holders: the Speaker of the Commons, the Speaker of the Lords and the Lord Great Chamberlain. Ordinarily we are able to work by consensus and the hall would be used for a purpose such as an address by agreement of the three key holders. Before the imposition of the migrant ban, I would myself have been strongly opposed to an address by president in trump in Westminster Hall. After the imposition of the migrant ban I am even more strongly opposed to an address by President Trump in Westminster Hall. So far as the royal gallery is concerned... I do not perhaps have as strong a say in that matter...although customarily an invitation to a visiting leader to issue an address there would be issued in the names of the two speakers. I would not wish to issue an invitation to President Trump to speak in the royal gallery. We value our relationship with the united states. If a state visit takes place, that is way beyond and above the pay grade of the Speaker. However, as far as this place is concerned, I feel very strongly that our opposition to racism and sexism and our support for equality before the law and an independent judiciary are hugely important considerations in the House of Commons." Hadn't realised he had that kind of authority, and pretty decent of him to put his neck out like that - not sure if it's too political for the office of speaker? Some more info on the visit: quote:Speaker Bercow can't block President Trump from addressing both Houses of Parliament in the Royal Gallery, since invitations for speakers in that room are issued by the Lord Great Chamberlain. Looks like he may have stopped Trump from speaking in parliament, which isn't too shabby. Here's the latter part of his response should anyone want to watch the video. Hilarious to see the Tory side of the house sat there stony-faced. Edit: Updated with full quote from Bercow. Prince John fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 18:51
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^^ Interesting take on things. Alternative history is fun. namesake posted:And yet the serious borders we erect around Fortress Europe show that this not some principled position offered for making peoples lives better, it's a way of making Europe a political and economic force of capitalism relevant in the age of superpowers. It's about as leftwing as the Scottish-English border. It is a principled position for making the lives of European people better though (and I think this distinguishes it from the English/Scottish border - European politicians really care about this freedom). If you think of it as being a matter of survival and relevance in the age of economic superpowers as you suggest, is it better to have a bastion of relatively liberal economic and political freedoms, even if it excludes the rest of the world, if the alternative is to have a fragmanted and declining Europe, unable to compete in the world, going hard for nationalism as things get shittier? It is FYGM to an extent, but I don't know whether dismantling Fortress Europe would actually be a net improvement to the world, if it resulted in the US and China moving into the gap. The EU refugee policy may be pretty bad, but they still took over 1 million refugees in 2015, compared to 85k in the US for 2016 (presumably dwindling to nothing post-Trump) and China takes closer to 0. Economically, the EU is many times less protectionist than the US and, to a lesser extent, China. There was a handy graph posted in here a while back illustrating this, but I can't find it sadly - it showed at least an order of magnitude in difference between the value of protectionist policies, and the EU was the least protectionist of all blocs shown by a country mile. The slow and measured expansion of EU benefits to a wider and wider number of countries would address the FYGM and be more in tune with acting like a 'global citizen', but that runs into its own realpolitik problems of course. Prince John fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Feb 7, 2017 |
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Feb 7, 2017 01:47
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Heh, my approval of John Bercow has somewhat waned after seeing a list of other people he's allowed to speak in parliament. Trump may be a vacuous, bigoted, mysoginist, but hasn't (yet?) approached anything like the scale of opression that the day-to-day operation of the Chinese state involves. Jippa posted:It's amazing how cameron has managed to slip away from all this with all the craziness that keeps coming every day. History will remember him though. I think the proper word is 'slither'. I also share your amazement at the lack of outcry.
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Feb 7, 2017 10:41
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Pissflaps posted:The first concession is in I don't think so. She promised to bring the final Brexit deal to a vote in parliament, but the vision she had for this was a fait accompli after ratification by the European parliament, where there was no opportunity for meaningful change. The concession here is that parliament now has the authority to agree or reject her negotiated position before it gets voted on by Europe, which means changes to her negotiated position can still be demanded by parliament. The timing is still going to restrict the scope of the changes, but it's a significant concession.
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Feb 7, 2017 21:35
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Zephro posted:I have some sympathy for this view but to be consistent we should also exclude all farmland, because that's very much not natural. Farms are food factories. There's nothing natural about them and they are bad for biodiversity. At least our farmers still keep hedges. I wonder if that's going to be an unhappy consequence of Brexit - didn't the EU incentivise farmers to keep land fallow and various other measures to protect biodiversity? Re nimbyism, flooding is a huge problem for new builds, as are unscrupulous developers. I haven't lived in *that* many places, and I can think of three modern developments that have either been torn down or had huge amounts of remedial work due to bodging the conditions for building. I agree that it's a false dichotomy between housing people and building on the green belt, but I think much of the opposition would disappear if houses were built sympathetically to the existing ones. It's perfectly possible to have either flatpack houses that look acceptable in a rural setting:   Or modern houses that meet all the energy standards but still look like old cottages:  A picture postcard village near where I grew up had a bunch of prominent new houses, but because they were painted the same, and had the same character as those around them, there was surprise, acceptance and general nodding of heads about how it was a good thing.
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Feb 8, 2017 11:53
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Pissflaps posted:Those houses don't look like affordable houses. Perhaps not, but they could either be made smaller, or mass produced to bring the unit cost down if there was a national building program. Even if these houses may not meet the definition of affordable, by allowing housebuilding in areas that were previously off limits, it would free up housing elsewhere. I posted them more to illustrate the point that new builds don't have to look like poo poo and there would be less green belt opposition if that were the case.
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Feb 8, 2017 12:14
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Pissflaps posted:Lol four day week. What a oval office. Counterpoint - he's trying to sell his new book and a nice juicy Corbyn story will help him do that. The idea that any MP works a four day week strikes me as not being credible, let alone being the leader of the opposition on top of that.
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Feb 8, 2017 14:27
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Guavanaut posted:One of the greatest tricks of liberalism is to split that leisure time such that some have too little and are overworked, and some have too much and too little income. We then call the latter group skivers and seek to prove how we're not one of them by demanding ever shittier working conditions. Is that liberalism or capitalism that's causing this though? If the former, would you mind explaining the causality a bit more? TinTower posted:I think Corbyn did quite well on the Surrey sweetheart deal at PMQs. I hope he broadens it to the general protection for Tory councils that came up earlier last year and was ignored by everyone. Prince John fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Feb 8, 2017 |
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Feb 8, 2017 14:31
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As the public perception of MP's working hours is a bit of a bugbear of mine, here's Ian Murray's "a week in the life of a backbench MP" diagram.  Obviously as you take on additional responsibilities, committees, or positions, then it only gets busier.
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Feb 8, 2017 16:08
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TheHoodedClaw posted:Yeah, gently caress off. On Friday I'm going to have to explain to people why the food bank can't give out the usual parcels, and why from next week we won't be able to give out any, because the last source of funding has dried up. I disagree with your political point, but just wanted to send you best wishes for Friday. I've been in a similar situation so can sort of relate. Pissflaps posted:No he needs to be humiliated at the next general election and have his idiot nose rubbed in the poo poo he's done on the carpet. I must say that the thought of your impotent rage when he resigns well in advance of the next election will be a small silver lining in this rather miserable cloud.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:28
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spectralent posted:Arguably Labour could've attempted to scout out tory rebels and force amendments, Don't take this as a defence of Labour's strategy, but there were significant numbers of these conversations going on behind the scenes. Ultimately, May's white paper and the parliamentary vote were enough for her to keep her rebels in line, and if they won't rebel, there's no chance of stopping the vote.
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Feb 9, 2017 00:35
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Heh, say what you like about the SNP, but they're very good at finding inventive ways to get media coverage of them in the chamber - here whistling 'Ode to Joy'. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38914765 Which led me on to this video, and the deputy speaker Lindsay Hoyle getting properly wound up: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38897588 I guess it's not been an easy week for the speakers.
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Feb 9, 2017 01:34
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Paracaidas posted:You're absolutely correct, a wide majority of the voters prefer Soft Brexit to Hard Brexit. I'd be willing to wager any sum you'd like, though, that a wide majority also favor Remain to Hard Brexit. Corbyn has sold the principles of his party out for the chance at converting the mythical Centrist Brexit into Labour voters. It's the epitome of the worst impulses of PLP but somehow it's okay this time because it's our guy. A large percentage of remain voters feel that the outcome of the referendum should be respected because ~~fair play~~. According to polls posted in here, hard brexit is preferred to remain.
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Feb 9, 2017 09:21
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MikeCrotch posted:Does anyone know how the Colombian government's decision to ignore the result of the FARC referendum and sign a peace treaty anyway went? There was substantive change as a result of the referendum no vote though - the Beeb says all but one of the original 57 points of agreement were amended in some way as part of the revised deal, with the five biggest changes: quote:The five main points which have been changed are: They may have got the senate to ratify the revised agreement instead of using another referendum, but the result wasn't ignored.
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Feb 9, 2017 23:51
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Gum posted:There is a pretty good argument to be made for climate change being one of the factors that lead to the Syrian civil war Yeah, I've always thought It was a bit harsh when Charlotte Church was widely ridiculed in the right wing press for mentioning this on Question Time.
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Feb 10, 2017 17:15
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dex_sda posted:Fair point. I doubt most people are as squeaky clean as Lineker appears to be, and those people will be less inclined to stand up to them. Not liking their overall vendetta, but it's a fair cop by the Daily Mail - I know someone who used to work for Ingenious Media and the whole thing is every bit as artificial as it sounds.
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Feb 11, 2017 14:00
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Steve2911 posted:How has he not already done them for libel? Which bit do you think is libellous? His defence in the Independence article was "I have always paid my taxes on time and in full" not "I've never invested in this tax avoidance scheme." The tone of the article when it gets on to its ranting about luvvies and sanctimonious behaviour is pretty bad, but it's opinion and I don't know whether that would be breaking the law.
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Feb 11, 2017 14:49
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Spangly A posted:I think it's quite endearing that even when jeremy uses a three line whip he clearly can't be arsed to enforce it Isn't the convention for members of the shadow cabinet to be booted out for breaking the whip, which has happened? He's only letting people who were outside the shadow cabinet off with the written warning, because they weren't part of the decision making process and therefore not bound by collective responsibility. It sounds logical to me, but I don't know whether this is something normal (i.e. only shadow cabinet members usually get the boot) being spun as a Corbyn weakness, or whether everyone with a position on the opposition benches usually gets booted for breaking the whip, regardless of whether they're in the shadow cabinet or not.
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Feb 12, 2017 00:18
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Edit: ^^ Sorry, my post wasn't completely clear. When I said 'position on the opposition benches' I meant whips and junior shadow ministers who don't attend the shadow cabinet, but still have some position beyond that of just a backbencher.JFairfax posted:Almost half of Labour's voters do not want the party to try and block Brexit, a new poll for The Independent has found. Quoting in full because I think the public's broader wish that Article 50 not be blocked is not always taken on board when criticising Corbyn on this issue. One other stat in the article is that only 39% of Labour voters want to block Article 50. So if only 39% of Labour voters want to block Article 50, and <36% of the public at large (less whatever percentage of "don't knows") want Labour to block it, it looks to me like he's chosen the best of a series of bad options in terms of electability. Edit: vv Thanks! I guess he'd struggle to refill the positions if he booted them all at this point anyway. Prince John fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 00:28
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Jedit posted:This, basically. As I recall from her bio, he wanted kids and she wanted a career so she dropped him. quote:Dodi and I met when I was 18. He was so charming and I was intrigued. He was very romantic, he immediately sent me flowers and pursued me. We dated for a while but then it became clear to me that it wasn’t my sort of lifestyle. It was a bit over the top with the bodyguards. I was very Western, I was making my own money and his father was very Egyptian. The women stayed in the kitchen when they would eat. Dodi was lovely, but I grew bored, I was young. We became friends and every time I went back to Europe I’d stay with him. Looks like Shatner also made a pass at her. Didn't realise she had struggled so much with drugs and alcohol though. 
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Feb 12, 2017 00:37
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Pochoclo posted:How terrible on a scale from 1 to Farage is Bercow? Because so far he's made a stand against Trump, said he voted Remain, and pisses off the Tories, that would make him a pretty okay PM on my book (if only because there's zero alternatives). But you know, he might have voted to kill puppies or something, you never know with politicians. I've read in a couple of places that he's built up a following of supportive backbenchers on both sides of the house by being quite scrupulous about allowing them to pose questions and raise their concerns about the day to day running of parliament. That undercurrent of support is one of the reasons they haven't been able to depose him yet.
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Feb 12, 2017 17:03
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