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Pennywise the Frown posted:edit: ^^^ Swear to god, along with what I said below, that was one one of the reasons I stopped then. I was just too loving depressed to drink. Although now I'm too depressed to stop. Meds might finally be kicking in though so I'll try stopping in a day or so again. For me the effect runs the opposite direction - in my heaviest years of drinking I shed weight to the point of being unhealthily underweight. Took a while after quitting to get up to a normal weight again afterward.
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Feb 8, 2017 03:56
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skeletonotherkin posted:In all honesty I've been cutting back on my drinking due to the fact that my shrink is recommending AA meetings. I'm actually wondering if i should stop seeing him since he seems bent on recommending this loving cult as a solution to my problems. He might not know any better - no telling how much experience he has in dealing with recovery issues. AA has been so successful in terms of capturing the public imagination as the go-to for recovery that it might have been largely unconscious on his part. I'd do some searches in your area and see if there are any other alternatives available locally.
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Feb 8, 2017 04:46
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nomadologique posted:been sober for about three months now, it is frickin great and i am really happy about it One thing that helped me was to post on a forum that didn't allow edits or deletion of posts once they were up. I'd post things I thought were brilliant and/or hilarious, then read them the next day and often be utterly dismayed and occasionally not even able to decipher what the hell I was typing about. The embarrassment of seeing this window onto my own behavior was a pretty strong motivator to help me clean up.
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Feb 8, 2017 05:23
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Cheap vodka became the primary staple of my diet for a couple years.
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Feb 13, 2017 01:22
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Pennywise the Frown posted:Ok, I had a medical procedure yesterday and ended up drinking anyway. You could do a Google search for SMART recovery in your area as a non-spiritual alternative, or you could look for Refuge Recovery if you don't mind a more Buddhist bent.
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Feb 15, 2017 01:15
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zh1 posted:does anyone have a platitude for that If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.
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Feb 15, 2017 05:01
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Pennywise the Frown posted:Day 1 down and am on day 2. I feel like poo poo and everything sucks. Hang in there. If you have to, force yourself to eat. Soup was handy for me. Letting yourself get dehydrated and malnourished is not going to help anything.
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Mar 2, 2017 02:53
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Pennywise the Frown posted:Oh that depression ain't moving on. Had it since I was around 13 or so and it's only gotten more severe over the years. I have a few other not-so-fun diagnoses as well. I've heard that alcohol is the single worst thing you can do when you are bipolar so uh...... yeah. Thank you though for your concern. I really need to do this. Alcohol really is bad if you are anywhere on the bipolar spectrum, and is really not good with depression, either. You're likely to see an improvement after being off the alcohol for a period of time, which I know is not all that reassuring in the short term. It really does get better, though. My own psychiatric history is a bit odd, but I can say that everything was made worse by my drinking. It sounds like you are doing a great job following up with your doctor and working to take care of yourself, and I just want to encourage you to try to keep some hope in mind, even if it is mostly intellectual.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:49
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Pennywise the Frown posted:Day 5. I think the physical withdrawals are over now. On to the mental withdrawals for the indefinite future. I used to be smart or something so I'm kind of looking forward to regaining some cognitive ability. But with that comes even more pessimism and terrible anger about existence, etc. Congrats on making it to day 5. Honestly I wouldn't be trying to think about the distant future (for me 6 months feels like forever), and just stick with the one day at a time for a while.
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Mar 5, 2017 07:41
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Pennywise the Frown posted:I bought a big rear end model rocket and a Ka-50 Russian helicopter (from the DCS game Good idea to try out things to do - see what serves you best.
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Mar 6, 2017 01:01
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). Going to force myself into a hobby to see if something clicks again.
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ROFL Octopus posted:I'd actually go one step further and not count the days period should your goal be lifelong sobriety. Decentralize the importance of alcohol. I personally agree with this, but I figure it is the kind of thing each person needs to figure out what works for them. I can say with certainty that I had quit drinking by Thanksgiving 9 years ago, but can't be more exact than that - I wasn't keeping track. That said, I wouldn't expect anyone to follow exactly the same methodology that I did.
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Mar 6, 2017 05:39
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The conversation above is all too common in recovery situations - somebody finds something that works for them and it becomes the way, the truth, and the light, and all other paths are false. People get defensive because any disagreement with their method of recovery is perceived as an attack on it, and by extension an attack on themselves. I'm not really going to weigh in one way or another on marijuana use, and just want to congratulate you on getting a full week out from drinking.
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Mar 8, 2017 02:06
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A misstep doesn't mean you haven't made progress. Don't lose sight of the good.
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Mar 11, 2017 07:53
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Pennywise the Frown posted:I hope so. I'm not happy. Try to give yourself some space to accept it. While it is reasonable to be disappointed, beating yourself up excessively is not productive, either. Of course neither would be taking it in a celebratory fashion. It's something that happened. Give yourself a little time. Hell, if you are dealing with emotional ramifications then writing them down might be a good idea. Journaling is very often a helpful exercise, and you might find it useful here.
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Mar 11, 2017 09:10
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Pennywise the Frown posted:The urge was going on and off last night. One thing that actually helped was playing DCS World (a combat flight sim) with some goons last night. But right when we stopped the urge rushed back and I got beer immediately. Staying occupied is certainly helpful but sometimes it's difficult when you're really depressed and can't even do things that you enjoy. This is quite the conundrum and something I need to figure out. Games are good - maybe try to find something single-player that lends itself to time-sinking? I have an embarrassing amount of hours in Fallout 4, for instance, although I know that isn't for everyone. Are you in a place you can go outside? It might sound facile, but sometimes just being outside and walking around, day or night, and looking at the sky were helpful for me. When I was really depressed my gaze rarely went above the horizon, and if I could make myself look up and be aware of my surroundings it helped. Your mileage might vary, of course.
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Mar 11, 2017 23:34
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I have some familiarity with bipolar, and was diagnosed with it myself for years (like I said earlier, my psychiatric history is weird). I certainly can sympathize with that sense of being your own worst enemy. Are your prescriber and therapist in good contact, or the same person? I don't know if it is of any help, but I just wanted to say that I remember feeling like I was in the midst of a raging whirlwind, and that things did eventually settle out.
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Mar 12, 2017 00:51
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Apropos of nothing, I took lithium capsules for years, and one time I missed a dose or two and thought "Hey, maybe if I snort some it will get my blood levels back up faster" and cracked a capsule open. I then proceeded to do a line of lithium carbonate, and immediately regretted it. A lot. Holy hell did that poo poo burn.
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Mar 12, 2017 01:09
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Nonviolent J posted:The oval office club Sounds like a mass-market chastity belt.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:55
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Pennywise the Frown posted:Is that in the Goon Doctor or TCC? It's in TCC. I've looked in on it in the past, but can't remember if I ever posted anything. It is fairly AA-centric if memory serves.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:09
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There is a heritable component to addiction - exactly how much of it is nature versus nurture is not entirely known. Genetics play some role, though. If you look at family history it is often a pretty clear generational line - I can easily trace alcohol back up my family tree on my dad's side.
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Mar 15, 2017 00:47
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Pennywise the Frown posted:I'm a loving master of the latter. Hell, I was a goddamn artist when it came to that. Working on mindfulness and reworking my internal dialogue helped improve matters. I realized that one of my tells for going really off the rails was when I started talking to myself in the second person. "You this" and "you that." Was a bit of an epiphany at the time. I still talk to myself a lot, though. Probably too much. The cats seem to appreciate it, at least.
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Mar 15, 2017 01:45
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500 good dogs posted:no one is saying alcoholism isn't real. there's just no bullshit allergy component to it... "God is dead." - Voltaire
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Mar 15, 2017 02:32
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500 good dogs posted:Wow that might be the first time sometime made that foolish of a mistake If there is any possible way that a mistake can be made, SpaceClown will find it.
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Mar 15, 2017 02:53
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Jim Barris posted:I don't think that's necessarily genetics though. I remember at a very young age walking in on my uncles or my mother doing drugs or even shooting up and I''m sure that played a large role in why I found it very easy to start using drugs in that particular manner. There is a family history of drug use present in my family, obviously, but that could well be from the normalization that occurs from observing drug use from a very young age being passed down through generations just as easily as a genetic influence. You could apply this same line of thinking easily to drinking. If your father was an alcoholic the habitual consumption to excess of alcohol was something you certainly witnessed from a very young age. Make me get all pedantic and poo poo up in here... "Twin, adoption, and family studies conclusively demonstrated that genetic factors account for 50 to 60 percent of the variance in risk for developing alcoholism." https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh40/64-75.pdf
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Mar 15, 2017 06:08
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500 good dogs posted:Yeah benzos probably make me more impulsive because IDGAF They actually have the opposite effect on me when I've taken them, as they calm the anxiety and such that has tended to impact my impulse control.
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Mar 16, 2017 01:52
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Pennywise the Frown posted:Bummer. I have the same problem. I can say that in my experience that has a good potential to improve. I couldn't count the number of nights in my life that I have gone to bed and sincerely hoped I wouldn't wake up in the morning. Now I just hate mornings, but am happy that I didn't die in my sleep. 
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Mar 16, 2017 02:49
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Pennywise the Frown posted:It would be quite the change where I wouldn't accept death as like a, "eh, sure, I'm ready, whatever". Maybe 6 months from now I might feel different but the odds are low considering my past. Just speaking for myself, I find it is entirely possible to live a decent life while still having an odd relationship with my own mortality. You know that cold thrill of adrenaline you get when you have a near miss at freeway speeds? When you're almost hit by a car as a pedestrian? Yeah, I don't get that. I first realized I had lost that reaction around 2005 or so, and now mostly note it with academic interest. I had surgery recently and I was mostly concerned about whether I would be conscious while intubated - the idea I could just plain die under general anesthetic merited a "meh, whatever" response from me. It's not that I still feel some urge to rush toward the sweet embrace of death, and more that I've come to better terms with myself. Getting a healthier relationship with yourself doesn't necessarily mean you have to be Stepford-levels of happy all the time.
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Mar 16, 2017 05:06
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TheSpamalope posted:Lol yeah become numb that'sa good answer. Just another ghost I'm actually surprisingly well-adjusted, oddly enough.
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Mar 16, 2017 05:23
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Hope you sleep well. I think it's a perfectly good idea to give yourself credit for the success you've had and not obsess over a slip. Dichotomous all-or-nothing thinking is a cognitive error, in any case. You're doing well, Pennywise.
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Mar 17, 2017 06:31
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Pennywise the Frown posted:I guess I can't argue that. We both had the same life growing up due to the closeness of our moms. Don't hesitate to seek help if you feel like it is getting too intense. It's understandable that you would see some things worsen for a while - it takes a bit for your neurotransmitter levels to stabilize after you remove a stimulus which has been artificially altering their levels for a while. That's true of any pretty much any addiction, with or without bipolar as a complicating factor. I know it can be of little comfort in the moment, but the more time you put between yourself and the substance (or whatever addiction) the more things level out.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:20
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Better Fred Than Dead posted:Spirituality isn't so much about signing up for dogmatic Christian God but acknowledging the lack of control you actually can exercise in your life. Drunks in particular will sit and rage about the control they perceive they have when you really have even less than you'd think. 12-step approaches are fine for some people, and not fine for others. Being proselytic about it isn't really helping anyone.
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Mar 22, 2017 04:09
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Better Fred Than Dead posted:I guess I don't subscribe to a specific religion or anything so I have a difficult time understanding the precise issue and I've always been a pretty staunch atheist. I don't think anybody has been arguing against the value of support groups in general, just that prescribing one particular flavor (e.g., AA) over another is not paying due diligence to the needs of the person being addressed. AA and related 12-step programs are not for me, for instance, but that doesn't mean I think nobody should use them. I'm fond of Refuge Recovery, but I'm not under the delusion that it would be a good fit for everyone. Not only are people different, but each person's addiction is different. For instance, you describe having denial be a significant part of your process, whereas for me denial was essentially absent - this leads to very different expressions of what may be otherwise similar addictions. Trying to advocate too much for a single path to recovery inevitably means a significant number of people are going to fall off it.
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Mar 22, 2017 22:46
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Sorry you've been having a difficult time. I can't remember if it was brought up earlier in the thread or not, but have you tried journaling? Keeping a diary of sorts can be really helpful, and might also be useful in figuring out some of the behavioral patterns you are engaging in. Being able to read back my thoughts from days or weeks previous was immensely valuable to me at a couple points in my life. I'd recommend keeping it somewhere where you know it is private, and can write without editing yourself.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:51
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RFC2324 posted:I think my biggest problem with quitting smoking is actually drinking. My wife loves going to the bar once or twice a week to the point that she is horrified if i try to get out of it. She is also the major force behind me quitting smoking (i know i should for my health, and am pretty tired of doing it after 22+ years) but also probably the biggest obstacle. I think of we stopped drinking for a few months i could quit petty easily. I also set a condition on her of quitting chewing her nails so she can be giving up a bad habit with me, but she refuses, and since i gave myself that escape i can fail at quitting with no guilt. As long as the drinking itself isn't a problem, regarding the smoking you could try a harm reduction approach. I smoked cigarettes for around 24 years, and have some weird genetic predisposition to nicotine addiction. I also have a tendency to lung infections, so smoking was a really terrible idea. Switching to other sources of nicotine saved my lungs, kept me functional, and actually is less expensive than smoking at this point. If it is mostly the nicotine that you need (more than the behavioral part of smoking) then stuff like snus might let you quit wrecking your lungs while still engaging in the stuff you like to do. Nicotine gum can be useful for this, too, but your options for flavors are a lot more limited. I currently use more Zyn than anything else, but I'm not sure how available it is outside the West Coast. Camel snus should be available if nothing else, and I've found it to be reasonable as a source of nicotine.
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Mar 25, 2017 23:59
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RFC2324 posted:It's behavioral afaik. I've gone a couple months with no cigs in the past, but always end up with a mouth full of butt Yeah, that's harder to tackle, oddly enough. For me it is more like a purely medical matter - I maintain a given nicotine level and I'm fine. The behavioral part of it I didn't really care about.
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Mar 26, 2017 00:39
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SpaceClown posted:Why not vape? I'm usually not a proponent of robococks, but this is a case where it might actually make sense. Just try to find one that uses less antifreeze and other goop. Keep in mind that saying an ingredient is "food grade" is all fine and good, but doesn't mean mean it is safe to use as an inhalant.
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Mar 26, 2017 00:50
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Sweeping generalizations and semantic gamesmanship worthy of religious debate is certainly the best approach to take when addressing a complicated and multifaceted issue like addiction.
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Mar 28, 2017 22:19
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Jim Barris posted:Yeah, you're lucky then. Opiates really grabbed me, I cannot control my use of them in the slightest. It's not even like I'm cured or something I actually have to be really careful and mindful of it all the time. What I've come to understand is that there is a certain type of person that once they start they have to do it till they're destroyed enough to stop or they die. Alcohol or heroin it's much the same though heroin will put you in a grave a lot quicker for various reasons. Still, it could of easily been alcohol that did it to me. Which is why I do not drink. Having been addicted to both at different times, I would say that in my experience the nature of the two addictions was different. Both were going to leave me dead or in jail one way or the other, though.
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Jun 1, 2017 18:28
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Pennywise the Frown posted:I am still here, still alive. I didn't drink about 25 days straight before having a lapse. Last week I drank a few times and I just drank last night. I'm learning that this isn't fun in the least bit anymore. Those 25 days were extremely productive. I got poo poo done around the house, my yard, I started BJJ again. I have an app called eMoods to monitor a few different metrics for bipolar disorder and printing the graph is pretty eye opening. Depression, anxiety, irritability, etc. all trending downwards. Congrats, Pennywise - this sounds like good work.
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Jun 1, 2017 22:47
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turn off the TV posted:Yeah, alcohol really helps with the whole "my brain is loving itself up and there's not much I can do about it" thing. We're opposites on that - if I took an SSRI it would almost certainly make me want to drink. I tried Paxil again a few years ago and it only took about a week for it to put me into a dysphoric hypomania.
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Jun 1, 2017 23:51
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