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Hakkesshu posted:One leads to the other More than his crippling mental illnesses and world class PTSD?
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Jul 25, 2019 13:31
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Hakkesshu posted:Why would they be mutually exclusive Last time i checked, toxic masculinity isn't a mental illness.
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Jul 25, 2019 13:38
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You can be toxically masculine and a weapons grade mysogynist without having a single mental illness, being an arsehole isn't a diagnosis
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Jul 25, 2019 13:48
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Hakkesshu posted:I have no idea what your point is, so he can't be any of these things because he's mentally ill? No, but you seem to be glazing over the fact that he's so mentally ill and murderous , it beggars belief. But him being toxically masculine is what sticks out as something to hang your hat on.
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Jul 25, 2019 13:54
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Hakkesshu posted:When the loving gently caress did I say his mental illness wasn't a part of it, I'm talking about one aspect of the character here "It's very easy to read this whole show as a takedown of toxic masculinity; he feels like he deserves everything because ?? he was traumatized as a child?"
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Jul 25, 2019 13:58
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Hakkesshu posted:He feels that way because he is mentally ill, you dunce, not sure why i have to spell out that a character's actions are related to his mental illness in this, a show about mental illness. Don't back up your truck now. Your question marks imply you are challenging this as an unjustifiable reason for his supposed toxic masculinity. I challenged you because he wasn't like that with Syd until his brain snapped and only for a moment and even then it's more about him having a power fetish in general over a power fetish over her. All the other stuff mentioned has happened since then, and other than sexy male and female hippys with daddy issues, there really isn't much evidence of him being anything other then a very ill dude with a god complex and epic magic powers. We on the same page?
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Jul 25, 2019 14:12
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Hakkesshu posted:The show overtly implied this season that his love of Syd was driven by his rather ravenous desire to be loved by a woman from the very moment they first saw one another. By anyone, Syd just happened to be A: A women and B: interested in him He was never anything than friendly non toxic aside from the obvious toxic nature of their drug and mental illnesses relationship with Lenny.
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Jul 25, 2019 14:18
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Hakkesshu posted:... yes? Syd was placed in his way to gain his trust and she fell in love with him. I'm not sure what your point is anymore, you fancy swinging your bat?
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Jul 25, 2019 14:24
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Hakkesshu posted:I still don't know what your point is. That the whole show is about a takedown of toxic masculine is a line you drew through a map and are convinced it's a road. I don't understand how you get there without tripping over more reasonable theories. Hakkesshu posted:It's very easy to read this whole show as a takedown of toxic masculinity; he feels like he deserves everything because ?? he was traumatized as a child? I know it's a weird shadow demon but a lot of people have been tortured, abused, and oppressed throughout their whole lives and their response to that is not to make everything in the world about you. But at the same time it's also tragic, because of course you can understand why David is the way he is, there is just no one left who can contain him or help him - and yet, all his actions were made for completely selfish, thoughtless reasons that show a complete lack of empathy for anyone around him, because he is just that afraid of being unloved.
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Jul 25, 2019 14:41
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Hakkesshu posted:Again, it is not JUST that, and I don't think it cancels out other themes and ideas like you seem to be continually implying. the whole show... this is what i'm stuck on. You over reached to make a point. You said it is absolutely a reason him and Syd went bye bye. You are being very surefooted about a theory, i'm giving you a page to roll back your hyperbole and you are doubling down. I've never once said it isn't what you are saying, i'm just pushing you to give it some actual thought.
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Jul 25, 2019 14:55
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i'm having a conversation with someone who is obviously intelligent, i'd like to explore this without it getting political or childish. We seem to be doing ok so far.
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Jul 25, 2019 15:04
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Hakkesshu posted:This whole argument started because you evidently took my reading as erasing or diminishing the effects his mental illness had on his actions, which I have now said multiple times was not what I meant, so I have no idea what else you want me to say. Fair enough, i'll let it go. Good stuff though.
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Jul 25, 2019 15:18
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Supercar Gautier posted:There's a notable distinction between the concepts of deserving love in general, being worthy of love, and deserving love in particular. But as a person who has not real experienced love at all, how would you know the difference.
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Jul 26, 2019 05:23
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Shageletic posted:I don't want to restart that argument last page but I think its important to underline that its not his mental illness that is causing David's current actions, its his short comings in regards to empathy and consequence coupled with the ability to act without any consequences (at least to himself). But those are trademark symptoms of various and some mental illnesses, including sociopathy and psycopathy. Even some garden variety autistic goons have reduced empathy.
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Jul 26, 2019 05:43
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Shageletic posted:But are we sure that he is sociopathic? Also mental illness does not of course mean a person is gonna commit something awful. Its Davids character that is the problem here and not his illness. I never said he was, i said it's a symptom of various, including that. Empathy is something you can lose from depression or never have at all. But David doesn't just have stock standard BPD, he literally collects multiple personalities all bouncing ideas off himself. He is Legion so, you can't pin everything going wrong with him on any particular thing. He's bascially cloud storage for hosed up thoughts and feelings.
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Jul 26, 2019 07:15
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Shageletic posted:He has to have some sort of agency. It robs the story if a character isn't able to make any choices in it. And his choices are really, really bad. He's making choices, he's choosing to be a selfish murderer. But there is a root cause that needs to be understood, that's how people are treated. Not trying to diagnose him, but this is what we are getting at. You can be Hannibal Lecter and people still want to shrink your head. Also, he's about 10,000 leagues ahead of your run of the mill headcase with a knife yelling about the government.
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Jul 27, 2019 01:32
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